Can a Christian be a Yogi?

Spirituality Religion
#121

Mathematically, if you could ask a square if it was a rectangle it would say yes I am a rectangle but mathematically if you ask a rectangle is it is square it will say no. A square need not discard anything to be a rectangle but a rectangle has to discard part of 2 sides to be a square.

          PLUS

yogi

  1. a person who practices yoga.
  2. a person who is a master of yoga

Word Origin & History

yogi - “one who practices yoga,” 1619, from Hindi yogi , from Skt. yoga-
Origin: 1610–20; < Skt yogī, nom. sing. of yogin, deriv. of yoga yoga

yogini - female

Christian
1.of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.
2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country.
3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades.
4.exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity.
5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial.
6.human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn’t Christian.
7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.
9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.
10.the hero of Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress.
11.a male given name.

Origin:
1250–1300; < L Chrīstiānus < Gk Chrīstiān?s, equiv. to Chrīst ( ?s ) Christ + -iānos < L -iānus -ian; r. ME, OE cristen < L

OK guys, now put it together! Can’t wait to see it!

#122

We are talking about Christian doctrine here. There is nothing about self-development in Christian doctrine, because there is no concept of Self(with a big S) The idea that one can self-actualize in the body itself is fundamentally opposed to Christian doctrine. The body is not a vehicle to the divine in Christian doctrine, it is impure, evil, an obstacle and it must be shunned for a life of poverty and service to Christ. Only unwaivering faith in Christ can save you and nothing else.

And this excludes Christians how? I certainly hope they are aware of self. I do believe Christians exercise, watch their diet, meditate via prayers and try to live a good balanced life.

Again we are talking about Christian doctine. Show me anywere in the bible where it says you should exercise, eat a balanced and healthy diet and meditate to control your mind and perceieve things for what they really are to achieive salvation. It is nowhere to be found. Instead what is found is the opposing doctrine that we must redeem ourselves through accepting Jesus as the way, life and truth, confess our sins and strive to a sinless life.

For most Christians simply accepting Jesus and believing in him is all that you need to do. There is nothing equivalent in Yoga.

If you look at the sutras and the eight fold path, many, if not all the ideas can be applied to most religions. Goal is the same. As far as values, who cares? If the goals are basically the same and the values are based on attaining those goals or goal, it matters not whether you are a christian, jew or muslim. The end goal is the same albeit different paths.

Again we are talking about Christian doctrine. Nope the goal is not the same.
The goal of Yoga is to achieive moksha and that is the ending of the otherwise endless cycle of rebirth by achieving union with the divine soul in this life. The goal of Christianity is to attain eternal life in the life hereafter by passing the final test of judgement day.

Yoga, whether it is embraced though Hinduism, christianity, etc can lead to living a better, happier life. Why would anyone deny that of another?

Again we are talking about Christian doctrine. I am not deying Christians the right to do Yoga. It is Christian doctrine which denies Christians the right to do Yoga. You are no longer Christian if you accept Yoga.

Yoga and Christianity are mutual opposites.

#123

Two very informative, well articulated and and sincere presentations on Yoga and Christianity

Christianity and Yoga from a Christian perspective: http://christianspracticingyoga.com/wp/

Christianity and Yoga from a Hindu perspective:
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm#Hostility to Yoga in Church

I was surprised by how sincere, accurate and honest the Christian presentation above was. It certainly did a lot to show some of the similarities between Yoga and Christianity and helped me appreciate them. However, I did find that many times, some of the similarities were tenuously drawn. For example calling the Christian contemplative tradition in the monastic order “meditation” This is not meditation, anymore than reading a book is meditation. The aim of meditation is not fill your mind with thoughts by thinking intensely, but to empty the mind of thoughts through complete suspension of thought.

This presentation also makes a case which is being echoed here that Yoga is not denominational and is not exclusive to any particular religion: Hinduism, Buddhism or Jainism. It does not prescribe faith in any particular deity. It is a spiritual program for self-development for living a fuller life and cultivating our highest potentials, and is based on scientific observation. Therefore it is measurable, predictable and neutral.
There is no dispute at all that Yoga is a vigorous science and it is a very powerful system of mind-body training, with tremendous benefits, but the point that it is not Hindu is very contentious and hinges on what the definition of Hinduism is. It is an open and shut case that Yoga is not Hinduism, if Hinduism is defined as the worship of Indian deities like Shiva, Rama, Ganesha, Durga, Kali, Hanuman etc. However, this rather than being a definition of Hinduism, is a misconception and stereotype about Hinduism held by ignorant people, and is not what is officially recognised to be Hinduism. The official definition of Hinduism recognises Hinduism as non-denominational, non-prophetic(i.e., no prophets or founders) and non-dogmatic(no fixed deities, rituals, moral codes and clergy).

