Yoga and Catholicism

Spirituality Religion
#1

Are there any other Catholics on this site?

I have been doing a yoga practice and have been benefiting greatly by it.

Or am I not really doing yoga, but just an asana practice?

It doesn’t really matter to me what it is called. I love doing the asanas, and have made good improvemnts in my health, flexibilty, and outlook.

I have looked at Patanjali’s eight limbs, and can see that any practicing Catholic has most of that covered, except for the asanas and pranayama, so a Catholic, and I would think anyone who practices their faith already is doing much yoga, are they not?

I am a little confused by those who insist that yoga is not a religion, has no creed, has no diety, but then go on to talk about God, karma, reincarnation, etc.

I can embrace much of yoga, but must reject reincarnation, and monism.

But I am also unclear as to what yoga is, since there seem to be so many varieties and so many interpretations.

#2

There are not many interpretations of Yoga. It is a well accepted fact that Yoga is the practice of self-realization whereby one reconnects to the divine self within.

The notions of karma and reincarnation are very much tied into Yoga. The soul’s purpose is self-realization and in order to accomplish this it must exhaust all its karmas stored within its mind and completely clear the mind of all activity, if it fails to accomplish this in one body, then it reincarnates into another body.

Asanas by themselves are not Yoga, but rather are a limb of Yoga. The word means “easy” and it basically refers to a posture which is easy to hold and maintain so that one can meditate.

There is a physical form of Yoga known as Hatha Yoga which uses a combination of asanas and pranayama and mantra praces in order to awaken the Kundalini energy at the base of the spine.

Catholicism has nothing to do with Yoga. There is no teachings of asanas, pranayama and dharana anywhere in the bible.

#3

I am confused.

Many Hindus say yoga is a discipline and/or a philosophy and all are welcome. Many say it can be plugged into any religion and benefit any religion.

I have been told that some yoga masters deny karma, reincarnation, and monism. I have also been told that yoga predates Hinduism.

But I don’t claim to know.

Regardless, I am happy to do just the physical part, and it makes no difference to me if it means I am not really doing “yoga.”

The yamas and niyamas are more than covered in Catholicsm, and we have our own forms of meditation and prayer, besides the Holy Mass, which brings us into the most intimate union with God.

There is nothing lacking there, from our perspective.

But the physical part of yoga that I’ve chosen to do is very beneficial, and I am grateful to God and to the culture which has given it to us.

#4

Asanas by themselves are not Yoga, but rather are a limb of Yoga. The word means “easy” and it basically refers to a posture which is easy to hold and maintain so that one can meditate.

There is a physical form of Yoga known as Hatha Yoga which uses a combination of asanas and pranayama and mantra praces in order to awaken the Kundalini energy at the base of the spine.

I like doing a headstand, but it does not seem “easy” to hold long enough to meditate. In fact, most of the poses are challenging and not easy to hold for a long time, so I don’t understand that.

Must someone who practices Yoga accept the idea of “Kundalini energy”? I am skeptical about that. Is there scientific proof of it?

#5

See the thread “Yoga is Hinduism” There is no doubt about it that Yoga is unequivocally a Hindu practice and philosophy which originated within Hinduism. It was developed by the sage scientists of India in order to understand the nature of the Self and how one can attain direct experience of that Self in a controlled and scientific way. Thus they developed the techniques of Yoga and meditation. It is also the ancient Indian science of body, mind and soul management and development.

Sure there are shades of the basic elements of Yoga in all religions, but no religion or culture other than Hinduism has actually developed it to the level of a science. The Indian spiritual scientists have been very meticulous in their investigations into the body, mind and soul and documenting their research. They have carefully mapped out the various states of mind, the relationships between the body and mind, the causes of suffering and joy, the intricate energy systems and networks in our body and from that devised the many techniques of Yoga.

