Yoga Teacher Issue

In yoga classes teachers read about spirituality on how to live your life. it is usually nice, however without naming names I was once in yoga class where a the teacher did something like this reading and told about how yoga was about peace and finding one’s inner nature and equanimity, but then the teacher went on and metioned how the Israeli Jews did not follow this and how the Jews invades and terrorizes the Palestinian villages and the violence went against peace and equanimity. the teacher went on and mentioned how the Jews control the media and the world causing trouble everywhere. The teacher then mentioned how Zionism and the Talmud went against the sanscript and yoga principles. I know yoga is supposed to be more about the physical practice and should be mental and spritual and you should apply this in your daily life but I found these comments rather disturbing.

Having mentioend all this, My question to all of you is what are your opinions and thoughts on yoga teachers who use the yoga philosophy in order to manipulate or at least try to influence their student’s political views and attempt to sway their attitudes/convictions towards certain ethnic groups? I need your thoughts on this topic. If you could get back to me on this issue i would Appreciate it . Thanks!!!

fascfoo – All teachers are in a position of trust. No one should abuse the trust given them. Similarly in this case I trust you to have wholly represented the situation you are asking about – that the teacher volunteered these words freely, and was not coerced into these expressions, and there was no mitigating context. (For instance, if this teacher were quoting someone else as an example of hatred, that’s different.)

Spelling out one’s own complaints about another person (or worse yet, a generalized people) is a poor way to advise individual persons how to live.

The complaints this person voiced are poisonous and lack historical evidence that justifies the specificity of the target.

I ask you not to return to this teacher, or to any studio/establishment that willingly employs this teacher.

As in, please balance this teacher’s freedom to speak with your freedom of association.

Hello Fascfoo
I am in no way an expert on anything to do with Yoga teachers but I can see this is clearly wrong.
Cultivating the a right mind of compassion, understanding and forgiveness is so important…it appears this teacher has forgotten the basics. And as Techne has commented…the place that employs this person is also in question.

I think its really good that you have noticed this…it appears that your mindset is ahead of this teachers at this present time The teacher is, hopefully, going through a temporary bout of temptation that they are not dealing with…they are human after all and the strive to keep ones mind in a bright clear space will definitely be tested at times.

Perhaps you could treat this as a private exercise in compassion, if everything else they are teaching is correct. Perhaps you could ask this teacher about what type of mindset you should cultivate-it might help them.

Kindest Regards Kareng

well one person who i talked about the issue is that while those comments went too far, they say real world issues come up and it is only an application of a yoga philosophy to real world issues. Have you heard of the Christian religious right? Just how the christian right campaigns to end abortion. Something like that . Some people say it is similar to that which applying these yoga theories to the real world.

Hello Fascfoo

I think that if one is planning to become active/do something about, real world issues then raising them in the right setting, would be necessary …but I am finding it hard to understand its place in the situation you are in. If this is a regular kind of practice in yoga…I still find it difficult to accept as correct.

Raising tragic world issues and echoing the rights and wrongs of them when one is not actively involved to correct them is a set of unnecessary thoughts.

Whatever is said on these sessions cannot have any impact in Israel, Palestine etc…
So therefore I think it is unnecessary .

Kind Regards Kareng

Yes, we need to apply our philosophy to what we think and say about real world issues.

That could easily lead a person pursuing a yogic philosophy to express sorrow about the actions of (almost any) nation, and could increase the resolve of a person to not embody that which brings suffering into the world, that they see so clearly in the actions of the specific nation.

The statements you represent here aren’t expressing sorrow or self-directed intent, however. They are judgments about a people. They are also sufficiently broad, and sufficiently similar to Goebbels’ rhetoric, to question whether your teacher has studied the situation at all.

I can definitely see some yoga classes (although perhaps not asana classes) being set up to include discussion of current events, even with the deliberate intention of provoking anger in some of the members all of the time, but I’ll let you tell me if that was ‘part of the deal’ when you joined the class. For instance, fair treatment of current events should involve discussion, give and take. Has this teacher created an environment where a student has time and space to respectfully rebut the teacher’s assertions without detracting from the purpose of the class? Because that’s what current events need to be a useful tool of instruction. Give someone a hammer, but no room to swing it, and they don’t learn anything about physics.

This is most unfortunate _ I’m very sorry you had to experience this.

In my humble opinion, a yoga teacher should promote peace and compassion. In any conflict, the only side we should support is the side of peace.

Hello everyone,

Yoga teachers are people no different from anyone else. Don’t put them on a pedestal and they will not fail to live up to your expectations. Take responsibility for your own learning. Take what you need and leave the rest alone.

SIVA

Go ahead - name names!
This is proof that any moron can get in front of a bunch of people and put you through the motions he/she calls yoga.
Find another teacher. It’s worth it.

