Yin vs. Yang Yoga?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#8

Is the question about that which is called Yin or is the question about the various natures of asanas, including but not limited to Yin?

If you are looking into the evolution of Yin Yoga the brand/style/expression then you can start by reading about Paulie Zink. I believe Paul Grilley studied with him for less than a year and then taught Sara Powers and so on, and so on…

The Yin approach to posture is wonderful when it includes alignment. When alignment is absent and a student remains in a posture over time (lacking the aforementioned alignment) the practice can be physiologically relaxing (just as a nap is) but detrimental to connective tissue.

If you are asking about the nature of postures, they have them just as each person has them. You can determine the nature of the pose in two basic ways; one you can study on an ongoing basis with someone very well-steeped or you can cultivate your own level of self-awareness so that you can discern the residue of the pose in your living.

#9

It appears there is only one thing that rules everywhere. Its our language that makes them see different.

#10

Is Yin yoga just and another name for “restorative yoga”?

#11

The approach with Chinese medicine seems very interesting, as Yoga can be combined harmoniously with Ayurveda as it has been traditionally, allopathic medecine or other alternative therapeutic approaches.

For the rest, it sounds to me a lot like marketing or a rediscovering of the wheel a bit like “Power” Yoga which shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of classical yoga. It is like playing music derived from classical western music but changing the names of the classical notes, playing only on minor keys and with limited tempos. This comes probably from ashtanga vinyasa yoga which is a style of yoga, a specific application of yoga (designed at the origin for young, healthy male teenagers devoted to regular practice) and not a specific yoga by itself. To make a whole system out of a specific style is a restriction of the potentiality of Yoga. Moreover classifying in yin or yang poses does not make sense in classical yoga which is on this level coherent and complete by itself if properly taught. Talking about aggressive poses per se neither. It is obvious that asanas can be adapted, by the way there is no real need of new specific names for adaptations of classical poses. An asana done with a same breath ratio can have yin or yang effects according to the person. It is obvious.

Take sarvangasana with a breath ratio 10/5/10/5 x20, it can be either “yin” or “yang” according to the person though presented often as lunar compared to sirshasana.

To use words already in the yogic tradition, one can practise yoga on a lunar mode or solar mode. If we take terminology inspired from Ayurveda one can practice on langhana, samana, bhrimana modes while referring to the effect on the heart beat.

Philippe

#12

I have thought about going to a Yin Yoga class more than once, since there is one close to where I live and I like what I read about it… but there are two things I need to say.

  1. There is no Chinese Yoga no matter what anyone tells you. There was never any yoga that was or is indigenous to China and I have come across a few in Yin Yang Yoga and (of course) Taoist Yoga that make such claims. Which leads me to; there is no Taoist yoga that came from Taoists in China.

  2. Paulie Zink, although talented and incredibly flexible there are some serious issues in the Chinese Martial arts world that have made him not so popular and one of those people he became not so popular with was his sifu (teacher)

Ok that was 3 things…

#13

@ CityMonk
Restoratives are Yin (in nature) but they are not the only thing yin, obviously. So “yin” and “restorative” could be used together but not as synonyms. Though how people use words is an entirely different matter.

@Yulaw
He would not be the first student unpopular with his teacher :slight_smile:

#14

[QUOTE=Philippe*;46994]For the rest, it sounds to me a lot like marketing or a rediscovering of the wheel a bit like “Power” Yoga which shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of classical yoga.[/QUOTE]

I kind of feel the same way about this. Can’t we just stick to yoga, instead of using these ‘cross-platform’ terms? Isn’t there a nice Sanskrit name for it?

#15

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;47061]@Yulaw
He would not be the first student unpopular with his teacher :-)[/QUOTE]

Very true… but if you can believe the rumor, this is more like unpopular with extreme prejudice that may or may not involve death threats.

#16

City Monk. The studio I attend has both yin and restorative classes. The restorative classes tend to be more supine relaxation and deep tissue with a meditation at the end. The yen tends to be more sitting and forward bends held on bolsters and inversions. Hope this helps. :roll:

#17

Yin and Yang - One cannot exist without the other.

Yin can and should be thought of as a way to prepare you for a yang practice. It is extremely beneficial for students who struggle with flexibility.

While I think one should have an understanding of “classical yoga” and it’s roots, yoga has evolved and has become more accessible to the masses. One cannot assume if someone practices 'Power Yoga" they have no understanding/knowledge. Power yoga is an offshoot of Ashtanga without the set sequences. Teacher/practitioner can be more creative in sequencing.

Yin addresses the discomfort that many have when sitting for long periods of meditation. Its usual concentration of below the hips postures aid in gaining the flexibility needed to accomplish this. A yang type practice targets more superficial muscles, which for many is fine. But there are students who are in need of releasing deeper connective tissues which in turn makes the yang practice more effective. Yin is very appropriate for these students.

The original premise of the physical aspect of yoga is to prepare you for meditation. Yin is in perfect alignment (pardon the pun!) with this.

If it helps the student on the path it shouldn’t matter. Labels shouldn’t matter.

My 2 cents!

#18

Greetings Yulaw,

[QUOTE=Yulaw;47060]

  1. There is no Chinese Yoga no matter what anyone tells you. There was never any yoga that was or is indigenous to China and I have come across a few in Yin Yang Yoga and (of course) Taoist Yoga that make such claims. Which leads me to; there is no Taoist yoga that came from Taoists in China.
    [/QUOTE]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, which is…just another opinion. Not that others may not share it, but when you assert some sort of authoritative posture, as in “no matter what anyone tells you” then I’d like to see you back up your assertions. Wikipedia is not error-free, but it seems very reliable in many areas, and so far, it still has an article about Taoist Yoga (I don’t have enough posts to embed the URL here - just search “Taoist Yoga” there) which contains supportive references, which your comment lacks.

Furthermore, other teachings from India flowed into China and evolved there and co-mingled with teachings already extant there, Buddhism, for example. Why couldn’t this have occurred with yoga?

This doesn’t necessarily undermine your point that what is being taught as “Yin Yoga” is not, as you appear to suggest, some sort of non-Chinese invention. But your statement, as I interpret it through my own reality tunnel, could use some clarification.

Your other point about (Zink’s) reputation based on “rumors” raises concerns about how you may have reached your other conclusions. Humans, even the greatest, most inspirational ones, can be found (by at least one person or another) to have flaws and failings. I don’t know much about Paulie Zink (less than you seem to, obviously), but I think many of us might know of a few teachers who remain inspirational and helpful, despite any scandals that might have cropped up around them–Osho, Chogyam Trungpa, Yogi Bhajan, and many, many others.

But again, you might have the makings of some sort of “valid point” - but I don’t think you make it well by supporting it with rumor and innuendo.

I would enjoy hearing more from you on this topic, particularly some supporting data for point #1.

Thank you, Yulaw.

Respectfully…

Prem

#19

[QUOTE=Xochipilli2012;47201]Greetings Yulaw,

Thank you for sharing your opinion, which is…just another opinion. Not that others may not share it, but when you assert some sort of authoritative posture, as in “no matter what anyone tells you” then I’d like to see you back up your assertions. Wikipedia is not error-free, but it seems very reliable in many areas, and so far, it still has an article about Taoist Yoga (I don’t have enough posts to embed the URL here - just search “Taoist Yoga” there) which contains supportive references, which your comment lacks.

Furthermore, other teachings from India flowed into China and evolved there and co-mingled with teachings already extant there, Buddhism, for example. Why couldn’t this have occurred with yoga?

This doesn’t necessarily undermine your point that what is being taught as “Yin Yoga” is not, as you appear to suggest, some sort of non-Chinese invention. But your statement, as I interpret it through my own reality tunnel, could use some clarification.

Your other point about (Zink’s) reputation based on “rumors” raises concerns about how you may have reached your other conclusions. Humans, even the greatest, most inspirational ones, can be found (by at least one person or another) to have flaws and failings. I don’t know much about Paulie Zink (less than you seem to, obviously), but I think many of us might know of a few teachers who remain inspirational and helpful, despite any scandals that might have cropped up around them–Osho, Chogyam Trungpa, Yogi Bhajan, and many, many others.

But again, you might have the makings of some sort of “valid point” - but I don’t think you make it well by supporting it with rumor and innuendo.

I would enjoy hearing more from you on this topic, particularly some supporting data for point #1.

Thank you, Yulaw.

Respectfully…

Prem[/QUOTE]

You should never assume… you know what they say

um… not opinion… Not from Wikipedia… it is fact…sorry to burst you bubble

There was no Taoist yoga there was no yoga that was Chinese.

There was Qigong, there was daoyin which is…well… Qigong.

Want proof, contact Wudang or any of the monks that are around… there was never any Taoist Yoga…sorry about that. Look to legitamate historical sources.

As to Paulie Zink… I already said he was talented but there is a problem between him as his Sifu…sorry about that too.

You want to go with the sales pitch…goes for it…have fun… I am not going to waste anymore time trying to change your mind. Look to legitimate sources of Chinese history and then get back to me

#20

There is no bubble to burst.

