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#41

[QUOTE=oak333;56081]What if the members of this forum have a vote on which posts, threads, and posters
should be discarded ?[/QUOTE]

Wouldn’t it be great to do that in real life? Hang on, it was done in real life - it was called the inquisitions :wink:

We have found in experience the following ways of governening a space are the least effective:

  1. Dictatorship: They remain stagnant, because they do not allow dialectic and hence progress e.g., Iraq and Libya.
  2. Communist: They rule by the rule of the majority. If you are not part of the collective hive, then you are outcasted. This leads to social injustice. e.g. China
  3. Theocracy: They rule by imposing beliefs. If you do not believe those beliefs, you are censored. e.g., Feudal Europe, Iran.

The best space we have found by far is democracy. That is where everybody in society can get representation. Every opinion or view is tolerated and allowed to co-exist.

An even better system is the varna system from India. This is where we hold different people to different standards. Obviously, a member misbehaving is different to David misbehaving. The more mature Yoga members on this forum misbehaving, is worse than the less mature ones behaving. Thus they deserve greater punishment.

Fortunately, I consider myself a beginner on the Yoga path :wink: However, if truth be told, I have been able to maintain better decorum on this forum and practice some of the Yoga values(such as Satya) a lot more effectively than many on this forum :wink: I know many on this forum have requested my banning, but the irony is, these are people who have worse decorum than I do. If you got rid of people like me just because we have certain type of views, you will be left with people who have other views, but lesser yogis :smiley:

#42

[QUOTE=kareng;56119]Hi Trinley…I do see where you are going with this but the last sentence has to be incorrect?

What about the man who is mugged on his way home?..
The woman raped coming home from work?
The child who is molested by a maniac?

We cannot control anyone. We all live in hope…x[/QUOTE]

Hi Kareng. Projection —> attraction is a cause and effect relationship. Projection is the cause, and attraction is the effect. Victims of rape, molestation, and mugging do not project the desire to be raped, molested, or mugged. Those are not examples of cause and effect, because victims do not [I]cause[/I] crimes to be commited against them.

I think about the way that friendly, smiling people are likely to attract other friendly, smiling people. And I notice that when my friends are in a good mood, it puts me in a good mood too. When people are negative and complaining, it tends to bring down those around them.

My cause (smiling) can influence an external effect (others’ friendliness), but an external effect (someone decides to mug or rape me) does not indicate that I was necessarily the cause (projecting the desire to be raped?). That cause is found elsewhere.

Also, in that last sentence in question, allow me to change to word “control” to the word “influence”.

#43

[QUOTE=trinley;56126]Hi Kareng. Projection —> attraction is a cause and effect relationship. Projection is the cause, and attraction is the effect. Victims of rape, molestation, and mugging do not project the desire to be raped, molested, or mugged. Those are not examples of cause and effect, because victims do not [I]cause[/I] crimes to be commited against them.

I think about the way that friendly, smiling people are likely to attract other friendly, smiling people. And I notice that when my friends are in a good mood, it puts me in a good mood too. When people are negative and complaining, it tends to bring down those around them.

My cause (smiling) can influence an external effect (others’ friendliness), but an external effect (someone decides to mug or rape me) does not indicate that I was necessarily the cause (projecting the desire to be raped?). That cause is found elsewhere.

Also, in that last sentence in question, allow me to change to word “control” to the word “influence”.[/QUOTE]

I do agree that a positive influence is best…it might not produce the results one hopes for but it is the better approach in life…x#

Still working out…cause and effect …ha…
Now your smile…(cause) may wish to get a positive effect but it may get you mugged…

#44

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56060]But this is the crux of the problem exactly. It is never our fault, we can justify everything by blaming it on others. In your case you are justifying a threat of commiting physical violence against another person. If I ask the said person why they called you an idiot, they would be able to justify it. Similarly, people who have called me an extremist, terrorist and racist will justify their words.

Nobody has the right to criticise and complain about another, when they too suffer from the same problems they identify in them. You complain about aggression, and you threaten physical violence. Did you note that irony?[/QUOTE]

This is EXCTLY why I’ve lost my patience with this forum! I get called an idiot, among other things. I respond in a way I consider defending myself, and you put the whole ‘you can’t blame others for you actions’ BS. Why don’t you have a go at those provoking me and insulting me?? It’s funny that you don’t seem to point the finger at them isn’t it? Anyone who can’t see that this forum has become toxic either has their head in the clouds, or a hidden agenda.

