Ahimsa - Nonviolence - Vegetarianism - Veganism

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#11

Hi!
I gradually became a vegetarian. When I met my (now) husband 8 years ago he was Vegan.
He never pushed me to change my eating lifestyle. Over time for my own personal reasons I felt a strong sense of change and thought I should give it a try.
It took time. I gradually decreased my meat intake and I started to feel amazing.
It wasn’t easy being a southern girl raised on meant and startches!
But, I am much much happier with myself and my decision.
I love Vegan / Vegetarian Recipes and More for the Vegan Diet and Lifestyle
That is how I started to learn to cook for my husband. It is also helped me with my grocery bill! I was making 2 meals each time I cooked. One for my husband and one for myself when I ate meat. So all around it worked for us.

The only advice I can give other than go gradual is listen to your body.
My body couldn’t process meat, I had so many digestive issues. Dr.'s were trying to put me on pills for IBS before even discussing my diet.
So that was another reason I thought…Why not try it!

#12

Really neat, so how have you been doing since you changed your diet? Any mood/energy/otherwise anomalies?

#13

Hi,

What is interesting for me about being a vegetarian, is that I generally feel good, most of my illness (which was a result of all the antibiotics and other toxins in meat, which they feed the animals to keep them so called healthier and to grow them faster) vanished. My emotions is much more stable and my spastic colon and high cholestrol disappeared. In the mean time I try to go to our farmers market every Saturday, there I can buy healthy organically grown veggies, milk and cheese which was produced from happy and organically fed animals. These farmers are all certified organic farmers. Why must we eat food that was flown in from Kenia or Zambia or Zimbabwe or even Europe if we can find good and fresh produce on our doorsteps. I also try to cultivate my own veggies, with some amazing results.

Anyway, being a vegetarian has been so far a very interesting journey for me and I enjoy every moment of it.

#14

I feel much better. I do not have the digestive issues I had before and my practice shows!
I don’t throw my views of vegetarian lifestyle out to others…unless they are curious. You have to do what fits your lifestyle.
I just don’t condone killing of animals and my body agrees. :slight_smile:

#15

Vegetarianism naturally results directly from one of the Yamas of Ashtanga Yoga of Patanjali - Ahimsa. Anything that is the result of violence is forbidden. Also nature did not intend humans to eat meat because otherwise we would have had canine teeth like all carnivores (the two sharp incisors that tigers, lions, dogs etc. have).

But there are levels of vegetarianism

  1. Avoidance of any food that is the result of KILLING of an animal - basically means not eating meat or fish but can eat all kinds of veggies and fruits

This is the most common meaning of vegetarianism

  1. Avoidance of any food that is the result of KILLING of an animal OR plant - basically means eat only fruits and veggies that do not result in destruction of the plant

Practiced by many saints. They will not eat potatoes or carrots for example because the whole plant is detroyed in the process of cultivation. They will eat, for example, tomatoes which are plucked from the plant without destroying the plant

  1. Avoidance of any food that is the result of any kind of VIOLENCE on an animal or plant - basically means eat only fruits and veggies that have FALLEN from the plant

Many sadhus in the Himalayas practice this level of vegetarianism. When a mango fruit falls it is going to decay anyway. They will then eat the pulp and dispose the seed into nature to allow nature to deal with it as it may. The Jain sadhus practice an even more strict version of vegetarianism - they always wear a mask over their mouth to avoid inadvertently swallowing insects.

What should a non-vegetarian do? My humble answer is that we humans have many habits that we cannot easily break. Meat eating is one of them. People who are born vegetarians (like me) can easily preach vegetarianism but, on the other hand, I may not be able to give up drinking or pizza. In my opinion, the approach of a yoga practitioner who eats meat should be one of acceptance of this habit as a reality and ask God for his forgiveness.