In fact what is recognised to be Hinduism is based on general philosophies and practices that all denominations within Hinduism share. They are as enumerated before

  1. The doctrine of Self and Self-realization through Yoga
  2. The doctrine of the law of karma and reincarnation
  3. The doctrine of law of dharma
  4. the doctrine of the complex cosmology and anatomy of the universe and body
  5. The doctrine of the student-teacher tradition

There is no single Hinduism denomination that does not share the above 5. So these 5 general doctrines are what define Hinduism. You know you are talking to a Hindu if they subscribe to these doctrines. But these are also the doctrines that a Yogi subscribes too. In other words a Hindu and a Yogi are equivalent terms and refer to exactly the same philosophy and practice.

Therefore can a Christian be a Yogi? No more than a square can be a circle. Rather than debating this point to death, we simply should accept Christianity does not teach Yoga philosophy and practice. It simply is not an enlightened enough tradition as Yoga is and it fails to satisfy the spiritual hunger of humans. This is why it is been strongly rejected in the past century and why Hinduism via the pseudonom of Yoga is replacing it. Humanity is returning back to its real natural religious roots: Hinduism.

Christianity, Judasim and Islam and even Buddhisms are corruptions of the natural religion of Hinduism. They all evolved out of Hinduism during the descent phase of Kali yuga, and are all now returning to Hinduism during the ascent phase towards Satya yuga. There is no question about it, we are all becoming Hindu - slowly but surely.

#124

SD,

Your thinking is much too literal, thereby very narrow in scope. Call me new age, call me whatever you like. I know that how I view all of this, more inclusive and open, makes me a much happier person. I like to see the good and how we can all join together toward a mutual goal. I chose not see how different we are as that would pigeon-hole me as intolerant. I accept your views as your own. They are not the definitive answer to the OP question. They are your views. And that is OK. At some point you will open your eyes to see the beauty and truth that you have missed. I have a sense that time will come soon for you. Embrace it.

#125

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;41399]SD,

Your thinking is much too literal, thereby very narrow in scope. Call me new age, call me whatever you like. I know that how I view all of this, more inclusive and open, makes me a much happier person. I like to see the good and how we can all join together toward a mutual goal. I chose not see how different we are as that would pigeon-hole me as intolerant. I accept your views as your own. They are not the definitive answer to the OP question. They are your views. And that is OK. At some point you will open your eyes to see the beauty and truth that you have missed. I have a sense that time will come soon for you. Embrace it.[/QUOTE]

It is great to see similarities, but it is also great to see differences. I think you only look at similarities. Thereby your scope is vague, foggy, simplistic and unintentionally misleading.

Yes, there are similarities between Yoga and Christianity(which the Christians practicing Yoga website shows very well) but there are also very fundamental differences. We cannot just ignore those differences. They are not going to go away by ignoring them. As long as they are there, people like me, Thomas and scholars will bring them up.

Perhaps, the best advice I can give you is to learn to accept differences as well. Critical thinking is a virtue, not a curse.

#126

If you look at differences as a way to find commonality, then yes I would agree.

Acceptance and embracement is what is needed. When we only point out differences it does nothing to promote this and only divides. Accept the differences and find a way to coexist. Imagine Flex showing off his tee-shirt here for effect.

I liken it to racial tension. When we only concentrate on the differences, that is all we see. We see US and THEM. We don’t see humans. When we find commonality and can celebrate the differences (as in unique) we can then live peacefully and together enjoying the common bond. Call it simplistic, that’s fine. It works for me.

#127

The whole point of pointing out a difference is to show there is no commonality in that aspect.

A and B are different English letters = difference
A and B are units of language = similarity

Christianity and Yoga are both religious-spiritual traditions = similarity
Christianity is about faith in Jesus and Yoga is about direct experience of higher states of being = difference

If you fail to see difference you will never be able to think objectively about anything and thereby you will never be taken seriously by rational people.