[QUOTE=fascfoo;25566]My question to all of you is what are your opinions and thoughts on yoga teachers who use the yoga philosophy in order to manipulate or at least try to influence their student’s political views and attempt to sway their attitudes/convictions towards certain ethnic groups? I need your thoughts on this topic. If you could get back to me on this issue i would Appreciate it . Thanks!!![/QUOTE]

I suppose that yoga has become so mainstream that it’s not a far stretch to imagine politicized groups at organized retreats, etc., incorporating yoga practice to kick-off a day’s agenda of sharing views. In that event, influencing would be part of the game.

But, in a general setting I would be turned-off in a big way if my instructor started spouting off along ethnic or political lines. That would also be the case in my cooking class, business coaching, client meeting…

Flexpenguin thread Go ahead - name names!
This is proof that any moron can get in front of a bunch of people and put you through the motions he/she calls yoga.
Find another teacher. It’s worth it.

Ha…this is funny…I like your directness

Kareng laughing


Fascfoo,

I’d like to separate out what I believe are the two issues your post illustrates.
The first is “What is the nature of Yoga philosophy and how are we, as students, to live it?” while the second is “What behavior may or may not be appropriate for a yoga professional?”.

That first issue is very broad and open, as Yoga should be. However that must be tempered with the fact that some, perhaps many, misinterpret the texts, opt to learn them on their own thus lending their own coloring, or gravitate to a “guru” who has not themselves done the work. There is a great emphasis on memorizing the sutras - for example - but not on living them, which to me if far more important than rote memorization.

Still other people are unable to bring the messages of the sacred texts together into a cohesive application and, of course, there are built-in falsehoods in some of those texts, which was common to protect the integrity of the wisdom in the day in which they were conceived/created/authored/shared.

Just as it can be inappropriate for the teacher you mention to judge others so too can it be inappropriate for us to bear judgement on him/her. Our job is to be universally compassionate, not just compassionate to those for whom it is easy to be compassionate toward. However that does not mean one must continue to study with that person. There are several teachers who’s public and semi-public behaviors indicate to me they are not the right person to guide me - but they have very large and loyal followings.

And this brings us into the second question. What I see in the behavior of yoga teachers is the efficacy of their practice. Yoga does not make better people it merely makes them more of what they are which is why some teachers are flaming ego maniacs. Furthermore, a yoga practice that is unguided, poorly guided, does not include meditation, with a teacher who has not or is not doing the work…well that sort of practice has a certain residue. This can be seen in the students when you go to a large conference.

Many of these teachers I mention above are not living what they teach, are allowing their lives to be guided by the vital or mental force rather than the heart center, and are injuring both themselves and their students both overtly and subtly.

One final point. We are all one, all the same, all light. The attachment to a right and a wrong is an attachment to dogmatic thinking (more ego) and there cannot be any peace when we make one side right and one side wrong. It seems this is the concept the teacher in question has yet to learn. Politics in class? When appropriate. Discernment, always. The job of a yoga teacher may be to stir up the thought process of the student.

I believe our mission as students - when seeking a teacher - is to find one that can provide us a clear look at ourselves. This is the difference between having a sound teacher and practicing at home. When we have a sound teacher we can be guided through the Kleshas, through our own ignorance and ego. When we have an unsound teacher, or none at all, these things can grow and further obscure our evolution.

gordon

Techne …what do you and all think?

“That could easily lead a person pursuing a yogic philosophy to express sorrow about the actions of (almost any) nation, and could increase the resolve of a person to not embody that which brings suffering into the world, that they see so clearly in the actions of the specific nation”

But wouldn’t it be better to teach (especially beginners) people not to contemplate what they cannot change/are not involved with…and to start in ones own small (perhaps) localized life to contemplate and practice compassion, empathy, forgiveness etc…

I feel as empty a mind as possible…limited to your local problems might be aimed at first.
then, everywhere else is automatically responded to in the same compassionate manner.

But I truly believe in the minimalisation (such a long word ha…) of what you what your mind is processing…

I am a bit surprised that Yoga classes may contain this approach…is it the best approach to the very difficult mastery of compassion for example.?

If all life is suffering-dealing correctly with what is local to you only should be enough.

If a person were on a island by themselves with no information about the rest of the world…could they attain enlightenment?

Forgive me…(but you can still tell me off) I have never attended a Yoga class

Kindest Regards Kareng

I have firm beleive that yoga launch out peace and kindness , if someone letting out hatrad in class ,it disturb my sense greatly, I will never return to the same teacher again.

But wouldn’t it be better to teach (especially beginners) people not to contemplate what they cannot change/are not involved with…and to start in ones own small (perhaps) localized life to contemplate and practice compassion, empathy, forgiveness etc…

kareng, we are all connected and people CAN change that which they are not geographically close to. Which I believe is what you mean with this statement. Practicing those elements that you mention has a ripple effect and will touch many, not just those in direct contact with you.

This is slightly off topic and I apologize, but this seems to have morphed into a philosophy argument.

