Calm rational discussion regarding Hinduism and Abrahamic religions

[Pawel]

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;35876]Relief Aid Money to Haiti

Where are the western countries on this list, where are the eastern countries, where is India?

Others 639,381,379
Private 593,639,219
United States 466,879,506
Canada 130,733,775
World Bank 82,107,356
Japan 70,744,798
Saudi Arabia 50,000,000
Spain 47,664,745
European Commission 43,290,043
France 33,844,153
United Kingdom 33,070,138
(CERF) 27,976,462
Norway 25,298,044
Sweden 25,039,684
Germany 21,645,022
Brazil 16,884,782
Denmark 16,288,032
Australia 13,489,209
China 10,813,535
UN & agencies 10,000,000
Italy 9,302,037
Switzerland 8,932,039
Finland 8,005,607
Russian Federation 5,700,000
Netherlands 5,050,504
India 5,000,000
United Arab Emirates 3,209,113
Ghana 3,000,000
Ireland 2,886,002[/QUOTE]

Nice post Flex. In the storm of the critique of western civilization its good to see some positive aspects from time to time. I knew Canada is a compassionate nation but its even better seeing how it looks in comparison with such giants like Japan, China and India. You should be proud!

Ps. Where do I get such t-shirt???

[David]

I’ve gone ahead and edited the thread title in an effort to bring a little satya to this thread.

edit 8/25/2010 AND changed it back. I HAD changed it to, “My religion can beat up your religion” for a short time as a joke.

[Surya_Deva]

[QUOTE=David;35915]I’ve gone ahead and edited the thread title in an effort to bring a little satya to this thread.[/QUOTE]

This is a much more fitting title!

This discussion was hardly calm and rational. However, I think we have come to a conclusion in this thread now.

I wanted to conclusively demonstrate my points, which I have now:

1. Not all religions are equal
2. The Abrahamic religions are primitive, barbaric and stupid
3. Hinduism is a superior religion and the worlds only true religion

I can now rest in peace lol

[David]

This is a much more fitting title!

Yes, which goes to show that the conversation I had in preschool with another boy about how my dad could beat up his dad lives on in “adults”.

The following is a conversation I had with my guru a couple years ago regarding emotional maturity:

David,

My dear friend, how are you? Is China treating you well?

Life has been interesting lately. I’ve been highly reactive and impatient and projecting a lot on others. I’ve been observing myself and others and recently connected to the following:

I am an emotional retard. Most people are emotionally retarded. I don’t say this with derision but as an observation and with compassion. In other words, I am physically 31 years old and might have the mental capacity of a 31 year old, but emotionally, I am around 5-8 years old. I react to the world as it reacts to me as if I was 5-8 years old. My guess is that childhood traumas coupled with everyone around us being emotionally retarded hinders our emotional growth. I’m guessing you don’t react because you observe and you have grown up emotionally. Am I on track here?

I asked myself tonight, “HOW do I grow up emotionally?” The answer is that you have to be the seer. The observer. We have to be so observant of ourselves that we see when we are being or about to be emotionally reactive and, with compassion, as if we are dealing with a 5-8 year old (because we are), cultivate emotional growth. I’m guessing significant work can also be done in stillness and meditation.

Am I on the right track? If so, any tips or advice?

Much love to you,
David

Hello David,

I just laughed and laughed at your e-mail. What a delight to receive it
now when I am sick with food poisoning. The dumplings I ate looked so
delicious - who would have thought they could be so deadly!!! I
haven’t let it slow me down too much though. I am trying all kinds of
herbal Chinese remedies and they are helping me to slowly regain my
health.

I leave tomorrow for Phoenix. I rest for a few days and then on to
Toronto. If you are interested you can look at some cool pictures of my
trip here on my facebook site.

