Can a Christian be a Yogi?

Spirituality Religion
#133

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41416]The whole point of pointing out a difference is to show there is no commonality in that aspect.

A and B are different English letters = difference
A and B are units of language = similarity

Christianity and Yoga are both religious-spiritual traditions = similarity
Christianity is about faith in Jesus and Yoga is about direct experience of higher states of being = difference

If you fail to see difference you will never be able to think objectively about anything and thereby you will never be taken seriously by rational people.[/QUOTE]

Faith in Jesus = direct experience of higher state of being. That’s all the man preached about.

#134

Gandhi once said there was only one great Christian and he was killed.

Is this an infallible statment?

And what does “great” have to do with anything?

Christianity is a pursuit of humility and holiness, and while many of us have fallen far short, there are many who have not.

Therefore it is absolutely clear that Yoga is the most superior religious and spiritual tradition we have on this planet. Those not willing to accept this are simply behaving like bad losers, just because their own tradition is not as good.

If I thought it was the most superior relgion, that’s what I would practice. Why would I care about being a sore loser? I would be a winner for choosing the best.

No disrespect intended, but I think yoga is an overall wonderful system, with many good elements, but in it’s totality is obsolete, since Christ has given us the full revelation of truth from God to Man concerning morals and faith, and with no errors such as the idea of reincarnation. So there’s no reason I would take a step down and have yoga as my religion, though I cannot help but see much good there, and I feel certain that many who have only yoga as their religion, and who are striving to walk in the light they’ve been given, and who have through no fault of their own failed to embrace Chrisitainity, will find salvation.

#135

If it was so helpful, why would Christians need Yoga at all?

Christians don’t need yoga. They don’t need jogging, either. Or weight lifting, or basketball, or power walking or bowling, etc. etc.

But it’s a good idea to keep the body healthy, so for some, an asana practice can do a lot of good, and for others it’s some other form of exercise.

Christians don’t need to OM, don’t need Hindu gods, don’t need false doctrines about reincarnation, don’t need gurus or swamis, can totally reject any ideas about chakras or kundalini, and don’t need a whole lot of other stuff that seems to be connected to yoga.

They DO need to do something if they don’t want to be a couch pototoes, and for me it’s “yoga.” It keeps me limber and in shape, and gets me out of the house a couple days a week. And it’s fun.

#136

I just realized in my post # 132 I made it sound like every religion uses the the road to hell. Knowing me, you understand that is NOT what I meant. oops…

#137

Again, the intentions in Christianity are great. I mean how can you go wrong with a religion that preaches loving everybody, turning the other cheek, maintaining saintly character and humility. And yet everything that could go wrong has indeed gone wrong. Despite being built on such great intentions, this religion has been a central force of destruction on this planet, killing hundreds of millions of people. Today, one of the biggest problem Christians face is hypocrisy. Nobody can maintain those intentions. Everything Jesus said don’t do - Christians do.

This is because, and it is something the great Risis of India realised long ago, that you cannot control the mind by just intention. The mind is likened to a wild animal. It naturally resists any kind of discipline, concentrating/focussing and stability. It is driven by desires for things and people outside in the world and it ties itself into knots and wastes energy on unnecessary thinking. This beast cannot be tamed by just giving an intention to be good.

But when this mind is under control it produces great enlightened minds, people who are naturally compassionate, content, joyous, positively detached, intelligent, aware, humble. It is achieives exactly the ideal person that Christian is striving to be.

So these great Risis realised that another approach was needed altogether in order bring the mind under ones control and that was the method of Yoga. They realised by observing the mind, just as one would observe a wild animal, they could see how it worked. They observed the sensations one would go through in the body when one entered into various states of being, how the breath would change in particular. They took this observation of the mind to its natural limits to observe its functioning at the conscious, subconscous and unconscious level. Their biggest discovery was realising that the breath and the mind were correlated and simply by controlling the breath the mind would follow suit. So they developed various breathing exercises in order to stabalize the mind, which evolved into meditations. This finally evolved into the systematic 8-limbed method of Yoga, which really is just a total mind-body training system.

Eureka they had found a systematic method for controlling the mind and creating joyous, content, humble, intelligent, effortless people. Since then and today this method has delivered result after result, in the form of an unbroken linage of masters. India is the country of masters and sages and still is today. People like Jesus have been a dime a dozen in this country.

Where Christianity had failed, Yoga had succeeded. This is clearly because it is a scientific method that works. Its effects can be measured, predicted and verified. This is why it enjoys the massive success it does. People would sooner give up Christianity than Yoga :wink:

#138

As for the Christian apologists, lets just face it if Christianity was so good, there would be no need for Yoga. How did the practice of another religion become so big in a country where 90% of the people were Christians? The simple answer to this is, because this practice works and the Christian practices did not work.

Christianity fails on many counts vis-a-vis Yoga. It does not give proper explanations for why we suffer and do evil things. It does not give proper explanations for why we are as we are. It does not give proper methods and practices in order to reverse that situation.
What Christianity gives, instead is just a lot of mythology, faith and superstition. Hence why humans have started rejecting it in droves.

Humans will naturally reject something which does not work and accept something which does, because we are ultimately very practical creatures. This is why Yoga against all odds has emerged as a huge power in America.

#139

The main reason people reject Christiainity, especially Catholicism, is because it interferes with their sex lives.

#140

Yep, that is definitely one of the reasons. The denial and suppression of a natural part of the body is yet another reason why humans reject something.

Christianity has always had a problem with acceptance. We yogis/Hindus have never had a problem accepting the body. We after all created the Kamasutra.

The oppression of the Church has drove people away from Christianity.

#141

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41454]Yep, that is definitely one of the reasons. The denial and suppression of a natural part of the body is yet another reason why humans reject something.

Christianity has always had a problem with acceptance. We yogis/Hindus have never had a problem accepting the body. We after all created the Kamasutra.

The oppression of the Church has drove people away from Christianity.[/QUOTE]

It’s ironic that so many who insist on not denying their natural desires, while satisfying their natural desires, take pills or use rubber devices to prevent anything natural from happening.

And whatever happened to yogis being celibate?

#142

[QUOTE=thomas;41453]The main reason people reject Christiainity, especially Catholicism, is because it interferes with their sex lives.[/QUOTE]

What about Buddhism?

#143

[QUOTE=kareng;41470]What about Buddhism?[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t being totally serious, but I think there’s a lot of truth to it.

I don’t know what Buddhism has to say about it.

#144

i suppose the same could be said of any practice that stops us doing what we like. In Buddhism they definitely suggest you give up sex altogether and if you must do it then you are to treat it with total indifference, there are even steps or grades of ways to treat it…I remember some reference about it is good not to enjoy it…Sex is very deep rooted in us so its very difficult to remove the pangs for it…it has taken me years to master it.
All the things we have been doing since ??? are the most deep rooted and the most challenging and that why people give up on them…they take time

#145

[QUOTE=thomas;41457]It’s ironic that so many who insist on not denying their natural desires, while satisfying their natural desires, take pills or use rubber devices to prevent anything natural from happening.

And whatever happened to yogis being celibate?[/QUOTE]

Celibacy is a choice in Yoga, based on whether the Yogi feels the need to be celibate. In Yoga celibacy is not recommended, but brahmacharya is, which is regulating ones sensual desires, not denying them. You can still eat, you can still engage in sex, you can still listen to music and watch movies. It is about finding the balance.

You see where Yoga wins over Christianity again is that rather than denying our natural desires, it sublimates them and gives us a structure in order to express them within.

All desires are considered legitimate parts of the growth of a soul. Material, sexual, work, spiritual. We move from one to the other naturally as we grow.
Denying any one of them stunts our growth.

The mind is filled with desires and by suppressing any desire all you end up doing is sending that desire back into the unconscious mind where it grows and grows. In order to control the mind you must first learn to accept it and the world as it is. Sit with your feelings, worries, fears, anxieties. Let them play out. In doing so you will learn more about your self and your mind will unburden some of those desires.

The best way to do this is simply sit and watch your breath, for it indicates what your mental state is like at any given time.

#146

Celibacy is a choice in Yoga, based on whether the Yogi feels the need to be celibate. In Yoga celibacy is not recommended, but brahmacharya is, which is regulating ones sensual desires, not denying them. You can still eat, you can still engage in sex, you can still listen to music and watch movies. It is about finding the balance.

Can this be with random and multiple partners?

Is there any concept of waiting until one finds a partner for life and having an exclusive relationship?

Should the man whose wife is in a coma look for a girlfriend? Should the soldier stationed overseas for a year see prostitutes or have affairs? Should the single person who hasn’t found the right partner have relations just for the fun of it? And what of the pregnancy that might happen at the wrong time and with the wrong partner?

Any sexual relationship outside of a lifelong commitment is already “unbalanced.” I think maybe you’re taking a weakness or lack of discipline and making a rationalization.

#147

No, promiscuity is not encouraged by Yoga. This is considered sexual misconduct. Sex is fine, as long as it is part of a married relationship. In the traditional society one would observe celibacy for the first quarter of their life(to the age of 25) Then one would get married and enjoy the pleasures of sex with their partner, and then obviously have children with them.

However that was then in ancient India. Today we are living in a different society which is not as ideal as the one ancient Indians were living. We are living in a society where boys and girls mix up at school, there is a culture of rampant sex and wherever we look we see sexual imagery. It is hard to go out in this society and not be tempted by sex.

In fact I know very well growing up in this society just how much sex was encouraged from early teens. You had to lose your virginity one way or another and then brag about it your friends. That was then 20 years ago, today children as young as 5-6 are being sexualised.

So rather than observing celibacy or monogomy in this current age, Yoga instead recommends regulation of your sexual and sensual activity. The mind can follow that, but it cannot follow a dictate “Thou shalt not have sex” It has to be gradually be withdrawn from sensual and sexual activity and this is done through a combination of accepting the mind as it is and then practicing Yoga disciplines to gradually tame it.

#148

What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?

#149

[QUOTE=kareng;41617]What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?[/QUOTE]

He’s a legend in his own mind.

#150

[QUOTE=kareng;41617]What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?[/QUOTE]

I just finished writing a fairly brief autobiography of my experience as a yogi in the brahmacharya thread. It chronicles pretty much my development over the period of a decade. This has been my yoga.

#151

The mind can follow that, but it cannot follow a dictate “Thou shalt not have sex” It has to be gradually be withdrawn from sensual and sexual activity and this is done through a combination of accepting the mind as it is and then practicing Yoga disciplines to gradually tame it.

Would the heart-break, the unexpected pregnancy, or an abortion and guilt and regret over killing the baby be the means to this end.

My experience has been that scratching an itch makes it itch more and not less, and that in leaving it alone, it eventually subsides.

#152

Contolling Human beings with an order is difficult Thomas, unfortunately, at times we have to see the errors we make, the hard way.

Theres a whole chapter in Buddhist text devoted to, the itch!