'Yoga is nothing but a practical Psychology'

Spirituality
#21

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;74887]There is no section on Ishvara, Ishvara is mentioned in only half a dozen sutras out of approx 200. The sections are as follows:

  1. Samadhi: The theory of Yoga
  2. Sadhana: The practice of Yoga
  3. Vibhutti: The powers/attainments of Yoga
  4. Kaivalya: The goal of Yoga

Ishvara is not the subject matter of any of the sections. Hence why I said in the OP the main focus of the YS is psychology, not religion.

Moreover, there does not seem to be much distinction between ishvara and the librerated purusha. The liberared purusha is identical in qualities to ishvara. The liberated purusha is the same as the drasthu(witnessing consciousness) In other words: Liberated purusha = ishvara = drasthu[/QUOTE]

and thus we dance in semantics and fantasy. If you go through the sutras you will find distinct sections which elaborate on concepts.

I ask you one more time, and no more (for in the days of old it was the chela who beseeched the teacher) for now, in this age, we have gone so far astray that the teacher must approach the student.

I am not your guru, but I can point you in the right direction.

Self Realization is but the first step. Are you ready to know who you are - or does the darkness win again?

#22

Now, you are presenting yourself as my guru? You are full of it lol
I cannot have a serious discussion with you i’m afraid. I would rather
not have you preaching at me. Share opinions, give reasons(better than
"Because it is") but preaching - no no.

Self Realization is but the first step. Are you ready to know who you are - or does the darkness win again?

Not according to the YS: Yoga is the cessation of the activities/modifications of the mind, then the witnessing self becomes evident.

Self-realization is the final goal of Yoga. It is defined as the total liberation of the soul. When it is liberated it is no longer bound by time, space or causality(prakriti) It merges into the absolute.

#23

I am on phone. Will post what can.now keep with me children! As I lead us through images.
You have a mirror, and the reflection inside that mirror. This is man. In man ishvara is the mirror, the reflection is the world. The mirror has forgotten its true nature for it self identifies with the reflection!
Your true nature is the bird that observes. But this bird has forgotten itself,it self identifies with the bird that eats of the bitter and sweet. Man was made in gods image. Meaning we are not God. We are a reflection of ishvara. As an atom is to a planet. Can the atom fathom the planet!! A baby is closest to God for a new born is as a mirror without reflection. We are born blank slates. Breathing is our first self identification. Then hunger and sleep.
When u merge with ishvara self identification is burned up. You do not exist. You are as God is. You are not God. You are…as he IS. I am. Is the closest and best description of ishvara in words.
The mind is ishvara when pure, the body is the bird that eats the bitter and sweet.
Sun, I like you. You are extremely educated in Scripture. More so than I am. Yoga is mind body control. What else is their? Melchezedic, you are another favorite. I would like to add both u to Facebook if u use that system. For I am no teacher, I am forever a student. And would love to learn your knowledge. I hope to add u two to Facebook so that I may learn what u two know.
truly it would be a boon/blessing.
I seek immortality and the state of being as ishvara is, through physiological manipulation. This is not mystical. Nor far fetched. But is an old road commonly unknown. And occasionally talked about in many cultures. The Taoist, yogis, and books of Bible to be the prime survivor’s. Of history mentioning it. Buddhism also has its place but I consider it part of yoga. Ironically all these cultures seem connected.
Burn all down. Seperate the false from truth. Combustable from incombustable. Smoke from the ashes. Build your path upon incombustable truth/ashes. For white ash does not burn. Take a blow torch to white ash, and it reflects light so greatly it hurts the eyes.

#24

A new insight. Amroli.I love the aghoris for they love reality!
amroli says the first of the stream contains nothing but the thin. Spirit without body. Midstream contains what u want. Do not drink the last for it contains the waste. In drinking my tall can. I notice the first gives no buzz. The middle gives buzz with clarity. The last sucks one into heavyness/turbidness for that is its nature. So as an aghori offers the first to the world by pouring out a bit of his drink. “Some for the homies” lmao. Do we pour the last out as well? Or realize its heavy nature and transform it? Overcome, turn to the lightness
Bwahahaha! Depends on ur capability I guess. Lmao just a subjective insight! :slight_smile:
.

#25

[QUOTE=Avatar186;74923] I would like to add both u to Facebook if u use that system. For I am no teacher, I am forever a student. And would love to learn your knowledge. I hope to add u two to Facebook so that I may learn what u two know.[/QUOTE]

I’d be interested in joining that party on “Facebook”, friend me if you like; Ray Killeen, Allentown PA USA.

#26

I will add you give me just a bit I have the day to do. :slight_smile:

#27

Ill get on comp and add you later. If u can add me. Christopher Paul lobato. Independence Missouri.

#28

I agree that Surya Deva’s interpretation of the yoga sutras is off. It is one of the many interpretations of Isvara that have come down to us through the ages, but it is not the concept that is expressed in the yoga sutras. These various concepts are the result of a process of historical development.

During the times of the Mahabharata, the different beliefs in the nature of Isvara was basically the only difference between the philosophies of Yoga, Samkhya, and Vedanta. The idea of a witnessing consciousness is actually first found in the Svetasvatara Upanishad, which has been shown to be addressing the differences of opinion found in the Epic schools. In the Svetasvatara Upanishad, the creative power that was sometimes attributed to Isvara became attributed to Prakriti. Prakriti was[I] devatma-sakti[/I], the divine power. So if prakriti is the creative power, what need is there of an Isvara? Hence the atheism of classical Samkhya. However there remained a need to explain what could set the creative forces of Prakriti into motion. From this developed the concept of the emergent Isvara, the first soul to emerge at the beginning of a cycle of creation, who in a previous cycle had merged into prakriti through the practice of yoga, and who becomes the all-knower and all-doer in the current cycle of creation.