Acceptance of each being is key. fascfoo, your teacher has flaws as do we all. Does he/she inspire you in other ways? Is it worth staying for those reasons? If you feel so strongly that what this person has said is wrong then as Techne suggested you should find another teacher to guide you. Accept they are not the right one for you and move on. I think there has been a lesson even in this for you though.

No teacher is perfect. No one philosophy is perfect.

Well, in my first yoga school we recieved pamphlets about cionism and francmasonries strive for world domination. (In second year, not up front) I really could not take it that seriously. Just to the level of my interest in yoga, which was not very deep. But this does not coun’t as I am bit phlegmatic, so I usually do not let things touch me. Indeed one of my life’s ralization is that I became more open, even though for such as me, that is more painful (at least precieved as such) than for others. The phlegmatic people tend to be ruled by their glandular nature, by their vital nature, thus they are often more interested in their own life processes and inner life than the sanguinic ones, in whom the astral (desire) body is predominant. (pranomaya and manomaya koshas respectiveley) Anyway, I digress. Point is that if you are more sanguinic, you will always be drawn into the happenings of the outer world. And to the level of your understanding, this will be percieved as comfortable, or not. Having interest for the outer world is not bad at all, but we need to comprehend it, understand it. And here, the role of a teacher would be essential. Remember, we talk about how you relate to the world, not about a general worldview. That you gain by education, a more or less correct one. But the role of the teacher is to turn it nto something living, something of what you are an organic part of. A real teacher will be able to help you in ways you did not think possible. In this case you realized that regarding the outer life, politics, history, he is not more knowledgable than yourself, maybe less.

But Siva is right too. It did happen to me too, that a person to whom I look up to, respect and admire had an intolerant and harsh expression. Indeed, I was more ashamed and stunned that I would have liked. Poeple tend to invest much soul energy in their believes, and this astral energy, when expressed usually tries to invade your soul/mind. Because of this in most spiritual methods, there is this practice of listening to arbitrary things said by others, less informed or knowledgable in that domain, WITHOUT ALLOWING YOURSELF THE SLIGHTEST RECATION OF AVERSION, OR DISAGREEMENT. One might ask, what reason such exercise might have. Well, it makes you invulnerable to such astral attacks. If your soul/mind is disturbed by somone else’s actions, where is your freedom ?

In this situation, he might have been a better teacher, rfreining of from expressing his believes, what might not even be that deeply rooted … thus he might be quilty of gossip rather than being a manipulator, we all know that many people talk without thinking about what they say, first, second you might have been a better disciple, not letting his shortcomings touch you. The real question would be: do you recieve enough from this teacher in other fields than world politics to continue going to his classes ? While it would be great to find a teacher who indeed would be intimately accustomed with the things you mentioned, is it a realistic goal for you to really find such a teacher ? Or is that really so important ?

  • the other thing might have been to challenge him. If that would create trouble, that means his authority has nor real foundations. Real wisdom naturally gives a form of authority that can be easily accepted. Indeed, as teacher, one should strive for being respected as a human being, for his/her own qualities, rather than for the imaginary position of yoga teacher.

Hi

ALIX WROTE… there is a ripple effect which will touch many.

My personal view of love is…when you are in love, where the relationship is working, you are in love with the essence of that person.
Where a relationship doest always work is when you are in love with a detail/s of the person and not the essence.

Picking out individual events throwing them open to a discussion or just making a statement, is dealing with the details, there are so many many times where compassion needs to be exercised that all these individual events become many many details.
So I try to capture the essence rather than the detail.

I have taken on board what you have said about the ripple effect. but will my compassion end up being for one for both sides of the argument if it is discussed? e.g. Palestine or Israel…Im sure if I listen to the details of their reasons for their fight, I might hear something which sways me …And then there will be the details that I know nothing about, things that haven’t been said, but should be if the subject is going to tackled.

Can you find compassion for the pedophile who has committed a crime in your area.
Or the kid that beats your child up in the playground. Or the mother in law that doesn’t like you and doesn’t have grounds for disliking you…if one cant feel genuine compassion for these people then starting further afield is pointless perhaps?

Obviously each one of these people is wrong but I don’t know all the details of their lives, or the condition of their minds which have brought about their actions so I try to offer them compassion instantly without debate, hesitation and judgment. (It isn’t easy)

Hubert is right to say don’t let the teachers shortcomings touch you.

Kind Regards Kareng

The sun has popped out of the clouds…happy Sunday to you all x

Once you make them “wrong” you will find compassion a very steep hill to climb.

There is a fine line where you have to consider what is wrong and not giving it any thought
I don’t think this limits compassion.
Kind Regards Kareng

Wondering how you guys write such long replies :slight_smile:

My short reply goes here: As Siva mentioned above, “Yoga teachers”, I would rather say “Yoga Instructors” are people no different from anyone else. Take what you need and leave the rest alone and if you find problem with the classes of one instructor move to another :slight_smile: