respected seniors,
plz tell me the yogaasan for upper and lower back pain.
thanking your
gmm
Imposible to say which asanas would be helpful without knowing why/how/when your back hurts…if you have any injuries/postural problems/weaknesses etc etc…
Please go to a properly qualified and experinced teacher and explain your back issues clearly and in detail to him/her. Then work with the teacher to deal with your back issues.
I agree with yogacambodia. If you back pain is caused by sciatica, spinal stenosis, a slipped disk, or fracturerd vertebra then you should seek medical advice. Stretching movements can make your case worse.
Depending on the severity a yoga doc might be in order
Imho
Cheers
Hi gmm
I don’t know where ‘kha’ is, but this online resource, Yoga for Backs (based in UK) might give you some help.
I would suggest that you ought to get a proper medical examination. I went to a ‘general practitioner’ (medical doctor) in the UK for my lower back pain. She then sent me to a specialist, who gave me very careful tests and specific exercises to do to strengthen the right muscle groups, in order to support the injury while it recovered. After a while doing that, my back was much better, and then I added some gentle yoga to the exercises later.
I’m not sure how medically qualified a yoga teacher would be to assess such conditions, unless medically qualified as well.
[QUOTE=PeeJay;80110]Hi gmm
I don’t know where ‘kha’ is, but this online resource, Yoga for Backs (based in UK) might give you some help.
I would suggest that you ought to get a proper medical examination. I went to a ‘general practitioner’ (medical doctor) in the UK for my lower back pain. She then sent me to a specialist, who gave me very careful tests and specific exercises to do to strengthen the right muscle groups, in order to support the injury while it recovered. After a while doing that, my back was much better, and then I added some gentle yoga to the exercises later.
I’m not sure how medically qualified a yoga teacher would be to assess such conditions, unless medically qualified as well.[/QUOTE]
I agree I meant a doctor that practices yoga also
I hope the o.p. feels better soon
Cheers
[QUOTE=Fixed;80123]
I hope the o.p. feels better soon
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, me too. Get well soon gmm.
These days almost EVERYBODY has back pain once you get past a certain age. Mostly, it is poor postural alignment. One of the reasons that I got back into yoga is that I got tired of going to a chiropractor and decided to become proactive. I knew from past experience that, as long as I kept up a steady yoga practice, I simply didn’t have any back pain.
Part of what I did this time around was to seek out a yoga teacher who is also a Ph.D. neurologist who specializes in spinal disorders. I had her to check out my postures and make sure that I am doing them safely, in a way that didn’t cause MORE injury. Some yoga teachers might themselves have enough familiarity with human anatomy to be able to guide you to cure the back problems through yoga. But teachers with this level of training are likely to be hard to find. Otherwise, you might have to work cooperatively with a medical doctor AND a yoga instructor to find a way to safely practice.
I agree with Siro about being very cautious, and Zen Guy’s advice is good too. My serious lower back injury was actually caused by doing yoga without taking enough caution and trying to emulate the teacher. I had a bit of backache now and then before that if I stood too long, so there may have been an underlying issue. I went to a chiropractor first, but got no better and several hundred quid lighter while he just kept making another appointment for me, I read up and decided their training and vetting leaves a lot to be desired (to put it mildly - you risk injury and death going to one), then went to the GP and National Health Service physiotherapist, which was got me back on track.
As I’ve got back into yoga, I’ve used a very slow and easy approach, not going anywhere near the limits of a movement that I could, relaxing very much into each posture, maintaining relaxed internal awareness, and making sure everything is supported as much as possible (so far, I pretty well just work lying down and sitting). But I can take my time as I’m not in a class and work from home. There are enough distractions on your own - a class can really stop you doing yoga with that internal focus, I find. On my own I’m “listening” to my body all the time, and even decide what postures I need to do from day to day by how I feel. I’m a little scared I might push too hard even now, but after 5 years of fairly severe pain, I reckon that’s a good lesson! I do find my yoga keeps it at bay, and it tightens up and gets a bit painful again if I stop for a few days. Also general fitness - walking, cycling and just not sitting for hours is important - they reckon the chair is a big killer in our modern society, so if you have a sedentary job, getting up and doing something regularly is very good for you…time to do that myself right now!
[QUOTE=PeeJay;80336]
As I’ve got back into yoga, I’ve used a very slow and easy approach, not going anywhere near the limits of a movement that I could, relaxing very much into each posture, maintaining relaxed internal awareness, and making sure everything is supported as much as possible (so far, I pretty well just work lying down and sitting). But I can take my time as I’m not in a class and work from home. There are enough distractions on your own - a class can really stop you doing yoga with that internal focus, I find. On my own I’m “listening” to my body all the time, and even decide what postures I need to do from day to day by how I feel. I’m a little scared I might push too hard even now, but after 5 years of fairly severe pain, I reckon that’s a good lesson! I do find my yoga keeps it at bay, and it tightens up and gets a bit painful again if I stop for a few days. Also general fitness - walking, cycling and just not sitting for hours is important - they reckon the chair is a big killer in our modern society, so if you have a sedentary job, getting up and doing something regularly is very good for you…time to do that myself right now![/QUOTE]
One of the problems for me is that it’s a bit of a vicious circle…most health professionals will advise you that if you have back pain (any kind of mobility problem) it’s best to move around as much as possible, because if you don’t, it makes it worse, not better.
