I am splitting of this discussion from the thread “Ethical Christianity” because it is off-topic there and possibly a very fascinating discussion that will challenge our accepted views on history and origins of humans. The traditional account in Christian dominated education is the origins of human civilisation begin around 10,000 years ago, with the first civilisation being the Sumerian civilisation(the birth place of Abrahamic religions)
But there is a chink in this story and that chink is the Indian civilisation. The Indus valley civilisation has proven to be even older than than the Sumerian civilisation and far more scientifically advanced - with cities which are built very much like modern cities. The oldest archeaological remains discovered so far are sophisticated urban cities dating 7000BCE.
The Indian records themselves record extreme human antiquity and record 6 civilisations that have arisen and fallen before us. The most recent recordered in Indian records is the Rama civilisation which is dated to the Treta yuga 1M years ago! The south Indian have records of massive sunken continents 15,000 years ago.
If one reads the Indian historical literature one is amazed to find references to flying aircraft, weapons of mass destruction, robots, spectrometers, miscroscopes. Could it be that this is actually real and the current Christian dominated education system is not giving us the true picture of human history on this planet?
From Hindpedia, a very credible and accurate source for Hinduism:
They mention weapons of mass destruction akin to nuclear weapons. For example, the effects of the Agneya Astra when used offensively in the Mahabharata are described as
a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire, and let it off on all sides,…Endued with fiery flames…Meteors flashed down…A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the (Pandava) host. All the points of the compass also were enveloped by that darkness…Inauspicious winds began to blow. The sun himself no longer gave any heat…The very elements seemed to be perturbed…The universe, scorched with heat, seemed to be in a fever…The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element…seemed to burn. From all the points of the compass, cardinal and subsidiary, from the firmament and the very earth, showers of sharp and fierce arrows fell and issued with the impetuosity of Garuda or the wind…the hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down by a raging fire. Huge elephants, burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth all around, uttering fierce cries loud as the rumblings of the clouds…The steeds, O king, and the cars also, burnt by the energy of that weapon, looked, O sire, like the tops of trees burnt in a forest-fire. Thousands of cars fell down on all sides. Indeed, O Bharata, it seemed that the divine lord Agni burnt the (Pandava) host in that battle, like the Samvarta fire consuming everything at the end of the Yuga…Burnt by the energy of Aswatthaman’s weapon, the forms of the slain could not be distinguished.[1][2]
The usage of the Agneya astra by Aswatthaman resulted in the death of a full Akshauhini [218,700] of the Pandava troops. In comparison, the nuclear bomb dropped on
Hiroshima killed 60,000-80,000 people
Nagasaki killed 90,000-166,000 people
They also describe non-lethal weapons such as the Sanmohana astra and the Pramohana astra which could make people lose consciousness [3][4].
I can’t really validate Mahabarata, for once Zecharia Sitchin also claimed same sort of thing that there had been a war in Sodoma and Gomorra, in Israel, among so-called Anunnakis, Nephilims, and sort. He had shown the burst marks on stones as evidence, yet I have not heard any modern scientist went there and invesitigated for fallout traces.
Yes, there is a lot of overlapping evidence, yet far from being precise. It might after all be a hokey attempt lump everything together.
The difference here is the Sitchin renders a dubious reading of the Sumerian tablets reading into them spaceships, genetic technology, 12 planets - but none of his scholars actually agree wit this. In other words his translation of the Sumerian tablets is only specific to him and not peer reviewed. Now, I cannot speak Sumerian so I cannot pick up the clay tablets and read them to see if they really say what Sitchin claims. So I have to trust the scholarship on this that Sitchin’s readings are dubious. In the case of the Mahabharata, there is no disagreement on its translation. It is peer reviewed by Sanskrit scholars and the above excerpts do indeed occur in the Mahabharata. It does indeed describe weapons of mass destruction.
I will find you more sources to confirm the stories that the skeletons found at the Indus valley site were highly radioactive.
So how much do you want 2 + 2 to be? By the way, I thought the OT was the only scripture that condoned the mass murder of hundreds of thousands.
Mahabharata does not condone the mass murder of hundreds of thousands. Mahabharata is a historical text that describes what happend in India(it literally means the great history of Bharata dynasty) It describes the life and deeds of many important historical figures in that time period(Bharata, Vyassa, Yudishstra, Arjuna, Bhima, Krishna, Duryodhana) and the events that took place, culminating in the great war in the end between the pandavas and the kuruvs. There is no genocide described in the Mahabharata - but rather wars that used weapons of mass destruction. Do you describe the nuclear bomb used on Japan as a genocide?
