I’ve been in and out of yoga for years now. I’m only 17 and the first time I went into a yoga pose, I believe I was 12. I haven’t been doing it faithfully, I’ll practice for a while, and then quit for a while. I’ve always kind of wondered what my problem was and I think I understand what it is now.
There is so much I don’t understand about yoga. I get the poses, and the breathing techniques, but the spirituality aspect has never come into play with me and I can’t help but believe that’s what’s holding me back from being truly immersed in yoga.
But then I start reading around and begin to wonder if the spiritual aspect is right for me.
What spiritual aspects does yoga assume? That you won’t eat meat, that you have to meditate?
There is a thread in this forum discussing non-violence, granted that is something in and of itself that I need to practice, and vegetarianism. I’m a vegan. I’ve read so much about it that I can’t imagine being any other way. In my eyes, it’s the best thing you can do for yourself, the animals and the planet.
Is that okay in yoga practice or does it require you to eat animals to aid your karma?
What[I] is [/I]the yoga view on karma?
Do I have to be a Buddhist?
Am I too young for people to take me seriously in this?
Where should I go to learn about Ahimsa, asana, etc?
Do all yoga practitioners believe in reincarnation?
I have so many more questions.
I might just need a good book to study, but my confusion is hindering my ability to practice with a clear mind and truly understand what I am doing.
Don’t worry. This might annoy you but at your age, personal karma did not start to manifest itself in it’s full power. That happens after the age of 21. There are exceptions, yet, I think for people of your age, yoga spirituality is not something they need. Young people are still learning and developing themselves in order to grow into this world, while at higher stages of yoga the opposite is needed.
Live your life. Experiment. Learn. Enjoy. Deplete all what is part of human condition. Than, after a few years or decades, you will have the experience level to really know what the yoga teachers, or gurus talk about. It is possible to have data knowledge at this point, you might even be a little genius like Will Hunting, but that does not replace personal expereince. Your personal expereinces are based on your karma, and that needs a lifetime to unfold. Even very advanced yogis often do not see their own karma, because this is the nature of karma, it needs to unfold to us, without we knowing what it is.
AHHHH the great quest! Where do we go from here! First allow me alleviate some of your concerns; you don’t have to believe anything to practice yoga and find spiritual peace.
Yoga is done for many reasons and taken to many different levels. A close friend of mine simply practices yoga for the physical aspect and literally scoffs at the mere mention any deeper spiritual meaning. Others spend lots of time studying the Yoga Surtas or other yoga texts delving deeply into all eight limbs of yoga. Some people eat meat, some don’t, some are Buddhist and some aren’t, some believe in reincarnation and some don’t. Some people will tell you that if you don’t do x y and z in this order you are really not practicing yoga.
So what then is yoga? Yoga is now. The present moment totally and completely where the mind becomes quiet and peace settles. Sometimes I will practice for an hour and never really “do” yoga, its just exercise and others times I “do” yoga pushing my cart though the supermarket.
Personally my spiritual path began when I was only 14 and has changed many times from then to now. I have realized and forgotten many things, and then I realized them all over again! Then I realized something else! Then I forget, life goes on and gratefully visions and experiences fade opening to new ones. This is the path. Currently my yoga is “now”. Everything else matters little to me besides “now”. This is my yoga and I am sure it will change in the future as I realize more and forget some too, this is the fun part lol.
The fact that you even notice something missing from your practice is actually an amazing step. How can it possibly change if you don’t know! In short; read, seek and experience it all. When in doubt just breath.
PS:
“Light on Yoga” is a decent book on yoga if you are interested in furthering your knowledge on the subject.
Welcome to the forum here. I’ll try and respond to the myriad of questions you’ve posed.
First a context from which I can go forward and you can read me. That context is that yoga is a vast body of wisdom. A small sliver of that vastness is asana. I don’t have feelings one way or another about a person doing asana only. However it is just asana and we should not be confused by pop culture or the flavor of the day. This is the seat from where I answer.
Secondly, let me clarify “[B]spiritual aspects[/B]”. This implies the student is making an effort to connect with their soul, source, or essence. Eating meat or meditating (therefore) only becomes spiritual if it is connected to that origin. Otherwise it is merely a behavior. If you are able to connect with your source, know the Self, explore and discover that which lies within you and do those things eating meat and not meditating, rock on girl.
We do however often deceive ourselves into thinking this thing or that thing “helps” us when it is merely an obstacle that we are attached to retaining. So care must be used and a clean, skilled, focused, teacher comes in handy here.
[B]Buddhism[/B] has nothing more to do with yoga than hinduism. Both are nice, both can utilize yoga (and do) but neither IS yoga. So you do not have to be Buddhist and many dedicated students of yoga are not Buddhist. It is neither an aid nor an obstacle.
Some wll take you [B]seriously[/B] others will not. I’m a bot older. Some take me seriously some do not. It does not matter one bit. Take me, leave me.
However younger students are served most deeply when they first have a foundation built in their practice of yoga. That foundation comes from the study of the Yamas and Niyamas. Unfortunately THAT isn’t embraced in western practice and it surely is not precursory to asana. Though I will say it is far more relevant to yoga than asana is.
I can not speak for all student of yoga relative to a belief in [B]reincarnation[/B]. If you do not believe in that or cannot come to grips with such a concept yoga is still possible. Perhaps more challenging (in some ways) but still possible. It would however beg the question of “Penny, what DO you believe about what dwells within you”?
Most of us do not practice with a [B]clear mind[/B] Penny. That is a very lofty desire. I have not achieved it. Some have. Others fool themselves into thinking they have so that they may be recognized by others as being “enlightened”. Please ask your questions and we will try to give you pragmatic, useful answers. That may not, however clear your mind.
Dear Penny, welcome to the forums!
I would like to comment just a small part of your post, just a practice of asanas. It is a difference how you perform a posture. For example: you hear an instruction stretch your leg, and when you are stretching your leg and thinking at the same time about something completely else, than you are performing only leg stretch. But you can also move with the awareness. Feel what happens in your body. That is how you train your mind to concentrate. Notice that you experience what you focus on. So it matters. And when your body is stronger and it has an awareness how to perform a posture , you need less effort. It means it is a bigger chance to quite down. And you can observe the transition from one step into another. How did you find a quite place in yourself. You can use this in everyday life. Small steps that can help you to hear your own intuition that will guide you in your life.
And by the way I think you are great and it is fantastic that you inquire those questions already:-)!
Hi Penny,
Check out the Sivananda yoga vedanta organisation. I dont know where you live but I am sure there will be a centre or ashram in your country. you can attend daily asana classes ,workshops ,talks ,and even live in for a while or longer if you choose. all of your questions about yoga will be answered as every aspect is taught and practiced with sivananda. As for your diet ,well done ! you show trememdous maturity and awareness for somebody so young. Remember we are not human beings trying to be spiritual ,but human beings coping with a human body and existance. I was like you at 17, drifting in and out of practice ,trying differrent teachers and then I discovered the london Sivananda yoga vedanta.that was over twenty years ago and I now teach in the Sivananda tradition.
Good luck on your journey.
Namaste,
Murali.
Don’t worry yourself too much about spirituality. Yours is raging girl. It’s not the goal of practicing yoga, but rather its outcome. It has it’s own time line. If you seek clarity, I also recommend attending a Sivananda program. But if you can’t, start by seeking separation of the science from the philosophy.
Learn about Om and prana, vibration & harmonic resonance of the physical (manifest) world and our bodies, the physiology and anatomy of [B]ha[/B] and [B]tha,[/B] etc., and see, for example, how eating meat is related. How does it effect your level of resonance and that of the world around you? How does diminishing your level of resonance effect your point of reincarnation? Then you’ll assemble a basis for caring and making choices with consciousness. This is being spiritual.
In any case, yoga is a lifetime journey: it comes and goes with the demands of daily life. So don’t judge yourself for quiting. You will probably never quit, but always come back when called.
Eyes and ears open. Mind open. Heart open. Breathe.
Impressed you are thinking about such things at such a young age. I didn't get started with spiritual quest until my forties. Then got burnt out or got enough knowledge and busy with survival or whatever and now just put enough work in spiritual areas once peace starts getting disturbed.
My interest in yoga is for exercise mostly, so cannot answer your question in that regard. And even then my exercise use of yoga is only half ass so no expert.
I do study some of the spiritual aspects of yoga but as an agnostic I only go by fact and not by faith, so I leave karma, god, magic at the door unless it can be proven. But I try to keep an open mind.
Sometimes we can get stuck in a a place of constantly looking and never finding. In short, we can get stuck in a state of "analysis paralysis" with our spiritual studies as well as life in general. We tell ourselves we need to assemble all the facts before we can start and as perfectionists we never seem to have all the facts that allow us to perfectly act.
I had to let go of the notion at being a perfectionist. Other times we get so bombarded with facts and theories that we could never act on all of them anyway. Another issue is that of fear and pleasure. It is much more pleasurable sometimes being a student than having to go out in the world and apply what we have studied for so long.
Always remember, knowledge without application is useless.
Now, Buddhism I have given much study to as well as Christianity. I will share some thoughts on Buddhism with you.
Buddhism has and will always evolve.
Religion evolves from the egos of men.
We should also give credit to the Hindus for the development of Buddhism.
