Article: Holy-Spirit-is-not-the-same-as-Shakti-or-Kundalini

[QUOTE=ClydeRight;63011]Downplayed, scorned, and shunned by whom? One of the mystics mentioned in the article, St Theresa of Avila, is a Doctor of the Church. In the 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church, there are only 34 Doctors of the Church, so I think that’s a high honor, not downplayed, shunned or scorned at all. You should read her book ‘The Interior Castle’.

Another mystic mentioned in the article, St Ignatius Loyola, wrote the ‘Spiritual Exercises’ that are the foundation for the spiritual practices of the highly respected Jesuits, a mainstream Catholic religious order. Most ordinary lay people are not aware of this information, but it is well known by the religious. I hope you will further consider this new information.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious?

The Reformation seriously downplayed and shunned mysticism in Christianity. This is true of most, if not all, Protestant sects today. I can’t tell you how many times I hear stories of Christians ratting on Yogis/Yoginis/Hindus simply because they think they are worshiping demons.

Ahh, you speak of the Spanish soldier who initiated the Catholic “Counter-Reformation.” Aren’t these the same Jesuits that shoved their noses into “pagan” lands, from China to Mesoamerica, and engaged in notorious proselytization? Yes they are. I’ve taken extensive college-level history courses you know. And what kind of mysticism is this? Mysticism should open you up to spiritual truths, not make you more dogmatic than ever.

And you know what the Catholic Church said of Yoga in 2003? “[Yoga] can degenerate into a cult of the body” and that equating bodily states with mysticism “could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.”

I agree that mysticism exists in Christianity but only truly in heretical sects like Gnosticism. Mysticism anywhere else in Christianity exists nominally and is hindered by Christian dogma, as shown above.

I agree that mysticism exists in Christianity but only truly in heretical sects like Gnosticism. Mysticism anywhere else in Christianity exists nominally and is hindered by Christian dogma, as shown above

Ok, so you’re back to ignoring the facts. Now like a true idealogue you will accuse me of ignoring the facts, so that you can continue to promote you’re half truths and outright lies. Maybe someone else will benefit from the truth. I’m afraid its wasted on you.

[QUOTE=ClydeRight;63088]Ok, so you’re back to ignoring the facts. Now like a true idealogue you will accuse me of ignoring the facts, so that you can continue to promote you’re half truths and outright lies. Maybe someone else will benefit from the truth. I’m afraid its wasted on you.[/QUOTE]

Are you a Christian? Or were you a Christian?

Either way, I can understand why you are so keen on defending this pathetic faith.

You are the one choosing to ignore the facts. The examples you provided are laughable ones of mysticism in Christianity. I’ve provided proof to show why this is the case. You refuse to listen and see the extent to which supremacist and zealous dogma rules Christians.

I’d hope you will see in time the error of your thinking. Until then, I don’t have time to argue about this save-my-ass religion.

Even if there were mysticists in the abrahamic religions, they were not equal to the rishis of ancient India by any standard. A lot of the mysticists from the abrahamic religions were just as or even more violent than their orthodox counterparts. Let’s stop comparing apples with oranges.

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;63103]Even if there were mysticists in the abrahamic religions, they were not equal to the rishis of ancient India by any standard. A lot of the mysticists from the abrahamic religions were just as or even more violent than their orthodox counterparts. Let’s stop comparing apples with oranges.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

It is known that after getting some psychic powers or “siddis”, there is tendency to succumb to the force of “maya”. Even then, let us respect all those who have tread on this path. Let not excessive pride for anything come in our own way of progress.

regards, anand

It has become taboo to point this out, but the contemplative traditions in the east were far more developed than in the west.

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;63173]It has become taboo to point this out, but the contemplative traditions in the east were far more developed than in the west.[/QUOTE]

Yes. OK. But [B]even[/B] then. It would be for individual good that will lead to universal good. (maybe I am being stupid).

regards, anand

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63172]Dear Friend:

It is known that after getting some psychic powers or “siddis”, there is tendency to succumb to the force of “maya”. Even then, let us respect all those who have tread on this path. Let not excessive pride for anything come in our own way of progress.

regards, anand[/QUOTE]

This is pointless slave morality rambling.

