Surya deva said it well.
‘Yoga is nothing but a practical Psychology’ Sri Aurobindo
Perhaps an over-simplification, but… Agreed.
I think i used to think of it as a practical philosophy which is but moreover it’s actually a gateway or vehicle to a more expansive level of consciousness or mystics or devotional/bhakti types might say a mystical door to an absolute reality or a portal to the divine.
[QUOTE=Asuri;74932]I believe that the concept of Isvara serves a psychological purpose as well, [B]that is the subjugation of the ego to a higher power. The belief in the supremacy of the self leads to all kinds of problems with egotism and arrogance. The subjugation of the self to a higher power is the cure for that.[/B].[/QUOTE]
I beleive in your sentiment and conclusion.
Atheism, Pretension of being a guide, disregard of the wise - these all are obstacles to progress in yoga.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;74973] [B]Therefore the witnessing consciousness has to be completely identical in every person[/B].
.[/QUOTE]
your onto something but there’s just a little more . . . clarification.
and no the witnessing consciousness is not the Lord/Ishvara . . . at all.
I am not your guru. I will preach at you because you need it. I can tell [I]you[/I] what you need to do to get your real guru.
The witnessing consciousness is that which Is the “same” in all people. Variation being in self identification. In other words we are the same in stillness it is only in movement that we differ. Shiva/shakti
your onto something but there’s just a little more . . . clarification.
and no the witnessing consciousness is not the Lord/Ishvara . . . at all.
I am not your guru. I will preach at you because you need it. I can tell [I]you[/I] what you need to do to get your real guru.[/QUOTE]
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much 
Please find somebody else to play guru with. I am not interested.
[QUOTE=Avatar186;74977]What makes us different?!?! The things we self identify with. Music thoughts ideas feeling. That which is without self identification knows all the desires/world but is not the Desiree/self identifyer.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, good point. What makes me different to you? Lets think of some things:
I have a different name
I have a different body
I have different parents
I have different interests
I have different circumstances
I have a different background
I have different memories
I have different knowledge
I have different beliefs, values and attitudes
I have different friends
I have different preferences
I was born at a different time in a different place
I have different experiences
Indeed, there are many differences one can think of, but anything we can think of all comes under the category of prakriti consisting of the gunas(including all matter, space, time, energy, mind) in the Samkhya-Yoga system. None of these things belong to purushas. Hence, why there is no single thing to distinguish one purusha from another. Logically every purusha must be identical.
So we can see that Samkhya-Yoga logically agrees with the concept of an identical higher self in every person. It uses various names for this: witnessing consciousness(drasthu) ishvara(supreme controller) and purusha(soul)
There can be no question of there being many purushas, because purushas are outside of time, space and causation. There cannot be ‘many’ nor can they be defined, divided and pinpointed. Patanjali simply says the seer is is simply just the power of seeing. The only quality of consciousness is ‘seeing’ in Yoga. Consciousness simply just aware of all. It is not a doer. It simply is pure awareness. All that takes place in awareness is defined as matter in Yoga, including thoughts, feelings, emotions, desires etc
i may mis understand the workds. prakriti is the self identified. " the reflection inside the mirror"
purusha is the self identifier. " the mirror itself"
you can get to the mirror, by getting rid of the reflection.
you can get to the self identifyer, by ridding yourself of self identifications.
you can get to pure awarness, by seperating awarness from its distractions.
the lake reflects perfectly when ripples cease.
in short. you are pretty correct i believe your explanation, if i understand it right is awesome.
simple as knowing the nature of shiva and shakti.
or in more words, human nature and the primal spirit.
they are opposites it seems.
lower self is made up of changing self identifications. " the reflection"
higher self is the unchanging mirror. the self identifyer.
when you forget one, you become the other.
even better, subjugate human nature " reflection/self identifications"
with the primale spirit " unchanging mirror/self identifyer"
and then circulate them, untill the lower distills into the higher. darkness into light. the yang man.
in even simpler words.
the condition of the mind rests upon the heart of the body.
the heart/body is the eater of bitter and sweet.
the mind without ripples is the pure mirror without reflection.
when one moves, the other moves.
unfortunatly being ever linked. you either must seperate mind and heart.
or
attain a supreme state of stillness within mind and heart.
or, circulate the heart into the mind.
these seem to be the only ways of overcoming.