The Buddha was a Hindu acetic before he became a Buddha.
Buddhism is basically Hinduism without the atman or soul.
In the early days Buddhism had no gods and this also distinguished it from Hinduism. But in later generations of Buddhist thought gods were added back into the equation.
99.9% of the Buddhists are just 'playing at Buddhism' and are so far off the road to classical Buddhism that their practice holds little or no resemblance to what the Buddha taught.
After all, what do monks have to do other than beg, eat, sleep, excrete, think, not think (meditate) and write.
It is through this constant need to 'think and write' that the Pali canon grew to 20,000+ pages and nearly 30,000 pages in China.
The canon contains nothing the Buddha wrote down.
It contains a small amount of recitation from his butler Amanda, but nothing original from the Buddha.
The rest is all from the egos of monks.
So it is natural that Buddhism has evolved into a watered down version of itself that the Buddha himself would hardly recognize.
When this classical Buddhism became too hard - Mahayana Buddhism was invented.
When Mahayana Buddhism became too hard - Pure Land Buddhism and Vajrayāna Buddhism was invented
When Pure Land Buddhism and Vajrayāna Buddhism became too hard - Won Buddhism was invented. (just to name a few)
But for the average folks...meaning 99.9% of the Buddhists. Pain is decreased in proportion to your efforts at perfecting the eightfold path.
I believe the traditional views of Buddhist beliefs of escaping samsara are dead as far as practical application for the most part of society. To escape rebirth is impractical for the vast, vast majority of Buddhists.
I'll give you an example you can all relate to.
If you are reading this you have no chance of escaping rebirth...you are too full of passion to escape anything.
What you 'should' be doing as a self proclaimed 'serious Buddhist practitioner' is; instead of reading and writing on the computer you would be meditating on the three liberation's.
By meditating on emptiness, formlessness and passionlessness, this will allow you, with a few lifetimes of diligent practice, to recognize the three liberation's of the ego and the dharma as being empty, the dharma as formless and this eventually the recognition of living is an unworthy desire as our existence is characterized by suffering.
What is the path of classical Buddhism as the Buddha taught?
From our best efforts and deciphering the jumbled mess that was handed down to us it was:
To become a renunciate and practice the 4 noble truths
My main focus of my Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this type of simplified practice.
3 Pillars of Buddhism
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in god, so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof. Buddha was not a god and just a man, so not need to worship him unless you are a 'Pure Land Buddhist.'
In addition to the 3 pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us.
The Eightfold Path
Right View
Right Intention
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong?
By peace.
You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others.
Do you need a teacher for that?
Or the Pope to tell you?
Or just listen to peace as the best teacher?
The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists. Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.
No one to boss you other than you...you alone are in control of your inner peace.
The Five Precepts
Refrain from Killing:
Refrain from Stealing:
Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
Refrain from False Speech:
Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:
Buddhism provides this tool, which is just one out of the many tools I use for peace development. For once we have found a contentment within and with all and are at peace - we are progressing on the road to enlightenment.
You can also tell when you have "arrived" by your practice telling you so. Does your practice revolve around actually practicing what you have learned to generate peace within or are you on a never ending journey of always looking and never finding?
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice.
I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing reincarnation.
These "fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are not authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or negative consequences otherwise they would not do them.
My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice.
I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes about as part of the process.
The Taoists have a saying for this, "fleas come with the dog."
So, I accept there are growth pains as a fair trade off for the privilege of living and I would enjoy any reincarnation if given the chance.
Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
I'd like to point out that my views are not the orthodox or traditional views on these subjects as I am an Agnostic Freethinker.
I was a vegetarian for 20 + years. I ate vegan and raw for a few years and vegan with a mix of raw and cooked vegetables for 15 years with little protein and found it unhealthy in the long run for me. I was a vegan for health reasons and not for spiritual reasons.
I tried DR Arnold Ehret raw diet for a few years and wasted away, then added starchless cooked vegetables but no real sources of protein as I could not digest soy or oily nuts. After 15 years of this I became lacto-ovo vegetarian for 5 years and after 20 years total time of being a vegetarian I started to eat a little animal protein on occasion as my health was deteriorating from living on an unbalanced diet.
Probably if I could digest milk and eggs well, I could have stayed on the vegetables and lacto-ovo diet and done well, but it seems many proteins give my food allergy trouble digesting.
Psychologist William James once said, “A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.” I always tell others if you wish to be vegetarian be one and if you do not wish to be vegetarian, then don’t be one. But in either case, be at peace with your decision and do not harm your health out of some pious conviction that it’s the ‘right thing to do’ when it is not the right thing or right diet for you.
