Yoga in the Western World

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello all. I’m new to the forum. I just have a few general questions and a note to think about.

I’m fairly new to the practice. I started off with Yoga about a year ago. I love it. It makes me feel great and I’ve noticed a difference with my body. I am more flexible, am finding a greater balance between the left and the right side of the body, and overall it just makes me feel good after I finish a session, whether its sun salutations or a hot yoga hatha class.

I am wondering what all your thoughts are on age and yoga. Can anyone at any age begin yoga? Does age limit to how much you can achieve in terms of flexibility and strength? For example, my concern is whether I can achieve certain poses. I am 27 years old, and sometimes I think, if I started at 18 I would probably be able to do more. Maybe this is silly. What are you thoughts and experiences?

I also wanted to bring up a topic that is actually itching me the wrong way. Yoga in the western world, but more specifically, North America. It has grown so drastically over the last couple of years. I live in Toronto, Canada - I moved here about 11 years ago and when I came here, the topic of yoga, especially hot yoga was not all that common. Now, that is all you hear and see. Advertisements, work conversations, students at school referring one another to the ‘best’ yoga studios in town. It has become a multi million dollar business by the looks of it. It seems wrong… how do we know what we are getting from these studios is even pure to the practice of yoga? I’ve never been to India. I cannot say. I’m sure even in India yoga studios are becoming more and more popular where they once did not exist.

And the amount of money we pay for yoga studio memberships? For a practice that teaches us to put aside greed, violence, possession, etc…it seems a tad hypocritical when certain studios are asking for over $1200 for a yearly membership!

What do you all have to say about this?

Glad I found the forum. I’m excited about learning more about the practice and enjoying each pose more and more each day :slight_smile:

#2

Welcome to the forum. If you have any ideas how I can rent, furnish, heat, light, and hire qualified teachers without charging $1150 per year, I’m all ears.

#3

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;68733]Welcome to the forum. If you have any ideas how I can rent, furnish, heat, light, and hire qualified teachers without charging $1150 per year, I’m all ears.[/QUOTE]

Nice welcome?

If your opinion is that it simply costs a studio that much, then please state it that way and I will be more than happy to hear more of what you have to say about it…no need to be rude and sarcastic…I would like to hear people’s [U][B]opinions[/B][/U] on what they think, not witty remarks that aim to slam one’s questions to the ground…but thanks anyways… :rolleyes:

I am wondering how over 50 students in one room, every single night, all paying at least $20 per class, justifies hiring a qualified teacher and still paying all the bills associated with renting the space, which does not require much furnishing might I add. Must be quite the profit margin. What is more worrisome is that some studios preach things such as ‘hot yoga for weight loss and detox’ claiming that the sweating burns off more calories than most cardio exercises and that the detox value is incredible…where scientifically, these theories are questioned left, right and center. Perhaps here in North America, it is becoming more of a big business and a big fad?

Regardless, it was a question I am posing about how much more of a business yoga is becoming rather than what its roots stem from - a philosophy and a way of being. It almost seems like we’re being sold a philosophy and at a higher price that we bargained for. It makes me question how far from yoga’s purity we are…or maybe we aren’t?

I wanted to invite others to share their opinions FlexPenguin…

#4

I agree with much of what youu have said, but won’t retract my comment, simply because your sentiment is naive. I do not say this in an effort to give offense, only to state that in the west stuff cost money.

That said, yoga exists in the west in many states. There are pretentious high-end spas in the guise of yoga studios offering all sorts of garbage preaching all sorts of cures. As long as it is shiny, new and has a cool water feature, it will attract the crowds.

However, there are many authentic studios ( in Toronto) offering deep experiences and wonderful communities. As with the hot yoga spas, they will have to pay rent and pay instructors. Often they have 8-10 bodies in the room. At $15 a pop, that barely pays the rent.

In my opinion, that’s a shame. I would love it if yoga was much more affordable.

#5

I am with the penguin!!!
Even here in the east stuff costs money…rent,electricity, the cleaning lady, receptionist, security man…my rent and food…

Yes some paces are very expensive but they are (in my experience) often the fashionable or “in thing” and are not following a true “yogic path”…so check out some other studios avoid the fashionable/new/trendy look for something/someone that you find to be more real/genuine/yogic…etc…

And if I were you I would look for much smaller classes!!!..Ask yourself if you think a teacher can really truly TEACH 50 people safely and effectively? Is there time for the teacher to give individual instruction/adjustment to do the asanas in the correct way for his/her body type.
Or is the teacher simply reciting instructions learned by rote? This is not teaching.

