Yoga and Sex vs Celibacy

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#9

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62352]Yoga requires celibacy - true or false?

Discuss…[/QUOTE]

Although we are never divided in the first place the methods of the yogic sciences should allow us to wake up to the original whole, hence unite/join. Elevating consciousness one may begin to recognize a non-dualistic state of pure reality, Truth. The yogic sciences is a well tested vehicle on the path but surely it?s not the only conduit leading to ones true nature or Self-realization, removing obstacles and false identities the true Self is revealed. If you ?believe? using your body as it was intended to operate in this world to be an obstacle, than it will become an obstacle, just as all ?beliefs? are false identities.

#10

Hi Ray!

Thanks for your input but I fail to see what this has to do with the yogic practice of brahmacharya.

#11

F a l s e.

True.

#12

I am a little defensive about the “traditional” definition (now that I’m aware), because I think fun is eggcellent. I have noticed some debate on the forum about the purity of yogis…and the implication is that there is pure yoga, and then there is non-pure yoga. Although this has some merit the core of yoga is still union, which is why I appreciate the open definition.

Some people are happy being square, and celibacy is an interesting way to demonstrate selfless dedication, especially for groups who portray themselves this way.

#13

Yoga requires celibacy - true or false?

If you are referring to yoga as a method, then it should be understood that all of these countless external observances are nothing more than a means to help create a certain inner atmosphere, they have no value in themselves. There is nothing so called spiritual in becoming an ascetic, you can remain an ascetic your whole life without any insight into existence whatsoever, nor have you any awareness of your own being. But, being an ascetic can be helpful as a way to create an outer environment which helps you channel your energies inwards, with a certain one-pointedness. Because ordinarily - you are distracted by a million and one different things, then living as an ascetic can be helpful. But if you are too much attached to the discipline - it can have just the opposite effect. Rather than becoming a medicine that liberates, it becomes a poison that binds you. The reason why celibacy has been recommended is not as a condemnation of sex, but it is simply a method to help gather your energies and channel them into your meditation. Because while you are celibate, it is not just your body which absorbs energy, but also the mind. That same energy can be used to help develop the concentrative power of the mind and it`s attention. But it is nothing more than a skillful means. And like this there are many ways to try and absorb energy from as many different sources as one can manage. But if you think that your spiritual growth has anything to do with having or not having sex - you have missed the essential matter entirely. There are some fanatics who have been saying that celibacy is an absolute necessity, that it is even impossible to become awakened without celibacy. There are even some who have said that there are certain mantras which are so sacred, that they can only be used by priests - but they are forbidden to the lower castes. Amongst the Jains, the yogi is not even allowed to sit in the same space where a woman has been before, because otherwise he will absorb her energies and it is as though he has had sex with her. Before sitting in such a place, he has to use a cloth to clean the space. And like this - there are countless fanatics that have happened in the spiritual traditions who have been far too entangled in their own tradition in such a way - that they have denied themselves of any possibility of transformation.

As far as the methods towards ones awakening are concerned, there is nothing which is absolute. There are only relative skillful means and approaches. And for one who has already come to one`s awakening - if one has been following certain rules and regulations as part of training, you can drop them. They were only needed in the same way that a staff may be needed when you are groping in the dark. Once you start seeing with your own eyes - you can cast the staff aside immediately. Liberation is such, that it is not so fragile as to be influenced by whether you have sex or do not have sex - if your freedom can be destroyed by such things, then it is not true freedom. Once you are functioning out of your own true nature - then no rules or regulations are needed, no system of morality is needed, no following of a tradition or belief system is needed. One has come to know of something far more essential, that it would be impossible for you not to be in harmony with existence.

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#14

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;62384]That however is based on your or another person’s quite narrow definition of Brahamacharya, now isn’t it. So to state unequivocally that it “IS” included does not leave room for discourse.

Let’s say, for the sake of moving forward with your exploration that Brahamacharya is defined as the wise use of creative force. How would that alter your perspective and would that be a slight or radical alteration?[/QUOTE]

Your utterance is too complex for a non-anglosaxon like me Gordon.
I frequently don’t understand what you say.

My definition could be narrow, but it’s my definition. I’m not willing to add “in my opinion” to every post I send… It’s obvious that everything I write here is my opinion.

#15

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62392]Hi Ray!

Thanks for your input but I fail to see what this has to do with the yogic practice of brahmacharya.[/QUOTE]

Hi GORI YOGINI,

Take note your original question (Yoga requires celibacy - true or false?) did not include the word brahmacharya for which Hindu scriptures may be different than the yoga sutra interpretation? You asked to (Discuss…); Yoga, to bring oneself in union with the divine, may have very little to do with celibacy. Your question may not be conclusive for all, eventually one will need to move past the question towards the intent, I’m discussing not only for your benefit but also mine.