If you wish some enlightenment on the subject of diet, take your cue from the animal kingdom. They know what to eat and they are at peace with what they eat. In fact, they are at peace most of the time as long as they do not come under the control or in close proximity to UN enlightened man.
In Tibet and Mongolia a vegetarian diet is not practical 100% of the time due to harsh climates and Buddhists eat some meat. Theravada practitioners in Asia also eat some meat. Mahayana practitioners developed more of a goal to abstain from meat fully. Black or white all or none thinking is the norm for much of society. All this and none of that. It helps define who we are. Alan Watts used to say we define ourselves by our enemies.
We define ourselves by what we are not. The meat eaters look down on the vegans and the vegans look down on the meat eaters. In Matthew, Jesus is reported to have said, “That which enters into the mouth doesn’t defile the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.” The bible also makes note that the weak among us should be given the right to live on a diet of herbs. I give this same acceptance to those choosing a meat based diet and to these that do not.
Irrespective of meat eater or vegan, an unbalanced diet of excess can be unhealthy. A point that many people miss about vegetarianism is that they can make a part time effort to eat less animal products and still benefit from vegetarianism - they do not have to be a full time vegan or a full time meat eater. If we make an effort to be pointed in the right direction, this is a good start. But we must always remember to accept and live within natural law otherwise humans are subject to the extremes of faddish delusions that “this extreme or that” is the only way to go.
Sustainability and balance are two most important aspects in choosing a healthy diet. If the diet is not sustainable for your lifetime, it is not the right diet for you in the long run. Find a diet that is sustainable as well as healthy. If you have absolutely no idea, see a nutritionist if your too poor for nutritional counseling, model it after the food pyramid. (the old one) We can choose to be on unbalanced, unsustainable diets for the short term, such as an all fruit cleansing diet. But must one day face the facts that balance is the key to peace as well as good health. Nature will always have the final say, not you, not me, not them. We
There is no sure accounting of the death of the Buddha or if he ate meat or not even when we go back to the sources. In general, a monk takes what is given to him when he begs for food. The monk must show gratitude and humility for what is given as a gift to him. As the old saying goes, ‘Beggars Can’t be Choosers’. But a monk must never order the death of an animal to eat.
A local Krishna community has a sign that says "No Animal Products Allowed’ Yet, this same community had the head man jailed for sex and theft crimes. Seems to be a good example how some spiritual minded persons sometimes gets sucked up in minutia that really doesn’t matter, all the while they are blinded to the real things that do cause harm and really do matter. But humans need something to occupy their minds on to avoid thoughts of death and to distract them from the ugly lives that many of them have created for themselves. what else better to concentrate on that simple and basic food? Once you learn to be at peace, such questions as what to eat will not be so hard.
We can see in the below analyses we have to succumb to what sounds better than what actually happened.
"There appears to be two explanations of the Buddha’s cause of death: One is that the Buddha died because his attendant, Ananda, failed to invite him to live on to the age of the world or even longer (D II, 117). The other is that he died by a sudden illness which began after he ate what is known as “Sukaramaddava” (D II, 127-157).
The former story was probably a legend, or the result of a political struggle within the Buddhist community during a stage of transition, whereas the latter sounds more realistic and accurate in describing a real life situation that happened in the Buddha’s last days.
In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, we are told that the Buddha became ill suddenly after he ate a special delicacy, Sukaramaddava, literally translated as “soft pork”, which had been prepared by his generous host, Cunda Kammaraputta.
Subsequently, the Buddha was visited by Mara, the God of Death, who invited him to pass away. The Buddha did not accept the invitation right away. It was only after Ananda, his attendant, failed to recognise his hint for an invitation to remain that he died. This piece of the message, though tied up with myth and supernaturalism, gives us some medically significant information. When the sutta was composed, its author was under the impression that the Buddha died, not because of the food he ate, but because he already had an underlying illness that was serious and acute-and had the same symptoms of the disease that finally killed him.
There are some spiritual extremists that tried to live on water and air alone and even tried to filter the microbes out of the water to return them to their source for fear of killing them by ingesting. This lifestyle is too concentrated in one area and not balanced with accepting the natural and divine order of the universe.
You also see this in some vegetarian extremists that want to turn lions and tigers into vegans as well. They wish to impose “their will” over natures and seem to forget that they do not rule nature - nature rules them. Such people will never find peace as they do not understand how the universe works in the smallest degree. Without learning to accept life on life’s terms, peace will be as illusive as the wind.
Yes, we can always “force” things to fit our desires. But forcing is not conducive to being at peace. Forcing by its very nature means we need to impose “our will” over something else and requires expectations and the development of more attachments, cravings and desires … all peace destroying vehicles. Besides Buddhism I also follow “jus naturale” or natural law as a guide to living and within jus naturale, life and death is part of the natural flow.
