Yoga and Sex vs Celibacy

prasad,

"One can train his mind against these cardinal desires
That’s yoga is all about? "

Is there a difference between training against something, and understanding it ? What is needed is not to control the mind, what is needed is to liberate the mind. And for that - what is needed is understanding, what is needed is insight. You can have tremendous control, but without even a drop of insight. Control by itself is just mechanical. Insight is spontaneous, it has a living flame of life in it. There are some yogis who are very controlled, but have remained in the darkness of their ignorance because they did not come into contact with even a spark of insight. What is needed is not to train the mind for or against anything. That is why Patanjali has said that both attraction and aversion are amongst the most blinding forces for one’s awareness. If you are to have an understanding into anything - what is needed is to be able to observe things as they are in the present, without becoming identified with anything which may arise in one’s experience. If sexual desire arises, yes, you can try and repress it through control. But repression through control is not going to help you to understand it - it will only give you the illusion that you have become liberated from it. Control by nature means restriction, and insight is not something that can happen through control alone. That is why most who have been struck with insight are familiar with it - that it always arrives when you are least expecting it.

Anand,

“A yogi need not worry about the propagation of the species”

It is not a question of propogation of the species. If you cannot even be integrated with the ways of your own body, there is very little possibility of your being integrated at the level of the mind. In fact - the mind and body are not separate from each other. If one change happens on one level, another change happens on another level - they are two aspects of the same thing. But this obsession with celibacy has come into being because of an attachment to a certain belief system. Because there have been belief systems which have been saying that the body by nature is the cause of all of man’s sufferings. It is because of the body - that you are born with all kinds of limitations. That is why, the body is to be conquered and controlled, until it can become impregnated by a higher energy. But the fact is that all of man’s sufferings are created at the level of the mind - the body is not a hindrance.

“which had produced these lower products, which were the cause of bondage.”

By saying this, you are stating precisely the same thing - that because of “lower products” of nature, you are suffering. The problem is simply that man is asleep, that he has been living out of unconsciousness. It is a situation which is entirely self-created. Nature is doing just fine by itself - it does not need any improvement. Nothing needs to be added from it, nothing needs to be subtracted from it - things as they are are precisely as they should be.

But this obsession with celibacy has come into being because of an attachment to a certain belief system.

Dear friend:

Referring to your post no.189:

Well, all I can say about the above thought is that one should also not be obsessed with not being obsessed!

But seriously, referring to your words below:

If you cannot even be integrated with the ways of your own body, there is very little possibility of your being integrated at the level of the mind. In fact - the mind and body are not separate from each other. If one change happens on one level, another change happens on another level - they are two aspects of the same thing
.
Yes, most of us are aware that body and mind are connected. It is the link with mind and spirit that is missing from our experience and as long as we are obsessed with sex, which in nature’s scheme of things, serves to preserve the species, serves only to appease the ego which is nothing but consciousness that is mired solely in the senses.

Sex becomes an important issue in Yoga because in this, all the five senses are simultaneously involved in the gratification of ego, who continues to forever short-change the higher self of the reality of the experience.

To avoid this short-changing, Yogis found means for inner experiences, including those corresponding to physical sex to produce permanent satisfaction, as these experiences were devoid of the involvement of senses and the mind.

For Yogis, this was at once bliss and freedom from the slavery of the senses.

If someone has found a new way to attain all this, that’s great.