Yes of course age makes a difference…but anyone can start yoga at any age and improve their flexibility, strength, balance, posture, concentration etc,etc…
You might never be able to wrap your leg behind your head while balancing on one hand…but is that really important?..is that yoga?

#6

Hi Violetta, welcome! I started yoga 3 years ago in my 40’s, would fall over not retaining my balance even in simple lunges with one leg on the ground at the beginning…now I am relaxed doing full wheel, tree, crow and other seemingly impossible poses. The key was keeping a sense of humor (seeing the irony, here I was this guy who was in shape from weights and cardio, but not able to do what these girls were doing, and laughing about it to myself), as well as a sense of purpose (getting over my asthma, getting my flexibility, as well as the myriad of “inner” benefits that yoga offers. If you know what you want, don’t get distracted by some of the stranger aspects of the yoga culture :slight_smile:

In terms of affordability, it is easy enough to do the introductory student offers from studios, as well as some packages. I would sometimes pay $150/month for unlimited classes, and manage to go 30 times in a month, which means for $5/class you can’t go wrong, not to mention exposure to different styles. There are also some decent online streaming yoga classes where for $10/month you have unlimited access (Yoga Today, My Yoga Online). This works if you have done some in person lessons so you understand alignment, breathing and other basic principles.

There are many styles, and I think it’s good to experiment. I have tried a lot of them (anusara, ashtanga, bikram, forrest, iyengar, para, power, shadow, vinyassa, yin, to name a few). The really good teachers shine through not with the particular style or brand, but their approach to yoga in the deeper ways, which you will sense intuitively. So while you are sampling from the smorgasbord, keep an open mind, and get in touch with what you are looking for. Early on I liked the stronger and fast vinyassa classes where I could burn off a lot of tension/stress, but now prefer the slow, graceful but strong deeper hatha flow approaches, which give both my body and mind what they need. YMMV.

There are also great books to help guide the process. I’ve enjoyed Mark Whitwell’s “Yoga of Heart” and Ganga White’s “Yoga Beyond Belief” though there are many other great books.

Keep in mind the yoga industry (studios, conferences, retreats, books, iPhone apps, magazines) often gets in the way of plain and simple yoga practice. I found a teacher at a studio who feels this way too, and has a fantastic personal practice. I did some privates with them, which really helped me develop my own approach. Also, there are fanatics and judgemental people, as well as Americans who act like they are Indians, and Indians who disdain American yoga, and all sorts of strange things in between. Yoga if it is any good is supportive for your body, breath, mind and relationships.

I always ask questions, too, and while some people take offense at these (I don’t really care, as it is always caveat emptor, with someone selling a business service…or an ashram spiritual path), most are affable and good natured to help us explore and find our way. Sometimes, though, I have noticed this forum gets combative about debates; while I enjoy a passionate conversation about exchanging philosophical ideas (very stimulating to have such discussions about the yoga sutras and other texts), it is not productive in a situation like with the questions you raised, though I can certainly understand a teacher or studio owner having their reality of paying rent, administrative help, marketing, community giving, utilities and other costs of business.

While you are going through the “marketplace” looking for “yoga purity” just realize these are only people, like yourself, with all their responsibilities and distractions, as well as knowledge and experience. One teacher I like a lot, had given a great class; we got lunch together after, and he shared how frustrated he felt about parts of the class, which was so interesting because my experience with the class was great. Point being we are all there to support each other. You see this with the really great teachers, who yoga is not about a school or style, but about a personal practice and life approach.

Cheers

#7

I don’t really like paying for Yoga. I do my own practice at home for free.

Here is what I recommend: Get yourself a fully illustrated book showing the Yoga postures, breathing exercises and meditation exercises(Recommend: Bihar School of Yoga publications) Get yourself a good DVD showing the same. Attend a few classes occasionally at a local Yoga studio to make sure you are doing the postures correctly.