[QUOTE=Asuri;48548]You’re acting like a gullible schoolgirl, i.e., you are accepting this non-critically because you think it advances your cause.[/QUOTE]
You are rejecting this uncritically, because you think it advances my cause
I am starting to now get an estimation of just how much the Christian bias in academia is suppressing the truth from getting out in all areas of knowledge.
The following documentary was featured on NBC entitled, “Mysterious origins of man” It documents the evidence found by some archeaologists and geologists which completely refutes the current accepted theory of the origins of modern humans. It shows that artefacts have in fact been discovered from extreme prehistoric times, as far back as 2 billion years ago of modern humans! I found this incredibly interesting, because the Sanskrit records mention that the first human habitation on this planet was 2 billion years ago!
The documentary also mentions how obviously technologically advanced cities have been in the Americas dating up to 17,000 years ago. These megalithic structures are made out blocks weighting several tons, precisely cut to assemble the city, which is also astronomically aligned! Evidence is also shown for how the Sphinx is far older than is accepted and dates to 10,000 years ago. Modern human artefacts(such as footprints, fossiled fingers) have been dating to the times of the dinosaurs!
None of this evidence has been refuted, but rather it has simply been ignored altogether by the scientific community, although it has been discovered and documented in the scientific literature.
None of this evidence has been refuted, but rather it has simply been ignored altogether by the scientific community, although it has been discovered and documented in the scientific literature.
Of course. Otherwise a lot of books would have to be burned! One reason is obviously money. Second reason is retaining the alleged prestige of established professorships on falsified stuff. There could be other reasons, per se. Procrastination maybe :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48543]I am splitting of this discussion from the thread “Ethical Christianity” because it is off-topic there and possibly a very fascinating discussion that will challenge our accepted views on history and origins of humans. The traditional account in Christian dominated education is the origins of human civilisation begin around 10,000 years ago, with the first civilisation being the Sumerian civilisation(the birth place of Abrahamic religions)
But there is a chink in this story and that chink is the Indian civilisation. The Indus valley civilisation has proven to be even older than than the Sumerian civilisation and far more scientifically advanced - with cities which are built very much like modern cities. The oldest archeaological remains discovered so far are sophisticated urban cities dating 7000BCE.
The Indian records themselves record extreme human antiquity and record 6 civilisations that have arisen and fallen before us. The most recent recordered in Indian records is the Rama civilisation which is dated to the Treta yuga 1M years ago! The south Indian have records of massive sunken continents 15,000 years ago.
If one reads the Indian historical literature one is amazed to find references to flying aircraft, weapons of mass destruction, robots, spectrometers, miscroscopes. Could it be that this is actually real and the current Christian dominated education system is not giving us the true picture of human history on this planet?
From Hindpedia, a very credible and accurate source for Hinduism:
They mention weapons of mass destruction akin to nuclear weapons. For example, the effects of the Agneya Astra when used offensively in the Mahabharata are described as
a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire, and let it off on all sides,?Endued with fiery flames?Meteors flashed down?A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the (Pandava) host. All the points of the compass also were enveloped by that darkness…Inauspicious winds began to blow. The sun himself no longer gave any heat?The very elements seemed to be perturbed…The universe, scorched with heat, seemed to be in a fever?The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element?seemed to burn. From all the points of the compass, cardinal and subsidiary, from the firmament and the very earth, showers of sharp and fierce arrows fell and issued with the impetuosity of Garuda or the wind?the hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down by a raging fire. Huge elephants, burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth all around, uttering fierce cries loud as the rumblings of the clouds?The steeds, O king, and the cars also, burnt by the energy of that weapon, looked, O sire, like the tops of trees burnt in a forest-fire. Thousands of cars fell down on all sides. Indeed, O Bharata, it seemed that the divine lord Agni burnt the (Pandava) host in that battle, like the Samvarta fire consuming everything at the end of the Yuga?Burnt by the energy of Aswatthaman’s weapon, the forms of the slain could not be distinguished.[1][2]
The usage of the Agneya astra by Aswatthaman resulted in the death of a full Akshauhini [218,700] of the Pandava troops. In comparison, the nuclear bomb dropped on
Hiroshima killed 60,000-80,000 people
Nagasaki killed 90,000-166,000 people
They also describe non-lethal weapons such as the Sanmohana astra and the Pramohana astra which could make people lose consciousness [3][4].
The above are clear descriptions of weapons of mass destruction. Is it not ironic that the weapons described in the Mahabharata actually exist today?[/QUOTE]
Ahh, the Mahabharata War and the debate over whether it actually describes prehistoric nuclear weapons.
By the way, wasn’t that the Narayana Astra described, the one Aswatthama used after Dristadyumna killed Drona?