The principle behind Yoga is simply to do the practice and get the result. For this you do not have begin with any beliefs, although a basic understanding of the theory and history is advisable. Catholicism, provided it is practiced with single minded devotion by the adherant is what we Hindus calls “Bhakti Yoga” and it is said to achieve the same effect as meditation. However, Bhakti is considered an inferior vehicle for lesser developed souls who require devotional symbols to fix their mind. The path of knowledge and meditation is considered superior.

The Kundalini energy is what modern scientists today call the zero point energy field, it is an infinite energy that permeates all of time and space. It can be tapped from any point in space. It is estimated that the energy within the space of a single cup is enough to boil all the oceans in the world. In Yoga this energy is tapped through the practices, especially of Pranayama, which causes more of this energy from this energy field to flow into our body. It begins at the base of our spine and travels upwards. This is a real physiological phenomenon which has been documented by scientists and been aptly called, “The Kundalini syndrome” The common symptoms of Kundalini energy activation are the vivid sensations of a hot electric current passing up your spine.

You do not have to worry about Kundalini though. The Kundalini will rise by itself based on how developed you are in your practice. Finally, you asked about the headstands. The various asanas are designed to increase the flexibility of your body and to improve the flow of energy in your body. As a result of which you will be able to enter into meditation more easily. Normally, meditation is impeded by the improper flow of energy in the body and this also reflects in our breathing patterns, through the practices of asana and pranayama this is remedied.

There are some asanas which are very specifically designed for meditation such as the full lotus which is incredibly effective in locking the body down so you can bring your awareness into your mind. Unfortunately, the full lotus is also one of the hardest asanas to do and requires great flexibility.

#6

See the thread “Yoga is Hinduism” There is no doubt about it that Yoga is unequivocally a Hindu practice and philosophy which originated within Hinduism. It was developed by the sage scientists of India in order to understand the nature of the Self and how one can attain direct experience of that Self in a controlled and scientific way. Thus they developed the techniques of Yoga and meditation. It is also the ancient Indian science of body, mind and soul management and development.

Let’s say you’re right.

Is there anything wrong with someone using just a part of Yoga?

Does the person who has an asana practice while practicing another religion and having no intention of doing any of the other yoga practices do a disservice to Hinduisim and Yoga? Or is he honoring Hinduism and Yoga by accepting what he can?

I would feel honored as a Catholic if a Hindu or a Jew adopted a Catholic prayer, even if he had no intention of becoming a Catholic, and even if he didn’t entirely believe the prayer. I wouldn’t be offended if he called himself a Catholic because of it, but it would not be true, and he would be in error to do so.

So I can also understand if it could be an error for me to say I practice Yoga, if I truly do not, by doing just the asanas and by rejecting Hinduism as my religion.

#7

I am always adopting practices and symbols from other religions and traditions. I love the Lord prayers for example and occasionally I sing gospel. You see symbols do not really matter to a Hindu. A Hindu can be equally at home with worshipping an idol of Ganesha or worshipping Jesus or Allah. Just as they can be equally at home with no worship at all and just meditating on their breath, mantra or silence.

What makes Hinduism, Hinduism is not the symbols, but the philosophy. That is that there is a higher spiritual reality, a substratum from which all of creation has emanated and we must reconnect and fully integrate with this spiritual reality. The word Yoga itself very aptly sums up Hinduism: self-realization. In order to achieive this we must live according to the principles of dharma so that we flow back towards the source with all our actions, thoughts and speech. Thus the ideal in Hinduism is to become completely spiritually transformed.

You are absolutely welcome to do Yoga. However, I do have to warn you, because Yoga is a science, you will eventually confirm for yourself all of its predications. These are going to be at odds with your faith. Such as, how will you take it when you start recalling past life memories? Will this make you lose faith in your religion?

#8

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;39094]I am always adopting practices and symbols from other religions and traditions. I love the Lord prayers for example and occasionally I sing gospel. You see symbols do not really matter to a Hindu. A Hindu can be equally at home with worshipping an idol of Ganesha or worshipping Jesus or Allah. Just as they can be equally at home with no worship at all and just meditating on their breath, mantra or silence.

What makes Hinduism, Hinduism is not the symbols, but the philosophy. That is that there is a higher spiritual reality, a substratum from which all of creation has emanated and we must reconnect and fully integrate with this spiritual reality. The word Yoga itself very aptly sums up Hinduism: self-realization. In order to achieive this we must live according to the principles of dharma so that we flow back towards the source with all our actions, thoughts and speech. Thus the ideal in Hinduism is to become completely spiritually transformed.

You are absolutely welcome to do Yoga. However, I do have to warn you, because Yoga is a science, you will eventually confirm for yourself all of its predications. These are going to be at odds with your faith. Such as, how will you take it when you start recalling past life memories? Will this make you lose faith in your religion?[/QUOTE]

The last sentence is a very interesting one…I was a Christian until the images I saw using the Ajna Chakra were most definately not Christian and in fact Hindu/Buddhist. I had ben practising with the Ajna Chakra for many years, as a Christian but got a shock when I was presented with non christian images etc etc.
However, when I had a particular problem with third eye open and accidently brought thru a being from another dimension, it was the Lords Prayer out loud that I repeated at it and that was what dispersed it.

#9

I would like to add that it could have been another prayer and that it wasn’t the prayer itself that worked.

#10

I know many Catholics practising seriously Yoga. My Yoga teacher has even priests as students though they are usually very discrete about it, they take individual courses. I think that there are Orthodox and Catholic streams which might be more compatible than protestant ones which are more Paulinian. I do not know if every die-hard Catholic would call them “true Catholics”. It is clear that Yoga has its roots in paganism after all, so fundamentalists are coherent when they reject it, though they are wrong IMO.

Without entering into details, I have been in “another life”, so to speak, being raised a die-hard Catholic, but I got over that since then. Conventional religions are incompatible with my mindset.

Philippe

#11

Thomas, as a Catholic, do you believe that women are not fit to lead spiritual communities? Do you believe that ordaining a woman is as grave of a sin as molesting a child and the punishments should be equal? Do you believe that the bread and wine literally become the body and blood, with the exact chemical makeup as Christ’s body and blood? Do you approve or disapprove of the Church’s actions in regards to priests that molested children?

However you feel about any of those concepts is just fine, but these are the concepts that are most commonly rejected by many faithful and practicing Catholics. The point is that one can be a faithful and active Catholic, yet still disagree with some of the doctrines or actions of the Catholic Church.

I have studied quite a few books on yoga and they all seem to say pretty clearly that Yoga was developed from Hinduism but is NOT Hinduism. It came from it, but specifically was created to NOT be part of Hinduism, to reject many concepts of Hinduism but to keep some of the concepts of self-awareness from Hinduism. Still, that can certainly be debated, just as the Bible is constantly debated. Look how many sects of Christianity there are: Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc etc etc… That shows just how open to interpretation Christianity is, just as yoga is open to interpretation. If one person says “no, yoga is not open to all spiritual beliefs but is specifically Hinduism and nothing more,” that is just that person’s interpretation. If another person says “yoga is just exercise,” then that is just that person’s interpretation. If still another person says “yoga is a wonderful way to find peace and calmness in yourself and to connect with your divine and whatever deity you believe,” that is again just that person’s interpretation.

Take whatever interpretation you like. For me, a Christian, yoga makes me feel far more connected with the Lord than church ever has. (Not to discredit church.) It has also made me feel more happy, calm, peaceful, tolerant, accepting, loving, compassionate, energetic, healthy and focused than I ever have before in my life. Shame on any person who tells me that I’m doing it “wrong” or that I am “misinterpreting” it because it IS Hinduism. Yoga is for all to enjoy and to take as they will.

#12

Thomas, as a Catholic, do you believe that women are not fit to lead spiritual communities?

As a Catholic, I believe all that the Catholic Church teaches. I am not a “cafeteria catholic,” accepting the nice easy things, and rejecting those things that cause discomfort, sacrifice, or self-denial.

There are plenty of women who lead spiritual communities. Mother Teresa would be an example of one.

Do you believe that ordaining a woman is as grave of a sin as molesting a child and the punishments should be equal?

