An old story

A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a famous martial artist. When he arrived at the dojo he was given an audience by the Sensei
"What do you wish from me?" the master asked.
“I wish to be your student and become the finest kareteka in the land,” the boy replied. “How long must I study?”
“Ten years at least,” the master answered.
“Ten years is a long time,” said the boy. “What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?”
“Twenty years,” replied the master.
“Twenty years! What if I practice day and night with all my effort?”
“Thirty years,” was the master’s reply.
“How is it that each time I say I will work harder, you tell me that it will take longer?” the boy asked.
“The answer is clear. When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the Way.”

It has been my experience that this story can be applied to many things

Just substitute kareteka and martial arts for what you are looking for.

When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the Way

I like this very much Yulaw. It is so true and timeless. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I have a plaque above my door that says, “The journey is its own reward.” I believe it was attributed to Homer. Similar idea.

Going into my Masters program, I find working two jobs which have nothing to do with my field of study/interest trying and taxing and “pulling away” from my time to write and work on assignments. (Excuses) Thank you for posting this. I am printing it out as a bookmark for my day planner.

It does not really make sense to me.

If you work twice as hard as somebody else for something, then you are going to get things done faster and better.

What you get out of life is what you put in.

Surya, Think of my quote. The journey is its own reward.

You are missing the point my friend. When you are working harder and faster you are only thinking of the result or destination. And what are you learning? It’s the learning on the way that matters, not how hard or fast you work.

The journey matters more than the destination? I disagree. If I am thirsity, I want water and I want it as soon as possible. I could get it by just going to the tap and filling myself a glass of water or I could get it by walking 10 miles to the nearest well. It is obvious which option most sensible people would prefer.

I never heard Patanjali said that the journey was more important. In fact he says that the goal is not far for those who put in the maximum work and effort in. The goal is enlightenment: pure bliss, pure knowledge and pure mind. Can you give me any reason why a sensible person would prefer to toil it out for several lifetimes over getting instant enlightenment?

I am sure if anybody here had the offer to be enlightened at the click of a finger they would take it up in a heartbeart. In my opinion, one would have to be a fool to reject such an offer.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37381]It does not really make sense to me.

If you work twice as hard as somebody else for something, then you are going to get things done faster and better.

What you get out of life is what you put in.[/QUOTE]

I’m not surprised that you have completely missed the point

[QUOTE=Yulaw;37388]I’m not surprised that you have completely missed the point[/QUOTE]

Namaste, I have missed the point in your opinion. In my opinion I am right on the ball.

This is pseudo-wisdom.

Surya Deva

It is nice to see you are still into throwing out inssaults in order to make you argument not matter how silly it may be when you have completely missed the point of a thing.

But you do make an interesting argument… althogh you are using an extreme example that does not necessarily fit the scenario in order to once again make an argument where one does not exist and force your beliefs down the throats of others…. we must agree or be prepared to defend ourselvs is the feeling I get from you… But sadly you again completely missed the point

Since the story is more related to Zen and Buddhism than Hinduism I would respectfully request that you do not turn this post into anther of your Crusades and go away… but you won’t

But then it is late where I am and I have little patience for you and I am on the verge of quoting my favorite philosopher, Popeye… I beleive it would be best to deal with you in a more Chinese fashion form now on… Yes by all means you are right. :slight_smile:

and now I bid you good night

What insult? I have said my opinion politely. On the contrary you have patronized me by saying “I am not surprised you have completely missed the point”

I have said nothing about Hinduism so far. You are the one bringing Hinduism up. I am offering my opinion on the story you quoted and the philosophy it teaches.

You need to get use to hearing other opinions.

I kinda disagree and agree with all of you.

I think the journey is very important, we don’t want to reach the destination in desperation. However, you also need to keep your eye on the destination, otherwise you might get lost on the way, or sidetracked, or even give up.

You and I have touched on this before Yulaw, and although I agree with you to some extent, I don’t think sitting back and letting things happen as they may is good either, in my opinion it is lazy and uncommitted. I am on a lively journey and I want to suck up as much as I can, that does not mean I don’t enjoy and appreciate every step of the way :slight_smile:

Let me see if I can clarify this a bit.

A few days ago I read an excellent post from Refine Us on this same subject. I want to share some of that post with you:
When we pursue the destination more passionately than we do the journey, we often miss both altogether.

Focusing on the destination allows you to achieve some goals and experience some success, but there is always a cost.

Seeking the destination has:

Cost me joy
Robbed me of memories
Caused me stress
Made me ungrateful
Left me discontent

What I have discovered is that God’s presence finds me on the journey. He is more concerned with who I am becoming than where I am arriving. Oddly enough, so is my wife; so are my kids.

What I have realized (often the hard way) is:

Intimacy grows on the journey
Moments are created on the journey
Contentment is found on the journey
Gratitude is overwhelming on the journey
Life is savored on the journey

Another way to look at the journey vs. the destination:

Say I was at home planning a trip to see my sister in Atlanta (which I do often!) I got my round trip ticket, planned some sight seeing, arranged for a nice dinner and planned to take her children out for a fun day. I had great fun planning my trip from HOME. It gave me great joy. I got on the plane, arrived in Atlanta, did all the things I had planned. I spent some wonderful quality time with my sister and her children. I learned that my nephew is interested in a girl at school. My sister noticed I was reading a Surya Das book and we had a wonderful conversation about spirituality. I learned things about my sister I never knew. Well, it was time to return HOME via plane. So, what was my final destination? It wasn’t Atlanta. It was back HOME. HOME was my final destination. But the journey of planning my trip, spending time with my family and learning some things was the most important part. That is not to say you cannot be aware of where you are going, but its how you get there that makes the destination oh so sweet and meaningful.

Does that help?

The journey is important in the sense that while you are on your way to destination you must also be mindful of the way and enjoy the way. In fact if we look at this more closely the destination itself unfolds the journey.

I was reading in the Master key System by Charles F Haanel that one should not worry too much about the way or journey but should begin with a very clear vision of the destination. You should visualise yourself as already getting there. This idea is also echoed by Steven Covey in his bestseller 7 habits of highly successful people. When you are clear about the destination the way starts to unfold by itself. Great inventors such as Nicole Tesla would often begin their inventions by first seeing it clearly in their mind, so clear that it is already invented, and then the actual process of physically making it was relatively effortless.

Suppose my destination is to become physically fit. I first need to visualise what kind of fitness I am aspiring for. Now suppose that kind of fitness is ideal natural health, balance, flexibility and adequate strength. Then the way becomes clear as well that I need to do some kind of natural type of exercise(Yoga) and eat a more natural and lighter diet, such as drink plenty of water, eat fruit and veg. On the other hand if my vision of physical fitness is beautiful looking muscles and strength, then the way is strength training and eating more protein.

As soon as one is clear about what they want, then getting it is relatively effortless. You simply glide towards it. When I go out shopping for instance, it is amazing how quickly I can get what I want. I make every transaction in my life swift. The other day one of my friends wanted to get some shoes and asked for me to go shop with him. I first asked him what price range and type he was looking for to be clear about what he wanted. He wanted the cheapest outdoor types shoes which were also durable. So I took him to the town centre and then within 15 min at first outdoor shop we went into, we found the shoes he wanted and had made the purchase. Fast, efficient and effective. Most people I know would have taken the entire day to do this. They would have gone from shop to shop comparing shoes, then comparing one to the other, and putting themselves in a dilemma.

Similarly even on the spiritual path we should be fast, efficient and effective. First be absolutely clear what is it that you want: enlightenment, self-management, relaxation, balance and know exactly what it means to have that and visualise yourself as already there. In my case it is enlightenment. So I am not beating around the bush. I have already made plans in advance of going to India and finding the right guru and spending at least 2 years doing what I am told. I have a single-minded focus and that is enlightenment in a fast, efficient and effective way.

I agree with omamana that just sitting back and letting things happen is simply laziness and uncommitment. A lot of spiritual people, especially those of Buddhist persuasion fall into this trap. Doing nothing in Zen does not mean literally do nothing. It means whatever you do, do it mindfully i.e., fill your mind with that. This is echoed in Conversations with God by Neal Walsh. ‘God’ says, “The secret of the masters is that whatever they do, they keep on doing it” Similarly Krishna teaches with the same with nishkama karma.