When you are fully confident in your own Yoga practice, you will not have to pay another dollar again for Yoga.

Actually most of the information on Yoga(articles, multimedia, ebooks) is available for free online. It is a wonder how Yoga became a multi-million dollar industry - why pay for something which is free?

#8

I find what Surya Deva said is offensive to yoga teachers.

I have put a great deal of my time, energy, effort and money in order to become a yoga teacher and continue to do so to deepen my knowledge and continue to develop my teaching.

I never expect any other teachers to give me teaching for free and I do not teach for free…I have to make a living, pay the rent, food etc.

(I do not, however, like having to pay an excessive fee…or teachers who charge high prices just because they can.)

Saying that you[B] do not like to pay[/B] is the same as saying that you do not place any[B] value[/B] on the teachers teaching/effort/knowledge/skill/understanding/hard work/years of study…

I am sure you like to be paid for your work…I want to be paid for mine.

The idea that yoga should be free keeps popping up in these forums…yoga has never been free…if students cannot pay with money, they pay another way…by an exchange of skills or by providing food/shelter to a teacher…

Why should you get yoga for free? After all you do not expect your waiter to work for free, your lawyer, doctor, nurse, nanny, postal worker, firefighter, math professor, french teacher or anyone else to work for free…!!!

#9

No, I do not expect yoga teachers to work for free. After all, if somebody is providing a service, it is reasonable for them request something in return(money, services) etc

What I am saying the need for a Yoga teacher is not very important once you have your own practice.

So I do not expect to get the Yoga teacher for free, but I can expect to get Yoga for free. After all all the postures and exercises are found in the classical texts, I can read those texts and practice them as I want, and devise my own routines. All of the postures and exercises can be found in well-illustrated tutorials online. So I see no reason paying somebody to learn something, which I can learn by myself for free.

By the way there are free Yoga services, which are or more or less free. The local Hindu society offers Yoga classes for free or for minimum donation. The Divine Life society in Rishikesh offers Yoga classes for free. There are many other organizations that offer Yoga/meditation for free or for minimum donation. Swami Ramdev offers Yoga to millions who attend his camps, or watch them on TV for more or less free. Yoga is also taught for free in some schools to children.

Seriously, I really can’t see why we would have to pay for learning a set of natural postures, breathing and meditation exercises. It’s almost as silly as paying for learning to do push ups and sit ups. This should be public knowledge, abundantly available to all and part of physical education in school.

Sorry if I killed the Yoga industry :smiley:

#10

I like the energy in a class, it’s worth the price of admission along with the added benefit of a safe space filled with like minded people seeking Yoga. Our studio offers packages, for ex; purchase 10 classes for $80 or $8 a class, trust me, we aren’t making any money.

#11

That is really what people seem to be paying for: to do Yoga with other people and socialise. I got nothing against that, if that is what somebody is after.

However, if your aim is simply to learn Yoga, so you can have your own practice, then there is no point attending group classes or having a regular teacher. Just do it at home and save yourself the money. I tend to do Yoga better at home anyway, then I can move at my own pace.

#12

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;68783]That is really what people seem to be paying for: to do Yoga with other people and socialise. I got nothing against that, if that is what somebody is after.[/QUOTE]

That is only a small part of why people pay for yoga at a studio, in my experience. The shared experience practicing with others deepens one’s practice on many levels. This is why people have congregated for millenia while sharing a collective or spiritual experience. Even us unlightened ones in the west claim a glimmer of that while at the studio.

That, and I want the chicks to check out my pecs and ass in my new lulus.

#13

I will politely disagree w/ Surya on one point. I do tons of yoga at home, but it is simply not possible for me to see my pose and posture from different angles. I think it takes a really long time to “feel” whether your down dog is proper. Do I need to draw my abdominals in more? Is my head in perfect spinal alignment? Yes, most of my yoga is “free” at home, but my MOST valued sessions are with my teacher. I NEVER leave her studio without some new knowledge, outlook or pose. For that, I am happy to pay her.