It’s impossible for a woman to be ordained.

Do you believe that the bread and wine literally become the body and blood, with the exact chemical makeup as Christ’s body and blood?

Yes I literally believe the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, but remain under the appearance of bread and wine. That appearance includes composition of the bread and wine which were there before the Consecration. Catholics do not believe there is any chemical change in the bread and wine after Consecration.

Do you approve or disapprove of the Church’s actions in regards to priests that molested children?

Every Catholic is horrified at this scandal, and it’s very sad that the actions of a few have hurt so may and tarnished the reputations of all the good priests who have made a sacrifice for the Church.

However you feel about any of those concepts is just fine, but these are the concepts that are most commonly rejected by many faithful and practicing Catholics. The point is that one can be a faithful and active Catholic, yet still disagree with some of the doctrines or actions of the Catholic Church.

A faithful practicing Catholic does not dispute one iota of Church doctrine. He could dispute the actions of a priest, bishop, or even the pope, but could not dispute any church doctrine they would teach.

I’m not sure if yoga is Hindu or not. I think it’s fair to take from yoga what I like and disregard the rest, sinc yoga is not my religion. Though I have little regard for “cafeteria Catholics,” those outside of Catholicism are more than welcome to take whatever prayers or scriptures they like and use them as their spiritual devotions in addition to whatever else they do. They are not practicing Catholicism when they do that, just like the person who is doing an asana practice is not practicing Hinduism, or “true yoga” if yoga means an entire spiritual discipline or religion.

#13

[QUOTE=thomas;39057]

But I am also unclear as to what yoga is, since there seem to be so many varieties and so many interpretations.[/QUOTE]

Here it is the official opinion of the Catholic church about yoga:

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/yoga.htm

This is an official site. It has writings by Pope John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger
(the present Pope) and the Congreggation for the Doctrine of Faith, the dogma watcher.

I would rather be careful about the dangers of yoga, as actually specified by the advanced yogis and mentioned in the text above. A real guru is of
inestimable value, but really how many real gurus are there ?

#14

[QUOTE=oak333;39580]Here it is the official opinion of the Catholic church about yoga:

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/yoga.htm

This is an official site. It has writings by Pope John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger
(the present Pope) and the Congreggation for the Doctrine of Faith, the dogma watcher.

I would rather be careful about the dangers of yoga, as actually specified by the advanced yogis and mentioned in the text above. A real guru is of
inestimable value, but really how many real gurus are there ?[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting article which raises legitimate points, but is in no way an official statment by the Church.

A Catholic may practice the parts of yoga that can be called “exercise” and must reject any spirtual aspect that conflicts with their faith.

#15

[QUOTE=thomas;39584]This is an interesting article which raises legitimate points, but is in no way an official statment by the Church.

A Catholic may practice the parts of yoga that can be called “exercise” and must reject any spirtual aspect that conflicts with their faith.[/QUOTE]

IMHO all you have to do to practise yoga and still remain a Christian is simply to choose Jesus Christ as your deity.

Meditation is an Universal Tradition in all major religions of the world:

http://www.wccm.org/item.asp?recordid=welcome&pagestyle=default

Lots of Christians practise meditation, even guided by Catholic priests like
Father Laurence Freeman:

#16

[QUOTE=oak333;39586]IMHO all you have to do to practise yoga and still remain a Christian is simply to choose Jesus Christ as your deity.

Meditation is an Universal Tradition in all major religions of the world:

http://www.wccm.org/item.asp?recordid=welcome&pagestyle=default

Lots of Christians practise meditation, even guided by Catholic priests like
Father Laurence Freeman:[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I forgot to post the link:

http://www.wccm.org/home.asp?pagestyle=home

#17

[QUOTE=oak333;39580]Here it is the official opinion of the Catholic church about yoga:

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/yoga.htm

This is an official site. It has writings by Pope John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger
(the present Pope) and the Congreggation for the Doctrine of Faith, the dogma watcher.