Well, I am sorry to tell you that you are correct. Your wording and
insight although somewhat crass is very accurate. Humans are primarily
emotionally retarded. We spend approximately the first 6 years of our
lives being trained to be emotionally retarded and spend the rest of our
lives trying to undo what society, family, culture, religion, etc., has
done to us. This is why going back through childhood experiences is so
essential in the psychotherapeutic process. Almost all of our reactions in
adulthood come from unresolved childhood experiences. If they were
resolved we would no longer “react” in adulthood. These are also lodged
somewhere in your muscle tissue which is what I believe the tremors in TRE
searching for.

Your solution however is right on target. Simply observe! Psychology calls
this the “object self”. The person that stands behind you and just looks
at situations and your reactions to them. It does not get involved. It is
what I spent most of my life attempting to master(AND STILL HAVE A LONG
WAY TO GO). Just observe my feelings, sensations, thoughts and behaviors.

One way to think of it is as though everything outside of you is simply on
a movie screen. When you see a movie that disturbs you, you don’t get out
of your seat and try to change the characters on the screen because you
know that they are simply being projected by the projector in the back of
the room. You get up and go to the projector. Well, the good news my dear
friend is that you are the projector. You can change the projections you
are seeing any time you want. By simply observing the screen play in front
of you instead of expecting it to change, you can just change your
projection and the image has to change because you are no longer
projecting it. So, you projected all these emotional retards so that you
could finally see that within yourself. Now that you have seen it, you can
change this proectection and begin to project people who are masters at
"observing" themselves and not “reacting” …although I am not sure you
will find them in Austin, Tx. (A prejudice & stereotype of mine).

This is simply a matter of practice like all the other techniques in a
spiritual journey of awakening. Just observe! Watch yourself as you react
and do react to your reaction. Just observe your reaction and your
reaction to your reaction. Don’t get mad at yourself, don’t become
impatient, don’t do any of that…just observe. It may sound boring and
unengaged but in all honesty it is the most intereting experience you can
have on the planet. Go around observing others and yourself interacting
with others. I have finally managed to laugh at myself a lot and enjoy the
silliness of it all.

Yes, you can use stillness and meditation intermittently to help you
through this process. However, I have met many people who have developed
stillness in solitude but when they left the place of solitude they could
not sustain their objectivity. They would become “undone” and have to
return to their “hiding place” of solitude. Until you can achieve
stillness and objectivity in the midst of the crowded marketplace (Budda
said), then you haven’t become the master of youself.

I have found that initially, a place of silence and stillness helped me
get on the bandwagon (so to speak), but after that initial push in the
right direction, it was right back into the midst of chaos that really
helped me learn to observe. There is nothing like a bunch of emotional
retards to help give us the kick in the pants that we all need to finally
SEE ourselves. Sooooooo, I have to say that your trip has been very
successful. What you were looking for all along was a place to call home
and now that you haven’t found it in the northwest, Oregon, Colorado and
Texas(?), maybe the universe was trying to tell you that home is really in
your “object self” and if you can go there, you will find peace,
centeredness and beauty anyplace you go after that. AIN’T THE UNIVERSE
GREAT?

Luv ya
Dave

[Surya_Deva]

Yes, which goes to show that the conversation I had in preschool with another boy about how my dad could beat up his dad lives on in “adults”.

There is a truth in this of course. If one person dad is a weaking and the other persons dad is a strong person, then of course the person with the strong person’s dad is going to beat the the person with the weak dad.

Everything in the universe has a scale going from inferior grade to superior grade. Some people are weak, and some people are strong. Some people are ugly, and some people are beautuful. Some people are dumb, and some people are intelligent. Some people have dull concentration and some people have razor sharp concentration. Some people are immoral and some people are moral.

We do the same thing with fashion, jewelry and food. Some people wear cheap clothes from the flea market, and some people wear designer clothes. Some people wear fake 2kt gold and and some people wear 24kt pure gold. Some people eat junk food and some people eat the finest gourmet food.

It is the same with everything else. Some religions are inferior and some religions are superior.