Anyway, as a scientist at heart, I cannot accept these theories. It highly unlikely such events could have happened. WMD’s did not exist back then. The human was still evolving in the times the Puranas say these things happened. Enough said.
As a scientist, we should not be biassed to any theory or concept.We should simply allow the evidence to dictate to us. If we consider the evidence so far presented, one would have to come up with some explanations to explain how and why this is the case.
Why are the Indus cities highly modern and precisely planned, with middle-class like arrangement, houses, streets, lanes, boulevards and why is the lower stratra of the city even more advanced than than the higher strata?
We are talking about up to 10,000 years ago. A similar level of advancement is not found until modern times.
Then consider the evidence presented in the documentary I linked we have found evidence of advanced engineering skill and civilisation going back 17,000 years in South America, where we find many mysterious massive structures like the heads on Easter island. Similarly, we find in Egypt evidence of advanced engineering done to construct the Giza Pyramid. The are unmistkable signs that machines have been used its construction, pointed out by some engineers which have noted how precisely the stones have been cut, how stone blocks weighing up to hundreds of tons which not even modern cranes can lift, were raised several feet(impossible to explain by any primitive methods)
The consider the artefacts we have found of modern human like fossils going back millions of years.
What this all goes to show that the history we are taught of human origins on this planet must be wrong. We cannot simply ignore all this evidence staring us in in the face.
The Mahabharata describes real events which have been corroborated by archeaologists. For example, the Mahabharata describes that the Saraswati river had changed course and started to dry up. Until there recently, this fabled Saraswati river was not found. Then it was accidentally discovered through a space satellite, and indeed it was found that this river dried up completely by 1900BCE(coinciding with the time of the Mahabharata) The Mahabharata also describes the submergence of Dwarika city and indeed archeaologists, headed by a chief Indian archeaologist Rao have now discovered Dwarika exactly where it was was said to be found, submerged under water. It is a massive metropolis now under water. Geologists have been able to calculate exactly when the city when under water and the cause for its flooding. Therefore it is clear the Mahabharata is a real historical event(and indeed it is mentioned to be history in Indian records)
Obviously the archeaological evidence and the current accepted history of the world are completely at odds with one another. Even you accept this because you reject Aryan invasion theory.
We should also consider the fact that if it is true that modern-like humans have been on this planet for millions of years, it is almost certain that they would have developed technology well beyond our own. It did not take long for Western civilisation to develop technology after the enlightenment. In under 500 years we went from horse driven carriages to space shuttles.
We have several out of place artefacts in history which suggest that human development has not been linear at all. The following are all confirmed artefacts: Planned modern like cities in 3000BCE; the antikeythra mechanism, portable mechnical computer to calculate astronomical movements in Greece before the common era(there is a description of this mehnical computer in King Bhoja’s text on engineering in the chapter on machines(yantras) describing several machines that were known in antiquity. It also describes other machines like elevators, and flying aircraft!) The Baghdad battery and the evidence of electroplating used by the Egyptians.
Obviously the actual evidence we have found does not tally up with the accepted version of history. It suggests that there have been technological cultures on this planet before which have risen and fallen several times.
Surya Deva I have long seen that article about the “highly radioactive site.” It is an unverified source. The IVC collapsed due to ecological factors, not due to nuclear weapons.
By the way, this “sudden abandonment theory” was used by the idiot Indologists to justify the AIT. Further examinations of he skeletons showed that the people were not killed or maimed or anything like that.
I am splitting this off from the other thread because the discussion is more relevant here. I think I agree with you, after investigating the source for the radioactive skeleton story I realised the oversight in my acceptance of it, it appears the story was first published by a Soviet scientist who took some of the skeletons back to Russia and had them tested to find they had 50 times the radiation of natural radiation. However, as you rightfully have said no confirmation has been found of this story. I also remembered my physics now, that the radioactive isotopes would have long since been spent if there was a nuclear blast thousands of years ago, so it is impossible for the skeletons to be radioactive still.