But don’t you see that it is the journey of doing the yoga, exercise, eating right, drinking plenty of water is what gets you there. It is not the vision of your destination that gets you there. It’s how you get there. It’s the process that helps us learn and gives us wisdom.

Similarly even on the spiritual path we should be fast, efficient and effective. First be absolutely clear what is it that you want: enlightenment, self-management, relaxation, balance and know exactly what it means to have that and visualise yourself as already there. In my case it is enlightenment. So I am not beating around the bush. I have already made plans in advance of going to India and finding the right guru and spending at least 2 years doing what I am told. I have a single-minded focus and that is enlightenment in a fast, efficient and effective way.

 And in my opinion, you'll never get there.  Enlightenment is not to be attained fast.  You know the process but have not gained the wisdom you learn along the way.

William Osler wrote a poem on his way to give the commencement speech at Yale University in 1913. It is very appropriate to this discussion and I keep a copy of this treasured book on my coffee table.

"Listen to the exhortation of the dawn!
Look to this day!
For it is Life, the very life of life.
In its brief course lie all the
Varieties and realities of your existence:
The bliss of growth,
The glory of action,
The splendour of beauty;
For yesterday is but a dream
And tomorrow is only a vision;
But today well lived makes
Every yesterday a dream of happiness,
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
Look well therefore to the day!
Such is the salutation of the dawn!

Beautifully states the point. There is another quote in his book I like, “Let the limit of your horizon be a 24 hour circle.”

His speech to the Yale students was based on his above poem. Thinking about the future doesn’t get you there. The process gets you there. We are not guaranteed tomorrow so live for today. He talks about short range goals as opposed to long range. I’m sure the book is hard to find, but it is timeless in its message.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37387]
I am sure if anybody here had the offer to be enlightened at the click of a finger they would take it up in a heartbeart. In my opinion, one would have to be a fool to reject such an offer.[/QUOTE]

I believe the point of the quotation is that one cannot reach enlightenment by striving for it but rather by experiencing all that life offers. It happens not as a result of your work but as a sidebar. Ignoring the wisdom of our elders and teachers is endemic these days.

Yulaw, I have always loved this one too, it speaks to how brash humans can be and how focussed we can be on what is not truly important.

Lotusgirl ji,

I know that poem well, it is one of my favourites. This poem is not by William Osler, it is by the ancient Sanskrit poet Kalidasa.

You said, “Enlightenment is not to be attained fast.” The spiritual masters seem to disagree with you. Buddha did not wait around to attain enlightenment. He dedicated some 10 years of his life to enlightenment single mindedly. He tried out various Yogic meditation techniques and finally got his enlightenment under the Bodhagaya tree after meditating straight for 40 days. Patanjali says that those put in the most work to their practice get enlightenment quickly. The Zen masters talk about “Satori” instant enlightenment. The most popular method is giving the disciple a koan that will instantly break their rational mind(in practice of course it seldom works like that) The Siddhas give instant enlightenment through shaktipat by awakening the Kundalini. Babaji and Swami Yogananda Paramhansa teach Kriya Yoga as the fastest method to getting to enlightenment.

I don’t think your belief is sensible at all that enlightenment should not be attained fast. Like I said if you are thirsty and you want to drink you can either go directly to the tap in the kichen and have a glass of water or you can walk ten miles to the nearest well. It sounds like you would prefer to walk ten miles to the nearest well.

Those who know what their goal is, resolve on their goal and attain it quite quickly. It is they who don’t know their goal who wait around. Buddha wanted enlightenment. He got it. You first need to really want something deeply at the level of the soul before you get it. I recall a story when Ramakrishna encountered somebody wanting to be his disciple near a lake. Ramakrishna took them near the lake, and then suddenly and forcibly pushed the head of his disciple under the lake and held it down to the point the disciple began to suffocate and gasp for his last air. At that moment he released him, and said, “When you want spiritual liberation as bad as you wanted that last bit of breath, then come back to me”

It sounds like to me Lotusgirl you are trying to justify being uncommital and lazy about your goals in life. Of course you are entitled to those views. However, with all due respect, I am going to go with what these enlightenened masters are saying. As what you are teaching, in my opinion, is a sure-fire way to failure.