#14

[QUOTE=Mtnyoga;68796]I will politely disagree w/ Surya on one point. I do tons of yoga at home, but it is simply not possible for me to see my pose and posture from different angles. I think it takes a really long time to “feel” whether your down dog is proper. Do I need to draw my abdominals in more? Is my head in perfect spinal alignment? Yes, most of my yoga is “free” at home, but my MOST valued sessions are with my teacher. I NEVER leave her studio without some new knowledge, outlook or pose. For that, I am happy to pay her.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I also practice mostly at home though always appreciate classes with my teachers. As someone wise once said, when the choice appears as shall I do “A” or “B” the answer often is BOTH :smile:

#15

I think at this point, I would like to find a studio that offers classes with a much smaller number of bodies. From my current experience, the studio I have been attending quite regularly is ripping me off. At least, that is how I feel.

The main hot yoga room, for example, fits over 60 bodies. On any given day, any given class that I have gone to, the room if packed full…I’m questioning whether they have even gone over the room limit. Maybe I will count one of these days.

So as was previously mentioned by one of the posters here…yes, it gives the appearance of being nothing more than a money grabber. The teacher cannot adjust any of the students, because lets be honest, there are over 60 people in the room!

I would like to find a studio where I can get a lot more attention from an instructor so that I know if what I am doing is safe or if it needs to be modified, for example. I would love to hear any recommendations from people who live in Toronto or the GTA. I am situated down town at the Distillery District and my primary interest would actually be Ashtanga/Vinyasa.

Would love to hear from others… :slight_smile:

#16

I can see the point in having a shared experience of Yoga and having somebody to examine if you are doing the posture properly, which is why I said that it is useful to attend a few classes every now and then, to make sure you are doing it correctly.
However, I feel that the notion that we must attend classes regularly is overestimated and perhaps based on some self-doubt, that we are not doing things correctly and constantly need supervision. I mean how many classes and realignments do you need before you feel your downward dog is OK, and feel no need for more realignments?

I think one of the reasons the Yoga industry exists is because there is this constant realignment business going on - no matter which teacher you go to, they are probably going to realign you, even if you had already been realigned by your older teacher. This puts doubt in ones mind that their practice needs to be constantly realigned till it is perfect. But isn’t the truth that your downwards dog will get progressively better itself the more and more you practice - it will eventually fall into place.

In the Yogasutras Patanjali talks about the asana as eventually falling into place as you practice, you eventually find the right way to do it that suits your body. You feel what is right for your body. A teacher probably thinks something else is right for you, but they can’t feel what you are feeling. Only you can really know what is right for you.

Hence, my point is that I think the need for attending classes and having a teacher is overestimated. In the many Yoga classes I have attended, I have not really felt a huge difference in doing my practice in a class with a teacher and doing it at home, except that when I do it at home, I am a lot more comfortable and more in-tune with the rhythm of my body - and of course I save money.

#17

I’ve heard that in India when Indians do yoga they are rarely so concerned with alignment as westerners are.

#18

Chitta-sometimes…and it sometimes causes injuries.

Surya- I am glad that you do practice at home and have the self motivation to do so and that you so go to class now and again to develop your practice. But not everyone can do that…I am a teacher but I sometimes struggle with practicing alone…I will be lazy or easily get distracted from my practice and any small excuse can take me off my mat…But if I do my self practice in a room along with my junior teachers or friend then I work more.
One of my private clients is very familiar with the Ashtanga practice but she will slack off if working at home alone…she just need me to keep her on her mat and offer adjustments and answer her questions about developing/improving/changing her practice.
For many people self practice is a big struggle (they may have lots of distractions at home kids, family, phone, etc etc) and they need to be in a class…being motivated, challenged, taught, encouraged etc…and getting away from the distractions of home…

#19

While I practice at home, what I enjoy about class is being inspired by a teacher who has a very good home practice of their own, and keeps growing in their experience of yoga

#20

I love my new yoga studio here in las vegas… It’s called blue sky yoga. It’s a small room in the art district (max capacity 14?) There are paintings for sale on the wall. Its closed first fridays of the month for art shows…

Anyway, as the website says… 100% donation based. There is a donation box infront of the room (small sign on box $12suggested donation) I always give $5-10 for an hour class. I see people give $2-$3 that makes me sad because I love all my teachers and i want them to prosper. I really wonder at times how the owner makes ends meet.

If your rich please send my teachers a check! or send us new wood floors! :slight_smile:

I’m new to this studio but looks like it has been donation based like this for over 3years.