Yoga without Asana

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

With the immense popularity of Yoga in the west these days, a lot of information about Yoga is misinterpreted and disseminated.

One of the biggest follies that people who are unfamiliar with yOgA make is that the term yOgA is associated only with Asana, or Hatha Yoga (physical postures).

Nothing new there. However, there are no yOgA studios that deal with becoming yOgIs without practicing Asana; a Bhakti yOgI, a JnAna yOgI, rAja yOgI, or even karma yOgI. Of course, Asana is a very important aspect of Yoga but if one ignores the other aspects, one misses the real import of Yoga.

How many of you have actually met a yOgI who does NOT do AsanA? How many of you feel like you may be “better” than other practitioners because your body allows you to do more complex Hatha Yoga poses than them?

Yoga, at the end of the day, is to curb the ahaMkArA (ego/little-Self). When one pursues yOgA for the betterment of just oneself, whether it is for one’s body and/or mind, that type of “yOgA” is of little worth. When yOgA is pursued to release oneself from avidyA (ignorance of spiritual matters), one truly practices yOgA.

So Hatha Yoga is just a stepping stone to higher knowledge. Those who wish to learn it for mere physical benefits are defeating the purpose of yOgA itself.

It is like buying a Carrera GT and learning how to park. Yes, that can be called “driving”, but, it really isn’t driving. :slight_smile:

#2

With the immense popularity of Yoga in the west these days, a lot of information about Yoga is misinterpreted and disseminated.

By both east and west.

#3

I do not believe that one can perceive knowledge when ones ankle, but, heart, head…etc is hurting and ones breath is not controlled and mind is not focused.

Practice of asana is SOMETIMES a beginning stage to self- realization, self discipline and purification.

Hatha yoga includes pranayama, kriyas and meditation besides asanas. And if some studios or teachers teach exclusively asanas - it is still very good for self discipline, body purification and body awareness and MAYBE some self-realization.

#4

So Hatha Yoga is just a stepping stone to higher knowledge. Those who wish to learn it for mere physical benefits are defeating the purpose of yOgA itself.

Actually hatha yoga is a complete system of itself. Asana is only a limb of Hatha Yoga. Asana is a subset of Hatha yoga, it doesn’t equal Hatha yoga.

#5

I dont get this:

[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61382]
Nothing new there. However, there are no yOgA studios that deal with becoming yOgIs without practicing Asana; a Bhakti yOgI, a JnAna yOgI, rAja yOgI, or even karma yOgI.
[/QUOTE]

No such studios in the entire world?

#6

“Nothing new there. However, there are no yOgA studios that deal with becoming yOgIs without practicing Asana; a Bhakti yOgI, a JnAna yOgI, rAja yOgI, or even karma yOgI. Of course, Asana is a very important aspect of Yoga but if one ignores the other aspects, one misses the real import of Yoga.”

Do not know what you mean by this…some of those forms of yoga do not involve asana…

You need to be doing some kind of Karama yoga and Bhakti yoga to be a yogi…

The asana part simply keeps your body healthy and you can not be a true yogi without taking care of yourself including your physical health.

#7

[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61382]With the immense popularity of Yoga in the west these days, a lot of information about Yoga is misinterpreted and disseminated.

One of the biggest follies that people who are unfamiliar with yOgA make is that the term yOgA is associated only with Asana, or Hatha Yoga (physical postures).

Nothing new there. However, there are no yOgA studios that deal with becoming yOgIs without practicing Asana; a Bhakti yOgI, a JnAna yOgI, rAja yOgI, or even karma yOgI. Of course, Asana is a very important aspect of Yoga but if one ignores the other aspects, one misses the real import of Yoga.

How many of you have actually met a yOgI who does NOT do AsanA? How many of you feel like you may be “better” than other practitioners because your body allows you to do more complex Hatha Yoga poses than them?

Yoga, at the end of the day, is to curb the ahaMkArA (ego/little-Self). When one pursues yOgA for the betterment of just oneself, whether it is for one’s body and/or mind, that type of “yOgA” is of little worth. When yOgA is pursued to release oneself from avidyA (ignorance of spiritual matters), one truly practices yOgA.

So Hatha Yoga is just a stepping stone to higher knowledge. Those who wish to learn it for mere physical benefits are defeating the purpose of yOgA itself.

It is like buying a Carrera GT and learning how to park. Yes, that can be called “driving”, but, it really isn’t driving. :)[/QUOTE]

The purpose of Asana is only to train the body to be able to sit for long hours in dharan. Once the body is able to sit “sthiram” for say 2- 3 hours, asanas become redundant for the purpose of spiritual practice. The body will still benefit from Asana practice, but I suppose one who is sufficiently up the path of spirituality will not bother too much about the body.

Of course there are many souls who are already so advanced in the path, that they do not need to sit for “dharan” and move straight into “dhyan”. For such people asanas are redundant. eg… Sri Ramakrishna, Ramana Mahrishi etc. In Ramana maharishi 's ashram there are no asanas. only sat sang and meditation.

There are other similar realised gurus. Of course-they do not seek disciples. disciples seek them and stay with them to learn. Swami Dayananda Sarswati for eg. And these are real Gurukools. I doubt they would branch into “Yoga Studios”.

#8

[QUOTE=reaswaran;61446]The purpose of Asana is only to train the body to be able to sit for long hours in dharan. Once the body is able to sit “sthiram” for say 2- 3 hours, asanas become redundant for the purpose of spiritual practice. .[/QUOTE]

I don’t totally agree. That’s the Raja Yoga view. Asanas are more than this. Asanas are a “bodily meditation”, a source of health and longevity, and an excellent preparation for a pranayama session. You may have a kundalini awakening and spiritual experiences through asanas…

Of course, in the end, it is meditation what leads us to the goal.

#9

Yes, in the West Yoga is considered to be nothing more than a physical practice. As some members on the Yoga forum alone have categorized it under gymnastics and fitness. Some members, such as ex-members like Yogiadam suggested that Yoga be stripped of all other limbs, including pranayama. In the West a Yoga teacher is basically somebody who teaches asanas.

However, the authorities of the Yoga in the world like B.K.S Iyengar do not consider this to be Yoga at all - they call it unyoga. It is clear what Yoga is: It is a science of spiritual deveopment with the goal of self-realization at the end. It deals with in intricate detail the anatomy of the subtle body and the movements of prana in the body, and their relationships with mental states and physical states. It also deals with various dimensions of reality that we are simultaneously present in and brings us into contact with them. It has developed technologies whereby we can gain control of the movements of prana in the body and thereby gain control of our physical and mental states and free up our creative energies and brighten our intellect, so we can apply ourselves effectively in the world.

Less than 5% of people in the West practice real Yoga.

#10

To add: One cannot practice real Yoga without being a Hindu. As you have to accept everything Hinduism says in the first place to want to practice Yoga. After all, how can you have self-realization, without accepting the doctrine of self and its opposite false ego in the first place.

#11

[QUOTE=TatTvamAsi;61382]
So Hatha Yoga is just a stepping stone to higher knowledge. Those who wish to learn it for mere physical benefits are defeating the purpose of yOgA itself.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, because I believe that anatomically focused asana will enhance mindfulness whether this is the intention or not. One who is doing yoga for physical only MAY, at that stage of the journey, be engaged in perfect practice. I would estimate this to be a small number of people.

I have a limited experience taking yoga classes at different studios but most of what the teachers say I find to be insightful. I would not feel better than someone else if I am more flexible or balanced…as I would not assume a higher intelligence than someone who has both legs amputated. Do you feel “better” than someone only focused on the physical?

Cool analogy, and I agree that would be silly and wasteful, but driving may not be the destination or even part of the journey.

Thanks for some food for thought, you have stated well a common sentiment of the forum.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61382]
cannot practice real Yoga without being a Hindu. As you have to accept everything Hinduism says in the first place to want to practice Yoga[/QUOTE]
Sounds elitist. You may be right that Hinduism aligns well with yoga, but it is certainly not the only way and besides you will be lucky to find 2 people who 100% agree on what everything in Hinduism is.

#12

I disagree, because I believe that anatomically focused asana will enhance mindfulness whether this is the intention or not. One who is doing yoga for physical only MAY

The asanas may indeed enhance mindfulness, but this is not the function of the asanas in Yoga and nor is mindfulness the goal of Yoga. Asana means an easy posture in which you can remain seated in for an indefinite period to meditate. In Hatha Yoga asanas are done in order to relax the body enough to enter into meditation.