BUT - with my back pain I can’t walk very far!!
I do my best to do some Yoga for back pain every day…
[QUOTE=leonora;80608]One of the problems for me is that it’s a bit of a vicious circle…most health professionals will advise you that if you have back pain (any kind of mobility problem) it’s best to move around as much as possible, because if you don’t, it makes it worse, not better. BUT - with my back pain I can’t walk very far!! I do my best to do some Yoga for back pain every day…[/QUOTE]
Hi leonora, yes that’s right, the tendency is just to rest because it hurts to move, but I think it’s a case of finding a good balance between the two, not avoiding exercise completely, but also not overdoing it and protecting the joints, vertebrae, muscles and so on as you move. Little and often might be the key.
I’ve always been susceptible to low back pain, particularly when standing, so things like shopping or visiting a museum were a strain, but I could walk all day and be fine. Since my injury, walking wasn’t so good either, and just getting out of bed in the morning was seriously difficult at one point. I’d have to roll onto the floor on my knees and get up from there. I just managed to put my socks on myself. It would ease up after sitting for a while. I still find that I need to sit for half an hour or so after getting up - if I stand in the kitchen making breakfast for too long it starts getting bad. Thankfully, I’m almost completely better otherwise. As I approached 50, I thought it was going to be downhill thereafter, but I’m rejuvenated and probably fitter than I was when I was 25.
One tip that I learned is to work out whether your back pain gets better with heat or cold. The opposite will usually make it worse. A lot of people with joint or back pain immediately go for warming remedies - heat rubs and hot baths, massage, etc. - but these will make an inflamatory condition worse. For the latter, a cold compress - you can buy special gel packs to put in the freezer - wrapped in enough thickness of cloth not to hurt the skin, can be held in place for a while. I’ve had days where I kept one of these tucked down the back of my pants, just taking it out to cool down again in the freezer. My chiropractor told me not to have it there for too long (I think it was supposed to be about 20 minutes), and that the natural re-warming process was also good for the back. I’m not sure this was doing much more than suppressing the symptoms, but it allowed me to move about more normally, and that helped strengthen the muscles to support the joints. Painkillers like ibuprofen also help because they have an anti-inflamatory action (or if you prefer naturopathy, there are some herbs that reduce inflamation).
In contrast, I often get a painful stiff neck, especially in the British winter, and keeping it warm is the way forward with that - too much cold makes it seize up completely! Again, I think it’s only getting better from doing my neck-rolls and so on, and keeping it warm just helps the symptoms.
Get well soon.
The right things for that is proper rest . Don’t pickup heavy weights .Do this asanas
Fists Forward Bend,Pigeon,Downward-Facing Dog
You can bring your legs, hips and spine into proper alignment, release tension and gain supportive strength.
[QUOTE=learnnakedacademy21;80629]The right things for that is proper rest . Don’t pickup heavy weights .Do this asanas
Fists Forward Bend,Pigeon,Downward-Facing Dog
You can bring your legs, hips and spine into proper alignment, release tension and gain supportive strength.[/QUOTE]
That sounds great, thanks -I was a bit doubtful about trying Downward Dog, but if it works…
[QUOTE=learnnakedacademy21;80629]The right things for that is proper rest . Don’t pickup heavy weights .Do this asanas
Fists Forward Bend,Pigeon,Downward-Facing Dog
You can bring your legs, hips and spine into proper alignment, release tension and gain supportive strength.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, “the right things for” what? Up to now several people have said that it’s vital to get medical advice/diagnosis. Different conditions will have different things that are right for them, and others that are potentially dangerous. My physiotherapist actually worked out a schedule where certain muscles were strengthened first with one set of exercises, then moving on to others later. And this was after half an hour of checking out very carefully what range of motion I had in different joints and feeling the alignment of vertebrae and the rest of my body. She stopped short of an x-ray, but only because she was fairly confident then that she knew what was needed.
I’ll weigh in though at this point the thread seems a bit murky and I don’t know if I’ll clear any of it at all.
- The question has been posed on a Yoga forum. Ergo the visitor is seeking a yogic reply. I do not give medical advice and Andrew Weil should not be giving yoga advice. One has to select their own form of health care. For some that is a shaman, for others it is a surgeon - and all points in between. People who wish to run off to hospitals should inform themselves first.