Since different beings gravitate towards different methods to obtain the same thing I did not see your original question (Yoga requires celibacy - true or false?) as “true or false” more as a discussion (Discuss…). Because of predispositions one has choice to practice a suitable yogic path, such as:
Jnana Yoga
Bhakti Yoga
Karma Yoga
Raja Yoga

Although each of these paths crosses over, many persons integrate and incorporate amongst them all, perhaps emphasizing one. If your tendency is towards recycling and purifying energies then one would be highly conscious of channeling energy and concerned how it can be used towards ones advantage, therefore conscientious celibacy may be worth exploration. I have no direct experience with celibacy after the age of 12 therefore would be of little help to anyone on this technique. What I originally tried to convey; if you see celibacy as a requirement and it works against your nature than it may manifest itself in negative not positive ways, your direct experience should provide the answer.

#16

Interesting comments from all here. Thanks for taking the time to contribute.

Panoramix said,

“Brahmacharya is not celibacy but wise conduction of the creative force (Brahma + Acharya). It implies to divert/channelize your creative/sensual energy or drives towards the spiritual achievement.”

Pan, what would you define as “wise conduction of the creative force”? On a practical level, what would that look like?

I’d like to explore the practical methods of brahmacharya and how they can be implemented in the here and now - 2011.

#17

Yes, I would love to learn about the “practicality” of brahmacharya. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that everyone on earth suddenly (or eventually over time) practices brahmacharya, and that we/they lose all desire for sex. What will become of the human race then? There won’t be much use for “practicality” then, I don’t think.

Thankfully, it is practiced by an insignificant few, sparing humanity an unfortunate misstep.

#18

Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that everyone on earth suddenly (or eventually over time) practices brahmacharya, and that we/they lose all desire for sex. What will become of the human race then?

We can also discuss whether or not its important, for whatever reason, for there to be human life on this planet.

#19

The seen is for the sake of the seer.

patanjali

The "lay" or "monastic" meaning of Brahmacharya - to me - is T E M P E R A N C E.
The moderation of activities.

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Would you just LOOK at all that symbolism?

#20

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62443]We can also discuss whether or not its important, for whatever reason, for there to be human life on this planet.[/QUOTE]

From my perspective, I would say YES! Why not! We are as deserving of existence as any other species. We screw up the environment as much as a termite colony may screw up it’s host tree. Perhaps we are meant to destroy the Earth in order for something else to exist in it’s place. That may be our destiny, or the shared destiny of our world.

But, when I look at all the wonderful things life offers (me anyway) I am in wonder. I just walked my dog with my son. Pure joy! Had I practiced celibacy, this moment in cosmic history - infinitely miniscule in the scheme of things - would not have occured, but the cosmos would be denied this little thing and would be infinitely less richer for it.

Yes, it is important for there to be human life on this planet simply because we ARE.

#21

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62440]Pan, what would you define as “wise conduction of the creative force”? On a practical level, what would that look like?.[/QUOTE]

To my definition could be added “sensory continence” or, as Scales just put, “temperance”.

But that continence or temperance cannot be withheld for very long, the “eros” load present in our sensory experience has to be channelized somewhere, or we could psychologically “explode”…

In Freudian terms, our [B]libido[/B] needs to cover an object.

And for that sake, Yoga, Tantra and other systems provide us a series of techniques or practices that allow us to divert our libido to the divine.

Some examples:

  • For channelizing our passion for life we may practice Bhakti Yoga.
  • For our sexual drives, left hand Tantra maithuna.
  • For our gluttony we may pray before meals.
    …

All this is Brahmacharya. Some could discuss that simply abstaining is Bramacharya, I wouldn’t agree. In my opinion, there must be a [B]sublimation[/B].

So, another definition of Brahmacharya could be: libido spiritual sublimation.

Have a look to the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, a tantric text describing several ordinary situations in life in which we could discover a little gateway towards the divine.

Of course, saints and masters have transcended our actual evolutionary state, they don’t have the need for resorting to all this.

#22

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62352]Yoga requires celibacy - true or false?

Discuss…[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

Repeating my post elsewhere on this forum:

I would like to take this (subject of celibacy) further into the realms of yoga science. I quote Swami Vishnu Tirtha Maharaj in this regard:

"Semen, the male impregnating fluid is called [I][B]Shukra[/B][/I] and also [I][B]Vindu[/B][/I] in sanskrit and the fluid discharged by ovaries of females, (that fluid which when combined with the spermatozoa of the male semen, develops instantly into an ovum of the embryo), is called [I][B]Raja[/B][/I] and is also regarded as [I][B]Vindu[/B][/I].

Ovaries of the female are glands similar to the testes of the male genital glands. The science of yoga informs us that [I][B]Raja[/B][/I] is also present in the males, but in an undeveloped condition and is situated in the region of the perinium, known to yogis as [I][B]Yoni-sthan[/B][/I].

Similarly, [I][B]shukra[/B][/I] in undeveloped condition is present in the females. Thus [I]shukra and raja,[/I] [B]both[/B] exist in the bodies of males [B]and[/B] females. A yogi combines the two oppositely charged fluids [B]in one’s own system[/B] and starts the evolutionary process.

Union of [I]Shukra with Raja[/I] [B]outside[/B] one’s body, i.e. within the womb of a female produces an offspring; but within one’s own system, starts the evolution of the involved [I][B]Prana Shakti[/B][/I], which in five known stages, evolves into [I][B]soma[/B][/I], the highest [I][B]vindu[/B][/I] in the cerebellum.

[I][B]Soma[/B][/I] in turn, brings [I][B]samadhi[/B][/I] through merging of mind and prana into the Self."

I hope this throws enough light on the importance of celibacy (to an aspiring yogi of course).

regards, anand

#23

It depends on the need for which you practice Yoga :slight_smile:

#24

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;62533]It depends on the need for which you practice Yoga :)[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

In yoga, by definition, there is only [B]one[/B] final goal.

regards, anand

#25

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;62531]Union of [I]Shukra with Raja[/I] [B]outside[/B] one’s body, i.e. within the womb of a female produces an offspring; but within one’s own system, starts the evolution of the involved [I][B]Prana Shakti[/B][/I], which in five known stages, evolves into [I][B]soma[/B][/I], the highest [I][B]vindu[/B][/I] in the cerebellum.[/QUOTE]

Anand,

Is Soma = Amrita? The wonderful intoxicating sweet fluid that drips down the throat?

How can one preserve ones bindu when testicles and prostate start hurting because of the abstinence?

#26

[QUOTE=panoramix;62552]Anand,

Is Soma = Amrita? The wonderful intoxicating sweet fluid that drips down the throat?

How can one preserve ones bindu when testicles and prostate start hurting because of the abstinence?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Again to quote from works by Swami Vishnu Tirth Maharaj:

"(In a larger context), [I][B]soma[/B][/I] is described as the life giving fluid that descends from the heavens, and takes the form of [I][B]Parjanya[/B][/I] and showers down with rain, builds up vegetation, enters the body with the vegetable food and is ultimately transformed into semen (in men).

[I][B]Soma[/B][/I] is thus the highest form of [I][B]vindu[/B][/I] and semen, the [B]lowest[/B]. Science of Yoga prescribes practices which make a yogi taste the [I][B]soma[/B][/I] fluid. In case of ordinary persons, it flows down the spinal cord, in the ordinary course of nature and is burnt in the fire of the Sun; but a yogi through the practice of [I][B]khechar[/B][/I]i makes it drop down the nasal roof and by raising the tongue into the palatal cavity above the soft palate, begins to taste it. The fluid so tasted rejuvenates his whole system; perhaps all glands become charged afresh with vitality, bringing in youth-like age even to old bodies."

So yes, [I][B]soma is amrit[/B][/I]. To continue with the words of Swami Vishnu Tirth Maharaj:

“In conclusion we may say that a seed is the last product of creation and every seed possesses two lobes, serving the function of male and female, both combined, having the power of germinating. So is the case with the animal kingdom. In case of human beings, when the two are made to combine internally, they instead of procreating for the continuation of the species, evolve out a force which makes the potentially residual [I][B]Kundalini[/B][/I] Power kinetic and gives it the evolutionary turn. As in the case of sex enjoyment, both the parties experience a kind of sensual pleasure, in the same way, the union of all dual forces, viz. [I][B]Prana and Apana, Ida and Pingala, Shukra and Raja[/B][/I] make the forces of mind and [I][B]Prana[/B][/I] discharge themselves into the Absolute, yielding a higher sense of spiritual bilss.”

Please note classical [I][B]Vajaroli and Khechari[/B][/I] are extremely difficult Hatha Yoga practices. Hence in [I][B]Mahayoga[/B][/I], there is an extremely simple Introductory Practice, which takes the mind directly into [I][B]Prana,[/B][/I] whose form is that of [B]air[/B] that [B]automatically[/B] enters and leaves the body.

Regards, anand

#27

I experienced Amrita for three years as a result of my Kriya Yoga practice, I felt really “high” and blessed, and it tasted like ripe pear juice. But eventually, it waned until disappearing. I have no more experienced it although my practice and lifestyle haven’t changed.
I know about many other yoga students who have undergone this process.

What could be the reason? Do you think our brain may develop “tolerance” to that substance, like happens with drugs?

#28

[QUOTE=panoramix;62557]I experienced Amrita for three years as a result of my Kriya Yoga practice, I felt really “high” and blessed, and it tasted like ripe pear juice. But eventually, it waned until disappearing. I have no more experienced it although my practice and lifestyle haven’t changed.
I know about many other yoga students who have undergone this process.

What could be the reason? Do you think our brain may develop “tolerance” to that substance, like happens with drugs?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I think you have to ask these questions to your Guru, as only Guru will know the processes taking place in you.

Even then, if you ask me, perfection in [I][B]Vajroli[/B][/I] and [I][B]Khechari[/B][/I] practices of Hatha Yoga, lead to experiencing [I][B]Amrit.[/B][/I] This represents the physical plane of evolution. This phase for you has probably reached its end, via Kriya Yoga practices. Maybe, you should now touch the higher aspects of the internal unions.

The practices of Kriya Yoga eventually lead to awakening the evolutionary aspect of Kundalini. This may have taken place in you. Maybe, more time needs to be spent in sitting still, with body completely relaxed and [B]allowing[/B] the awakened Kundalini to carry out internal purification on her own, i.e. without your interference.

Regards, anand