Can a Christian be a Yogi?

Spirituality Religion
#138

As for the Christian apologists, lets just face it if Christianity was so good, there would be no need for Yoga. How did the practice of another religion become so big in a country where 90% of the people were Christians? The simple answer to this is, because this practice works and the Christian practices did not work.

Christianity fails on many counts vis-a-vis Yoga. It does not give proper explanations for why we suffer and do evil things. It does not give proper explanations for why we are as we are. It does not give proper methods and practices in order to reverse that situation.
What Christianity gives, instead is just a lot of mythology, faith and superstition. Hence why humans have started rejecting it in droves.

Humans will naturally reject something which does not work and accept something which does, because we are ultimately very practical creatures. This is why Yoga against all odds has emerged as a huge power in America.

#139

The main reason people reject Christiainity, especially Catholicism, is because it interferes with their sex lives.

#140

Yep, that is definitely one of the reasons. The denial and suppression of a natural part of the body is yet another reason why humans reject something.

Christianity has always had a problem with acceptance. We yogis/Hindus have never had a problem accepting the body. We after all created the Kamasutra.

The oppression of the Church has drove people away from Christianity.

#141

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41454]Yep, that is definitely one of the reasons. The denial and suppression of a natural part of the body is yet another reason why humans reject something.

Christianity has always had a problem with acceptance. We yogis/Hindus have never had a problem accepting the body. We after all created the Kamasutra.

The oppression of the Church has drove people away from Christianity.[/QUOTE]

It’s ironic that so many who insist on not denying their natural desires, while satisfying their natural desires, take pills or use rubber devices to prevent anything natural from happening.

And whatever happened to yogis being celibate?

#142

[QUOTE=thomas;41453]The main reason people reject Christiainity, especially Catholicism, is because it interferes with their sex lives.[/QUOTE]

What about Buddhism?

#143

[QUOTE=kareng;41470]What about Buddhism?[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t being totally serious, but I think there’s a lot of truth to it.

I don’t know what Buddhism has to say about it.

#144

i suppose the same could be said of any practice that stops us doing what we like. In Buddhism they definitely suggest you give up sex altogether and if you must do it then you are to treat it with total indifference, there are even steps or grades of ways to treat it…I remember some reference about it is good not to enjoy it…Sex is very deep rooted in us so its very difficult to remove the pangs for it…it has taken me years to master it.
All the things we have been doing since ??? are the most deep rooted and the most challenging and that why people give up on them…they take time

#145

[QUOTE=thomas;41457]It’s ironic that so many who insist on not denying their natural desires, while satisfying their natural desires, take pills or use rubber devices to prevent anything natural from happening.

And whatever happened to yogis being celibate?[/QUOTE]

Celibacy is a choice in Yoga, based on whether the Yogi feels the need to be celibate. In Yoga celibacy is not recommended, but brahmacharya is, which is regulating ones sensual desires, not denying them. You can still eat, you can still engage in sex, you can still listen to music and watch movies. It is about finding the balance.

You see where Yoga wins over Christianity again is that rather than denying our natural desires, it sublimates them and gives us a structure in order to express them within.

All desires are considered legitimate parts of the growth of a soul. Material, sexual, work, spiritual. We move from one to the other naturally as we grow.
Denying any one of them stunts our growth.

The mind is filled with desires and by suppressing any desire all you end up doing is sending that desire back into the unconscious mind where it grows and grows. In order to control the mind you must first learn to accept it and the world as it is. Sit with your feelings, worries, fears, anxieties. Let them play out. In doing so you will learn more about your self and your mind will unburden some of those desires.

The best way to do this is simply sit and watch your breath, for it indicates what your mental state is like at any given time.

#146

Celibacy is a choice in Yoga, based on whether the Yogi feels the need to be celibate. In Yoga celibacy is not recommended, but brahmacharya is, which is regulating ones sensual desires, not denying them. You can still eat, you can still engage in sex, you can still listen to music and watch movies. It is about finding the balance.

Can this be with random and multiple partners?

Is there any concept of waiting until one finds a partner for life and having an exclusive relationship?

Should the man whose wife is in a coma look for a girlfriend? Should the soldier stationed overseas for a year see prostitutes or have affairs? Should the single person who hasn’t found the right partner have relations just for the fun of it? And what of the pregnancy that might happen at the wrong time and with the wrong partner?

Any sexual relationship outside of a lifelong commitment is already “unbalanced.” I think maybe you’re taking a weakness or lack of discipline and making a rationalization.

#147

No, promiscuity is not encouraged by Yoga. This is considered sexual misconduct. Sex is fine, as long as it is part of a married relationship. In the traditional society one would observe celibacy for the first quarter of their life(to the age of 25) Then one would get married and enjoy the pleasures of sex with their partner, and then obviously have children with them.

However that was then in ancient India. Today we are living in a different society which is not as ideal as the one ancient Indians were living. We are living in a society where boys and girls mix up at school, there is a culture of rampant sex and wherever we look we see sexual imagery. It is hard to go out in this society and not be tempted by sex.

