Yoga sutras II, 15 THE FIVE KLESHAS ? TYPES OF PAIN

Yoga Discussion Structural Yoga Therapy
#1

[b]II, 15 parinama tapa samskara dukhaih guna vritti virdohat ca duhkham eva sarvam vivekinah

To the discriminating person
all actions result only in pain.
This pain can arise as a
direct consequence of an action,
in the form of
anguish from unfulfilled desires
and torment from the unwanted
or as a subliminal impression.
Pain can also arise as
a conflict
between thoughts, vacillations
and the primal
natural forces of desire. [/b]

M. Stiles

Swami Shyam explains that there are 4 types of pain that result from action.

  1. ?Pain that is felt as a direct result of an action? For example, the action of overeating when presented with delicious food. Initially, this action brings pleasure but then culminates in pain when indigestion sets in. If one persists in overeating, then diseases will result which will also bring pain. A second example is the continual performance of an action that brings pleasure to the point of exhaustion where one cannot enjoy anymore. Finally when one cannot perform the action, then one will feel pain from the deprivation.

  2. ?Pain as a result of imagination?. Swami Satchidananda explains that this is the pain that results from fear of loss of the pleasure. He gives the example of someone who becomes rich by investing in the stock market. The person is happy when the stocks are up but then they begin to worry that it may go down…so then they are tense until the next report. In this case, he is not truly enjoying his riches because he is afraid that he will lose his money.

  3. ?Pain as a result of memory.? This is the pain that results from the loss of pleasure. For example the person that loses his money will be sad and disappointed each time he remembers his former lifestyle.

  4. Pain that arises from the imbalance of the three gunas. For example, ? If one enjoys because of the predominance of sattva, but then rajas arouses adverse thoughts or tamas brings on dullness or sleep, then he will feel pain? (p.59)

Swami Satchidananda counsels that the solution is to become detached from the world. This is not advice to run away but rather to enjoy the presence of pleasure but also enjoy their departure ? to not be attached to the pleasures. he cautions against running away from the world because it will only follow. ?The world is a training place where we learn to use the world without getting attached…A person with such an understanding has the magic wand to convert everything into happiness. Pleasure and pain are but the outcome of your approach. The same world can be heaven or hell.? ( p. 102)

Swami Satchidananda. The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Buckingham, VA: Integral Yoga Publications. 2004

Stiles, M. Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Boston, MA: Red Wheel/Weiser LLC. 2002

Swami Shyam, Patanjali Yog Darshan, India: International Meditation Institute, 2001, 3rd. edition.

#2

I suppose then if we are feeling pain, we could examine our actions carefully and see whether there is attachment to an object or idea or memory… and perhaps by letting go, we can ease the pain.

In examining my life, I have identified several pains and their causes:

  1. the persistence of discomfort in my right hip is the result of not having a consistent practice which is the result of my attachment to an old pattern of behavioural conditioning.
  2. the exhaustion from work stems from my attachment to the pleasure of completing a task as well as the attachment to the idea of perfection. The pleasure in completing a task to perfections drives me to work beyond my capacities.
  3. not having a consistent practice also contributes to the imbalance of the gunas.

Now it is time to take action (again) and hope that this time I have the strength and courage to be my best friend and not my worst enemy…

#3

When I look to the snow covered mountains in the distance, I am overwhelmed by their beauty. The beauty lies in their distance and the grandour of the sight.
If we manage to create the same distance from ourselves and our closest things, the same awe arises.

#4

Where there are kindness, humility and purity, there spiritualitysprings up,
saintliness shines, divinity descends and [U]perfection[/U] manifests itself.
Swami Sivananda

I find showing kindness to myself the most difficult. :mad:

I continually work at savouring/enjoying the journey in the NOW!
? Not easy, but once in a while you experience it ? like when you observe
the beauty of nature, it touches you deeply but the moment the mind
"kicks in" its gone? :stuck_out_tongue:

We do our duty (Dharma) serving others gaining little joys knowing full well they also are ephemeral.

Discipline (to keep the gunas in balance) becomes a practice which then becomes a satvic way of life ?