However, the fact still remains that the Mahabharata does contain descriptions of a weapon very much like a nuclear weapon that caused mass causalities(218,700) and descriptions of weapons that can cause one to lose conscousness like modern day chemical weapons. This cannot be overlooked and deserves through investigation because the Mahabharata is describing real history. It also describes the use of missles, such as the one Krishna deploys against Salva’s invisible aircraft to seek out heat(a heat seeking missile)
Some corroborating sources to evidence the information I have given:
Antikyethra mechanism:
The Antikythera mechanism (pronounced /ˌ?ntɨkɨˈθɪərə/ ANT-i-ki-THEER-ə or pronounced /ˌ?ntɨˈkɪθərə/ ANT-i-KITH-ə-rə), is an ancient mechanical computer[1][2] designed to calculate astronomical positions. It was recovered in 1900–01 from the Antikythera wreck.[3] Its significance and complexity were not understood until decades later. Its time of construction is now estimated between 150 and 100 BCE.[4] The degree of mechanical sophistication is comparable to a 19th century Swiss clock.[5]
The device is remarkable for the level of miniaturization and for the complexity of its parts, which is comparable to that of 19th century clocks. It has over 30 gears, although Michael Wright (see below) has suggested as many as 72 gears, with teeth formed through equilateral triangles. When a date was entered via a crank (now lost), the mechanism calculated the position of the Sun, Moon, or other astronomical information such as the location of other planets. Since the purpose was to position astronomical bodies with respect to the celestial sphere, with reference to the observer's position on the surface of the Earth, the device was based on the geocentric model.[13]
The mechanism has a sophistication that has excited researchers. It’s way beyond what historians thought the Greeks were capable of. It has a compactness of design that was not duplicated by later, similar mechanisms, which only appeared about 1,400 years after it’s estimated this device was made.
This is an exciting find. I would rank it up there with the discovery of the Archimedes Palimpsest, which reveals some things about Archimedes’s mathematical knowledge. This was also quite stunning.
I recently wrote a post on the computers and designs that Charles Babbage created, and I said that when I was in Jr. high school he was the earliest creator of mechanical computers I had found. What I did not say (though I talked about it in an earlier post) is that when I was in high school, I had found out about an earlier mechanism, the Pascaline, invented by Blaise Pascal in 1642, though it was much simpler. It was an adding machine. In terms of the sophistication of computing devices, the Antikythera Mechanism bests everything before Babbage, as far as we know, who began his work on automatic computers in 1821.
The Baghdad Battery, sometimes referred to as the Parthian Battery, is the common name for a number of artifacts created in Mesopotamia, in during the Iranian dynasties of Parthian or Sassanid period (the early centuries AD), and probably discovered in 1936 in the village of Khuyut Rabbou'a, near Baghdad, Iraq. These artifacts came to wider attention in 1938 when Wilhelm K?nig, the German director of the National Museum of Iraq, found the objects in the museum's collections. In 1940, K?nig published a paper speculating that they may have been galvanic cells, perhaps used for electroplating gold onto silver objects.[2] This interpretation continues to be considered as at least a hypothetical possibility. If correct, the artifacts would predate Alessandro Volta's 1800 invention of the electrochemical cell by more than a millennium.
The artifacts consist of terracotta jars approximately 130 mm (5 in) tall (with a one and a half inch mouth) containing a copper cylinder made of a rolled-up copper sheet, which houses a single iron rod. At the top, the iron rod is isolated from the copper by bitumen plugs or stoppers, and both rod and cylinder fit snugly inside the opening of the jar, which bulges outward towards the middle. The copper cylinder is not watertight, so if the jar was filled with a liquid containing citric acid, this would surround the iron rod as well. The artifact had been exposed to the weather and had suffered corrosion, although mild given the presence of an electrochemical couple. This has led some scholars[who?] to believe lemon juice, grape juice, or vinegar was used[citation needed] as an acidic electrolyte solution to generate an electric current from the difference between the electrochemical potentials of the copper and iron electrodes.
2,200-year-old clay jar found near Baghdad, Iraq, has been described as the oldest known electric battery in existence. The clay jar and others like it are part of the holdings of the National Museum of Iraq and have been attributed to the Parthian Empire — an ancient Asian culture that ruled most of the Middle East from 247 B.C. to A.D. 228. The jar itself has been dated to sometime around 200 B.C. It was first described in 1938 by German archaeologist Wilhelm Konig, and to this day, it is uncertain whether Konig dug it up himself or found it archived in the museum. So how is it that a 2,200-year-old clay jar can be called a battery?
Those who’ve examined it closely say that there’s little else that it can be. The nondescript earthen jar is only 5? inches high by 3 inches across. The opening was sealed with an asphalt plug, which held in place a copper sheet, rolled into a tube.This tube was capped at the bottom with a copper disc held in place by more asphalt. A narrow iron rod was stuck through the upper asphalt plug and hung down into the center of the copper tube — not touching any part of it.
The inner workings of the Baghdad Battery
Fill the jar with an acidic liquid, such as vinegar or fermented grape juice, and you have yourself a battery capable of generating a small current. The acidic liquid permits a flow of electrons from the copper tube to the iron rod when the two metal terminals are connected. This is basically the same principle that was discovered by Galvani 2,000 years later and that Volta successfully harnessed into the first modern battery a few years later.
Sanskrit engineering and technical literature describing various machines:
An electric battery to perform the function of electrolysis:
Ancient India - In the Prince's Library of Ujjain in India, there is a well preserved document called the 'Agastya Samshita', which dates back to the first millennium BC. It contains a detailed description not only of how to construct an electric battery/cell, but also, how to utilize the battery to 'split' water into its constituent gasses. (2)
The text runs as follows:
“Place a well-cleaned copper plate in an earthenware vessel. Cover it first by copper sulfate and then moist sawdust. After that put a mercury-amalgamated-zinc sheet on top of an energy known by the twin name of Mitra-Varuna. Water will be split by this current into Pranavayu and Udanavayu. A chain of one hundred jars is said to give a very active and effective force.”
A description of a flying aircraft, its engine and flight instructions:
The Indian sacred scriptures make numerous references to flight. Incredibly, the most ancient and sacred texts discuss high speed manoeuvres, invisibility, and even a flight to the moon.
The Samaranga Sutradhara, contains over 200 stanzas concerning almost every aspect of flying. The International Academy of Sanskrit research conducted a special study into this work and published its findings in a book entitled Aeronautics, a Manuscript From the Prehistoric Past. What emerged was a knowledge of avaiation - machines, and equipment, that came astonishingly close to what we know today.
These ancient texts speak of the flying machines as Vimanas. They possessed "carefully welded joints", and were heated and driven "by controlled fire from the iron containers..." . This sounds remarkably like modern jet powered planes, even down to the noise that they made. This was like "the roar of a lion", by which the whole thing was set in motion so that "the traveller sitting inside the Vimana may travel in the air, to such a distance as to look like a pearl in the sky"!
The Hindu Samaranga Sutadhara contains 230 stanzas that are devoted to flight. It describes in detail, every possible aspect of flying. The International Academy off Sanskrit Research in Mysore, India, conducted a study of the ancient texts and published its findings in a book called 'Aeronautics, a manuscript From the Prehistoric Past'. The following are a few translated excerpts from the text:
'The aircraft which can go by its own force like a bird - on the earth or water or through the air - is called a Vimana. That which can travel in the sky from place to place is called a Vimana by the sage of old.'
'The body must be strong and durable and built of a light wood [Lagha-daru], shaped like a bird in flight with wings outstretched [mahavinhanga]. Within it must be placed the mercury engine, with its heating apparatus made of iron underneath'.
'In the larger craft [Daru-vimana], because it is built heavier, [alaghu], four strong containers of mercury must be built into the interior. When these are heated by controlled fire from the iron containers, the Vimana possesses thunder power through the mercury. The iron engine must have properly welded joints to be filled with mercury, and when the fire is conducted to the upper parts, it develops power with the roar of a lion. By means of the energy latent in mercury, the driving whirlwind is set in motion, and the traveller sitting inside the Vimana may travel in the air, to such a distance as to look like a pearl in the sky'.(2).
Note: The references to flying aircraft in Sanskrit literature is found throughout Sanskrit literature. It is described in the Rig Veda, in the Mahabharata, Puranas, shastras as actual machines that were used. In Kautaliyas shastra on statecraft and economics, he mentions the word "air force" and gives policies! The description of aircraft being seen in India is given by Alexandra the great when he attempted to invade India.
In summary: The above are not speculations, but actual real artefacts. They show us very clearly the ancients had knowledge on electricity and built electric batteries, built mechanical computers and built aircraft. This clearly then suggests technological cultures have risen and fallen throughout human history, and we are not the first technological culture on this planet. If it is true human history really goes go back millions of years, it is not a far stretch to imagine civilisations more advanced than our own in our distant past.
I think it is more or less uncontestabe that the current history we are being taught of human origins and origins of civilisation is wrong. On the contraty, there is hard evidence to show that modern human origins go back millions of years and civilisation likewise does too.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48641]Some corroborating sources to evidence the information I have given:
Antikyethra mechanism:
The Antikythera mechanism (pronounced /ˌ?ntɨkɨˈθɪərə/ ANT-i-ki-THEER-ə or pronounced /ˌ?ntɨˈkɪθərə/ ANT-i-KITH-ə-rə), is an ancient mechanical computer[1][2] designed to calculate astronomical positions. It was recovered in 1900?01 from the Antikythera wreck.[3] Its significance and complexity were not understood until decades later. Its time of construction is now estimated between 150 and 100 BCE.[4] The degree of mechanical sophistication is comparable to a 19th century Swiss clock.[5]
The device is remarkable for the level of miniaturization and for the complexity of its parts, which is comparable to that of 19th century clocks. It has over 30 gears, although Michael Wright (see below) has suggested as many as 72 gears, with teeth formed through equilateral triangles. When a date was entered via a crank (now lost), the mechanism calculated the position of the Sun, Moon, or other astronomical information such as the location of other planets. Since the purpose was to position astronomical bodies with respect to the celestial sphere, with reference to the observer's position on the surface of the Earth, the device was based on the geocentric model.[13]
The mechanism has a sophistication that has excited researchers. It?s way beyond what historians thought the Greeks were capable of. It has a compactness of design that was not duplicated by later, similar mechanisms, which only appeared about 1,400 years after it?s estimated this device was made.
This is an exciting find. I would rank it up there with the discovery of the Archimedes Palimpsest, which reveals some things about Archimedes?s mathematical knowledge. This was also quite stunning.
I recently wrote a post on the computers and designs that Charles Babbage created, and I said that when I was in Jr. high school he was the earliest creator of mechanical computers I had found. What I did not say (though I talked about it in an earlier post) is that when I was in high school, I had found out about an earlier mechanism, the Pascaline, invented by Blaise Pascal in 1642, though it was much simpler. It was an adding machine. In terms of the sophistication of computing devices, the Antikythera Mechanism bests everything before Babbage, as far as we know, who began his work on automatic computers in 1821.
The Baghdad Battery, sometimes referred to as the Parthian Battery, is the common name for a number of artifacts created in Mesopotamia, in during the Iranian dynasties of Parthian or Sassanid period (the early centuries AD), and probably discovered in 1936 in the village of Khuyut Rabbou'a, near Baghdad, Iraq. These artifacts came to wider attention in 1938 when Wilhelm K?nig, the German director of the National Museum of Iraq, found the objects in the museum's collections. In 1940, K?nig published a paper speculating that they may have been galvanic cells, perhaps used for electroplating gold onto silver objects.[2] This interpretation continues to be considered as at least a hypothetical possibility. If correct, the artifacts would predate Alessandro Volta's 1800 invention of the electrochemical cell by more than a millennium.
The artifacts consist of terracotta jars approximately 130 mm (5 in) tall (with a one and a half inch mouth) containing a copper cylinder made of a rolled-up copper sheet, which houses a single iron rod. At the top, the iron rod is isolated from the copper by bitumen plugs or stoppers, and both rod and cylinder fit snugly inside the opening of the jar, which bulges outward towards the middle. The copper cylinder is not watertight, so if the jar was filled with a liquid containing citric acid, this would surround the iron rod as well. The artifact had been exposed to the weather and had suffered corrosion, although mild given the presence of an electrochemical couple. This has led some scholars[who?] to believe lemon juice, grape juice, or vinegar was used[citation needed] as an acidic electrolyte solution to generate an electric current from the difference between the electrochemical potentials of the copper and iron electrodes.
2,200-year-old clay jar found near Baghdad, Iraq, has been described as the oldest known electric battery in existence. The clay jar and others like it are part of the holdings of the National Museum of Iraq and have been attributed to the Parthian Empire ? an ancient Asian culture that ruled most of the Middle East from 247 B.C. to A.D. 228. The jar itself has been dated to sometime around 200 B.C. It was first described in 1938 by German archaeologist Wilhelm Konig, and to this day, it is uncertain whether Konig dug it up himself or found it archived in the museum. So how is it that a 2,200-year-old clay jar can be called a battery?
Those who?ve examined it closely say that there?s little else that it can be. The nondescript earthen jar is only 5? inches high by 3 inches across. The opening was sealed with an asphalt plug, which held in place a copper sheet, rolled into a tube.This tube was capped at the bottom with a copper disc held in place by more asphalt. A narrow iron rod was stuck through the upper asphalt plug and hung down into the center of the copper tube ? not touching any part of it.
The inner workings of the Baghdad Battery
Fill the jar with an acidic liquid, such as vinegar or fermented grape juice, and you have yourself a battery capable of generating a small current. The acidic liquid permits a flow of electrons from the copper tube to the iron rod when the two metal terminals are connected. This is basically the same principle that was discovered by Galvani 2,000 years later and that Volta successfully harnessed into the first modern battery a few years later.
Sanskrit engineering and technical literature describing various machines:
An electric battery to perform the function of electrolysis:
Ancient India - In the Prince's Library of Ujjain in India, there is a well preserved document called the 'Agastya Samshita', which dates back to the first millennium BC. It contains a detailed description not only of how to construct an electric battery/cell, but also, how to utilize the battery to 'split' water into its constituent gasses. (2)
The text runs as follows:
?Place a well-cleaned copper plate in an earthenware vessel. Cover it first by copper sulfate and then moist sawdust. After that put a mercury-amalgamated-zinc sheet on top of an energy known by the twin name of Mitra-Varuna. Water will be split by this current into Pranavayu and Udanavayu. A chain of one hundred jars is said to give a very active and effective force.?
A description of a flying aircraft, its engine and flight instructions:
The Indian sacred scriptures make numerous references to flight. Incredibly, the most ancient and sacred texts discuss high speed manoeuvres, invisibility, and even a flight to the moon.
The Samaranga Sutradhara, contains over 200 stanzas concerning almost every aspect of flying. The International Academy of Sanskrit research conducted a special study into this work and published its findings in a book entitled Aeronautics, a Manuscript From the Prehistoric Past. What emerged was a knowledge of avaiation - machines, and equipment, that came astonishingly close to what we know today.
These ancient texts speak of the flying machines as Vimanas. They possessed "carefully welded joints", and were heated and driven "by controlled fire from the iron containers..." . This sounds remarkably like modern jet powered planes, even down to the noise that they made. This was like "the roar of a lion", by which the whole thing was set in motion so that "the traveller sitting inside the Vimana may travel in the air, to such a distance as to look like a pearl in the sky"!
The Hindu Samaranga Sutadhara contains 230 stanzas that are devoted to flight. It describes in detail, every possible aspect of flying. The International Academy off Sanskrit Research in Mysore, India, conducted a study of the ancient texts and published its findings in a book called 'Aeronautics, a manuscript From the Prehistoric Past'. The following are a few translated excerpts from the text:
'The aircraft which can go by its own force like a bird - on the earth or water or through the air - is called a Vimana. That which can travel in the sky from place to place is called a Vimana by the sage of old.'
'The body must be strong and durable and built of a light wood [Lagha-daru], shaped like a bird in flight with wings outstretched [mahavinhanga]. Within it must be placed the mercury engine, with its heating apparatus made of iron underneath'.
'In the larger craft [Daru-vimana], because it is built heavier, [alaghu], four strong containers of mercury must be built into the interior. When these are heated by controlled fire from the iron containers, the Vimana possesses thunder power through the mercury. The iron engine must have properly welded joints to be filled with mercury, and when the fire is conducted to the upper parts, it develops power with the roar of a lion. By means of the energy latent in mercury, the driving whirlwind is set in motion, and the traveller sitting inside the Vimana may travel in the air, to such a distance as to look like a pearl in the sky'.(2).
Note: The references to flying aircraft in Sanskrit literature is found throughout Sanskrit literature. It is described in the Rig Veda, in the Mahabharata, Puranas, shastras as actual machines that were used. In Kautaliyas shastra on statecraft and economics, he mentions the word "air force" and gives policies! The description of aircraft being seen in India is given by Alexandra the great when he attempted to invade India.
In summary: The above are not speculations, but actual real artefacts. They show us very clearly the ancients had knowledge on electricity and built electric batteries, built mechanical computers and built aircraft. This clearly then suggests technological cultures have risen and fallen throughout human history, and we are not the first technological culture on this planet. If it is true human history really goes go back millions of years, it is not a far stretch to imagine civilisations more advanced than our own in our distant past.
I think it is more or less uncontestabe that the current history we are being taught of human origins and origins of civilisation is wrong. On the contraty, there is hard evidence to show that modern human origins go back millions of years and civilisation likewise does too.[/QUOTE]
Yes, those are historically verifiable (and accepted) claims and finds.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48607]As a scientist, we should not be biassed to any theory or concept.We should simply allow the evidence to dictate to us. If we consider the evidence so far presented, one would have to come up with some explanations to explain how and why this is the case.
Why are the Indus cities highly modern and precisely planned, with middle-class like arrangement, houses, streets, lanes, boulevards and why is the lower stratra of the city even more advanced than than the higher strata?
We are talking about up to 10,000 years ago. A similar level of advancement is not found until modern times.
Then consider the evidence presented in the documentary I linked we have found evidence of advanced engineering skill and civilisation going back 17,000 years in South America, where we find many mysterious massive structures like the heads on Easter island. Similarly, we find in Egypt evidence of advanced engineering done to construct the Giza Pyramid. The are unmistkable signs that machines have been used its construction, pointed out by some engineers which have noted how precisely the stones have been cut, how stone blocks weighing up to hundreds of tons which not even modern cranes can lift, were raised several feet(impossible to explain by any primitive methods)
The consider the artefacts we have found of modern human like fossils going back millions of years.
What this all goes to show that the history we are taught of human origins on this planet must be wrong. We cannot simply ignore all this evidence staring us in in the face.
The Mahabharata describes real events which have been corroborated by archeaologists. For example, the Mahabharata describes that the Saraswati river had changed course and started to dry up. Until there recently, this fabled Saraswati river was not found. Then it was accidentally discovered through a space satellite, and indeed it was found that this river dried up completely by 1900BCE(coinciding with the time of the Mahabharata) The Mahabharata also describes the submergence of Dwarika city and indeed archeaologists, headed by a chief Indian archeaologist Rao have now discovered Dwarika exactly where it was was said to be found, submerged under water. It is a massive metropolis now under water. Geologists have been able to calculate exactly when the city when under water and the cause for its flooding. Therefore it is clear the Mahabharata is a real historical event(and indeed it is mentioned to be history in Indian records)
Obviously the archeaological evidence and the current accepted history of the world are completely at odds with one another. Even you accept this because you reject Aryan invasion theory.[/QUOTE]
I know this. I know of the Mahabhrata’s mentioning of Dwaraka (and the subsequent finding of a port city in the precise location where the Mahabharata indicates) and the Veda’s mentioning of the Saraswati River (which was later found my satellite imaging and named the Gaggar-Hakra river).
And I admit, I find the concept of the regression of man from what could have possibly been vastly more advanced states of civilization, intriguing. However, the archeological and scientific evidence is largely not in support of it. Sure, at first glance, those structures you speak of seem amazingly complex for their time. But what most amateurs don’t understand however is the tendency to look at these structures from a Westernized viewpoint. They view all other cultures as inferior and less civilized; hence the surprise most Westerners have at finding something amazingly complex in a country presently known to be poor and “backwards.” Like India. Or Central America and Mexico.
The problem is not so much with the sciences at hand than it is with historical outlook. Western academia cannot admit that there were many Bronze Age cultures far more advanced than the criterion than to which they have set the incumbent age.
However, this does NOT mean that the cultures in question were ridiculously advanced as most of these charlatans claim they were. They have no real knowledge of the sciences at hand and can only generalize and conceptualize. Kind of like Christians who refute the BBT by saying “From nothing came something. Something can’t come from nothing. Therefore, the BBT is false.” In fact, the structures you speak of are difficult to build but were not impossible with the relatively “primitive” methods and the means available to those cultures at the time.
We have several out of place artefacts in history which suggest that human development has not been linear at all. The following are all confirmed artefacts: Planned modern like cities in 3000BCE; the antikeythra mechanism, portable mechnical computer to calculate astronomical movements in Greece before the common era(there is a description of this mehnical computer in King Bhoja’s text on engineering in the chapter on machines(yantras) describing several machines that were known in antiquity. It also describes other machines like elevators, and flying aircraft!) The Baghdad battery and the evidence of electroplating used by the Egyptians.
[/QUOTE]
A lot of what you are talking about was discussed at great lengths in a college course I took in 2003 about world religions. I found it extremely fascinating. The anthropologist in me would love to find out what happened to all of this amazing ancient technology. Any other sources you can find would be extremely appreciated.
SD speaks the truth in this matter. These objects were indeed found and analyzed a while back. The Antikeythra machine caused quite a stir in the Western world.
I wasn’t trying to imply that SD wasn’t telling the truth. I just wanted to see if there was more reading on the subject because I haven’t read anything about it in 8 years.
Ancient Indians were nuking each other!!! :rolleyes:
Oh what a great moral Golden Age we missed! Yeah, lets get back to that!
Where do I sign up?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
[QUOTE=Star Light;48816]I wasn’t trying to imply that SD wasn’t telling the truth. I just wanted to see if there was more reading on the subject because I haven’t read anything about it in 8 years.[/QUOTE]
I never said you were. :D. Me too, the last I have heard of these things was in a history channel documentary (along with outside research).
‘The body must be strong and durable and built of a light wood [Lagha-daru], shaped like a bird in flight with wings outstretched [mahavinhanga]. Within it must be placed the mercury engine, with its heating apparatus made of iron underneath’.
‘In the larger craft [Daru-vimana], because it is built heavier, [alaghu], four strong containers of mercury must be built into the interior. When these are heated by controlled fire from the iron containers, the Vimana possesses thunder power through the mercury. The iron engine must have properly welded joints to be filled with mercury, and when the fire is conducted to the upper parts, it develops power with the roar of a lion. By means of the energy latent in mercury, the driving whirlwind is set in motion, and the traveller sitting inside the Vimana may travel in the air, to such a distance as to look like a pearl in the sky’.(2).
Let’s assume for the sake of argument, that the writer of this document actually witnessed an aircraft in flight. Why did he describe it in such primitive language? If these people were building and flying aircraft, they would have had a language that was comparable to the technology. I think some of the details of construction are inconsistent with advanced capabilities. It says that the craft was built of light wood, but the engine was iron.