regards, anand

Well Amir your interpretation of mine and other posts shows clearly the phenomenol degree of unacceptance and this is because your experience is somewhat limited due to lack of proper understanding. A proper foundation seems lacking here…Experiences are not an end in itself and in your case you have stuck yourself in the limited experience you have experienced and comparing things with this limited experience. This is dangerous in a way for not letting the native to broaden his understanding…he remains sticking to his conclusions out of these experience because he thinks what he experieces is final and fool proof in all respect. Experieces is must in understanding natives own nature but all experiences are not fool proof. It might just be hallucinating the native and to to accept experiences as fool proof is something idiotic. Experience is a ongoing process sometimes replacing old ones and broadening his horizon.
When it concerns celibacy you are stuck in its natural manifestation. With respect to post 186 you’re mislead in taking body as an expression of the true nature…for if body is an expression of our true nature then it means that the soul is limited somehow because a limited thing can only express limited things but which is not the case rather the true nature or soul is not limited in any sense.Rather the body is an expression of nature not the soul…take this basic deep into ur mind.
In your post 187 you misinterpreted my first line,take the full sentence rather a small phrase which changes its meaning completely and that sentence was in response to ur quote when you said “nature has not intended man to be celibate” because if we follow the course of life the way nature wants,which you proposed in your post then the native can do nothing to achieve salvation,he will be bound to it.Hope you understood this second basic.Salvation is achieved when you know there is no relationship between the soul and the nature,both are free in all respect,its the connection between the two which the native experiences out of ignorance and other things which is the cause of bondage and suffering.
It would be rather unethical for me to make you understand rest of the thing till your concepts are not clear. Have experience but not stick to it,they are not an end in itself,gain knowledge to broaden your horizon either by “borrowed knowledge” which you call or by other means because untill and unless you do not broaden your horizon in which knowledge plays an important part…your experience will be somehow limited making you just revolve around it and unabling you to experience other things.

Anand,

“If someone has found a new way to attain all this, that’s great.”

There are other methods which do not involve celibacy, particularly in the tantric sciences - there have been many different approaches as to how to use sex as a method towards the expansion of consciousness. Whether you are being celibate or not celibate is not the point - what is important is awareness. If you are being celibate as a way to help expanding your awareness, then it is useful. If you are not being celibate as a way to help in the expansion of your awareness, then that too is also useful. But to cling to these fanatic ideas that the only way to come to one’s enlightenment is through being celibate, as some yogis have been saying, is simply idiotic.

Spirit,

"Experiences are not an end in itself "

Certainly. What is needed is not experience, because the mind is capable of as many deceptions as possible, it’s ways are almost inexhaustible.

“This is dangerous in a way for not letting the native to broaden his understanding…he remains sticking to his conclusions out of these experience because he thinks what he experieces is final and fool proof in all respect.”

Yes, with enlightenment, there is a certain finality without a doubt.

“With respect to post 186 you’re mislead in taking body as an expression of the true nature”

There is nothing in existence which is not an expression of the divine. Everything in existence is one and the same energy manifesting itself in countless different forms. The forms may be different, but at the root, everything is none other than the same original nature. Water may become ice, ice may become water, water may become gas - they appear to be different to the senses, but it is the same energy. The same is the case with a rock, a tree, a bird, or a human being. Yes, the body arises out of the same source of existence and is a reflection of it in the same way that all forms are reflections from one Great Mirror.

“for if body is an expression of our true nature then it means that the soul is limited somehow because a limited thing can only express limited things but which is not the case rather the true nature or soul is not limited in any sense.”

Even that which is “limited” is eternal. The eternal is the limited, the limited is the eternal - if you make any distinction between the two, then you have missed the essential matter. In the Upanishads there are two statements which are of great significance. One is “aham brahmasmi”. It means “I am Brahman”. The other is “sarvam brahmasmi”. It means “Everything is Brahman”. In Zen, it has also been said, “Emptiness is form, form is Emptiness”. If one wants to at least superficially understand it, then one should contemplate on their meaning.

“unless you do not broaden your horizon in which knowledge plays an important part…”

Knowledge to me is just a tool and nothing more, it is not a substitute for Truth. Yes it is an important part of the process, but knowledge should be approached as a useful instrument and nothing more. Existence is not something that can be understood through the boundaries of one’s intellect, it is well beyond that.

The problem is simply that man is asleep, that he has been living out of unconsciousness. It is a situation which is entirely self-created. Nature is doing just fine by itself - it does not need any improvement. Nothing needs to be added from it, nothing needs to be subtracted from it - things as they are are precisely as they should be.

Dear friend:

Man is asleep with respect to the higher/ subtle aspects. Once he is awake in this sense, he may be aware of, but not “awake” at the earlier/ lower planes.