#128

Then so be it!

#129

In which case I should not take you seriously at all, because all your views are subjective, opinions and henceforth completely unreliable. Unfortunately, you cross the line all the time when you start passing of your opinion as facts. This is when the wrath of critical thinkers befalls you :smiley:

If you are going to communicate anything in a public forum you should be prepared to support your views and defend them, else simply not participate. This is the beauty of the public sphere and democracy.

#130

Think of me any way you like SD. It’s OK with me.

BTW, I have supported my views. Like usual, you never see them!

#131

It is not that I do not see it, I see it alright, but there is not much to see. They are not useful or increase our understanding of the subject.

I think the general problem with your views is best expressed in the saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You have good intentions in that you want to show that all religious and spiritual traditions in the world have only one aim and that is to reconnect to the divine in some way or the other. Were all driving in some way or the other to reach that goal and essentially every religion is a stepping stone towards that.

Unfortunately, what you do not acknowledge that each religious and spiritual tradition has a different method, a different set of beliefs, different doctrines and because they are different they are mutually contradictory. They cannot all be right, some of them have to be more right and wrong than others. Therefore some of them are more valid than others in achieiving those goals.

Christianity is obviously not all that helpful if we go by its track record. Gandhi once said there was only one great Christian and he was killed. The rest that have followed have been saints and popes who have been behind crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings, child molestation and suppression. If it was so helpful, why would Christians need Yoga at all? Clearly Christianity is a very flawed religion and leaves a lot to be desired.

Yoga is obviously incredibly helpful if we go by its track record. It is a 5,000 year old practice which continues on today. It is a multibillion dollar industry and is widespread across the world. It is so powerful, Christians are willing to go against their Church in order to practice it. It is even accepted by science, because its effects are measurable and predictable. It has produced a fantastic track record of enlightened masters and sages from hundreds of Vedic Risis, Krishna, Janaka, Patanjali, Sankarcharya, Buddha, Bodhisattvas, Mahavira, the Alvars, Guru Nanak, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Ramana Maharishi, Aurobindo. In fact the list is endless. Even today those doing Yoga are reaping its benefits.

Therefore it is absolutely clear that Yoga is the most superior religious and spiritual tradition we have on this planet. Those not willing to accept this are simply behaving like bad losers, just because their own tradition is not as good. In any case any rational person will go with what works the best. And that is most people are doing today. They are rejecting Abrahamic religions for Yoga.

#132

They are not useful or increase our understanding of the subject.

To you maybe. My understanding is different.

I think the general problem with your views is best expressed in the saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You have good intentions in that you want to show that all religious and spiritual traditions in the world have only one aim and that is to reconnect to the divine in some way or the other. Were all driving in some way or the other to reach that goal and essentially every religion is a stepping stone towards that.

Your opinion. I do not liken my view to “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”.

And yes, every religion is a stepping stone to that end. This I do believe.

#133

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;41416]The whole point of pointing out a difference is to show there is no commonality in that aspect.

A and B are different English letters = difference
A and B are units of language = similarity

Christianity and Yoga are both religious-spiritual traditions = similarity
Christianity is about faith in Jesus and Yoga is about direct experience of higher states of being = difference

If you fail to see difference you will never be able to think objectively about anything and thereby you will never be taken seriously by rational people.[/QUOTE]

Faith in Jesus = direct experience of higher state of being. That’s all the man preached about.

#134

Gandhi once said there was only one great Christian and he was killed.

Is this an infallible statment?

And what does “great” have to do with anything?

Christianity is a pursuit of humility and holiness, and while many of us have fallen far short, there are many who have not.

Therefore it is absolutely clear that Yoga is the most superior religious and spiritual tradition we have on this planet. Those not willing to accept this are simply behaving like bad losers, just because their own tradition is not as good.

If I thought it was the most superior relgion, that’s what I would practice. Why would I care about being a sore loser? I would be a winner for choosing the best.

No disrespect intended, but I think yoga is an overall wonderful system, with many good elements, but in it’s totality is obsolete, since Christ has given us the full revelation of truth from God to Man concerning morals and faith, and with no errors such as the idea of reincarnation. So there’s no reason I would take a step down and have yoga as my religion, though I cannot help but see much good there, and I feel certain that many who have only yoga as their religion, and who are striving to walk in the light they’ve been given, and who have through no fault of their own failed to embrace Chrisitainity, will find salvation.