I know you mean well Anand, but the fact remains that Christians are oppressing our people; tolerating this oppression only serves to perpetuate this evil.

We should not have excessive pride but neither should we tolerate those who are intolerant of us. Letting people walk over us is just as wrong as what Christians are doing.

It is an established fact that Christians have a weak, pathetic, and primitive religion and we should expose its flaws. Refer to the two points above.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63175]This is pointless slave morality rambling.[/QUOTE]

Hey Fraulein, did I just find a video of you here?

Nice moves, girl.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63175]This is pointless slave morality rambling.

I know you mean well Anand, but the fact remains that Christians are oppressing our people; tolerating this oppression only serves to perpetuate this evil.

We should not have excessive pride but neither should we tolerate those who are intolerant of us. Letting people walk over us is just as wrong as what Christians are doing.

It is an established fact that Christians have a weak, pathetic, and primitive religion and we should expose its flaws. Refer to the two points above.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

My words may sound as “pointless morality rambling”. However the point I’m trying to make is that excessive pride may lead to arrest of one’s spiritual progress, which is what one had set out for, in the first place.

I heard H.H. Shankaracharya of Kanchi Peetham some months back. It was a multi-faith platform. He said, in day to day affairs of the world, humans must come together in a spirit of co-operation, while at home, they may practice their own faiths.

Yes, you’re right; no one is to be allowed to steamroll others’ faith. But why engage in “exposing flaws” in other faiths? For all you know, you might have belonged to another religious faith in some previous birth? Imagine, the same soul is talking different now!!

Take it lightly.

By the way, any feedback on Kundalini vis-a-vis Holy Spirit, the thread here? In fact, I myself thought they were synonymous, hence the post.

regards, anand

Thank you for your thoughtful post Anand. One thing I learned in my childhood as a Christian is not to judge a person based on the sins of his father. For that reason, I accept anyone on their own merit.

As for kudalini and the holy spirit, although some similarity between them, their origin and purpose are very different. It does not mean they cannot live in the same house.

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63181]Dear Friend:

My words may sound as “pointless morality rambling”. However the point I’m trying to make is that excessive pride may lead to arrest of one’s spiritual progress, which is what one had set out for, in the first place.

I heard H.H. Shankaracharya of Kanchi Peetham some months back. It was a multi-faith platform. He said, in day to day affairs of the world, humans must come together in a spirit of co-operation, while at home, they may practice their own faiths.

Yes, you’re right; no one is to be allowed to steamroll others’ faith. [B]But why engage in “exposing flaws” in other faiths?[/B] For all you know, you might have belonged to another religious faith in some previous birth? Imagine, the same soul is talking different now!!

Take it lightly.

By the way, any feedback on Kundalini vis-a-vis Holy Spirit, the thread here? In fact, I myself thought they were synonymous, hence the post.

regards, anand[/QUOTE]

Because the followers of these desert religions are ruling the world and subjugating our culture and religion. Because these religions are the cause of much of the world’s suffering.

These religions are primitive, dogmatic, and reinforce philistinism. They destroy your humanity and enslave you to the words on a $2 fairy tale book. They place ethnocentric and religious supremacist idealism above human life, which is why Christians were the most destructive and violent people in human history, with Muslims a close 2nd.

Take it kindly? [B]Take it kindly?[/B]

Anand, when you see the eyes of a little Hindu boys or girls filled with tears at unkind remarks made by Christians about their “demonic” gods and goddesses, when you see their eyes clouded with racial and religious inferiority, when you see the condition of the vast amounts of poor in India, looking for hope but getting this pile of Jewish excrement stuffed down their throats with the ubiquitous food, education, and home strings attached, when you see them being turned into intolerant and hateful anti-Indian/Hindu bigots, when you see these same poor people get into high political positions through subterfuge only to help their Christian brethren undermine the Hindu faith through the appropriation of temple funds and lands, and the establishment of churches and missionary centers adjacent to these temples, when you see these grown up boys and girls deriding their own culture as illogical, primitive, and nothing more than [I][B]paganism[/B][/I], then you can tell me that this isn’t a big deal.

And Christians are not the only culprits here. Its also the “wise” and “spiritual” Yoga practitioners themselves!

[B][U]Whiteshit Penguin’s Comments[/U][/B]

Face the facts: without western civilization and Christianity, India and the vast cultures if the world would still be wrangling on or near the stone age; living, fighting and dying under primitive tribalism.

This is a good start Surya. I’ll contact A R Rahman so he can compose an upbeat score. You and Friedrich practice your dance routines (who’s the stright guy?). Leave everything to me and I’ll have you guys prancing down the red carpet come Oscar season.

May have to change the old testament theme thing a bit. Violence is good, but can you find some sexy bits? Just try to resist casting any girls under 16. I’ve read about old Hindu men’s preference for marrying the young ones. Won’t go over well out here. Round up some lower caste filthy untouchable bastards to haul the equipment around on the cheap, and we’re set.

Are child brides still condemned by Hindu law to be outcasts because they are widows? That’s not very yogic.

Here’s the synopsis:
The Hero: Surya Deva, he’s a rich boy, a spoiled brat. His mother has died and his mean father has remarried a Chritian woman. Surya often sees his mother in his dreams where she begs him to find a nice girl and settle down. When we first meet our hero he’s surrounded by scantily clad girls prancing around him in their vast garden, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky. They sing:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Āpa kē li’ē hamārā pyāra pīlē bukhāra kī taraha jalatā hai.
(Our love for you
Burns like yellow fever!)

Our hero has charms to distract the girls while dancing - singing of his dream girl.
She comes to me
Like biscuit from the cupboard
So dry at first
But dunked in milk
So white to see

The Heroine: Fraulein Freidrich (funny name for a hindu girl, but we can make it work). She is the epitome of today’s generation. Fraulein Freidrich is poor outcast from a small village, but her jewelry is designed by Tanishq. Our heroine is having a bath in the local canal when our hero sees her. Their eyes meet, heartbeats stop, music happens, everyone around them begins the choreographed dancing rountine, the camera pans a wide panoramic shot of the scene, and love is in the air!

Fraulein Freidrich sings the main theme tune:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
My love for you
Lifts me up like a lever!

The Villain: (TBA) Surya’s father and his Christian wife, always spying on them from behind the doors or the trees. They sing as well:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
If you marry her
We will carve you with a cleaver!

Meanwhile, one lonely night our hero is alone, looking out into the Ganges, when his ghostly mother appears to him:
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Fraulein Freidrich is too brown
Why don’t you leave her?

SD:
Mām̐, maiṁ apanā dūdha liyā hai,
lēkina ēka chōṭī sī mēka’apa
Fraulein Freidrich pārita kara sakatē haiṁ wih.
(Mother, I’ve had your milk, but wih a little makeup Fraulein Freidrich can pass.)

This goes on for a couple of hours, then our villains kidnap Fraulein Freidrich and take her to a palace that has a pool filled with pink acid. Much singing and dancing there. But, our hero’s best friend urges Surya Deva to rescue the Fraulein.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
If you let this happen
You will surely bereave her!

So, off they prance - the scantliy clad girls in tow - to rescue the Fraulein Freidrich from the clutches of the evil father and Christian stepmother. When the arrive, a great fight ensues with a cast of thousands. Carefully choreographed, the villains and heroes battle for another hour or so. Finally, Surya Deva rescues his Fraulein Freidrich, but as they sing to each other, they realize they cannot remain on Earth together, so they decide to jump into the pool of pink acid. As they sink, to their knees, then their waist, then their shoulders, the camera zooms into a close up and our lovers kiss passionately. The fighting stops and sun is blacked out by a swarm of parrots, their droppings falling on the villains.