Much Peace

#16

There are several factors what increase health and longevity, diet is just one of them.
Good social skills are just as important, if not more important than this, also a positive attitude towards life helps a lot.
Being a vegetarian does not automatically mean one is healthier or a better person. This does not discard vegetarianism, though, just that the picture is not black and white as we usually like to percieve things.
I can imagine a meat containing diet that is healthier than a vegan one what allows alcohol or refined foods.
Dietary restrains are important preparing and during pranyama practice when the nadis are purified. Once pranayama is mastered, any food will be tolerable, and the practicant will resist even poisonous substances ! (it is good to be a yogi, isn’t it ? :slight_smile: )

But I do not want to minimize the role of a good diet. It is hard to keep one, as in cities, refined foods are cheap an accessible. A good meal requires fresh, unrefined, unprepared cereals, vegetables, fruits what are harder to acquire and more expensive.
For a vegan, I’d think that wheat, rice, corn, oat, rye, barley, boiled in water, with sea salt, green spices and cold pressed olive oil are great meals. Few know, but wheat do has all the nutrients (aminoacids, too) we need, that’s why it was possible for saints to live only on bread and water. Barley was a the basic food of greek olimpikons and roman gladiators. Workhorses were given rye, a cereal very rich in good fats, around 6 %.

Another type of food is beans and peas. Yellow peas are very high in proteins, as are lentils. Eat these if you must performe heavy physical activities.
And of course, there are vegetables as salads of all kinds, what will provide all vitamines, minerals, enzymes both dicovered and yet undiscovered. Fruits too.
Nuts and seeds are another choice, but these, because of their richness in nutrients should be used in measured quantities. Almonds are richest in proteins, hazelnuts are highest in monounsaturated fats. Walnuts are rich in omega-3 fats, pumpkin seeds are also good sources of protein (around 30 % of their weight), sunflower kernels are great source of vitamin E.

Too bad most buyable nuts are roasted, transforming part of their fatty acids in TRANS fats, what are even worse tha saturated fats of animal origin.

#17

Heh, since I started this thread I figued I had better check in on it!

I have been doing… well… decent on my veggie goal. Being close to a vegan has always been something of a subconscious goal for me. I’m really ocd about what I put in my body when I can manage it (I absolutely do not touch hydrogenated oils or refined sugars! period) but I have my weaknesses, such as the can of beanie weenies at an all nighter. Anyway I am still working on it.

I found an excellent way to cook steel cut oats and flaxseeds with just a touch of salt, cinnamon, and maple syrup to make a really filling meal. I’ve been messing around with various dishes and I found some winners. I figured I’d still eat cruelty-free eggs (four bucks a dozen but good protein).

I also, after going vegan for the first time, had to realize there were just more important things than what you put in your mouth to get along in this world and help this world get along. I’ve met so many pretentious as… I mean, jerks… (sorry grandma) that thought their almighty way was God’s gift to the world and then did some pretty shady stuff in their spare time, so I’m past that. At this point I’m looking at this more like a puzzle. And I figured I’d learn a lot while I am at it.

Umm… I do want to make some comments regarding a previous post in this thread. “Nature” does not dictate what humans should do. Nature IS what humans DO. Nature is not the Hebrew god telling us not to eat pork (or in this case meat) nature is just whatever happens, and it just happens that there are discernable patterns and rhythms to it that render it studyable and understandable. Sorry if I can come across as abrasive but it just really irks me when humans dictate what nature tells humans to do. Hunter-gatherers are a part of our natural history and it is pretty silly to deny it. And I know that humans don’t have a problem eating meat because I have eaten enough of it in my lifetime! AND I can forgive MYSELF, thank you.

#18

This whole post about vegetarianism reminds me of an incident years ago. Just after I cut all meat from my diet and made the decision to go fully vegetarian, I was invited to a lunch with a few other yogis to an old lady who used to do yoga and has great wisdom. Unfortunately this old lady forgot that most of us are vegetarian and served a beautiful chicken pie with some greens on the side. So there I sat and I didn’t know what to do now as I didn’t want to refuse the food and offend my host. One of the other and older yogis, who saw my predicament laughed and asked me: “So Willie, what are you going to be now, the better vegetarian or the better yogi?” :slight_smile:

#19

If it is done for health … it is just another diet.
If it is done because you love animals, and see them as your older brothers, beings like you, perhaps less fortunate, than it is unacceptable to kill them so you can eat their flesh.