In fact I know very well growing up in this society just how much sex was encouraged from early teens. You had to lose your virginity one way or another and then brag about it your friends. That was then 20 years ago, today children as young as 5-6 are being sexualised.

So rather than observing celibacy or monogomy in this current age, Yoga instead recommends regulation of your sexual and sensual activity. The mind can follow that, but it cannot follow a dictate “Thou shalt not have sex” It has to be gradually be withdrawn from sensual and sexual activity and this is done through a combination of accepting the mind as it is and then practicing Yoga disciplines to gradually tame it.

#148

What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?

#149

[QUOTE=kareng;41617]What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?[/QUOTE]

He’s a legend in his own mind.

#150

[QUOTE=kareng;41617]What are your actual experiences as a yogi Surya? What can you tell us?[/QUOTE]

I just finished writing a fairly brief autobiography of my experience as a yogi in the brahmacharya thread. It chronicles pretty much my development over the period of a decade. This has been my yoga.

#151

The mind can follow that, but it cannot follow a dictate “Thou shalt not have sex” It has to be gradually be withdrawn from sensual and sexual activity and this is done through a combination of accepting the mind as it is and then practicing Yoga disciplines to gradually tame it.

Would the heart-break, the unexpected pregnancy, or an abortion and guilt and regret over killing the baby be the means to this end.

My experience has been that scratching an itch makes it itch more and not less, and that in leaving it alone, it eventually subsides.

#152

Contolling Human beings with an order is difficult Thomas, unfortunately, at times we have to see the errors we make, the hard way.

Theres a whole chapter in Buddhist text devoted to, the itch!

#153

Are we to regulate any desires to be adulterers?

If there is a desire to commit adultery, it should be indulged because it would be wrong to repress it?

I think it would be best to do whatever is necessary to avoid adultery, including repression, if necessary.

Eventually the temptation will pass.

There is no good way to regulate fornication. That’s like regulating how much poison we consume.

#154

I think the ten commandments is a wise list of rules if you want a peaceful life.
Seeing truly, the pain and misery you create by breaking those rules is why they should be obeyed. I have no problem in understanding the necessity for these rules in life…

In Buddhism you have this…its called [B]The Noble Eightfold Path[/B] of course each one has examples of what each rule means

  1. Right View

  2. Right Intention these two are Wisdom

  3. Right Speech

  4. Right Action

  5. Right Livelihood these three are Ethical Conduct

  6. Right Effort

  7. Right Mindfulness

  8. Right Concentration these three are Mental Development

And then you have these:

[B]The Four Noble Truths[/B] of course each one has its explanation Why

  1. Life means suffering.

  2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

  3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

  4. The path to the cessation of suffering.

and this

All experience is preceded by mind,
Led by mind,
Made by mind.
Speak or act with a corrupted mind,
And suffering follows
As the wagon wheel follows the hoof of the ox.

All experience is preceded by mind,
Led by mind,
Made by mind.
Speak or act with a peaceful mind,
And happiness follows
Like a never-departing shadow.

we are on the same page really Thomas, I have no doubt in that xx A main sentence in Buddhism is that we create our misery’s through DESIRE in its broadest sense… like the story of the tree of knowledge in Genesis and eating from it etc.

#155

Comparing the primitive ten commandments with the enlightened 8-fold path of Buddhism or the yama and niyamas of Yoga is like comparing stone wheel carts with maglev trains

The ten commandments are absolute laws we must abide by or else face death. The 8-fold path and the yamas and niyamas are general guidelines humans should follow to live a life of well being.

Humans cannot follow dictates. They can follow guidelines, provided those guidelines are sensible.

Even the priests and popes in the Church cannot follow the dictates. So how the hell do you expect average joe to?

#156

I don’t mind if you boast about your religion and say it’s the best, SD, that’s a natural thing to do. And I can tolerate your boasting about yourself, and at times it’s even amusing.

But it pisses me off that you go out of your way to disparage other faiths, and especially when you misrepresent and distort.

What does is say about Hinduism and yoga when swamis and gurus have sex with their followers? I think it says that these people failed and abused their positions of power and authority, but it doesn’t say that it’s the fault of Hinduisim or yoga, and it would be unfair to say that it was.

SOME people in high places in the Church have failed, and that’s all you care to look at, but you should be judging the Church and Christianity by the successes, and there are many, of which you are totally ignorant, or choose to ignore.

I will not judge Hinduism by fornicating swamis, but by those who have walked in whatever light Hinduism sheds.

Humans CAN follow dictates. Humans can resist doing wrong because of fear of punishment. Humans can also transcend that and do right out of a love of God. Humans can also sin and stumble and be forgiven and start over.

I have met many “average joes” in my church who are good holy and spirtual people because of their devotion to Catholicism.

The fear of God is just the beginning, as would be a fear of imprisonment to someone inclined to stealing. Eventually that fear can be refined into a desire to do good.

#157

Comparing the primitive ten commandments with the enlightened 8-fold path of Buddhism or the yama and niyamas of Yoga is like comparing stone wheel carts with maglev trains

I can understand why you find this way superior, since it gives you much wiggle room to excuse fornication and “regulate” it instead of denying yourself.