But wait! It’s not over! Our lovers emerge in heaven, hand in hand (the scantily clad girls are there to meet them) and they are shown to a table full of great food by our hero’s mother. At the table are many guests, including Siva, Jesus, Allah, and the prophet MHd (have to careful there. Don’t want to make the same mistake as the Danes). Everyone is happy to see them, and the final song echoes with Rahman’s signature beat, while white and lilac petals fall from the sky.
Surya
Surya
Surya Deva
Now you have the chance
To show her your pecker!

(note: the preceding is a parody. Any resemblance to any person or culture, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Your humble narrator’s personal views are not in any way reflected here)

"Total and utter dribble. India was very proficient at abusing her citizens long before Hannibal came traipsing over the horizon. In fact, I would venture to bet that India taught the West all they know about citizen abuse (and I know you know what I’m talking about).

[B][U]The “wise” Samkhya philosopher, Asura, and his quotes[/U][/B]

Well, I never thought much about Hindus at all, but if I were to base my opinion on the two of you, I’d have to say that Hindus are arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists

And quit twisting my words, you punk. I didn’t say that Indians only own the Dunkin Donuts and 7 11’s, I said they own ALL of them.

Oh yeah, I watched Ice Road Truckers when they went to India. Man, you guys can’t drive. And you need to do something about those roads.

Nice try Thomas, but we know what happens when pearls are cast before the swine. What did you expect from people who drink their own piss?

Why don’t you go cut your tongue and use it to clean out your nose?

When your done with that, why don’t get a straw and use it to suck out your own semen? Filthy barbarians.

But of course, these comments by those who rule the world are to be ignored, accepted even! Anand, although I admire you as a person, I have to say that this slavish Gandhian kind of morality is exactly what got millions upon millions of our kind killed off for the past 1000 years and is exactly what causes evils in our present day society to perpetuate. Its time to rise up and take action, unless you wish to be a part of the problem. [B]Silence only helps the oppressor. [/B]

OK I have reread your reposts of my posts and still don’t get it. They are quite brilliant and to the point. Thanks again for reiterating. Please continue to do so until your fingers are worn to stubs.

"And you know what the Catholic Church said of Yoga in 2003? “[Yoga] can degenerate into a cult of the body”

Yoga has indeed degenerated into a cult of the body in the US. A cult of the body and $$$.

He was right about that.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63201]Because the followers of these desert religions are ruling the world and subjugating our culture and religion. Because these religions are the cause of much of the world’s suffering.

These religions are primitive, dogmatic, and reinforce philistinism. They destroy your humanity and enslave you to the words on a $2 fairy tale book. They place ethnocentric and religious supremacist idealism above human life, which is why Christians were the most destructive and violent people in human history, with Muslims a close 2nd.

Take it kindly? [B]Take it kindly?[/B]

Anand, when you see the eyes of a little Hindu boys or girls filled with tears at unkind remarks made by Christians about their “demonic” gods and goddesses, when you see their eyes clouded with racial and religious inferiority, when you see the condition of the vast amounts of poor in India, looking for hope but getting this pile of Jewish excrement stuffed down their throats with the ubiquitous food, education, and home strings attached, when you see them being turned into intolerant and hateful anti-Indian/Hindu bigots, when you see these same poor people get into high political positions through subterfuge only to help their Christian brethren undermine the Hindu faith through the appropriation of temple funds and lands, and the establishment of churches and missionary centers adjacent to these temples, when you see these grown up boys and girls deriding their own culture as illogical, primitive, and nothing more than [I][B]paganism[/B][/I], then you can tell me that this isn’t a big deal.

And Christians are not the only culprits here. Its also the “wise” and “spiritual” Yoga practitioners themselves!

[B][U]Whiteshit Penguin’s Comments[/U][/B]

[B][U]The “wise” Samkhya philosopher, Asura, and his quotes[/U][/B]

But of course, these comments by those who rule the world are to be ignored, accepted even! Anand, although I admire you as a person, I have to say that this slavish Gandhian kind of morality is exactly what got millions upon millions of our kind killed off for the past 1000 years and is exactly what causes evils in our present day society to perpetuate. Its time to rise up and take action, unless you wish to be a part of the problem. [B]Silence only helps the oppressor. [/B][/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

As much as you admire me as a person, I too respect your indignation at all the excesses that have taken place between peoples of the world.

As a religion, Hinduism provides for provision, sustenance, defense, as well as the harmonious progress of the individual as well as the entire society, by incorporating at individual level, several “personality types”. Harmonious progress includes material and spiritual. In fact, one’s spiritual progress is beautifully incorporated in the [B]dutiful actions[/B] of the individual.

Moreover, the oneness that is common to all humans (in fact to all creation) is the basis of Hinduism and the science of Yoga, if practised by people around the world, will bring this experience of oneness to diverse cultures.

I agree yoga, rather than a divine science, is presented in twisted forms in many quarters. This certainly needs serious attention.

regards, anand

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63227]Dear Friend:

As much as you admire me as a person, I too respect your indignation at all the excesses that have taken place between peoples of the world.

As a religion, Hinduism provides for provision, sustenance, defense, as well as the harmonious progress of the individual as well as the entire society, by incorporating at individual level, several “personality types”. Harmonious progress includes material and spiritual. In fact, one’s spiritual progress is beautifully incorporated in the [B]dutiful actions[/B] of the individual.

Moreover, the oneness that is common to all humans (in fact to all creation) is the basis of Hinduism and the science of Yoga, if practised by people around the world, will bring this experience of oneness to diverse cultures.

I agree yoga, rather than a divine science, is presented in twisted forms in many quarters. This certainly needs serious attention.

regards, anand[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Which is why as Hindus, we should endeavor to give a good representation of our religion and protect it from such excesses that are currently taking place in India and around the world.

P.S: Forgive me for asking, but I think it was you who said you went to IIT. Is this true? If so, that’s amazing! How was it like?

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63229]Exactly.

Which is why as Hindus, we should endeavor to give a good representation of our religion and protect it from such excesses that are currently taking place in India and around the world.

P.S: Forgive me for asking, but I think it was you who said you went to IIT. Is this true? If so, that’s amazing! How was it like?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Most of the persuasion to enter into another religion is based on economic factors and a promise of egalitarianism.

The various Shankaracharyas have a duty to preserve true Dharma. I am sure they are doing this by all possible means. You too can lend a helping hand if you wish.

Yes, I did go to IIT. That was quite some time back. I still am a professional engineer. Pray, why do you find it amazing?

regards, anand

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63248]Dear Friend:

Most of the persuasion to enter into another religion is based on economic factors and a promise of egalitarianism.

The various Shankaracharyas have a duty to preserve true Dharma. I am sure they are doing this by all possible means. You too can lend a helping hand if you wish.

Yes, I did go to IIT. That was quite some time back. I still am a professional engineer. Pray, why do you find it amazing?

regards, anand[/QUOTE]

Wait wait wait, I think I had the wrong IIT in mind (as in the Indian Institute of Technology). I just realized that there’s the Illinois/Indiana Institute of Tech. Lol sorry for the confusion.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63251]Wait wait wait, I think I had the wrong IIT in mind (as in the Indian Institute of Technology). I just realized that there’s the Illinois/Indiana Institute of Tech. Lol sorry for the confusion.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

It [B]is[/B] as in The Indian Institute Of Technology. That’s where I went. For a degree in Engineering. And they even gave it to me.

regards, anand

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;63256]Dear Friend:

It [B]is[/B] as in [B]The Indian Institute Of Technology[/B]. That’s where I went. For a degree in Engineering. And they even gave it to me.

regards, anand[/QUOTE]

WOW!

How [B]isn’t[/B] that amazing? You went to one of the most prestigious Science/Tech universities in the world! The MIT of India!

I prostrate myself before your lotus feet! Teach me everything I need to know about Engineering!!