-
the OP has asked two different questions. The reply to each would have to be different. That which addresses the upper back is not that which addresses the lower.
-
Asana is not a magic pill. The most effective Yoga is a robust yoga practice (of which asana is a part) and when the issue is therapeutic the practice is not “off the rack” or “one size fits all”. Instead it is tailored and preceded by an assessment of some depth and breadth.
-
Last but not least, the OP has not provided enough information for a reply of any depth.
@InnerAthlete, good points, and I agree with 2, 3 and 4.
I’m not sure what Andrew Weil’s opinion has to do with anything. I had to google to find out some of them, and what I found seemed fairly sensible, pro-yoga advice from a medical doctor.
The “Inform Myself” issues may illustrate to some extent the difference in medical culture in different places. I don’t know whether Britain’s National Health Service makes it safer than the American culture, but it makes sense to me that it would be. As I said earlier, I don’t know where “kha” is, so what medical culture gmm has to deal with is unknown. I haven’t studied the research, so my comments are gut reaction, but I feel rather suspicious of the findings. For one thing, there has to be a lot of guesswork regarding the assessment of things like “avoidable error”; secondly, the harm caused may not be being sufficiently seen as a side-effect of progress (in other words, you might suffer harm during a procedure that wasn’t even an option earlier). Since modern medicine must to some degree be responsible for the significant extension in human life and improvement of its quality over the last 100 years, the risks also must have moved proportionally from non-medical to medical events.
Even if the stark facts are taken at face value, there is also still a big remove between the bulk of medical errors (which seem to be in hospital surgical procedures and drug prescription) and a person obtaining medical assessment of a back condition as part of making decisions about how to proceed. I often go to the doctor without accepting their suggested treatment, because their diagnostic skills and tests aren’t available anywhere else. But sure, one should inform themselves of the risks of any prescription - including “do the downward-facing dog” - before proceeding.
Finally, I feel fairly confident that many people, like myself, are “damaged by yoga”. I can’t make a proper assessment of those figures either, and much of the damage must go unreported (my own was for 6 years, and may still not have been registered anywhere after I got up the courage to tell my ex-teacher about it). Yoga is part of the complementary and alternative medicine scene, largely unregulated and, as far as I know, little investigated for potential dangers (or efficacy).
Hello PeeJay,
You make sound points, of course.
I too find Dr. Weil sensible, in his realm. My point here is that when one wants a western medical opinion one does not (sensibly) go to a Yoga forum. When one wants feedback on negotiations one does not go to the NRA. When one wants direction on interior design one doesn’t go to a demolition site. Since I am a yoga teacher and this is a yoga forum I (personally) effort to provide that information to the community.
And while I certainly think there are absolutely times one should be “looked at” I presume visitors are coming here for yoga advice and any neighbor can say “go to the doctor”. Add to this that I’m simply not comfortable assuming everyone shares an affinity for any one medical model which is why I say “healthcare provider of your choosing”.
As a yoga teacher I appreciate sound science but I do not rely on it as a panacea. It is helpful as an addition to a preexisting foundation. I’m also aware that statistics come in all shapes and size and are rather easily manipulated from a variety of leverage points.
Further, Yoga has withstood the test of time. Its tools have been vetted over millenia. And in the practice we learn to discern and feel what is right for us rather than lumping ourselves into a tidy group in which something is statistically significant. This is not to say that asana instruction hasn’t been mangled in a myriad of ways. During a workshop in which I was assisting, a woman was lying down in the back before the session in great pain. I discovered that in her previous class the teacher had placed her own body weight on the student in Paschimotanasana - a seated forward bend. This sort of thing is absolutely inappropriate, not to mention dangerous.
There are four ways injuries occur in asana, but these are not “yoga injuries” as Yoga itself cannot harm. The four ways are as follows:
- poor teacher training
- aggressive or violent approach by students
- inappropriate poses, system, or lineage
- unresolved emotions or thoughts by the student during the doing
It should also be mentioned that regardless of how we water down the statistical measures, cut them in half or in quarters, the number of fatalities far outweigh asana fatalities. Yes certainly there are a myriad of explanations and rationalizations for this. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is the level of outcry relative to the offense. Nary a peep about fatalities from the practice of regulated, licensed western medicine, but a couple of asana injuries and the entire world is aflutter over an inaccurate excerpt in the NY Times.
This is only my perspective and I certainly do not expect it to be bilaterally adopted. I do however hope that we, as adults, will adopt a stance of full personal responsibility and reduce our penchant for blaming. Only in this way can we find a robust empowerment to change our current situation, be it local, global, or universal.
InnerAthlete, I don’t entirely disagree with much of your position, I just questioned the research findings that medical practise is one of the leading causes of injury and death, combined with your apparent desire to divert someone FROM getting medical advice. Saying that they should only be wanting an Eastern traditional opinion seems a bit odd, given that the forum is presumably hosted in the west (USA?), is in English, and is a public, globally accessible, electronic forum. It would seem as extreme to argue that if gmm wants a traditional Eastern yogic opinion, s/he should find a guru in India and ask for private tuition. Modern medical science isn’t Western or Eastern, just modern. However, I accept a lot of your points, and understand that some people don’t like the medical model.
I also agree with personal responsibility and direct feeling and experiment. I actually wanted to share that this is largely how I work with my back injury and everything else myself, but I didn’t want to risk readers not bothering to ask for medical advice. Many of the yoga books I’ve read advise that one checks with a doctor before doing asana, pranayama or meditation. Maybe they are only covering themselves legally against issues that might arise, but I’d like to take the principle on myself voluntarily, even if a reader is unable to sue me for saying do this or that exercise. I consider THAT also being responsible - for other people’s possible injury.
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;80664]
There are four ways injuries occur in asana, but these are not “yoga injuries” as Yoga itself cannot harm.[/quote]
In considering the medical criticism, that’s quite interesting. I could say the same of medical practice. If done properly, it doesn’t harm.
The four ways are as follows:
- poor teacher training
Comparing:- poor training of medical practitioners and poor systems around practice.
- aggressive or violent approach by students
Lazy, irresponsible, short-sighted demands of patients for quick fixes (indeed, often ignoring the doctor’s advice to get more exercise, change the diet, learn to relax, stop smoking, cut down on the booze, etc…).
- inappropriate poses, system, or lineage
The wrong procedure, or unhelpful approach to a condition. And I don’t deny the medical field is full of this - gastric bands and cosmetic surgery are two of my personal dislikes - instead of psychological therapy and support. The stupid over-use of antibiotics is probably one of the most obvious too.
- unresolved emotions or thoughts by the student during the doing
There may not be a clear comparison. Anyway, I think you get the idea. Modern medicine doesn’t hurt people, like guns don’t. People hurt people. And I wonder if you might have a bit of professional bias. Yoga hasn’t stood the test of time if yoga practitioners are leaning on people in a forward bend and wrecking their health. It has problems that may just be systemic or may not, but we can’t just separate them out for yoga and not for medicine.
It should also be mentioned that regardless of how we water down the statistical measures, cut them in half or in quarters, the number of fatalities far outweigh asana fatalities.
Of course. But my point is that there are many situations where one is going to need medical procedures to try to improve or save your life, and they might fail, or someone might make the wrong decision, because they have to make decisions all the time, and some turn out to be fatal. And while I am a great believer in the preventative measures we can use (including, but not at all limited to yoga), they don’t just magically make us live long healthy lives. We have genetic dispositions to conditions that need treatment. We will mostly end up under medical treatment when we’re old. The world is full of yogis dying of cancer and strokes and cardiovascular disease, you know, just like everyone else, although they might do so later than non-practitioners.
Yes certainly there are a myriad of explanations and rationalizations for this. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is the level of outcry relative to the offense.
With respect, I didn’t think that was the issue. The issue was whether someone asking about how to treat their back problem with yoga should or should not be given a little bit of advice about the potential benefits of seeing a doctor, depending on what access they have to that, because of the complexities of the human anatomy involved, and the potential dangers of not doing so, which include paralysis and death. Many of us might well have back problems because of early injuries or postural issues that we don’t even know about, because we don’t worry too much as children. I am certainly NOT convinced that the average yoga teacher has enough anatomy and medical background to assess the health of someone’s spine.
Nary a peep about fatalities from the practice of regulated, licensed western medicine, but a couple of asana injuries and the entire world is aflutter over an inaccurate excerpt in the NY Times.
Sorry, I didn’t hear that. Actually, I can’t remember the last time I heard anything about the potential dangers of doing yoga, but medical errors are often reported in the media.
This is only my perspective and I certainly do not expect it to be bilaterally adopted. I do however hope that we, as adults, will adopt a stance of full personal responsibility and reduce our penchant for blaming.
Sure, who’s blaming? I didn’t. You posted something blaming medical practice for killing more people than die on the roads.
Hi,
I should suggest you go to the proper yoga school or consult with an experienced yoga teacher. Because the back problem can be caused because of any injury.
I believe doctors can be extremely useful but at the end of the day your body can self heal. Pain manifests somewhere in our bodies but that can often be linked to many other underlying problems both physical and emotional. Love and positive energy are your best starting point. Then look within and start a journey of unpacking suppressed guilt, anger, resentment, hate, pain, insecurities and buried truths. Process and eliminate the anxiety associated with these emotions. Yoga for your body and your soul, manifesting on your own ability to remove bad energy and encourage physical healing. Also indulge your senses with healing frequencies during yoga. Try this vid https://youtu.be/zkoPNvgxQCQ My family loves this particular one.