I see no reason to be politically correct about these things. Heirarchy is very much a natural law of the world.

Regarding observation I absolutely agree. I find in regular life when I let go of everything and simply observe it puts me in touch with a higher aspect of myself. I simply accept what is around me and allow it to be. Including the unpleasentness around me. However, it does not make me passive, but rather it makes me more dynamic. I not only observe but respond more appropriately.

We have a choice we can either observe this world as it is and just leave it at that or act to change it into something more pleasent. According to me as long as 2 billion people practice primitive, barbaric and stupid Abrahamic religions, this world is not going to change for the better. When 2 billion people practice a noble and enlightened religion like Hinduism and the world is modelled on those principles, will there be peace and prosperity in this world.

I have many spiritual friends who are non-Hindu who agree that the Abrahamic religions have to go. They have no place in a modern, scientific and civilised world.

[Pawel]

[QUOTE=David;35915]I’ve gone ahead and edited the thread title in an effort to bring a little satya to this thread.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe we should settle that issue once and for all? We could pick 10 people to each team - Hindu vs. Abrahmaic. They would compete in several categories: prayer, rituals, philosophical inquiry etc. And maybe also the category or awesomeness. The jury would select winning religion and losers would have to feel ashame and convert!

Like in this clip:

[oak333]

Surya Deva posted before that “Hinduism is the only true tolerant religion on this planet.”

The facts seem to infirm this. Look at the persecution of Christians in India:

http://www.gfa.org/news/articles/after-two-years-full-horror-orissa-attacks-emerging-christians-still-under-siege/

[Surya_Deva]

Namaste Oak,

Yes historically Hinduism indeed has been the tolerant religion on the planet. It contains no conversion doctrines and it has co-existed with other religions for thousands of years. However, modern Hindus are certainly angry that despite the tolerance that they show, Islamic and Chrisistian terrorists continue to ravage India and disturb the peace of Hindus. Not to mention the anti-Hindu propoganda that is openly spread by Islamic and Christian elements in India. This has lead to some misguided Hindus reacting using violence.

Personally, I condemn this kind of violence and the people who do it. Hinduism is a religion that teaches ahimsa so there is no justification for what some of these misguided Hindu people have done.

[CkarmaKat]

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35615]

Hinduism is not tolerant towards adharma. Read the Hindu texts they explicitly mention the demon religions of people outside India, that the Hindus called asura or mlecchas. Krishna explicitly says that he himself incarnates to destroy adharma.

[/QUOTE]

Well isn’t this the same thing as the ‘intolerance’ of other religions? Can’t have it both ways.

[Surya_Deva]

The difference is, Ckarmakat, Hindus choose to coexist with these relgions. However, there is a tradition of debate in Hinduism, and therefore Hindus will gladly destroy these religions in a debate. This is how Buddhism was vanquished from India. The great Adisankarachrya went around India challenging Buddhists and other religions at the time, including Hindu philosophical schools to formal debates, and they lost, so they ended up joining his samapradaya.

I have done nothing different in this thread by taking up the offer for a Hinduism vs Abrahamic religion and conclusively showing the superiority of the former over the latter. The only difference is because the people who support Abrahamic religions do not value honesty, they will not admit that this has indeed been done and pigs will fly before they join the winning camp

[CkarmaKat]

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35616] Hindusim is a superior religion and it does indeed make other religions look primitive and stupid. This is a fact. We Hindus are a superior civilisation, and the sooner you recognise this, the better it is for the future of our world. Abrahamic religions are as oudated as the dinosaurs.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35774]
I am arguing for the superiority of the worlds only true religion: Hindusim.[/QUOTE]

The assumption of superiority = judgment over others = intolerance.

Killing and raping are not requisites of intolerance:

in?tol?er?ance
?noun

1. lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc.
2. incapacity or indisposition to bear or endure: intolerance to heat.
3. abnormal sensitivity or allergy to a food, drug, etc.
4. an intolerant act.