But thank you for your response.

It speaks for itself.

Volumes.

#21

I recently watched a video of Paul Grilley explaining the theory of yin yoga. It’s been stated here before but for what it’s worth, yin yoga is about working the connective tissue. When trying to work connective tissue, using the same techniques that you use to work muscle tissue can be dangerous. That’s why yin yoga tends to hold poses longer and employ gentle stretching.

#22

When I first started yoga , Yin yoga was never mentioned it seemed to appear around the 90s , promoted through Paul Grilley , Sarah powers , or at least that is where I came across it ,Ive never fully understood it , In that I didnt understand what was new or different from what I had already come across which people called yoga , Is it really from china ?
I have Paul Grilley video but again thought it was fine but nothing that I hadnt heard before , except this was yin ? I have seen film of paulie zink , it looked a bit mad to me ,he seemed to be lacking kneecaps , certainly very flexible. , I have even met teachers who offer yin yoga but still im not getting something ,still confused.
I have never been to a yin class , but there are none where I am.
I have no bubbles or axes !

#23

Some say the Yin is the oldest form of Hatha yoga. How’s that to stir the pot!

Yulaw,
I am curious as to the "no chinese yoga:. Can you explain? What I’ve read is that, of course Yin is chinese. That we know. Yin is opposite of yang. Yin is stretching deeper connective tissues. Yang is stretching more superficial. Isn’t Taoist or chinese yoga Yin in nature? And could you not say that Qi Gong is the modern Day version? I’m asking because I know very little of the history, especially Chinese. I know you have Chinese relatives if I’m not mistaken. It would help if you could clarify this! Many thanks!

#24

out of interest Who are these some that claim yin to be the oldest form of hatha yoga ?

#25

@Charliedharma

You changed your Avatar!

I honestly have few references for what I stated.

But to my point, in the Yoga Sutras, asan is only mentioned two times. It states, that asan should be sthira (steady) and Sukham (comfortable). Both are very much yin. Many in the Yin community believe that description of asan in the sutras is yin in nature. Thus making it the oldest of the Hatha yogas. I believe there is a yin website out there and perhaps it can clarify it better. Reality is we don’t have much to go on outside of carvings of people in seated meditation positions and don’t know how they prepared themselves for this. Asan and description came later. So, ???

Just thought I’d put out some food for thought with my comment. Curious to hear others chime in with what they know.

#26

I agree of course that Asana should be comfortable and steady, how could I not , and of course Asana is little mentioned in the yoga sutras is a matter of record, I think that peoples interpretation of Sthira and sukham can vary wildly , I love hanging around on Bolsters , but I also find great steadiness of mind body spirit when for example a brave teacher takes me to those intense on the edge places where a deep transformation takes place , a breaking and reforging of deep negative patterns on all layers /sheaths ,into the fire ,this of course could be with words as much as asking me to perform poses for longer than the egomind thought even possible , the body was just waiting and yearning, and then I sit in asana and the steadiness and comfort is there . My first years of meditation I was probably more concerned with the pain in my body than the machinations of mind /ego , it wasnt until I had put in the hard yards to use American parlance, no doubt sometimes I was going up blind alleys with the hard yards and I had to find teachers who reminded me that yoga was about letting go. At its most unhelpful yin is used as an excuse to be lazy and not ignite the fires of yoga and at its worst a yang practice appeals to the grasping overworking gymnastic musclehead “a” type , all on the outside types. I once heard a senior teacher in a respected school of yoga say that yoga was all on the outside and nothing to do with the inside , I wondered what they had been doing for thirty years , it was quite sad really but we all have our dharma. As you have mentioned ying cant be there without yang , and im not sure that bringing in ying and yang into the terminology has been helpful for yoga , do we not have enough sanskrit words that give us enough to go with ? Having said that yoga is living and should not become fixed as we are evolving or devolving depending on your viewpoint, and our cultural conditioning might find the word yin helpful , I have not come across anyone saying that they teach yang yoga , im sure somebody out here is , or will see a marketing ploy .
My threepence as we used to say when I was a lad . Om shanti

#27

@Charliedharma,

Agree with your above.

All we do in this day and age is label and brand. Regardless of how and why yin started, it can be a useful and effective “accompaniment” to a regular yoga practice. My belief if those who only do a yin style practice miss out on so much. But it can definitely augment one’s practice thereby making it more comfortable and enjoyable. Giving them freedom from deep pockets of tension allowing eventually balance. The goal is a noble one. With that I rest my case!

Is that you or your alter ego?