I would rather be careful about the dangers of yoga, as actually specified by the advanced yogis and mentioned in the text above. A real guru is of
inestimable value, but really how many real gurus are there ?[/QUOTE]

Read the info on the link. I was especially interested to see Reiki mentioned. Much, if not all of the info is incorrect. There are a group of people who believe the origins of Reiki lies in Escoteric Buddhism. But this belief is not commonly held and I find it interesting that while the majority of people disregard this, it is listed as an argument against Reiki practice. in looking at the Distant Reiki symbol, it is Kanji, originally a Chinese idiogram, and not a Tibetan character.

As many of you already know, I am a level II Reiki practitioner. One of the most blatant errors in the article is the statement about the Reiki practitioner being the healer. We are not the healer, but the conduit. There is a big difference here. I was taught Reiki by a Sisters of Charity Nun. She taught us the original Usui method of Reiki and we studied at great length the history and common misconceptions. Usui was a Buddhist Monk who was in search of a healing method that did not deplete ones own energy. He studied Kiko, Japanese version of QiGong. He thought the practice was wonderfully healing, but were prone to energy depletion. He traveled throughout the world studying and searching for a method of healing that would not deplete ones energy. He was at a retreat, and toward the very end a great and powerful spiritual light entered his head and he had a satori. The Reiki energy came to him, that very moment in the form of attunement. He began Reiki healing first on himself and then his family. During an earthquake in the early 1920’s in Japan he and his students used Reiki to help those who were injured. Reiki came to the West through a woman named Takata who lived in Hawaii.

Anyway, suffice to say, Reiki is not Wiccan, nor is it some release of sexual energy, nor is it that you are the healer.

And as far as the info on yoga. All I can say (and I will include the part about Reiki) is that which we don’t understand we condemn. I believe it is so unfortunate, if it is true, that the Catholic church has come out against yoga. Once again, yoga came to us through Hinduism but is not the property of Hinduism. Yoga predates Hinduism. The catholic church needs to re-evaluate their stance on many things. Yoga and Reiki are just a couple. Keep in mind I was raised catholic and have respect for its teachings. I just think some are way too outdated for modern society to embrace.

Why would the Catholic church not embrace something that has healed and benefited so many such as Reiki and Yoga. This I do not understand.

#18

Yoga predates Hinduism

I think we’ve already had this discussion and is was establised that Yoga is a formal Hindu practice and philosophy that originated in Hinduism.

You were unsuccessful in pointing out a a non-Hindu origin of Yoga, so I am sorry but it is disingenious for you go around saying, “Yoga predates Hinduism”

#19

Oh Surya, I certainly don’t want to engage in that again! There was no “winner” in the discussion. Many people have agreed with what I stated and there were those who agreed with you. Many sides of the coin! But really, I don’t want to rehash this again. I’ll confine myself to the “Non Religious” forum if we go there again!

#20

You are starting that discussion here again by reiterating that statement “Yoga predates Hinduism” This is a lie and you are going to be challenged everytime you state this lie.

I think it simply shows a lack of respect really for the original religion, culture and philosophy from where Yoga originates to continue to go around saying Yoga is something this culture merely borrowed.

This is not something one can have an opinion on, it is a matter of fact. Yoga is a Sanskrit word which is the sacred language of Hinduism. It means “union” refering to the union of the individual soul with the supreme soul or the realization of self which is the religious doctrine of Hinduism. The very first ever description of Yoga in its complete form is found in the Vedas. The practice of Yoga invented and developed within Hinduism for religious purposes, was later borrowed by other Indian religions and then exported to over parts of the world where it influenced Western Gnostic movements and Sufism. In modern times, Yoga was exported to the West by Hindu gurus.

Yoga is Hinduism’s contribution to the world. It is a Hindu practice and philosophy. Hindus do not mind if you use Yoga, but we do mind if you start spreading lies that we were not the creators and developers of Yoga.

Besides if you were correct why can you not show a single source pointing to a non Hindu origin of Yoga? You cannot because it is a lie and you are now perpetuating this lie - consciously - under the facade that “it is my opinion”