Those who mention hunter gatherers, and evolutionary theories, forget that hunters had great respect for the animal they hunted, and they usually asked for forgivness. They knew, that killing one animal is not a sin as big one as killing a human, because animals have a group soul. Killing a member does not deny this soul to gain experience or to evolve. So it is a sin forgivebale, especially if you are in need, if you do not prevent the prpagation and natural ways of that species.

The more evolved a being the greater the sin of killing it is. Mammals should not be eaten at all.
I heard of succesfull transplant of a pig heart into a human. How to eat pork after this ? It is like eating human flesh.
Yes, traditions, and social circumstances make this acceptable.
But in fact this is not acceptable. It is a very bad habit we must shake off.

I invite everyone to watch “meet your meat” on youtube. Even if there can be arguments that not all farms are like those in the video, once you see how they suffer, you realize, they are warm blooded beings with eyes, lungs, vocal cords, muscles, capable of fear, agony, and suffering just as we are.
This is knowledge. This is seeing the world really.

We so many times run from it, we have medicine, central heating, we have butchers so we do not have blood on our hands.
When you buy meat products you kill. The suffering and horror is hidden behind the image of a joyous butcher boy, who hands that juciy sausage over to you. He is health himself. You think, meat gives strenght. And it might provide strenght indeed … but I think the price we pay is too high, and the sad thing is we do not realize it.

#20

Thank you, Hubert, that was very very well put. I enjoy reading your posts more and more.

The only thing I disagree on is the hunter-gatherer societies asking forgiveness for their kills. I haven’t read anything on this and I thought that it was more of a Judeo-Christian tradition to ask forgiveness, and also to ask for the animals’ assent before they killed it. The hunter-gatherers had great respect for what they kill, though, and from what I have read had ceremonies to honor and release the spirit of the animal (or four-legged… they didn’t make the same human-animal distinction we do today it was just two-leggeds and four-leggeds, at least in the Lakota literature). PLEASE, please correct me if I am wrong.

I’ve been on both sides of the “well what’s wrong with western culture anyway?” argument. (the one that addresses whether or not we should be ashamed for our cultures’ wiping out of the Indians, which is a pretty stupid question if you ask me, the answer is yes, and we should also be ashamed at everything else on the planet we are destroying! I don’t think anyone should be called a true historian if they don’t feel pangs of -something- I don’t care if it is shame, sadness, what have you when they talk about things like this, but I digress…) Basically the people who ask this question are either trying to counter the pacifist Indian society argument (the one that states that tribal warfare was just ceremonial and paints a picture of a Native American utopia), or trying to justify our historical faults for what we have made out of it… (hooray corporatism! and a lower murder rate in our modern society, of course, which of course would not have happened if we had not wiped out the “savages” [sarcasm])

I am starting a new paragraph because I think I digressed too much in that last one! Anyway, yes, we do have MUCH to learn about humility and being thankful for this world we live on, and working within nature rather than trying to conquer it, because we’re not really a part of the web of life still, right? (again sarcasm) For some reason the culture we come from has a problem with understanding this, perhaps because it has been way too long since our ancestors had to survive off the land. Well, with global warming on the rise and the amazon rainforest estimated at 50 years left (WAKE UP IDIOTS IN POWER) it still looks like survivalism to me!!

And, again, sorry if I get abrasive sounding when I talk about stuff like this, but it really does make me furious. I wish I could do more about it… but I really don’t know how at this point… I need to save up money first.

#21

[QUOTE=Hubert;7343]
Dietary restrains are important preparing and during pranyama practice when the nadis are purified. Once pranayama is mastered, any food will be tolerable, and the practicant will resist even poisonous substances ! (it is good to be a yogi, isn’t it ? :slight_smile: )

.[/QUOTE]
when does one know when they have mastered pranyama

#22

I think, from what you quoted of Hubert saying, that we can test them with D-con.

And start a pool.