Awesome Avatar, were on the same page
If you are not already familiar with the Samkhya terminology like Prakriti and Purusha, I will clarify:
Prakriti simply means the source of all of material creation. The very substance from which all things arise. Hence why prakriti is given a feminine gender, because it is like the womb of all creation. Hence why in the Gita Krishna says, “It is I who become spirit and impregnate prakriti” Whatever you see in creation from microscopic to macroscopic, including the body, senses, mind, intellect, ego is all prakriti. They all have are made of gunas, the fundamental forces which are always in a state of change, hence why matter is always transforming and evolving.
Purusha means the conscious witness or observer. It is given a masculine gender, because purusha does not create anything, it simply observes and it is the act of purusha’s observation that brings creation into existence. It is not made of the gunas, so it is unchanging. The only quality of purusha is seeing/witnessing/awareness. It is because of this that purusha is always independent of prakriti.
The trouble is that when the purusha becomes misidentified with prakriti and starts to think it is the products of prakriti(matter, time, space, energy, mind, sense, ego) This process is undone through Yoga, whereby we can remove all these false identifications and realize purusha completely.
Avatar,
? A new insight. Amroli.I love the aghoris for they love reality!
amroli says the first of the stream contains nothing but the thin. Spirit without body. Midstream contains what u want. Do not drink the last for it contains the waste. In drinking my tall can. I notice the first gives no buzz. The middle gives buzz with clarity. The last sucks one into heavyness/turbidness for that is its nature. ?
There is a reason why in the yogic sciences such methods were always transmitted secretly from master to disciple. Because if you are involved in them without the proper understanding, it can create more damage than good. A method like Amaroli should not just be practiced by anybody. It should be practiced by a yogi who has already gone through much work in purification of the nadis and the energies of the subtle body. The quality of ones urine differs according to ones lifestyle. If you are living a lifestyle which is in such a way that you are drinking alcohol, smoking, taking drugs, eating foods which are filled with toxins and harmful materials, then it will be reflected in your urine. In such conditions, practicing amaroli can be dangerous to your health.
If one has undergone a thorough purification of the system through such methods as asanas, pranayam, kriyas, mudras, and bandhas - in such a way that the quality of ones urine also becomes purified - then it may be safer to practice amaroli. Even then, this by itself is not enough. You should also know when to practice such a technique. If you practice amaroli at different times of the day when there are different changes happening in the life energies of the body and your nervous system, it will have different effects.
"The witnessing consciousness is that which Is the “same” in all people. "
Even this witnessing consciousness is just a side effect of something else within you which is far more essential. Those who mistake The Witness as their original nature have been projecting a limtiing quality as though it were the ultimate. Ones original nature is simply inexpressible - being beyond all limiting qualities, identities, forms. By thinking it to be the Witness, you are imposing boundaries upon it. A witness requires a division in the mind between that which witnesses and that which is witnessed. Without the witnessed, the witness cannot exist - even if it means witnessing itself.
There is a certain statement by Lao Tzu, that the Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. When you abandon just about everything that your mind can grasp onto, even the very idea of nothingness, which is also another limiting quality, what will you call this ?
Exactly amirmourad.
Except. ALL substances that enter the body are impure. For all substances that enter the body are combustible. Thus perishable. Thus imperfect. Thus impure.
you see. amiroli is not a specific technique. it is an understanding.
For even in distillation. The lighter thin part of a fluid rises first for it requires less heat. the thick and heavy rises last for it requires more it as it is heavy.
In the consumption of urine. it does not matter what time nor what day nor what diet. Unless you are the transformer, you are ingesting urine in hopes to be transformed by it.
