Yoga row between Indian Yogis and Western Yogis

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#62

You are making far too many assumptions. I never said I hate the West. I did say that a lot of non-Western cultures hate the West because of its arrogance and disrespect towards others cultures.

Or you could ask, why do you split humanity into ‘east’ and ‘west’ in the first place?

Culture makes you human, without culture you are an animal. Your humanity depends on what kind of culture you have been raised in. You could have been unfortunate and raised in a cannibal society, and therefore you will lack humanity. Similarly, you may have been born in a mafia.

There are distinct differences in being born in an Eastern culture and a Western culture in the type of values you will develop, your ways of thinking and being, your attitudes etc. Generally, though not always true, if you are born in a Western culture you are individualistic and selfish. You incalculate values like conflict and competition as natural, and thus you see systems of exploitation like capitalism as natural and wars and invasions as natural. Life is about struggle of individuals and groups for things. Power and pleasure are very important values in Western culture.

In contrast, if you are born in an Eastern culture you are collectivist and selfless. You incalculate values like maintaining harmony and social order, and see everything in tems of its functional value. There is no higher or lower, everything has its function to play. Life is about attaining the highest level of harmony personally and interpersonally. Education is a very important value in Eastern cultures and teachers, masters, sages are highly respected.

Eastern culture is obviously closer to making you truly human than Western culture. So of course not all humans in all parts of the world are the same, some are more human than others.

#63

There’s a navy expression.
‘Dead man’s grip.’

#64

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54164]
Eastern culture is obviously closer to making you truly human than Western culture. So of course not all humans in all parts of the world are the same, some are more human than others.[/QUOTE]

Both the cultures promote humanism. Actually, I think Western culture is more materialistic. The Western culture questions everything… good for progress, bad for values.

#65

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54166]Both the cultures promote humanism. Actually, I think Western culture is more materialistic. The Western culture questions everything… good for progress, bad for values.[/QUOTE]

How is asking questions bad for values? I would think it promoted sound values.

#66

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;54167]How is asking questions bad for values? I would think it promoted sound values.[/QUOTE]

True. Certain values are more orthodox, but necessary (well might seem necessary) to preserve culture. These values might not fair well when subject to questions. It depends what one means by sound values. Sound value to one might be blasphemous or inappropriate to the other!

Liberalism is a sound value, but without limits it could be detrimental, one might question customs and would not know where to draw the line… everything & anything goes…

#67

Ever considered the evolution and progression of one universal culture with no illusion of division?

#68

[QUOTE=Terence;54172]Ever considered the evolution and progression of one universal culture with no illusion of division?[/QUOTE]

Easier said than done. That is not practically possible. Even two fingers on the same hand are not identical. Both our eyes appear identical, but if you go into detail, they are not! It is very difficult to assume a universal culture. Western concept of yoga is different from the East.

#69

There will only be one universal culture on this planet when dharmic culture gains hegemony. Today, the dominant culture is Western based on Abrahamic ideology. This culture is inclusive and competitive. We can never have a univeral culture while Western culture is dominant on this planet, this because Western culture is based on division/exploitation/competition/inequality.

With dharmic culture we can have a universal culture. As dharmic culture is collectivist and needs all individuals in the world to cooperate to ensure harmony of the world. Everybody plays their function to ensure the greater good of the planet. Capital is distributed as per needs and shared by everybody. In dharmic culture everybody is recognised as a soul and thus society is geareds towards the development and betterment of everybody.

#70

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54166]Both the cultures promote humanism. Actually, I think Western culture is more materialistic. The Western culture questions everything… good for progress, bad for values.[/QUOTE]

Well, yes it is true Western culture is more materialistic.

Asking questions is not a bad thing, this is actually true in Eastern culture as well. However, in the West everything is questioned for the sheer sake of questioning, and not out of any sincere desire to come to the truth. This is what is sometimes referred to as the postmodern crisis of Western civilisation. Thus it is a society that is fragmenting because it cannot recognise any unity of anything.

Likewise, it does the same with cultural forms adopted from other cultures. It cannot respect the unity of it, so it ends up breaking it up into parts, recombining them and adding other things, without any limits. The key problem here is the West lacks respect for anything. Everything here is defiled.

The kind of humanism that Western society promotes is material humanism. A society where everybody can have materials. In contrast, Eastern humanism is spiritual humanism, where everybody can be made more divine, sagely and enlightened.

#71

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54189]
The kind of humanism that Western society promotes is material humanism. A society where everybody can have materials. In contrast, Eastern humanism is spiritual humanism, where everybody can be made more divine, sagely and enlightened.[/QUOTE]

For overall emancipation of humanity, both humanisms have to work in tandem.

#72

I prefer the saying 'Easier done than said.'
Here in London we have people of many races living together, born together and facing the same struggles.
My Indian and British parents had no problem evolving beyond the illusion of racial barriers in the name of love. And that was back in the '70’s.
The two fingers on your hand are different are different in order for your hand to work.
You yourself have an excellent grasp of English, you do not have trouble in communicating with other humans from a different geographical location.

Swami Vishnu Devananda, an exponent of true Indian culture, believed strongly in melting the barriers of human racial division, in order for harmony to take place. He had no issues with allowing yoga to evolve, in order to embrace all of humanity. May I suggest you study his work.

#73

[QUOTE=Terence;54195]Here in London we have people of many races living together, born together and facing the same struggles…[/QUOTE]

True, physically they may stay together, but mentally they might not be comfortable!

[QUOTE=Terence;54195]no issues with allowing yoga to evolve, in order to embrace all of humanity[/QUOTE]

Evolution should not be at the cost of purity. Twisting of yogic practices as per one’s own whim & fancy would generally do more harm than good.

#74

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54151]Well there’s a new yoga style now in the West… Intel inside! I still like the same ol’ Kapalbhati.

I feel what ppl might hate most about the West is not the progressive attitude but the rebellious attitude![/QUOTE]

Buddha was a rebel.
:sunglasses:

#75

[QUOTE=The Scales;54201]Buddha was a rebel.
8-)[/QUOTE]
Scales I thought you hated emoticons ?
As apparently were yogis of old , living outside of society , away from norms , convention , living in the jungle copying the animals , tapping into something. There are a few still at it :eek:

#76

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54194]For overall emancipation of humanity, both humanisms have to work in tandem.[/QUOTE]

Eastern humanism, includes the betterment of the material conditions of humanity as well. Remember, India was the wealthiest country in the world from 1AD to 10AD by a huge margin. It was a massive exporter of textiles, spices, steel, medicines, ships, handicrafts, wool, clothing, diamonds and gems, perfumes, incense, ivory. Indian people were very well off.

The difference was Indian production was dharmic. India never tried to exploit its trading partners. It provided high quality good at cheap prices in a free market economy internationally. Western production is adharmic, it is based on exploiting your trading partner, providing them goods produced cheaply at expensive prices. It is based on foul play and chocking of your competition.

Again, the same theme repeats. Western culture is based on conflict, competition, exploitation, inequality and individualism. It would not know dharma even if it bit it on its ass :smiley:

#77

[QUOTE=charliedharma;54203]Scales I thought you hated emoticons ?
As apparently were yogis of old , living outside of society , away from norms , convention , living in the jungle copying the animals , tapping into something. There are a few still at it :eek:[/QUOTE]

just this one > :wink:
and only at certain times.

And yes apparently the Rebels / Jedis were the yogis of old, and also - james dean.

and yes some are still at it (actually i would say many) - perhaps the locations have changed from the solitude of jungles and caves to among us - right here - inorder to better do their work.

#78

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54136]
I experience a lot of suffering. At the moment I am experiencing physical suffering because of the health problems I have recently contracted. I have throughout my life suffered a lot of anxiety, especially beginning from the age of 16. Although today this has lessened to a large extent, the roots still remain and can manifest from time to time. The greatest suffering I experience though is spiritual - existential crisis - the need to find out who I am. This one is a real killer, because you experience soul pain.

The only remedy for soul pain is Yoga. This is my next stop.[/QUOTE]

The Push of the Lash…

around the age of 29 is when it starts happening. This both my personal experience and words I’ve read from ‘good’ authority.

Carry on. Don’t wait about till you stumble upon a guru. All the pertinent teachings are available. Your smart and knowledgeable. Design your own sadhana.

#79

[QUOTE=b.shahvir;54197]True, physically they may stay together, but mentally they might not be comfortable![/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, the comments on this thread have led me to understand why Indians and tourists are kept apart in Indian ashrams.

This is a shame for my Indian friends who would never speak so rudely and ignorantly about someones parents.

#80

They are kept apart because Westerners lack respect for other cultures, do not have the courtesy to respect other cultures and their civil codes. We all know how unpopular British tourists are in other countries, and the mayhem they cause there. In India, Western people end up going to places like Goa, boozing and smoking ganja, and harrassing the locals.

In places like Thailand, Western people routintely go there and explot men, women and children there. I was rather shamlessly told by my British friend how he went to Thialand, and bedded Thai woman one after the other.

This is the story of the West vis-a-vis other cultures: exploit, exploit and exploit. Like I said, it is not suprisingly how much the West is hated in the world.

No need fighting with me, I am telling you facts about how Western people are perceived by the rest of the people of this world. Go over to my thread “Hindu persecution and ending it” in the religion forum to see exactly how depraved Western cultural intercourse(or rape) has been.
The West is a civilisation condemned by its history. Eventually, they are going to have to learn that with so much hatred they are allowing to brew from people in the world, they are going to be in deep trouble. They need to amend their ways now and stop exploiting other cultures and learn to cultivate respect - orthewise they will not only be a people condemned by history, but a people condemned by the future.

#81

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54266]They are kept apart because Westerners lack respect for other cultures, do not have the courtesy to respect other cultures and their civil codes. We all know how unpopular British tourists are in other countries, and the mayhem they cause there. In India, Western people end up going to places like Goa, boozing and smoking ganja, and harrassing the locals.

In places like Thailand, Western people routintely go there and explot men, women and children there. I was rather shamlessly told by my British friend how he went to Thialand, and bedded Thai woman one after the other.

This is the story of the West vis-a-vis other cultures: exploit, exploit and exploit. Like I said, it is not suprisingly how much the West is hated in the world.

No need fighting with me, I am telling you facts about how Western people are perceived by the rest of the people of this world. Go over to my thread “Hindu persecution and ending it” in the religion forum to see exactly how depraved Western cultural intercourse(or rape) has been.
The West is a civilisation condemned by its history. Eventually, they are going to have to learn that with so much hatred they are allowing to brew from people in the world, they are going to be in deep trouble. They need to amend their ways now and stop exploiting other cultures and learn to cultivate respect - orthewise they will not only be a people condemned by history, but a people condemned by the future.[/QUOTE]

SD - If you are just going to post nonsense after nonsense then participation in your discussions will fall off, and as is typical with many of your discussions, a debate between you and one other poor soul.

There are as many idiots living in India that are praticing Hindi as there are idiot Westerners. There as as many exploitive Hindi living in India, and abroad, as there are exploitive Westerners. There are as many honest, spiritual Hindi living in India and abroad as there are honest, spiritual Westerners - even some who visit India.