This is because a person in such a state is known as [I][B]“Avadhoot”[/B][/I], meaning he who has done away with the carnal pleasures and has thus upgraded himself by moving from pleasure to happiness to bliss. I call this as upgrading because he has moved to zero dependence on external stimulus.

By the way, someone who is asleep, cannot wake up as a result of his own decision. If he wakes up on his own, the credit of waking him up goes to nature. If it is spiritual awakening we are referring to, then when such an event occur?

regards, anand

There is nothing in existence which is not an expression of the divine. Everything in existence is one and the same energy manifesting itself in countless different forms. The forms may be different, but at the root, everything is none other than the same original nature. Water may become ice, ice may become water, water may become gas - they appear to be different to the senses, but it is the same energy. The same is the case with a rock, a tree, a bird, or a human being. Yes, the body arises out of the same source of existence and is a reflection of it in the same way that all forms are reflections from one Great Mirror.

Dear friend:

Agreed. In my opinion, Well said. The one and the same energy, in a yoga forum is known as Prana.

However, I add that our dissatisfaction stems from seeing the reflection. That too through the limited apparatus of the senses and mind, in which there is a possibility that the optical frequency green for some species might get processed for some other species as another frequency, which a third species knows by the name yellow!

Hence Yoga tells us to transcend the sense apparatus. Once transcended, it becomes useless and a mere museum piece. Like for example, the pager, which was in vogue some years back.

regards, anand

Amir If tantric sciences do not involve celibacy then its better to call it a porn show.
Well its better to remain silent then force people to arrive to some conclusion and i choose,to retreat to silence…

[QUOTE=Spirit175;63812]Amir If tantric …
… and i choose,to retreat to silence…[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:
That is where yoga begins.
regards
anand

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63814]Dear friend:
That is where yoga begins.
regards
anand[/QUOTE]
.
.
.
Rightly said anand.
Take care and tread the path to paramanand with “silence” and then transcend it too…

[QUOTE=Spirit175;63818].
.
.
Rightly said anand.
Take care and tread the path to paramanand with “silence” and then transcend it too…[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

With Grace of [I][B]Ishwara, Guru[/B][/I] and [I][B]antaratma[/B][/I] (the three not being different), this will one day happen…

regards
anand

anand,

“Man is asleep with respect to the higher/ subtle aspects. Once he is awake in this sense, he may be aware of, but not “awake” at the earlier/ lower planes.”

In this sense, it is true. But when I say that man is in a deep unconsciousness, I am just saying that he has yet to come to communion with his own true nature. That is what the first glimpse into enlightenment is, it is a direct perception of your own true self. As long as you do not know who you are, then one may be doing all kinds of things, but it is done out of the darkness of ones ignorance. If one has yet to come to such an experience, then he is not enlightened or partially enlightened, he is on the path.

“By the way, someone who is asleep, cannot wake up as a result of his own decision.”

That is true. But that does not mean his effort is not needed.

“the credit of waking him up goes to nature. If it is spiritual awakening we are referring to,”

I know that this may be a popular idea in the Mahayoga philosophy which you are clinging to - but I want you to know that without your effort, nature is not even going to lift a finger for your enlightenment. Your effort is needed, not to come to enlightenment, but to prepare an inner atmosphere which enlightenment can arise spontaneously by itself. When the seed is in the proper soil, exposed to the sunlight, with the right amount of water, with all of the ingredients in place - the lotus flower starts surfacing by itself. But you will have to create the necessary conditions for your awakening. If one has been suffering, if you do nothing about it, ones sufferings will continue. Not even countless devas can destroy it.

Spirit,

“Amir If tantric sciences do not involve celibacy then its better to call it a porn show.”

