Ashtanga Yoga question

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello all, I have a question regarding Ashtanga Yoga, which I hope experienced practitioners/teachers could help me with.

I have practiced yoga for 12 years, for about 3 years of that I was incorporating Ashtanga Yoga into my practice.
Whilst in India, I studied Ashtanga for a summer and moved away from it for 2 reasons. Firstly, it wasn’t helping to heal old injuries in my ankle and lower back. Secondly, the massive amount of ego I saw in other students and teachers.

I asked a teacher about the amount of ego I was seeing, and he explained to me that Ashtanga wasn’t really a spiritual discipline as such, more of a physical exercise. I initially started yoga to heal myself from injuries in martial arts, and ‘psychological injuries’ sustained in life. So it seemed Ashtanga wasn’t for me.

Recently I saw an explanation of Ashtanga Yoga given by David Swenson. Within 2 minutes, he gave an insight into yoga as a spiritual discipline, something I have come across in ‘Hatha’ and Iyengar Yoga classes, but never in an Ashtanga class. It got my interest. I’m considering trying it again.

So, I’d be interested in hearing what experienced Ashtanga practitioners have to say about their practice and my comments… :wink:

#2

[QUOTE=Terence;50433]Hello all, I have a question regarding Ashtanga Yoga, which I hope experienced practitioners/teachers could help me with.

I have practiced yoga for 12 years, for about 3 years of that I was incorporating Ashtanga Yoga into my practice.
Whilst in India, I studied Ashtanga for a summer and moved away from it for 2 reasons. Firstly, it wasn’t helping to heal old injuries in my ankle and lower back. Secondly, the massive amount of ego I saw in other students and teachers.

I asked a teacher about the amount of ego I was seeing, and he explained to me that Ashtanga wasn’t really a spiritual discipline as such, more of a physical exercise. I initially started yoga to heal myself from injuries in martial arts, and ‘psychological injuries’ sustained in life. So it seemed Ashtanga wasn’t for me.

Recently I saw an explanation of Ashtanga Yoga given by David Swenson. Within 2 minutes, he gave an insight into yoga as a spiritual discipline, something I have come across in ‘Hatha’ and Iyengar Yoga classes, but never in an Ashtanga class. It got my interest. I’m considering trying it again.

So, I’d be interested in hearing what experienced Ashtanga practitioners have to say about their practice and my comments… ;)[/QUOTE]

Iyengar, Hatha , Ashtanga - these are all terms coined by shall I say “stylised teachers” more as an USP than anything else. Classical Yoga has been deliberated at length by Patanjali in Yoga Sutras and this is generally considered the bible of yoga. He defines yoga as having eight limbs (Ashta anga) and these are Yam, Niyam, Asan, Pranayam, Pratyhar, dharan, dhyan & Samadhi.

You will appreciate that most of what passes for yoga nowadays consists of Asan which is largely physical. The rest of the seven limbs are tilted towards spirituality and the whole system of yoga evolved to enable man to acheive his spiritual potential.

Those who practice it purely as a physical exercise, would derive not much spiritual benefits out of the practice.

#3

I can recommend two books to you. The first is Guruji, a potrait of Sri K. Pattabhi Jois, throught the eyes of his students by Guy Donahaye and Eddie Stern (Isbn - 978-0-86547-749-0)
The second book is by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois himself and is called Yoga Mala (ISBN - 978-0-86547-751-3).
These books have helped me a whole lot with my understanding of Ashtanga yoga and its origins and the way it should be practiced.

#4

Ego of the advanced yoga practitioners has also caused many of them to feel “having arrived” and then launch their versions as different brands of yoga. But this freedom of enterprize has created confusion and the Yoga marketplace is crowded with false competition.

What Ravi says is right. Ashtanga only means “ashta” =eight; “anga”= limbs. This is authentically coded in Yoga Sutras. Any other interpretation comes bundled with someone’s personal agenda. True Ashtanga is for life (if not lives) and any style or ‘personalized’ version is usually specious.

Ashtanga is a spiritual path. Asana (=body postures) and Pranayama (=breathing exercises for prana control) are primarily physical level preparation and yama (=abstentions) and niyama (=observances) are primarily subtle level preparations manifesting in behavioral change. However, all these are only preparations leading to a break-through point of pratyahara (=abstraction) which enables a conscious disconnect between perception and mind-driven thinking. This also allows a seeker to dwell in the inner domain. How long one would remain in this state uninterrupted and further deepen the perception, determines a progress into dharana (=concentration), then dhyana (=meditation) and finally samadhi (=total absorption). As one advances in these spiritual states the need for the preparatory practices diminishes.

Ashtanga yoga is thus transformational. The ‘enlightenment’ does not arrive from anywhere; it is always there in you waiting for a realization that it is so. Unfortunately, more you remain in the inner domain, need for external guru also diminishes and that may be one of the reasons why the Yoga studios don’t like it. In Ashtanga yoga, one is largely a lone traveler.

One book I will recommend as a starter is “The Yoga-Sutra of Patanjali” by Chip Hartranft, Shambhala publication.

#5

Thank you for the info. I have started practicing the primary series again, and will look at the books recommended.
Clearly, there is more to the Ashtanga practice than what I have experienced in classes so far.

#6

[QUOTE=Terence;50433] I asked a teacher about the amount of ego I was seeing, and he explained to me that Ashtanga wasn’t really a spiritual discipline as such, more of a physical exercise. [/QUOTE]

If you’re only doing physical exercise, then you’re not practicing true Ashtanga. For Pattabhi Jois, Ashtanga yoga was the same as Patanjali yoga, and the asanas were just one of the eight steps in the path to samadhi. So of course it’s a spiritual discipline.

‘Ashtanga’ style asana classes are often geared toward students who just want exercise. They continue to use the term ‘Ashtanga’ though, which confuses people like me who wonder where the other 7 anga went. It’s important to clearly distinguish the difference between the ‘Ashtanga’ style of asana class that you’re taking and the eightfold spiritual path (Ashtanga) that is laid out in the Yoga Sutras, as Suhas Tambe explained.

If your teacher believes that Ashtanga is not a spiritual discipline, it only indicates that it’s not a spiritual discipline for him. If you’re happy with just exercise, you could stick with teachers like that. But what I think you’re noticing is the ego that develops when people pursue just one limb of an eightfold path – the limb, of course, that results in a beautiful body and the self-satisfaction of being really hardcore. That observation would lead me to find some people who still see Ashtanga as an eightfold path.

#7

I saw this quote:
[I]“Whether you practice the dynamic series of Pattabhi Jois, the refined alignments of B.K.S. Iyengar, the classical postures of Indra Devi, or the customized vinyasa of Viniyoga, your practice stems from one source: a five-foot, two-inch Brahmin born more than one hundred years ago in a small South Indian village”[/I] Referring to Sri Tirumalai Krishnamacharya.

The asana is only one of many yogic paths. I don’t think it matters much, other than individual and personal preference, which style you practice. As a part of spiritual practice, Ashtanga is as good as any other style.

#8

I think just following asana can be dangerous.

Now how’s that for controversial a statement?

Every llimb supports another and ignoring one can be detrimental to another and it’s effects.

Some have called the ashtanga vinyasa of PKJ as a bastardisation or perversion of the true meaning of the term “ashtanga”…a misleading misnomer. I don’t actually believe this though myself as usually it is how the methods are applied ,rather than the methods per se in and of themselves, that may be weak or incorrect… Not doing asana with proper & healthy regard to good alignment or doing asana with divided awareness are examples of poor application ,say.

I think ashtanga vinyasa is a great system though it is’nt going to work for everyone… though there there should be a yoga system or method out there that will work for everyone. This is where tailoring by someone steeped in the full breadth of the yogic sciences would be more than invaulable.Such a person is better able to identify weak spots or areas and tailor yogas for that particular individual if that individual is willing and interested.It’s not always enough for some to practice pethpds by rote or mechanically but to understand somethiing of the essence and how that can manifest in living.The other limbs besudes asana are serious areas of yoga practice that can be exploited and you may be surprised at the gains made in other supporting limbs. Diet is a an example of a serious yoga practice… perhaps though because it is one that is observed continuously.Diet requires effort,application…

Ashtanga vinyasa is spiritual. I think the danger is it can aggrandize or inflate the ego though.What i heard is in the yoga shalas of mysore they had started introducing meditation and thinking of moving away from this heavier emphasis on “conscious asana”… just a term i heard to favourably describe asana oriented hatha yoga by one exponent (Amirt Deai actually …founder of Kripalu Yoga?)

Is it spiritual? Yes it is but as i say ignoring limbs other than asana that don’t support asana , bhanda,kriyas can , i think be spiritually detrimental, i.e liable to inflate ego, or worse-r still, dangerous.

#9

Is it spiritual? Yes it is but as i say ignoring limbs other than asana that don’t support asana , bhanda,kriyas can , i think be spiritually detrimental, i.e liable to inflate ego, or worse-r still, dangerous.Alot of people may injure themselves doing this type of yoga; of course that is’nt spiritual.That may just be because of how it is applied or the fact it may not always be appropriate for everyone.

#10

Thank you all for the excellent replies.
I’m very interested to know that the Ashtanga practice has the same lineage as Iyengar, this is a lineage that I respect greatly.

Ashtanga vinyasa has been very popular in the last 15 years or so. Perhaps the drawback to this is that some sincerity has been lost. Maybe now, those that started the practice 10+ years ago are starting to look deeper into the holistic aspect of yoga, beyond the physical.

#11

[QUOTE=Terence;50988]Thank you all for the excellent replies.
I’m very interested to know that the Ashtanga practice has the same lineage as Iyengar, this is a lineage that I respect greatly.

Ashtanga vinyasa has been very popular in the last 15 years or so. Perhaps the drawback to this is that some sincerity has been lost. Maybe now, those that started the practice 10+ years ago are starting to look deeper into the holistic aspect of yoga, beyond the physical.[/QUOTE]

Vinayasa is a stylisation adopted by certain teachers- Krishnamacharya and his students BKS , Pattabhi Jose etc. I dont think it classifies as being called a separate yogic school. It has its origins in Ashtaanga Yoga coming from Patanjali but focuses strongly on asan which is categorised under Hatha Yoga. Patanjali is focussed more on Raja yoga.

That is the basic difference.

#12

[QUOTE=core789;50612]Alot of people may injure themselves doing this type of yoga; of course that is’nt spiritual.[/QUOTE]

I actually have injured myself in the past doing Ashtanga yoga. At the moment, I am applying what I have learned form the study of the Iyengar method to perform the asana safely. Thus far, I am getting more out of the primary series than ever before…

#13

How would you regard Ashtanga as it is generally taught in the west today?

#14

[QUOTE=Terence;51010]How would you regard Ashtanga as it is generally taught in the west today?[/QUOTE]

I think it is more of “ek” anga yoga. The focus is on the physique.

#15

[QUOTE=Terence;51010]How would you regard Ashtanga as it is generally taught in the west today?[/QUOTE]

From my experience, pretty good.

#16

[QUOTE=Terence;51010]How would you regard Ashtanga as it is generally taught in the west today?[/QUOTE]

If your goals are more material and less spiritual it will do you good.

In any case, it won’t harm you to keep questioning, reading and thinking about what it is, what it is not and what it could be.

#17

[QUOTE=Terence;50433]Hello all, I have a question regarding Ashtanga Yoga, which I hope experienced practitioners/teachers could help me with.

I have practiced yoga for 12 years, for about 3 years of that I was incorporating Ashtanga Yoga into my practice.
Whilst in India, I studied Ashtanga for a summer and moved away from it for 2 reasons. Firstly, it wasn’t helping to heal old injuries in my ankle and lower back. Secondly, the massive amount of ego I saw in other students and teachers.

I asked a teacher about the amount of ego I was seeing, and he explained to me that Ashtanga wasn’t really a spiritual discipline as such, more of a physical exercise. I initially started yoga to heal myself from injuries in martial arts, and ‘psychological injuries’ sustained in life. So it seemed Ashtanga wasn’t for me.

Recently I saw an explanation of Ashtanga Yoga given by David Swenson. Within 2 minutes, he gave an insight into yoga as a spiritual discipline, something I have come across in ‘Hatha’ and Iyengar Yoga classes, but never in an Ashtanga class. It got my interest. I’m considering trying it again.

So, I’d be interested in hearing what experienced Ashtanga practitioners have to say about their practice and my comments… ;)[/QUOTE]

Surely Ashtanga yoga is a way of life style , it is a hindu philosophy , it shows us the way how to practice devotional life. In that ashtanga yoga practicing asanas is one part, yama, niyama , pranayama , pratyahara, dharana,dhyana,samadhi are other limbs of yoga . According to hindu philosophy this all eight limbs of practice leads us to MOKSHAM. Now a days most of the people are practicing yoga asanas , pranayama, meditation. These are very helpful in our daily life. Remaining are good for devotional life.

#18

[QUOTE=hanuma;51217] Now a days most of the people are practicing yoga asanas , pranayama, meditation. These are very helpful in our daily life. Remaining are good for devotional life.[/QUOTE]

Nobody can “practice” meditation. you can practice dharan “concentration” -dharan. When dharan deepens and stays steady on one subject it is called dhyan -meditation. Dhyan is a byproduct.

#19

Dhyan a by product?:slight_smile:
Dharana is the practice step towards the state of dhyan.
Dharana can be a guided practice. Dhyan is a state of being.

#20

[QUOTE=Prascina;51346]Dhyan a by product?:slight_smile:
Dharana is the practice step towards the state of dhyan.
Dharana can be a guided practice. Dhyan is a state of being.[/QUOTE]

Well …more or less…what i meant by “by product” is that you cant “do it”. It “happens” when you practice Dharan and deepen it. A result of the action of Dharan , if you will.