Hehe

#23

amik, when i find myself most angry at others it is usually when I am in a mental state where I am not content within myself. being angry on the past? we are in the now. Do the right thing for you in the now and let the past and future be as they were and will be. maybe there karma was as such that they were destined to be destroyed, I dont know these answers but to be angry about things of the such is taking a position of you judging what is right and wrong without knowing all the factors involved, is your knowledge that high to make these judgement.
I say this with a loving heart
I have things to let go of too and what I said is just my thoughts on what I read, nothing more, nothing less
seeker

#24

[quote=tubeseeker;7439]amik, when i find myself most angry at others it is usually when I am in a mental state where I am not content within myself. being angry on the past? we are in the now. Do the right thing for you in the now and let the past and future be as they were and will be. maybe there karma was as such that they were destined to be destroyed, I dont know these answers but to be angry about things of the such is taking a position of you judging what is right and wrong without knowing all the factors involved, is your knowledge that high to make these judgement.
I say this with a loving heart
I have things to let go of too and what I said is just my thoughts on what I read, nothing more, nothing less
seeker[/quote]

Well, it might be that I am in my 20-something years, but I really am not content to say that it’s the earth’s fate to just pass on. Maybe humanity has written its own fate. I don’t know. I know a lot of people who saw no value in the human race continuing, and I as an absolute relativist for a while absolutely did not care. (At the same time what I did care about was getting laid and being “awesome” so go figure.) All of the factors I know have been my own. I’ve seen myself not care about the fate of the earth, I’ve seen myself self-destructive, I’ve seen myself turned on to Enlightenment with a capital E which is both true and not true, subsequently I took to looking at values systems and realized there is power in some of them (such as the respect of hunter gatherers I mentioned in my last post) and I understand why it is I care, because darn it there is hope in them as well!

I grew up without a value system, well a “real” value system. My household was the model postmodern household. I learned how to survive, not how to live well. Both of my parents maintained the external facade of living well, and all the while, well, I’ll just say my dad is a professor and what I know about him would get him fired at the least. And my mom stayed married to him. I love my parents, but I’d be absolutely lying if I said, knowing what I know now, I am not absolutely pissed off at them for lying to me about the nature of their relationship. I know that they did not know much about a good values system because they were both raised in faulty ones.

Nothing is reality. Everything is a part of reality. Having said that a value system is just a part of reality that makes it much better and healthier for living intelligent organisms like me to get along. My dive into the rabbit hole began when I realized that parts of my reality were dominating the picture, i.e. I lived in a hyperreality. These parts were academia, seeking father figures, and attracting suitable boyfriends (and the weird egos I adopted trying to attract them, the peacock tails if you will), and I had overlooked the very important fundamentals of life, the real nature of our world and how to live in it. I’d like to digress here and say that -anyone- who separates themselves from their circumstances growing up for -any reason- is running away, and is an egomaniac. We got the cards we are dealt. We are a system within a system within a system and a part of the great unified consciousness, which is a whole other term paper in itself. (I’m not crazier than anyone else, I’ve just come to some pretty crazy conclusions, crazy by the majority’s standard… anyway…) I didn’t like being raised in that system, and I am not “over it”. Anger is a source of knowledge, particularly firsthand knowledge that a more concrete value system based on objective and subjective reality is better, whether or not it’s true with a capital T or any of that jazz. Frankly with what I know now I’d be worried about myself if I wasn’t angry. That and trying to bury the anger will just make me lay on the couch and go to sleep, and I’ll take being pissed off over sleep any day of the week, unless I need to go to work the next day, in that case the sleep would serve a purpose.

Anyway, my judgement comes from firsthand experience of learning of the possiblity of a better values system. Richard Rose’s (google if you’re in the dark on him… good writer… as with everything grain of salt, but he knew some stuff) “ways and means” committee, the way of interacting with the rest of the world. It takes a lot of work to straighten it out, I think if anything this might be closest to any one person’s life work. You say what you say with a loving heart to me, I appreciate that, and I thank you for it, and I thank you for valuing speaking with a loving heart.

You also talked about karmic forces. All karma is: Cause and Effect. If the effect is anger, then that is what it is. Again it is just the cards you are dealt and what you do with them. The results of your actions are just more cards. “When we don’t get what we want we get experience.” Get enough experience and hopefully one’s head gets straightened out… I am just to the point where I feel like my head got straightened out and I am still dealing with some bad “deals” (to continue the card metaphor).

I hope you weren’t hoping for the short explanation because there was the long one!

#25

Hi Amik,

This is becoming a very interesting post indeed. In one of your earlier reply you mentioned that you don’t know of any native tribe who asked forgiveness. Perhaps you haven’t heard about the South African Bushmen yet. A bit of history, the Bushmen (23 left in South Africa) wasn’t hunted (read killed, although some did occur) into extinction by other tribes (Blacks and Whites), but they died of all the strange illnesses and diseases which the Blacks brought down from North African during their diaspora down to Souther Africa and then later Whites who colonised South Africa. Anyway, it is a know fact that the Bushmen is one of the oldest races in the world and they are considered to be the craddle of humankind. Why they are on the brink of extinction, that I won’t go into in this post, but I belief it is part of the Divine Will.

Anyway, the Bushmen are also hunter-gathers and it is a known fact through many research projects undertaken by many people in South Africa that the Bushmen first pray for the soul of the animal they are about to kill, for this they have long and elaborate ceremonies the night before the hunt. When the animal has been killed then they first asked forgiveness (and this is not a Christian-Judeo exclusive practise) to the animal they killed and then go on to explain to the animal their reasons for killing him/her (usually because they have a family to feed and for them to survive).

About your anger about the people doing nothing. I read your explanation about anger, and yes perhaps you have to go through it, but remember you have a choice to change it all. What can we do to change the current world situation? As yogis we have to stop to be angry (anger is counter-productive and attracts negative energy) and replace our anger with words and thoughts which are conducive to change in the world. Our [B]intention [/B]is most important if we want to change things, when enough people around the world turn their intention to for example peace, eventually peace will prevail. My advice turn your thoughts and words to good intentions and they will eventually manifest, perhaps not in this life, but perhaps in a next.

The main thing about vegetarianism is not to get emotional about it, everybody is not the same and as a yogi we need to respect where each person is in his/her evolution. [B][I]As my own teacher sometimes say:“Judge not but for the Grace of God there go I.”[/I][/B]

#26

I am sorry putting forth a so radical approach. It was written on the impulse of the moment, without care.
To defend myself, you must know that most of the time I am talking to myself. I write and post to get things clear form myself, and It is not adressed to others, it is without any expectation.
Having made some posts on these forums, I often did find myself in contradiction with my former posts … so I am not pretending that I have all my things together.
But I am trying.

#27

hi Pandara,
There is much talk of asking for forgiveness from animals before killing them for consumption.
How about plants?
Fin

#28

Hi Fin,

There is a wonderful post I think under the thread of the Koshas which explains the levels of consciousness, if you read that it will explain why plants don’t the same treatment.

#29

maybe part of your process is to get angry and then once it gets hot enough it will boil what happnes when water boils, it turns to steam, what does steam do, evaporate the water, after enough evaporation the water is gone and your anger may go with it.

I grew up dysfunctional and for a long time was sad about it, at 5 my uncle killed himself and my mom said it was because he could not live any longer getting along better with his nephew then his own son. He was upset that we had a stronger relationship then his child. my mother told me this, when I was five. As a kid I sat on the front porch counting cars thinking that “when 50 cars pass by my dad will be here” for the once a month visit if I was lucky. many times I would count cars for an hour or more, cause he was always late.

My point is not to compare who had it worse, I used to live in a place in my mind of “no one understands me or how I feel, no one has gone through what I have gone through”

One day I learn to let go of most everything that has happened to me in this life, and whne I have a bad day there is only one question that I get stuck on anymore. I feel I understand with compassion why the world is the way it is and I pray for the world and souls to find balance most everyday. I pray for you as well

One day will come when you let go of your anger, maybe today, maybe tomorrow, whenever the time is right for you. Because that is what it is all about you. and once you find your place, the world will fall into place

good luck in your journey and thanks for your story
seeker

#30

Hi Amik,

Since it is my post that probably brought out the anger in you, I want to apologize for being a little too abrasive myself in my mention about asking God for forgiveness. It was just my opinion from my learning of yoga with my guru and also my Vedantic guru.

I salute each one of you who have attempted vegetarianism after having been a non-vegetarian. That is no easy task. As I said in my previous post, it is easy for me to preach vegetarianism, being a born vegetarian.

Much Peace