If one is not going to practice tantra, then one should at least educate oneself about the matter. First, tantra has nothing at all to do with hedonistic pleasure of the senses. That has nothing to do with tantra, but belongs to what is known as kama shastra, the erotic arts that have arisen in India. Even Hatha Yoga is something which is basically tantric in nature - most of the methods which deal with the chakra system and awakening the Kundalini are tantric in nature. Matsyendranath and Gorakshanath, whom are the founders of the Hatha Yoga approach, were basically tantrics. That aspect of tantra which uses sex as a method for the expansion of consciousness is just a small part of tantric sciences which is practiced the by left-handed school. The purpose is not for the sake of pleasure, on the contrary, before you would be initiated into such methods the yogi has to demonstrate a great control over the senses. Because most of the methods of tantra - whether of the left handed or right handed schools, deal with stimulation of the senses - if you are not totally mindful in the process - the chances of your being a slave and prey to your experience is enormous. It is one thing to stimulate the senses out of unconsciousness, but it is another thing to stimulate the senses and remain meditative. So before you would even be initiated into such methods - the yogi has to demonstrate that he has already come to a certain amount of understanding and mindfulness. And as far as the sexual intercourse is concerned - it is not for the sake of sex. Because the male and female bodies contain subtle energies which are complimentary to one another, if you know of certain methods as to how to take advantage of the energies of the opposite sex, and channel it into your own system along the spinal cord - then it is possible to awaken Kundalini in your own body and raise it to the top part of the brain where one enters into nirvikalpa samadhi. So the life energies of the opposite sex are just used as an aid for this, and there are various methods as to how to do this during sex, some which involve ejaculation, some of which do not involve ejaculation.

Watch your thoughts as you watch the street traffic. People come and go; you register without response. It may not be easy in the beginning, but with some practice you will find that your mind can function on many levels at the same time and you can be aware of them all. It is only when you have a vested interest in any particular level that your attention gets caught in it and you black out on other levels.

You need not stop thinking. Just cease being interested. It is disinterestedness that liberates. Don’t hold on, that is all.

  • Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63814]Dear friend:
That is where yoga begins.
regards
anand[/QUOTE]

All the texts say that in order to gain release one should render the mind quiescent; therefore their conclusive teaching is that the mind should be rendered quiescent; once this has been understood there is no need for endless reading. In order to quieten the mind one has only to inquire within oneself what one’s Self is; how could this search be done in books? One should know one’s Self with one’s own eye of wisdom. The Self is within the five sheaths; but books are outside them. Since the Self has to be inquired into by discarding the five sheaths, it is futile to search for it in books. There will come a time when one will have to forget all that one has learned.

  • Sri Ramana Maharshi

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63820]Dear friend:

With Grace of [I][B]Ishwara, Guru[/B][/I] and [I][B]antaratma[/B][/I] (the three not being different), this will one day happen…

regards
anand[/QUOTE]

As you cannot see your face, but only its reflection in the mirror, so you can know only your image reflected in the stainless mirror of pure awareness. See the stains and remove them. The nature of the perfect mirror is such that you cannot see it. Whatever you can see is bound to be a stain. Turn away from it, give it up, know it as unwanted. All perceivables are stains.

  • Nisargadatta Maharaj

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63780]Yes. Most (all?) celibates will have sexual desire. Sexual desire is a fundamental, evolutionary aspect of humans and animals.

People choose celibacy for various reasons. Some don’t choose it at all but it is forced upon them.[/QUOTE]

Question: “Is there no love between mortals or must all love be first for God and then love for another being?”

Sri Anandamayi Ma: “Between individuals, true unadulterated love or fondness is impossible. Where love or affection has grown perfect this question cannot arise, for in such a case, who is the beloved? God and God alone.”

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;63881]All the texts say that in order to gain release one should render the mind quiescent; therefore their conclusive teaching is that the mind should be rendered quiescent; once this has been understood there is no need for endless reading. In order to quieten the mind one has only to inquire within oneself what one’s Self is; how could this search be done in books? One should know one’s Self with one’s own eye of wisdom. The Self is within the five sheaths; but books are outside them. Since the Self has to be inquired into by discarding the five sheaths, it is futile to search for it in books. There will come a time when one will have to forget all that one has learned.

  • Sri Ramana Maharshi[/QUOTE]

Shree Shree-Gurave Namah

The question is small, but it requires a lengthy answer.

Brahmacharya is commonly understood as Celibacy which means non-indulgence in sexual activity. Brahmacharya is more than that.

It is the combination of two words: Brahman and Carya. The word Brahman is derived from the root ‘Brh‘ which means great or supreme; Carya is derived from the root ‘carati’ which means conduct. Hence Brahmacharya means ‘supreme conduct’.

Ancient Hindus divided the lifespan of men into four disciplines (ashrama): Brahmacharya (Student life), Grihastha (householder), Vanaprastha (retired life), and Sanyasa (renounced life).

Brahmacharya ashrama is the stage of life meant for education. This stage extends up to the age of twenty-four. The student typically goes to the place of Guru (Gurukul) for acquiring the knowledge of scriptures, philosophy, logic, and self-discipline. During this period, he should perform moral duties and practice celibacy, righteousness, and other ethical guidelines as prescribed by the scriptures.

The supreme duty of a student in Brahmacharya ashrama is celibacy. Because of the importance of Celibacy in Brahmacharya ashrama, both words are being used interchangeably. Later, the word Brahmacharya has been used to mean Celibacy.

Earlier, the word Brahmachari was used to denote a Bachelor. Now, it denotes a person who has taken a resolve to abstain from all sexual activities in deeds, thoughts, and words.
Brahmacharya Definition
Darshana Upanishad 1.14 defines Brahmacharya as brahmabhāve manaścāraṃ brahmacaryaṃ parantapa. It means the constant application of the mind in the path of becoming Brahman is Brahmacharya.’

Shandilya Upanishad defines Brahmacharya as brahmacaryaṃ nāma sarvāvasthāsu manovākkāyakarmabhiḥ sarvatra maithunatyāgaḥ. It means ‘the abstinence from all forms of the bodily union by the mind, speech, and body.’

In the commentary of Chandogya Upanishad, Sri Sankara defines Brahmacharya as ‘the renunciation of desire for women‘.

Naishtika Brahmachari
After successfully completing Brahmacharya ashrama at the age of twenty-five, if one chooses not to proceed conventionally to the grihastha ashrama and opts for continuing the life of an ascetic for the attainment of liberation by maintaining celibacy and living with his Guru, he is said to be a Naishtika Brahmachari.

If he opts to choose grihastha ashrama after Brahmacharya ashrama, he is called Upakurvana Brahmachari. Upakurvana Brahmachari maintains celibacy until his studies are over and Naishtika Brahmachari maintains celibacy for the whole of his life.

A Naishtika Brahmachari should take resolve to maintain strict celibacy and should not give any room for carnal desires till his death. He should not even see women of age 10 to 50. He should undertake to live with his Guru until death. He should maintain extreme sense-control (Indirya Nigraha). All Sense organs namely eyes, ears, mouth, nose, and body should be kept away from sensual pleasures.

According to Vasista Smriti, he should hand over all his Bikhsha (food procured as alms) to his Guru and eats only what his Guru gives. He should never sleep on a cot. He should not use perfumes.

Naishtika Brahmachari is otherwise known as Askalita Brahmachari or Nitya Brahmachari. Skalitha means ‘that has slipped or escaped’. Askalita means ‘that has not been slipped or escaped’. A person who has not slipped in Brahmacharya is Askalita Brahmachari. It may be interpreted in yet another way; Askalita Brahmachari is one whose sexual fluid has not been slipped away from him.

It is not a surprising fact that Lord Sri Krishna was a Naishtika Brahmachari, though he kept himself in the company Gopikas. In their earlier birth, Gopikas were the devotees of the Lord. To fulfill their pious wishes of his devotees, the Lord allowed him to be loved and embraced. His love for them is pure and transcendental in nature. For Him, they are devotees and there is no question of any carnal desires in him. Lord Krishna has never attached himself in the ethereal body.

Take the example of Sri Hanuman who is a Nitya Brahmachari. His tremendous strength and intellect are attributed to Brahmacharya. If you have difficulty in believing this, take the case of Swami Vivekananda who was also a Brahmachari. His strength of memory and wisdom were just the result of Celibacy.

In India, there were hundreds and hundreds of Siddhas and Saints who practiced celibacy and excelled in spirituality. Invariably all religions of India prescribe celibacy as their moral code of conduct.

But modern science has yet to understand the glory of celibacy.
Brahmacharya Benefits
Brahmacharya helps the yogi to conserve the sexual energy and diverts it for spiritual development. It is the best instrument for spiritual progress. It boosts the practice of Pranayama and Yoga.

Take the life of any founder of Religion like Sri Buddha, Sri Mahavira, Sri Jesus Christ, Sri Adi Sankara, Sri Ramanuja and the like. They are all celibates. Understand their power of influence which is the outcome of the strength of Celibacy.

Mahatma Gandhi practiced Brahmacharya in his later part of life. His influence on people and others were due to the power of Brahmacharya. One could not ignore the influential power of speech delivered by Swami Vivekananda in the parliament of world religions.

At the physical level, energy is not wasted. It is conserved which improves health and immunity. It fills the body with Ojas which is a form of energy that gives focus and vitality. The vitality generated by means of Brahmacharya helps the yogi to reach the next level.

At the mental level, Brahmacharya improves focus and concentration. Other benefits include good memory, courage, and emotional stability. Negative mental tendencies like anger, passion, creed, worries, distractions, and irritability diminish and cease to exist. It improves confidence and will power. It generates internal peace and harmony. The intellect becomes sharper and more insightful.

The glory of Brahmacharya could not be expressed in words. It should be realized. The vitality and wisdom will increase million-fold.

Brahmacharya in Yoga
In Raja Yoga, Brahmacharya is one of the five-fold Yama. Yama is the code of conduct or Self-discipline to be cultivated as a pre-condition for the progress in the path of yoga.

Verse 2.38 of Yoga Sutra of Patanjali says, “brahmacharya pratiṣṭhāyāṁ vīrya-lābhaḥ.” It means, “by the mastery of Brahmacharya, vitality is gained.”

Swami Vivekananda when commenting the above verse says, “the chaste brain has tremendous energy, gigantic will power, without that there can be no mental strength. All men of gigantic brains are very continent. It gives wonderful control over mankind. Leaders of men have been very continent, and this is what gave them power. Therefore the yogi must be continent.”

Maharishi Vyasa while commenting on the same verse says, “On attaining continence, vitality is gained. By the attainment, the yogi raises to perfection. He attains irrepressible qualities or powers. On becoming perfected, the yogi is able to infuse wisdom to his disciples.”

Verse 1.64 of Hatha Yoga Pradapika says,

“tathā hi ghorakṣha-vachanam
varjayeddurjana-prāntaṃ vahni-strī-pathi-sevanam
prātaḥ-snānopavāsādi kāya-kleśa-vidhiṃ tathā“

It means, “it is stated by Gorakksha that one should keep himself away from evil-minded, fire, women, traveling, early morning bath, fasting, and bodily strain.”

Besides verses 2.88 to 91 state, “the yoga who protects the bindu (sexual fluid) overcomes death. His life is prolonged by its preservation. A pleasant smell is emitted by the body of the yogi who preserves bindu. For him, there is no fear of death until the bindu is established in his body. The bindu is under the control of the mind. Life depends on the bindu. Hence bindu and mind should be protected by all means.”

The type of Brahmacharya to be taken depends on the goal of the yogi. If liberation is the goal of the yogi, Naishtika Brahmacharya is more suitable. For lesser goals, less vigorous Brahmacharya or moderation is enough.

Samadhi happens only when the conserved sex energy is brought up to Sahasrara Chakra. In the case of sexual indulgence, precious energy is wasted. If the yogi conserves the energy, he can bring that up to higher centers. If the container has a big hole at the bottom, it can not be filled.

Brahmacharya is the concept of yoga that has been misunderstood by the modern world. Modern yoga is nothing more than postural yoga. It is confined to Asana or yoga poses, not even a full-fledged hatha yoga stream. Brahmacharya is not a pre-condition for them. At the same time without it, they could not advance beyond a certain point in the yogic path.

Approaches to yoga have become narrower. Earlier people pursued the path of yoga for spiritual progress and liberation. Now people approach yoga for health, fitness, mental peace or something like that. Hence Brahmacharya and other Yama are not relevant to modern yoga.

In ancient India, Brahmacharya was the precondition for the student of any discipline. It was not limited to the study or practice of yoga alone. Now the student life has changed drastically and the approaches to yoga too.

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