#45

Thing is…when Nietzche called Yogiadam an idiot…Nietzcshe surely must realise that Yogiadam will come back fighting…

I’m sure Nietzche knew what he was doing and was expecting yogiadams wrath…which he got…

Yogi…I don’t see it as becoming toxic… isn’t that blowing things out of proportion a bit…?

#46

[QUOTE=kareng;56130] Now your smile…(cause) may wish to get a positive effect but it may get you mugged…[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure if you’re just joking here. If you are, then :lol:.

If you’re serious, I would have to repeat that victims don’t cause crimes to be committed against them.

#47

:Yes I am kidding…:D…

#48

This is EXCTLY why I’ve lost my patience with this forum! I get called an idiot, among other things. I respond in a way I consider defending myself, and you put the whole ‘you can’t blame others for you actions’ BS. Why don’t you have a go at those provoking me and insulting me?? It’s funny that you don’t seem to point the finger at them isn’t it? Anyone who can’t see that this forum has become toxic either has their head in the clouds, or a hidden agenda.

You still want to play the game of blaming others. Okay, then lets play. Neitzsche called you an idiot because you responded in the Hindu persecution thread in an immature manner. I said, “Air was not invented by the West” you responded, “I am surprised you didn’t say Hindus invented it” you tacitly accused me off claiming Hindus invented everything. But I never made any such claims, I responded to you that I have provided necessary citations and links to show what the Hindus invented. You said it was my opinion. This is why Neitzsche said that you were an obvious idiot who cannot differentiate between sensationalism and factual data with citations.

Let us be honest you were behaving pretty idiotically. Perhaps his choice of words could have been better, but we find in the relgion forum everybody lapses from time to time, and chooses more harsh words.

You responded by making a threat of physical violence against Neitzsche, telling him if he said it to your face, he would have been on the floor. You also once made a subtle physical threat against me when I said that the life you lead is cheap and common, saying you wish I was face to face with you. Your repeated statements of your physical brawn and of how many women you bed, and repeated threats of doing physical violence to another - does make you sound like a bit of a neaderthal(I could choose harsher words)

In any case you need to understand you are not innocent in these exchanges. You give as much as you get, and get as much as you give. Threats of physical violence against somebody are civil offences. You could be reported to your local police for making them.

#49

Originally Posted by Surya Deva
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55405&postcount=186
The situation we have at hand is a clash of civilisations. Do not expect empathy, sympathy from Western civilisation. They are asuras. Asuras and Devas cannot be friends. Western civilisation must end, for dharmic civilisation to flourish.

So reject all Western civilisation. Reject their shakespeare, reject their poets, reject their Hollywood, reject their democracy, reject their music, reject their scientists, reject their painters, reject their writers. Reject their history. Reject their education. Reject their medicine. Reject their religion.

It is time you assert the superiority of your civilisation over this asura culture boldly. If they say Newton, Galileo, Kepler, you say Kananda, Aryabhatta. If they say shakespeare and Hamlet, you say Kalidasa and Shakuntala. If they say Freud, you say Patanjali. If they say Jesus, you say Krishna, Mahavira and Buddha. If they say Roman empire, you say Mauraya empire. If they say capitalism, you say varnashrama dharma. If they Mozart, you say Sargam. If they say English, you say Sanskrit. If they say logic, you say Nyaya and Gautama.

We have a completely opposite civilisation with our systems of science and epistemology, our own history, own our logic, our own systems of society and education, our own music, cooking, health, values. Now start to assert it. We are the inheritors of a superior civilisation.
And that’s not just an opinion, it’s fact! :cool:

Btw, let me be the first to congratulate you for being the new Top Poster of this forum. :wink:

#50

I have not made it a secret that my view is Yoga is Hinduism and Hinduism is the most superior religion(including culture and philosophy) on the planet. I genuinely believe this, otherwise I would not be Hindu.

I am not a cultural relativist. Western culture in my view is adharmic culture, as long as it remains on this planet we won’t have a dharmic culture. It must end, for dharma to flourish on this planet. This does mean rejection of Western culture and acceptance of dharmic culture.

From your links:

In Hinduism, the Asura (Sanskrit: असुर) are a group of power-seeking deities, sometimes considered sinful and materialistic.

later texts, such as the Puranas and Itihasas, we find that the “Devas” are the good beings and the “Asuras” the bad ones. According to the Bhagavad Gita (16.6), all beings in the Universe partake either of the divine qualities (Daivi Sampad) or the material qualities (Asuri Sampad). The sixteenth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita describes the divine qualities briefly and the materialistic qualities at length. In summary, the Gita (16.4) says that the Asuric qualities are pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness, and ignorance.