Granted, the yoga sutras does not contain the complete explanation of Isvara, it is found in the Samkhya literature. But as Surya Deva pointed out, the yoga sutras does mention the practices by which one attains the powers attributed to Isvara, and there is enough similarity in the Samkhya literature to conclude that the emergent Isvara is the specific concept of Isvara that is referred to in the yoga sutras.

People tend to superimpose their own beliefs on the Isvara of the yoga sutras, and it has been suggested that Isvara is an archetype, and that it is intended to be that way. I think that notion is mistaken. The Patanjali concept is specific.

#29

I believe that the concept of Isvara serves a psychological purpose as well, that is the subjugation of the ego to a higher power. The belief in the supremacy of the self leads to all kinds of problems with egotism and arrogance. The subjugation of the self to a higher power is the cure for that.

The yoga sutras definitely contains a large portion of what we call psychology, but there’s more to it. It contains entire chapters on occult powers and kaivalya. That goes beyond psychology.

#30

I believe that the concept of Isvara serves a psychological purpose as well, that is the subjugation of the ego to a higher power. The belief in the supremacy of the self leads to all kinds of problems with egotism and arrogance. The subjugation of the self to a higher power is the cure for that.

Agreed, surrender to Ishvara is a practical tool to surrender yourself to the high power and dissolve ones ego. For me it is clear Patanjali is indicating the higher self and the goal of Yoga is to reveal that higher self. Hence why surrender to your higher self is one of the cornerstones of Kriya Yoga.

The yoga sutras definitely contains a large portion of what we call psychology, but there’s more to it. It contains entire chapters on occult powers and kaivalya. That goes beyond psychology.

That is the field of parapsychology and transpersonal psychology.

#31

You can misinterpret it all you want. There is nothing to indicate that Isvara is one’s own ‘higher self’. It’s clear that Patanjali’s Isvara is an individual purusa.

#32

Actually the concept of Isvara as a sort of higher self that exists in all individuals is very similar to the Christian concept of God, i.e. the Father in Christ and Christ in everyone. That view is more similar to the Svetasvatara Upanishad than it is to the Yoga Sutras. The differences in belief could be considered sectarian.

#33

You two. Comment on my most recent posts! :slight_smile:

#34

[QUOTE=Avatar186;74924]A new insight. Amroli.I love the aghoris for they love reality!
amroli says the first of the stream contains nothing but the thin. Spirit without body. Midstream contains what u want. Do not drink the last for it contains the waste. In drinking my tall can. I notice the first gives no buzz. The middle gives buzz with clarity. The last sucks one into heavyness/turbidness for that is its nature. So as an aghori offers the first to the world by pouring out a bit of his drink. “Some for the homies” lmao. Do we pour the last out as well? Or realize its heavy nature and transform it? Overcome, turn to the lightness
Bwahahaha! Depends on ur capability I guess. Lmao just a subjective insight! :slight_smile:
.[/QUOTE]

Yuk. You’ve got to be crazy.

#35

Hahaha! I was not talking about urine!!! Nor.was I talking.about that post :wink: but thank you for giving your attention and time. You did not “have too” but still did :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#36

We associate the word amroli with drinking urine. Yet amroli is not the drinking of urine. It can be observed in it, but is not of it. But again. Wrong post :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile:

#37

[QUOTE=Asuri;74934]You can misinterpret it all you want. There is nothing to indicate that Isvara is one’s own ‘higher self’. It’s clear that Patanjali’s Isvara is an individual purusa.[/QUOTE]

I am not misinterpreting it. It is you who are misinterpreting it, to fit your Christian biasses. For instance you say ‘higher self’ is something that is Christian, but what a pile of crock. Anybody knows Christian doctrine does not support the concept of ‘higher self’ The concept of there being a self high self is Yogic - it is definitely not a Christian doctrine.

It is clear that Patanjali’s ishvara is non-different to the higher self. The higher self of Patanjali has the same powers as Ishvara. Patanjali makes it clear in the opening sutras Yoga is the practice for revealing the witnessing consciousness. Do you think we cannot read the YS? It says it clearly: Yoga is the cessation of the activities of the mind, then the witnessing consciousness is revealed.

#38

It is pretty easy to prove for anybody that can follow simple logic that the witnessing consciousness is the same for every person. If one cannot understand this, they simply cannot follow simple logic:

Yoga sutras say that once all the vrittis have ceased by dissociating the witnessing consciousness(drashtu) from all the activities of the mind(vrittis) then one achieves full illumination of ones self. Therefore ones self is completely free of all any mental activity. What mental activities are there?

According to the YS

  1. Knowledge based on perception, logic and testimony
    ) False knowledge based on faulty perception, logic and testimony
  2. Fiction or imagination based on playing with ideas
  3. States of awareness
  4. Memories based on past experiences

According to Samkhya mind, senses, personality and everything else somethig distinct from the true witnessing consciousness.

In other word the witnessing consciousness is free from any knowledge, any beliefs, imagination, memories, personality, sensations or any mental activity in general. Therefore, anything that can distinguish one person from the other is completely absent in the witnessing consciousness. Therefore the witnessing consciousness has to be completely identical in every person.

It’s clear as 123. I feel sorry for anybody who cannot get something so simple.

#39

" I AM" < even that is deluded.
Consciousness void of self identification.
It is. But in that state you would not say it is or I am, for those are self identifying.
maybe I used the wrong words. But this is what I’ve been saying for a while :wink:

#40

What makes us different?!?! The things we self identify with. Music thoughts ideas feeling. That which is without self identification knows all the desires/world but is not the Desiree/self identifyer.