In concerns to all other things. this is simply universal knowledge that can be used in as many ways as you can find.
simply purifying the body and self is not enough. then you are simply as burned ashes bleached white by fire,clean, yet containing nothing. you must revivify. fatten yourself with the spirit, then dry yourself with fire. until you fix the volatile and volatilize the fixed. moisten the dry, and dry the moisten. then you are not only pure, but sublime.
As well! your second post was exactly correct!
for " I AM" is the simplest way to describe the original nature. the Tao. The Purusha
For I AM, is a self identification. and in even simpler terms. it is I EXIST.
Take that self identification away. and you will merge with the eternal Tao.
What IS the eternal tao? we cannot know. for we cannot fathom. Those who KNOW are. Can one merge with the eternal and return to his former state? i do not know. Can one have a personal relationship with the eternal? I have heard. but i do not know.
When one comes to the point of having no self identifications except I AM/I EXIST
Then one is free from all things in reality. Except existence itself. What is beyond existence? The eternal.
when one enters the eternal, do you still exist? do you exist, yet not. aware,but not. is it the true balance? the true uniting of opposites into oneness. or is it non existence?
I personally do not know as of yet.
Is it, it cannot be said to be " this or that" for it is niether, for it is both.
the yin and yang is the perfect balance. for it is a counter balance and a balance. most see the number 4. it is in reality the number 5. for they do not see it is a whole.
1=2
2=1
that is 3
2=4
4=2
that is 5. The perfect balance. If that is the tao. That is why it is indescribable. Because even though it would be this perfect balance, it would not be!
It would be merging with that which never ends.
for now you have the perfect balance 5. yet its opposite. and now these themselves become parts in a larger yin yang. and so on and so on. atom to planet. planet to atom. but are we an atom to someone els? is an atom a planet to another? dunno. but you get the point. ETERNAL is unfathomable. : P 
Apologies for the personal rant.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;75066]"The witnessing consciousness is that which Is the “same” in all people. "
Even this witnessing consciousness is just a side effect of something else within you which is far more essential. Those who mistake The Witness as their original nature have been projecting a limtiing quality as though it were the ultimate. Ones original nature is simply inexpressible - being beyond all limiting qualities, identities, forms. By thinking it to be the Witness, you are imposing boundaries upon it. A witness requires a division in the mind between that which witnesses and that which is witnessed. Without the witnessed, the witness cannot exist - even if it means witnessing itself.
There is a certain statement by Lao Tzu, that the Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao. When you abandon just about everything that your mind can grasp onto, even the very idea of nothingness, which is also another limiting quality, what will you call this ?[/QUOTE]
I am simply stating what Yoga says: Then the witnessing consciousness is revealed.
What is beyond the witnessing consciousness is the subject of Vedanta: Brahman. However, it unnecessarily complicates life to even think beyond and nor does it help knowing. In Vedanta the prerequisite to its study if the mastery of Yoga itself.
I think questions about what happens after reaching liberation are irrelevant. You are effectively asking what happens at the end of time, and ones mind cannot answer those questions.
Yay everyone is in agreement though.
meaning their is mutual understanding
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;75042]I don’t need your advice, thank you very much Please find somebody else to play guru with. I am not interested.[/QUOTE]
Rebuke the foolish and he shall hate you. Rebuke the wise and he loves you more.
Yes but it is how one is rebuked. It is (how) one corrects another.
Correct with truth. Speak truth. But truth is just as important as how one speaks it.
We are all teachers and students.be both but be neither.
A teacher makes statements through questions. Thus he is never above nor below.
A student askes questions through statements. Thus he too is never above or below. Never assumeone position. Or another or u deprive yourself of its opposite.
Correct but do not be the teacher. Ask but do not be the student.
In this. When the foolish is corrected, it is not you who is correcting, for u asked a question impersonally. Now the fool thinks of the question. But you are not its sorce.
Do the same to the wise. U will never be praised nor loved for this. Nor hated. For the correction is impersonal.
"I often ask questions I already know the answers too,but I do not ask expecting to receive my answer.but I can lead u to my answer through asking questions. As long as my answer is truth. Anyway do not be offended for I am you!
Namaste. I bow do the divine in you it means?
meaning I bow to that which is without self identification that exists within me and you.