I am simply remaining true to my own culture by calling Western culture Asura. My ancestors did indeed call Western culture Asura. The generalization that Western culture is materialistic, sinful and hedonistic has a lot of truth to it. Let us be very honest: Western history has to its credit the following: the crusades, the inquisitions, witch burning, colonialism. Not only just Hindus point this out, but culture critics in the West also point this out.

You single me out for holding views that were held by people like Volataire, Schopenhauer and countless Western intellectuals. Is this just because I am of non-western origin and am not allowed to say bad things about the West?

#51

Surya…India is becoming more and more materialistic,hedonistic and en route…sinful…
there is no escape…

You will not get the society you want…money rules and India wants it.

#52

Hi Surya Deva,

what problem would you see in me quoting this aggregation of your viewpoint? You seem defensive: Please elaborate!

#53

Indeed, I know that Kareng. Have you seen how many violent debates I have had with Hindus on the forum and predicted the destruction of India and the rise of America as the new centre of dharma on this planet. Have you not seen how I have predicted the rise of spirituality in the “West”. Dharma will flourish on this planet again, and this time the new centre will be America, but Western/Abrahamic culture will first need to end. We are seeing this with the inevitable rise of Hinduism in America.

It is inevitable because Hinduism is a natural culture that develops when any civilisation reaches a certain level of scientific maturity. Western culture is backwards. It is only now starting to embrace dharma.

#54

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;56161]Hi Surya Deva,

what problem would you see in me quoting this aggregation of your viewpoint? You seem defensive: Please elaborate![/QUOTE]

I am not being defensive Mr dancing is banned in India :wink: I am articulating my viewpoint very clearly. As I said my viewpoint is shared by many Western intellectuals. But why do you single me out for having this viewpoint? Is it just because I am of non-Western ethnic origin and thus have no right to criticise the West? Do you realise how racist that attitude is?

#55

Karen, I recently attempted to write a book on Vedic dharma. I have changed my mind now of writing a book on Vedic dharma. I am going to write something else when I feel ready. Here is the first paragraph I wrote:

What is Vedic dharma?

Vedic dharma comes from two sanskrit words. Vedic comes from the root Vid meaning to know and dharma from dhr, meaning the essential qualities or nature of something which distinguish that something from another. In short, Vedic dharma is the knowledge of the essential qualities of things.

Vedic dharma is also known as the eternal way, the way of knowledge, the religion of knowledge, the natural religion or the scientific religion. It is for this reason that Vedic dharma is said to be eternal and not authored by any humans. The general belief of followers of Vedic dharma is that Vedic knowledge is rediscovered in every civilisation in every epoch when it reaches a certain level of scientific maturity and this body of knowledge is then compiled and transmitted from one generation to the other. This knowledge becomes immediately recognizable to all individuals and groups who hear about it and naturally humans gravitate towards it and seek out teachers of it.

The great Oppenheimer once opined, “The greatest privilage the 20th century holds over all previous centuries, is humanity has access to the Vedas”

I am a very Vedic person and completely non-apologetic about it. My friends and family know that I don’t hide the fact that I am Vedic. One of my friends is the opposite, he is Abrahamic. I often joke when we go to the bookshop that hes going to the false religion section :wink:

#56

Hi Surya Deva,

I am not being defensive Mr dancing is banned in India :wink: I am articulating my viewpoint very clearly.

As I said my viewpoint is shared by many Western intellectuals. But why do you single me out for having this viewpoint? Is it just because I am of non-Western ethnic origin and thus have no right to criticise the West? Do you realise how racist that attitude is?
attack is the best means of defense, isn’t it. :smiley:

Let’s approach it this way: What reason outside racism could you think of why I “single you out”? Take your time to think about it, I gotta go now anyway; but seriously, it’s not rocket-science. Any 5-year-old could find the explanation. :cool:

And please don’t forget my question:

What problem would you see in me quoting this aggregation of your viewpoint?

#57

I’m done arguing here. Believe it or not, I actually have a life… I forgive anyone for calling me names, and I apologize for any of my childish retaliations…

however, can anyone step back and see the craziness of this situation. The thread was started by somebody pointing out the toxicity of this forum… and the irony, in that this forum is meant to be a ‘yoga’ forum lol
And here we have a perfect illustration of why this thread was started… hilarious really.

At the end of the day, we have no power to change others, but fortunately we have all the power to change ourselves.

#58

Hi Surya Deva,

From what I can gather I think you are flame-baiting me. I am not going to fall for it. You have proven you are a troll before, and you have not shown otherwise here. I need a good reason to respond to you, and you have not given it to me.

#59

I think that’s enough. If anyone feels the need to discuss any of this further, you can PM me.

Thread closed.