Mindfulness is not the the goal of Yoga but actually part of the first and second limb of Yoga, yama and niyamas. The goal of Yoga is the eigth limb, samadhi. In samadhi the ego completely dissolves, duality collapses into oneness and one attains an absolutely pure and still mind. Simply by practicing mindfulness one cannot get to the goal of Yoga. This is not to say it is not important, in fact is very important and foundation of a Yoga practice, hence why Patanjali mentions it as the first few limbs even before asanas.

Unfortunately, there are many pseudo yogis out there especially in the West who think being mindfull is the same as enlightenment. This is not the case as I have already discussed, mindfullness is just one of the many techniques used in Yoga in order to reach enlightenment or samadhi when combined with a full Yoga practice.

Do you feel “better” than someone only focused on the physical?

Yes, I would say I am more evolved than somebody who is focussing on the physical. I definitely think I am more evolved than an animal. Likewise, I am more evolved than a human who is closer to an animal.

Sounds elitist. You may be right that Hinduism aligns well with yoga, but it is certainly not the only way and besides you will be lucky to find 2 people who 100% agree on what everything in Hinduism is.

Hinduism and Yoga are not different words, they refer to the same thing. Hinduism is basically the religion of Yoga. If you are practicing proper Yoga for the actual purpose it was created for then you cannot not be a Hindu. As one would not do something for the union between the individual soul and supreme soul/dissolution of the ego to reveal the witness/the awakening of the adishakti kundalini or mahaprana, unless they accepted they were possible in the first place.

It is impossible to be a real Yogi and not be a Hindu. After all, Yoga is a Hindu religious practice for reaching Hindu salvation: union with the absolute, the ending of the cycle of rebirth, total transcendence. If you are doing real Yoga you are doing it because you have accepted the doctrines of Hinduism. If you haven’t, then what use is it for you?

He who knows not the eternal
syllable of the Veda,
the highest point upon which
all the Gods repose,
what business has he with the Veda?
Only its knowers sit
here in peace and concord.
RV I, 164, 39

#13

There are many hindus who don’t practice yoga.

#14

They are not practicing Hindus. There are many Muslims who do not do their 5 prayers a day ritual.

Hindu is less of a religion and more of a state of development. Even I am not a proper Hindu yet, I am trying to become one though. I accept all its doctrines which makes me more Hindu than somebody who doesn’t. I will be trully a Hindu when I have a sadhana going. As you are aware, I am working towards that at the moment.

#15

HYP… ch2 -37.

“some acharyas(teachers) do not advoate any other practice, being of the opinion that all the impurities are dried up by the practice of pranayama only.”

#16

[QUOTE=The Scales;61494]There are many hindus who don’t practice yoga.[/QUOTE]

No quarrel there. There a a few thousands who have the urge to tread the path of Yoga (i use the term in the traditional sense of self realisation here). Among the few thousands who feel the urge (these are really blessed by the way-only those have some degree of spirituality will ever feel this need), there are fewer still who have the qualities to complete the journey and out of these still fewer who actually reach the destination.

So saying that Hindus dont practice yoga is a perfectly valid statement.

#17

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;61473]To add: One cannot practice real Yoga without being a Hindu. As you have to accept everything Hinduism says in the first place to want to practice Yoga. After all, how can you have self-realization, without accepting the doctrine of self and its opposite false ego in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Are such rigid requirements necessary to practice “real” yoga, especially when one of the blessings of yoga is freeing the mind/body/breath from being rigid?

#18

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;61433]Actually hatha yoga is a complete system of itself. Asana is only a limb of Hatha Yoga. Asana is a subset of Hatha yoga, it doesn’t equal Hatha yoga.[/QUOTE]The Siddha Siddhanta Paddhati is a very early extant Hatha Yoga Sanskrit text attributed to Gorakshanath.

This scripture speaks about chakras and Kundalini. Unless you get Kundalini awakening is pointless to speak about yoga.

#19

[QUOTE=Seeker33;61572]The Siddha Siddhanta Paddhati is a very early extant Hatha Yoga Sanskrit text attributed to Gorakshanath.

This scripture speaks about chakras and Kundalini. Unless you get Kundalini awakening is pointless to speak about yoga.[/QUOTE]

how do youz get dumdalini awakenin "