Yoga row between Indian Yogis and Western Yogis

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#48

Yes Terence, that is understood. My reference to my style was my attempt to make my point that one can teach or brand a style, but remain true to 8 limbs.

What gives you the right to brand a style? It is not your original intellectual property to brand it. Yoga is not your intellectual property. Taoism is not your intellectual property. So combining them both to create a hodge podge which is neither here or there, gives you no more right either.

I think this discussion has highlighted how important it is to regulate the Yoga industry to stop the abuse of it and commercialization of it.

#49

[QUOTE=Terence;54089]As an aside,
Taoism is unity between yin and yang, which could be directly compared to union between ha and tha.[/QUOTE]

The similarity is rather superficial. Ying and Yang simply means the masculine and feminine, soft and hard and refers to the world of opposites. There is an exact equivalent in Indian terminology Dvanda(opposites) Hatha, actually means forced Yoga or mechanical Yoga(The Ha meaning sun, and tha meaning moon is a symbolic intepretation) In Hatha Yoga, the body is said to have a lunar and solar channel(Ida and Pingala) which respectively correspond to left and right hemispheres of the brain and left and right nostrils. The purpose of Hatha Yoga is to balance the solar and lunar channels through physical practices in order to awaken the Kundalini at the base of the spine, and cause her to ascend to the head, leading to a total transformation.

This is unique to Hatha Yoga, and is not found in Taoism in the same form or clarity.

New agers have a habit of seeing only a slight similarity and concluding sameness, without actually seeing the critical differences which make something unique.

#50

[QUOTE=The Scales;54113]I do what ever the heck I want - and there’s nothing anyone can do or say about it.

BWHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH.

THE WORLD IS MINES!

They say ‘come up here.’ I say no!

They say ‘do this this way.’ I say No!

They say ‘breath like this.’ I say KISS MY GRITS!

What are they gonna do? Go cry to their mommies?[/QUOTE]

Come here… you need a hug :slight_smile:

#51

Who said I branded yin/yang?

And what give you the right to condemn anyone?

#52

do understand what many eastern philosophies are trying to achieve… but there is another option. When suffering comes along, you can use the opportunity to become a stronger person. You can be an adult and except the hardships of life, and not have such unrealistically high expectations that everything should go exactly how I want it to go.

This is pretty much what these Eastern philosophies teach. Have no expectations, act without expectations. In Hinduism it is called Nishkama karma(dispassionate action) and in Zen Buddhism, Wu-wei(actionless action) Another practice is meditation, whereby one always remains in an equanimous state, indifferent to both pain and pleasure.
But is it easy in practice? Hell no. It is practically impossible to not have expectations. If I want to land a job I really like, I cannot help myself but expect that I get it. If I am with my partner, I cannot help myself but expect that they remain faithful to me. We expect things all the time, sometimes without even realising it. When expectations are not met they lead to disappointments, and then frustration and anger.

Similarly, it is practically impossible to remain in an eqaunimous state. All it takes is one wrong glance from a stranger on the street to disturb it and throw one into anxiety. One rude occurence is enough to produce anger. Getting a disease can ruin peoples lives.
This is why the practice of Yoga was invented in order to develop these skills of living without expectations and living equanimously, in addition to living healthy.

The practice of Yama and Niyama cultivate a balanced ethical life. The practice of Asana improve circulation and flexibility. The practice of Pranayama improves the use of energy in he body. Pratyahara improves one centre. Dharana improves ones ability to concentrate and apply themselves. Dhyana improves ones ability for equanimity, witnessing without reaction.

This is why Yoga is a complete system of body and mind management. Nothing needs to be improved. Rather, it is something that needs to be implemented.

Maybe Buddhism and Hinduism might have something to offer for people experiencing depression, but if you are happy, there’s little value. Hang around with happy people. You may learn that there is a whole different way of living that is free of any strict rules or philosophies, yet is still completely satisfactory.

What you are referring to as happiness is simutaneously sorrow. It is an unstable happiness that depends upon circumstances and people. Tomorrow, if your circumstances changed and the people you love were not there, what you call happiness will quickly turn into sorrow.
As long as the roots remain for suffering, suffering will keep returning. If you experience anger, fear, lust, jealousy, anxiety at any point in your day, then the roots of these impurities remain. As long as they remain they will keep you in the bondage of suffering. If you feel the need to be violent against another person(such as you intimated towards me) you are suffering.

The good news is there is a solution to suffering and that is Yoga. It will deal with physical suffering, mental and emotional suffering and spiritual suffering.

I’m not against Hinduism and Buddhism, and if you feel that your life is missing something, or you don’t feel happy in general, and if eastern philosophy tends to help, than absolutely go for it, and I genuinely hope you do get a lot of benefit from it.

I experience a lot of suffering. At the moment I am experiencing physical suffering because of the health problems I have recently contracted. I have throughout my life suffered a lot of anxiety, especially beginning from the age of 16. Although today this has lessened to a large extent, the roots still remain and can manifest from time to time. The greatest suffering I experience though is spiritual - existential crisis - the need to find out who I am. This one is a real killer, because you experience soul pain.

The only remedy for soul pain is Yoga. This is my next stop.

#53

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54120]The similarity is rather superficial. Ying and Yang simply means the masculine and feminine,
This is unique to Hatha Yoga, and is not found in Taoism in the same form or clarity.

New agers have a habit of seeing only a slight similarity and concluding sameness, without actually seeing the critical differences which make something unique.[/QUOTE]

No Yin (not spelt Ying) and Yang do not simply mean masculine and feminine. If you have no experience studying Daoist arts do not comment on them. Try and research and learn about what you’re talking about. Otherwise you are perceived as ignorant.

#54

I know that they mean hard and soft, and these do connote masculine and femine.

Don’t worry, I already perceive you as ignorant :wink:

#55

[QUOTE=omamana;54111]You grew up in England (‘the West’) and still live there, and you don’t even practice asana…or at least that was the case a few months ago.

So I ask, where is your place to comment?[/QUOTE]

Surya Deva, I would also be interested in hearing the answer to this. If you can as you say in your words, understand why everyone hates the west, then why do you choose to live in what you perceive as ‘the west?’ Why do you come onto a ‘western’ forum and speak a ‘western’ language?

Or you could ask, why do you split humanity into ‘east’ and ‘west’ in the first place?

#56

http://www.visionsofheaven.com/articles_docs/ARyinyang.html

The yin/yang symbol is a metaphor for the constant dance between the masculine and feminine energies within each one of us. Yin is the female energy, the intuitive, receptive, nurturing side of ourselves that is in connection with the Divine. Yin is the energy that yields to the forces around it, flowing, and smooth -- the force that allows a seed to germinate in winter and makes water flows smoothly around a stone in the creek.

Yang is the masculine energy -- the strong, action-oriented, forceful side of ourselves that gets things accomplished. Yang is the force that makes a seed sprout in the spring and makes strong flowing water move or sculpt the stones in a creek.

In Chinese philosophy, the concept of yin yang (simplified Chinese: 阴阳; traditional Chinese: 陰陽; pinyin: yīny?ng), normally referred to in the West as yin and yang) is used to describe how polar or seemingly contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, and how they give rise to each other in turn. Opposites thus only exist in relation to each other. The concept lies at the origins of many branches of classical Chinese science and philosophy, as well as being a primary guideline of traditional Chinese medicine,[1] and a central principle of different forms of Chinese martial arts and exercise, such as baguazhang, taijiquan (tai chi), and qigong (Chi Kung) and of I Ching divination. Many natural dualities—e.g. dark and light, female and male, low and high, cold and hot— are thought of as manifestations of yin and yang (respectively).

You owe me an apology sir :wink:

#57

QUOTE I experience a lot of suffering. At the moment I am experiencing physical suffering because of the health problems I have recently contracted. I have throughout my life suffered a lot of anxiety, especially beginning from the age of 16. QUOTE

And the thing is SD, until you learn to release hatred and stop putting the human race in little categories, you’re always going to be sick.

Everyone experiences hatred form time to time, but unless you rise above it and refuse to indulge in it, you’re always going to be ill. Next thing you know you’re a bitter old man who spent his whole life hating, who said ‘its all their fault’ and gave his power away.

You can blame the ‘west’ or the ‘north’ or even the ‘south of south east’ for the way you feel, or you can take a big step towards health and start to take responsibility for the way you feel.

#58

Well there’s a new yoga style now in the West… Intel inside! I still like the same ol’ Kapalbhati.

I feel what ppl might hate most about the West is not the progressive attitude but the rebellious attitude!

#59

[QUOTE=Terence;54150]I experience a lot of suffering. At the moment I am experiencing physical suffering because of the health problems I have recently contracted. I have throughout my life suffered a lot of anxiety, especially beginning from the age of 16.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if your health permits you to, but if you are able to exercise vigorously, I would suggest this, if your not doing so already. Exercise is phenomenal for managing anxiety.

#60

That was actually a quote from Surya Deva, but thanks for the advice!

#61

Since 1971 I?ve found exposure to yoga, Buddhism and Hinduism bringing me an overall sense of well being. I don?t have a guru so I pick and choose parts that interest me, which leads to more picking and choosing, as long as I feel it progressing in a positive direction I?ll keep exploring. I am conscious of western culture trying to cash in and find it overwhelming the expediential rate of interest over the last 10 years compared to the first 10 years. It?s become more complicate, so many voices where there use to be few.

#62

You are making far too many assumptions. I never said I hate the West. I did say that a lot of non-Western cultures hate the West because of its arrogance and disrespect towards others cultures.

Or you could ask, why do you split humanity into ‘east’ and ‘west’ in the first place?

Culture makes you human, without culture you are an animal. Your humanity depends on what kind of culture you have been raised in. You could have been unfortunate and raised in a cannibal society, and therefore you will lack humanity. Similarly, you may have been born in a mafia.

There are distinct differences in being born in an Eastern culture and a Western culture in the type of values you will develop, your ways of thinking and being, your attitudes etc. Generally, though not always true, if you are born in a Western culture you are individualistic and selfish. You incalculate values like conflict and competition as natural, and thus you see systems of exploitation like capitalism as natural and wars and invasions as natural. Life is about struggle of individuals and groups for things. Power and pleasure are very important values in Western culture.

In contrast, if you are born in an Eastern culture you are collectivist and selfless. You incalculate values like maintaining harmony and social order, and see everything in tems of its functional value. There is no higher or lower, everything has its function to play. Life is about attaining the highest level of harmony personally and interpersonally. Education is a very important value in Eastern cultures and teachers, masters, sages are highly respected.

Eastern culture is obviously closer to making you truly human than Western culture. So of course not all humans in all parts of the world are the same, some are more human than others.

#63

There’s a navy expression.
‘Dead man’s grip.’

#64

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54164]
Eastern culture is obviously closer to making you truly human than Western culture. So of course not all humans in all parts of the world are the same, some are more human than others.[/QUOTE]

Both the cultures promote humanism. Actually, I think Western culture is more materialistic. The Western culture questions everything… good for progress, bad for values.

#65

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54166]Both the cultures promote humanism. Actually, I think Western culture is more materialistic. The Western culture questions everything… good for progress, bad for values.[/QUOTE]

How is asking questions bad for values? I would think it promoted sound values.

#66

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;54167]How is asking questions bad for values? I would think it promoted sound values.[/QUOTE]

True. Certain values are more orthodox, but necessary (well might seem necessary) to preserve culture. These values might not fair well when subject to questions. It depends what one means by sound values. Sound value to one might be blasphemous or inappropriate to the other!

Liberalism is a sound value, but without limits it could be detrimental, one might question customs and would not know where to draw the line… everything & anything goes…

#67

Ever considered the evolution and progression of one universal culture with no illusion of division?