[QUOTE=Alix;37423]I believe the point of the quotation is that one cannot reach enlightenment by striving for it but rather by experiencing all that life offers. It happens not as a result of your work but as a sidebar. Ignoring the wisdom of our elders and teachers is endemic these days.

Yulaw, I have always loved this one too, it speaks to how brash humans can be and how focussed we can be on what is not truly important. [/QUOTE]

Yes. I have read the authors that SD cited and although he gets the gist of it, some of the subtle nuances are lost.

If I may use another analogy; imagine a doorway on the second storey of a building. 2 people can clearly see and visualize the doorway, then they can see and visualize the steps to get there. Each step contains an important key to opening the door. One person can leap 2 steps at a time and reach the door, but must return to the bottom and take the alternate steps in order to retrieve all the keys. The other takes each step at a time carefully retrieving each key. That person will open the door in half the time.

I stand corrected in the author of the poem. It is Kalidasa. Osler wrote in underneath his commencement speech as a way of reinforcing what he was trying to say. My book does not attribute it Kalidasa, hence I thought Osler wrote it.

My how you can take things out of context! Again Surya, you are not listening to what people say!

You do not know me and cannot make assumptions about me. I have in no way indicated that in my response. What you are not seeing is that your goal should not be how fast you can reach enlightenment. You can have a goal of reaching enlightenment, but the way to attainment is through short term goals. This is how you learn and this is how you will reach ultimate enlightenment.

Short term goals are simply managable chunks of your long term goal. So if I was practicing Patanjali’s ashtanga path I would divide my long term goal into the short term goal of mastering yama and niyamas, asana, pranayama, pratyhara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi. On the other hand if I am practicing Kriya Yoga which is taught technique by technique I first master the first technique, before moving onto the next.

Either way how fast I get to my long term goal depends on how quickly I complete my series of short term goals. This is directly proportional to how much effort I put in. If I do things slowly I will get to my goal slowly.

I feel perhaps you have missed the point of what Buddha meant when he said all is suffering. He meant that as long as we are in samsara we are always suffering. What should a sensible person do when they put their hand in fire(not very sensible in the first, but lets work with it), do they keep their hand in fire or do they retract their hand from the fire? Likewise, when a sensible knows they are suffering, they seek to end that suffering as quickly as they can. Just as Buddha did.

We do not have all the time in the world to wait around or do things at a slow leisurely pace. In fact, anytime, this body could be over. I told this to my friend recently who like you was telling me, “We don’t have to rush, we can go at our own pace. We are eternal beings” I responded with the traditional Eastern answer, “a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step” he has to start sometime. What he does not realise that his procrastination of starting the spiritual process is creating a habit of procrastination in his mind which will get stronger and stronger. Before he knows it, his time will be up, he will have to come back and start the whole process again with an even stronger karma against him. This is why I have realised now that I know what the goal of my soul is to start the journey as soon as possible. I have made the mental commitment and now I am in the process of making the physical commitment.

My friends who know me well know that I will succeed, because they know my will power is very strong. If I resolve on something, I do it. I was non vegetarian for most of my life. One day when I reached mental realization that meat was not good for my soul, I stopped eating meat within a heartbeat. Never looked back since. Not even had thoughts of wanting meat. Never had any problems. Similarly, I can just by willing it stop drinking alcohol, abstain from sex for as long as I want, without having any cravings. I know few people in my life that have will power as strong as I do. This is probably because I have a very strong soul.

Real spirituality, in my opinion is only for those who have intensity, commitment and direction. The rest practice ordinary worldly living and pretend to be spiritual. I will admit at this moment I am not really spiritual. I am practicing ordinary wordly living like everybody else. I am no more enlightened than your average joe. However, when it comes to mental realization I am more than your average joe.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37434]I am no more enlightened than your average joe. However, when it comes to mental realization I am more than your average joe.[/QUOTE]

I like this :stuck_out_tongue: