Your religion and abortion

Spirituality Religion
#101

[QUOTE=thomas;50006]Well what if they feel it’s something they really wish they had not done ten years later?

Will they be grateful to Planned “Parenthood” then? Will PP apologize for being a faciltator to kill their babies that they mourn?[/QUOTE]

Planned Parenthood should not have to apologize. They are providing a legal service. All they can do is counsel women. It is ultimately up to the woman to make the decision for herself and live with her decision. If they feel that they should not have done it, then that has nothing to do with planned parenthood. Some women feel remorse and regret after giving a child up for adoption. Most women who have abortions feel regret and remorse only for a short time. After that passes they feel relief.

#102

[QUOTE=thomas;50006]Well what if they feel it’s something they really wish they had not done ten years later?

Will they be grateful to Planned “Parenthood” then? Will PP apologize for being a faciltator to kill their babies that they mourn?[/QUOTE]

And you think brainwashing them with Christian dogmatism solves the problem?

#103

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;49997]It is appalling to see how my simple words were twisted by Thomas and a lot many new words were forced in my mouth. I am a Yoga practitioner who follows ahimsa and wouldn’t even suggest killing anybody or anything.

In my view, to decry abortion only in the human context is approaching the equation from a wrong end. When one wants to respect life, one should respect ALL life. And in doing so, when one faces impossible dilemmas that put life against life, one should be ready to be rational rather than be blinded by emotions.

Life has to be seen along with its twin, death. Only this way will we learn the divine purpose of both. What ends in death is what begins in life. What ends on death is the functionality of the physical body, thus rendering it perishable. In Yoga, the cause of the functionality is called prana energy. Hence, infusion of prana marks the birth of life that happens with the first breath.

It is very important that life perpetuates with birth after birth. In fact, the Yoga philosophy further explains that when, how and in what worldly conditions should a subtle body reincarnate is decided by that body itself. The opportune circumstances are carefully orchestrated to make the ‘birth’ happen. In very unfortunate circumstances the subtle body, the architect of the new life, itself aborts that mission.

Pondering over these larger dimensions will help realize the big picture, rather than stoking the fire somehow with a narrow fixation over one single aspect. That will allow better understanding of the subtle forces and will teach us to truly respect the higher intelligence to which we often offer only lip-service. We need to look at Jainism to understand the real breadth and depth of ‘ahimsa’ and also remain open to such beautiful alternatives like adoption.[/QUOTE]

Interesting rationalization.

How about we do likewise with inconvenient (born) babies and toddlers.

Let’s see…there are some poor destitute kids playing in the gutter…why not mow them down and send them into new bodies?

So we must wait until we devolop proper respect chickens, cockroaches, and germs to consider whether it’s wrong to murder a baby in the womb? Until then it wouldn’t be fair to prevent someone from sucking the brains out of a fetus so long as we might be stepping on ants?

This is so disgusting, cruel, and heartless, I think I need to go away and puke and then cool down before I say something harsh.

#104

[QUOTE=Star Light;50009]Planned Parenthood should not have to apologize. They are providing a legal service. All they can do is counsel women. It is ultimately up to the woman to make the decision for herself and live with her decision. If they feel that they should not have done it, then that has nothing to do with planned parenthood. Some women feel remorse and regret after giving a child up for adoption. Most women who have abortions feel regret and remorse only for a short time. After that passes they feel relief.[/QUOTE]

I’ve heard of many cases where it then comes back to haunt them years later.

Yes, they are providing a legal service. It’s just too darn bad it’s legal, and it’s sad and irresponsible that so many who have a sense that it is an injustice, will look the other way, and not make any waves because it should be a matter of “choice.”

#105

[QUOTE=thomas;50087]I’ve heard of many cases where it then comes back to haunt them years later.

Yes, they are providing a legal service. It’s just too darn bad it’s legal, and it’s sad and irresponsible that so many who have a sense that it is an injustice, will look the other way, and not make any waves because it should be a matter of “choice.”[/QUOTE]

I’ve also heard many stories where women have felt incredible regret after giving a child up for adoption. It depends on the woman and her circumstances. I don’t think religion should get in the way of the law. If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t get one.

#106

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;49855]

Functional life is enabled with ‘prana’, the cosmic force becoming the subtle body of an object. In humans and the animal kingdom, this happens when a new-born takes its first breath. That kick starts the fusion process at muladhara chakra followed by the fission process at swadhisthana. (The two sources of energy have an expiry date!)

So, until the first breath a fetus is not functionally alive. And if it is to be taken as alive from conception, the definition of ahimsa needs to be widened so much that we should be aware of killing even germs when we breathe.[/QUOTE]

Abhimanu of mahabharata, as they say, learnt the art of battle field maneuvers as a fetus. and then there was this astavakra.

#107

You can not argue with them logically in the context of their religious views because their foundations aren’t built upon Logic and reason but rather their world view is built upon blind faith in an absurd EXOTERIC dogma that contradicts the very message of nature.

The only thing you can do for them is to kindly try and undermine their superstitions.

You don’t have to be “religious” or “superstitious” to think it’s wrong and cruel to kill babies, whether in the womb or out of the womb. There are atheist pro-lifers.

#108

Prasad,
If you re-read the post you will notice a use of words ‘functional life’ that is manifest in day-to-day living as a physical human being. It is also mentioned that right from the moment of conception, its ‘mothers’ astral and causal bodies oversee the development. These subtle bodies are much more powerful and phenomenally intelligent.

Since you know Abhimanyu, you must also be familiar with the legacy of past lives that accumulates as is reflected in many scriptural stories. Such great people don’t need to learn only through their functional bodies (after birth) as you and me do. Because of the legacy, they are born intelligent. Saint Jnaneshwar is another example. (Now whether Abhimanyu really learnt about chakravyuha by listening to his pregnant mother or it was more a naive simplified explanation designed for the folks - we have no way to know)

Most of what is said in my post needs some first-hand exposure to the higher intelligence without which it is unlikely to be absorbed fully. It will never be appreciated that the body in incubation is nurtured and protected with great care in the hands of superior intelligence, superior even to the mind of the physical mother.

#109

Notice how Thomas has avoided answering my points

  1. Would you gamble with the mothers life to save the childs life if the chances were 50%
  2. How he can reconcile his anti-abortion beliefs with the bible where infanticide is commited by his god himself, and similar acts done by holy prophets.

Here is your proof positive that Christians are hypocrities.

#110

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;50108]Notice how Thomas has avoided answering my points

  1. Would you gamble with the mothers life to save the childs life if the chances were 50%
  2. How he can reconcile his anti-abortion beliefs with the bible where infanticide is commited by his god himself, and similar acts done by holy prophets.

Here is your proof positive that Christians are hypocrities.[/QUOTE]

Is it or is it not unjust to kill the life in the womb deliberately?

You want me to be consistent because of something that happened in the OT? I’m supposed to be a baby killer because of it?

Sorry, my Church tells me differently, and my Church is one of the few consistent voices that opposes this slaughter and stands up for the rights of the unborn.

So what would be an example of a situation where a woman has a 50% chance of dying if she doesn’t have an abortion?

#111

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;50106]Prasad,
Most of what is said in my post needs some first-hand exposure to the higher intelligence without which it is unlikely to be absorbed fully. It will never be appreciated that the body in incubation is nurtured and protected with great care in the hands of superior intelligence, superior even to the mind of the physical mother.[/QUOTE]

then why miscarriages???

#112

[QUOTE=thomas;50110]Is it or is it not unjust to kill the life in the womb deliberately?

You want me to be consistent because of something that happened in the OT? I’m supposed to be a baby killer because of it?

Sorry, my Church tells me differently, and my Church is one of the few consistent voices that opposes this slaughter and stands up for the rights of the unborn.

So what would be an example of a situation where a woman has a 50% chance of dying if she doesn’t have an abortion?[/QUOTE]

HELLP Syndrome will cause death in the mother if the pregnancy is not abandoned. Usually this only happens late in pregnancy so the fetus can just be delivered and there is no problem. In rare cases it occurs early in pregnancy and the woman will die if she does not terminate.

Eclampsia is also a condition that needs immediate abortion or delivery.

#113

You want me to be consistent because of something that happened in the OT? I’m supposed to be a baby killer because of it?

How do you then reconcile the bible as your holy scripture, when the OT is an integral part of it.

So what would be an example of a situation where a woman has a 50% chance of dying if she doesn’t have an abortion?

Answer the question. If the woman had a 50% chance of death if she gave birth would you go ahead with the birth or abort it?

#114

[QUOTE=thomas;50110]Sorry, my Church tells me differently, and my Church is one of the few consistent voices that opposes this slaughter and stands up for the rights of the unborn.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, because your church needs as many paying a$$es in pews as it can get.
THAT’S why. :smiley:

#115

#116

let me ask a question.

can you be pro-choice and a hindu?

how do hindus feel about abortion?

is abortion legal in India?

#117

[QUOTE=Chitta Control;51102]let me ask a question.

can you be pro-choice and a hindu?

how do hindus feel about abortion?

is abortion legal in India?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

We don’t have a general view per se. For example, we are not like Christians and Muslims who believe their religion is the only true one. However, many recognize that while abortion is wrong, there are certain special circumstances in which it is acceptable.

I don’t know for sure, but most likely yes. What do you expect from a nation with 1.1 billion people? :wink:

#118

What are the “special circumstances”?

What about those abortions that are not because of special circumstances? Would you consider them to be unjust? Would you consider them to akin to murder or manslaughter?

#119

[QUOTE=thomas;51122]What are the “special circumstances”?

What about those abortions that are not because of special circumstances? Would you consider them to be unjust? Would you consider them to akin to murder or manslaughter?[/QUOTE]

Didn’t we already go over this my old friend? We had this discussion in the “Is Yoga Hinduism” thread and SD has been debating the matter further with you in this one.

#120

Yes, let us abort the coming of babies. There are already too many crippled souls in this world.