#135

If it was so helpful, why would Christians need Yoga at all?

Christians don’t need yoga. They don’t need jogging, either. Or weight lifting, or basketball, or power walking or bowling, etc. etc.

But it’s a good idea to keep the body healthy, so for some, an asana practice can do a lot of good, and for others it’s some other form of exercise.

Christians don’t need to OM, don’t need Hindu gods, don’t need false doctrines about reincarnation, don’t need gurus or swamis, can totally reject any ideas about chakras or kundalini, and don’t need a whole lot of other stuff that seems to be connected to yoga.

They DO need to do something if they don’t want to be a couch pototoes, and for me it’s “yoga.” It keeps me limber and in shape, and gets me out of the house a couple days a week. And it’s fun.

#136

I just realized in my post # 132 I made it sound like every religion uses the the road to hell. Knowing me, you understand that is NOT what I meant. oops…

#137

Again, the intentions in Christianity are great. I mean how can you go wrong with a religion that preaches loving everybody, turning the other cheek, maintaining saintly character and humility. And yet everything that could go wrong has indeed gone wrong. Despite being built on such great intentions, this religion has been a central force of destruction on this planet, killing hundreds of millions of people. Today, one of the biggest problem Christians face is hypocrisy. Nobody can maintain those intentions. Everything Jesus said don’t do - Christians do.

This is because, and it is something the great Risis of India realised long ago, that you cannot control the mind by just intention. The mind is likened to a wild animal. It naturally resists any kind of discipline, concentrating/focussing and stability. It is driven by desires for things and people outside in the world and it ties itself into knots and wastes energy on unnecessary thinking. This beast cannot be tamed by just giving an intention to be good.

But when this mind is under control it produces great enlightened minds, people who are naturally compassionate, content, joyous, positively detached, intelligent, aware, humble. It is achieives exactly the ideal person that Christian is striving to be.

So these great Risis realised that another approach was needed altogether in order bring the mind under ones control and that was the method of Yoga. They realised by observing the mind, just as one would observe a wild animal, they could see how it worked. They observed the sensations one would go through in the body when one entered into various states of being, how the breath would change in particular. They took this observation of the mind to its natural limits to observe its functioning at the conscious, subconscous and unconscious level. Their biggest discovery was realising that the breath and the mind were correlated and simply by controlling the breath the mind would follow suit. So they developed various breathing exercises in order to stabalize the mind, which evolved into meditations. This finally evolved into the systematic 8-limbed method of Yoga, which really is just a total mind-body training system.

Eureka they had found a systematic method for controlling the mind and creating joyous, content, humble, intelligent, effortless people. Since then and today this method has delivered result after result, in the form of an unbroken linage of masters. India is the country of masters and sages and still is today. People like Jesus have been a dime a dozen in this country.

Where Christianity had failed, Yoga had succeeded. This is clearly because it is a scientific method that works. Its effects can be measured, predicted and verified. This is why it enjoys the massive success it does. People would sooner give up Christianity than Yoga :wink:

#138

As for the Christian apologists, lets just face it if Christianity was so good, there would be no need for Yoga. How did the practice of another religion become so big in a country where 90% of the people were Christians? The simple answer to this is, because this practice works and the Christian practices did not work.

Christianity fails on many counts vis-a-vis Yoga. It does not give proper explanations for why we suffer and do evil things. It does not give proper explanations for why we are as we are. It does not give proper methods and practices in order to reverse that situation.
What Christianity gives, instead is just a lot of mythology, faith and superstition. Hence why humans have started rejecting it in droves.

Humans will naturally reject something which does not work and accept something which does, because we are ultimately very practical creatures. This is why Yoga against all odds has emerged as a huge power in America.

#139

The main reason people reject Christiainity, especially Catholicism, is because it interferes with their sex lives.

#140

Yep, that is definitely one of the reasons. The denial and suppression of a natural part of the body is yet another reason why humans reject something.

Christianity has always had a problem with acceptance. We yogis/Hindus have never had a problem accepting the body. We after all created the Kamasutra.

The oppression of the Church has drove people away from Christianity.