Intolerance of others belief systems is one reason I choose not to practice a religion.

If Hinduism is indeed a tolerant religion then I can only presume that you are not practicing correctly.

[Surya_Deva]

Pepsi is superior to coke! Yeah, you heard me!

Wow, I must be so intolerant to say that

[Yulaw]

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35960]Pepsi is superior to coke! Yeah, you heard me!

Wow, I must be so intolerant to say that ;)[/QUOTE]

If that is your response to intolerance then I can only assume that you equate Hinduism to Pepsi. And in the overall scheme of things Pepsi is rather insignificant… Is that it?

Big difference between a personal preference between coke and Pepsi and religious intolerance… or maybe not… it all may all just be a personal preference after all…

[Surya_Deva]

The point is that there is always going to be something which is superior to something else. To call people intolerant for saying something is superior is therefore absurd.

Hinduism is obviously superior because it is the only religion that has no history of violence against other religions. It is the only religion whose actual religious practices work. It is the only religion that is backed up by science and actually has a scientific method for producing knowledge.

I am simply calling a spade a spade. Like I said before, I am immune to the postmodern disease of political correctness and relativism.

[CkarmaKat]

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;35983]
Hinduism is obviously superior because it is the only religion that has no history of violence against other religions.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately I am not adept in Druid history, but does anyone happen to know of any history of violence in Druidism?

[Yulaw]

The point is that there is always going to be something which is superior to something else. To call people intolerant for saying something is superior is therefore absurd.

Hinduism is obviously superior because it is the only religion that has no history of violence against other religions. It is the only religion whose actual religious practices work. It is the only religion that is backed up by science and actually has a scientific method for producing knowledge.

I am simply calling a spade a spade. Like I said before, I am immune to the postmodern disease of political correctness and relativism.[/QUOTE]

Would it be absurd to say someone is/was intolerant for stating one race of people was superior to others?

And you still have not answered my previous question either, so let me rephrase

Do you feel that Hinduism should be thought of at the same as Pepsi?

[Surya_Deva]

I never said any race of people were more superior than others. There is only one race: the human race.

I already answered your question. The Pepsi example was merely to illustrate that saying x is superior than y is not in itself intolerant.

[Surya_Deva]

[QUOTE=CkarmaKat;35984]Unfortunately I am not adept in Druid history, but does anyone happen to know of any history of violence in Druidism?[/QUOTE]

Drudism is an offshoot of ancient Aryan(Hindu) religion. Although Drudism did have many good things about it, there were human sacrifices in Drudism.

The Druids or celts were one of the tribes of ancient India which were expelled from India because of the inhumane practices.

[Surya_Deva]

Namaste,

I think some people on this forum need to realise, and I am sure those who are impartial and can see merit in what I am saying already have realised, that I want exactly the same thing that everybody else wants. That is peace, harmony and prosperity for this planet. The difference is I am being real about it, and the others on this forum are not.

They are pretending that there already is peace, harmony and prosperity and nothing needs to be changed other than our belief that we should all just coexist with one another. What they do not realise opposites never can coexist with one another. Fire cannot coexist with water and light cannot coexist with darkness. It is not coexistence we need to bring peace, harmony and prosperity to this planet. It is resolution. Those differences that separate us need to fight it out and resolve themselves and the synthesis that remains will take us further and there will be progress.

This needs to be done by actual worldwide formal debates between religions. The winning religion becomes the religion of the world.

[Surya_Deva]

And there would be absolutely no doubt in a worldwide formal debate Hindusim would emerge victorious. This is because Hinduism is falsifiable and testable. You can test whether reincarnation is true or not, but you cannot test judgement day and skeletons rising from their graves. You can test Yoga and meditation, but you cannot test baptism and praying 5 times a day.

It is high time the Abrahamic religions get formally challenged by Hindu masters to a formal worldwide debate. The loser accepts their religion is false and converts to Hinduism on the spot.