Wish you well in your Sadhana.
Love
Fin

#5

Now this is where the trouble lies. Natural forces of desire. What does this mean ? It does not sound good, not at all. Nature is so powerful …
Rethorical question:
How can I possibly prevail against such a foe ?
Answer: By the superhuman effort of sadhana

#6

In fact these forces cannot be conquered by an ordinary man… The sutra talks about the conflict between thoughts and these powerful forces. (when you know what is right, but you are compelled to do the opposite, and the resulting struggle is painful) This conflict is the one to be eliminated, and not the the natural forces of desire, as the latter is possible only on ceirtan levels of samadhi.

#7

[QUOTE=Hubert;8025]Now this is where the trouble lies. Natural forces of desire. What does this mean ? It does not sound good, not at all. Nature is so powerful …
Rethorical question:
How can I possibly prevail against such a foe ?
Answer: By the superhuman effort of sadhana[/QUOTE]

Dear Hubert,
I can almost hear the dismay…but I wonder if the natural forces of desires are “foes” that require “superhuman effort” to resist. Perhaps it may be informative to examine the true, deeper source and not the apparent, superficial source of such desires.

I suppose I am learning that in between resistance/suppression and indulgence is a neutral state of acceptance which must be equanimity, neither wanting or hating.

To quote Swami Satchidananda ?The world is a training place where we learn to use the world without getting attached…A person with such an understanding has the magic wand to convert everything into happiness. Pleasure and pain are but the outcome of your approach. The same world can be heaven or hell.?

May you too find peace through any pain you suffer.

#8

[quote=lavina;8055]Dear Hubert,
I can almost hear the dismay…but I wonder if the natural forces of desires are “foes” that require “superhuman effort” to resist. Perhaps it may be informative to examine the true, deeper source and not the apparent, superficial source of such desires.
[/quote] I know it did sound dramatic, hence the second post. But what is that true, deeper source ? I know a lot of answers to this question, all of them out of my reach right now.

I suppose I am learning that in between resistance/suppression and indulgence is a neutral state of acceptance which must be equanimity, neither wanting or hating.

But if you are still uncapable of equanimity, resistance/supression is still way better than indulgence as indulgence creates further karma, while resistance just conserves what has been built up, and it also helps to develop your will and patience.

#9

For myself, I am beginning to understand that perhaps suppression/resistance may not necessarily be a “better” way because this action can still be harmful to myself. For example, my desire for perfectionism in my actions. On the surface, what harm does this desire create…I simply want to do things in the right way…and I have chosen to believe this explanation of this desire. Lately as I have been reflecting on these sutras, I have finally acquired sufficient courage to examine the source of this perfection desire…as it turns out, it is not simply a benign desire to do things the right way…actually it was a way to not address the unworthy and imperfect aspects of me. The ego wanted to suppress these less than perfect aspects and go through great lengths to create the illusion of perfection. Now i am currently simply sitting with these unworthy imperfect aspects, I no longer can suppress them…they are as much a part of me as the wonderful , positive aspects…all are sitting side by side begrudgingly but moving towards peaceful coexistence. And slowly the desire for perfectionism in all that I do is fading and I am feeling less exhausted and more comfortable…

This was the experience that I was thinking of
a. when I made the suggestion of examining the deeper source of a desire
b. why I now am beginning to look closely what and why I am suppressing or resisting
c. why I think that suppression may also be harmful for myself

Thank you for providing the opportunity to clarify this for myself :slight_smile:

#10

I was so argumentative because I was bewildered by my own drama. :slight_smile: But I can smile at it, now, and this is a huge improvement.
Supression, resistance is not better, because you are bound by it just as by indulgence. It means your attention, awarness is turned towards a particular weakness. This is never wise as it is enough the lack of a fraction of a second in awarness and the supressed energies burst through. So it does not avoid, but just postpones the buildup of further unwanted karma. This way, supression just buys you a little time … to get over the particular issue must not being supressed, but neglected.
This requires that ones attention, awarness is turned towards something else, perhaps something positive, something what brings not rajasic, but sattwic “joy” … peace.

I never stop to be amazed how much the level of physical and moral vitality (yama and niyama) counts in dealing with our vasanas and samskaras. A perfect practice is an invulnerable armor of the soul, but because we are not perfect practicants, some blows pierce it, and might even damage it. This way we learn where it was badly tailored, and we are able patch it up accordingly.
There is no victory without bruises, I guess. :slight_smile: