Well that Yogi was setting a bad example stealing all those pickinick baskets.
Poor Boo Boo. I wonder if he followed him into a life of crime.
Dear FP,
Every Sunday I look at all those yogis and yoginis sitting with me in church and all I see flowing from them is such peace, light, harmony and love that I can only answer YES to your question.
The mind will always divide, draw distinctions, separate and categorise, but what is important is what is in your heart. If you have peace about the truth in your heart, nothing else matters.
[QUOTE=Pandara;40994]The mind will always divide, draw distinctions, separate and categorise, but what is important is what is in your heart. If you have peace about the truth in your heart, nothing else matters.[/QUOTE]
You are speaking my language.
[QUOTE=Pandara;40994]Dear FP,
Every Sunday I look at all those yogis and yoginis sitting with me in church and all I see flowing from them is such peace, light, harmony and love that I can only answer YES to your question.
The mind will always divide, draw distinctions, separate and categorise, but what is important is what is in your heart. If you have peace about the truth in your heart, nothing else matters.[/QUOTE]
Is it yoga that led you to add beliefs about reincarnation to Christian beliefs?
If so, and if your friends are in the same boat, then that speaks against Christianity and yoga being compatable.
Of course we could call yoga Christianity, and then for sure anyone who practices yoga is a Christian, but Christianity is more than a name, and what Christ taught was more than just suggestions.
He came to save, but a belief in reincarnation makes his suffering on the cross to be meaningless, since there is no need to look for salvation if we keep coming back for another chance.
There is zero support for reincarnation in any scripture, the Catholic Church, or in 99% of Protestant churches. It’s a concept that is totally in opposition to Christianity.
So I would have to say that your example proves nothing (if these people are reincarnationists) because they are believing in a corruption of Christianity.
And we are comprised of an intellect and a will (or a mind and a heart).
The heart needs to be informed by the mind, and must not be followed blindly.
No, in my heart I just knew from a very young age about the existence of reincarnation, although at that point I didn’t identify it as reincarnation, [B][I]I only identified is as I have existed before[/I][/B] and has made many claims of this towards my parents. This was based on my many and various visions I had as a young boy and still have about lifes I have lived over millenia. I didn’t know that the word “reincarnation” even existed until I was about 20 and was introduced to it when I attended a lecture at the Theosophical Society one evening on karma and reincarnation and immediately knew in my heart this is my truth. I only started doing yoga when I was 27, I am now 40. Much of my beliefs was formed long before I started doing yoga. When I started doing yoga it only confirmed and strenghtened that which I have come to know in my heart as TRUTH.
Thomas, I care very little wether there is support in Christian literature, including the Bible, for reincarnation or not (according to me there is plenty, but I won’t bore you with it as you have already made it so clear that you are not respectful of other views and continue to judge as if you are God’s representative and utmost emissary on this matter). I care very little for salvation dogma as well and if that constitutes in your books that I am lost, then so be it. What I do care is that I live in harmony with Divine Will for my life. My own will and intellect doesn’t matter much to me at this stage in my life, but what my heart says, that I will follow blindly. Further more I don’t need your permission or approval to belief what I do, I will stand responsible before the Lords of Karma and the Divine for what I belief one day and fortunately you won’t be there and that is all that is important to me.
Karen said, “Can a Christian be a Hindu” 
That is actually the most ironic and most accurate question raised in this thread. I mean what is Yoga if not just another name for “Hinduism” There are plenty of names Hinduism goes under: Yoga, Vedic religion, Santana dharma.
The doctrines of Yoga are all Hindu doctrines and I have already shown this is in “Is Yoga Hinduism” thread. Those doctrines are:
The doctrine of Self and Self-realization as the highest goal of life
The law of karma and reincarnation
The law of dharma
The cosmology of the various planes of reality(prana chakras, nadis included)
The guru-student tradition
We should stop trying to delude ourselves into believing Yoga is anything other than Hinduism. Yoga does not make sense in any other religion. It is a heresy.
Again Yoga cannot be separated from its spirituality. The word itself means the science of self-realization by the union of the individual soul with the universal soul. This itself presupposes the doctrine of karma and reincarnation as the individual soul exists only as insofar as it is not self-realized, and this goes on for many lifetimes. The fact that it is a science itself presupposes the law of dharma as spiritual law. This presupposes the cosmology of the various planes of reality going from spiritual to physical and the complex spiritual anatomy of the individual soul(prana, chakras, nadis) Finally, those who have realised Yoga itself presupposes the guru-student tradition where the enlightened master then teaches others.
Stop being ignorant and insist that this is present in all religions, because it is NOT. This is the Hindu religion and what it teaches. You either accept it or reject it. If you are going to accept it, you cannot escape the label of being called Hindu.
Doing any kind of yoga is an endorsement of Hinduism and what it teaches. Even just doing asanas just for physical benefits. As Hinduism itself teaches that just working on the physical is valid and is a legitimate pursuit of life. But then again even engaging in critical and scientific thinking(viveka) is endorsing Hinduism, because Hinduism itself teaches one to think critically and always weigh the evidence against reason and experience. Yet again, working on your own personal development, is Hindu.
Believing in evolution, big bang theory, cyclic universe, energy, atoms, laws of the universe is yet another endorsement of Hinduism. These are all concepts which are central to Hinduism.
Now one could then say that all of these things are natural. Yeah, and has it occurred to you there maybe a natural religion that goes by the name of Hinduism/Yoga/Vedic religion/Santana dharma.
We are already moving towards a Hindu society. This has been underway ever since the dawn of the modern age of enlightenment. As soon as free and critical thinking divorced from the church was allowed in the West, the move towards a Hindu society was set into motion and is has been gaining momentum for centuries now. I showed in the “Will America become Hindu by the end of the century” that Western society is already Hindu in its character.
Around 20-30 million(10-25%) Americans practice Yoga. Around 25% of Americans believe in reincarnation(higher figures in Europe) Hindu concepts like karma, prana and chakras are widely influencial and pervasive throughout Western society. Almost every bookshop will contain a huge mind-body-spirit section that is literally full of Hinduism. Now Hinduism is being spread by the new-age movement and millions of Americans are being exposed to its ideas and warming to them. The famous motto of India, “unity in diversity” is reflected in the postmodern and multicultural landscape of today.
There is an explanation for why this is happening in Hinduism itself. The Yuga is changing. We are coming out of the age of ignorance(Abrahamic phase) back into the age of truth(dharmic phase) It is inexorable. Hinduism will flourish on this planet again.
How did Hinduism come into being in the first place? Hinduism has been on this planet for a very long time. The current phase of human civilisation started in India more than 10,000 years ago in the Indus valley civilisation. This civilisation is widely considered to be the oldest, largest and most advanced ancient civilisation. It was twice the size of Sumeria and Egypt put together. As this civilisation had an abundance of natural resources, riches and great climate, here flourished first a highly material civilisation. As they had a lot of time to contemplate and pursue higher things like art, culture, philosophy and science, it flourished into a spiritual civilisation whose religion became Hinduism. This was the first age of enlightenment and it took place in the East. It is absolutely clear now that the East were at the top of the world before the West and only people who are historically ignorant of the long history of human civilisation state otherwise.
Then 6000 years ago the decline began and this is reflected in the Indus Valley civilisation itself which deteoriates around 2000BCE. Many religions spring up in competition to Hinduism such as Buddhism and Jainism(known as Smarma tradition) and India splits up into various feuding provinces. It is during this period the great war of the Mahabharata take places which claims the lives of millions of people. This leads to further splits with factions leaving India and going to the West starting up the Sumerian, European and Egyptian civilisations and the beginning of Abrahamic religions.
Then follows the age of empires all over the world. Sumerian empires rise and fall. Egyptian empires rise and fall. Persian empires rise and fall. Indian empires rise and fall. European empires rise and fall. Islamic empires rise and fall. Chinese empires rise and fall. Native American empires rise and fall. This a period of constant war, invasion, colonization.
The second phase of current human civilisation started 500 years ago(yuga has changed) with the age of enlightenment from Europe. This is the beginning of the end of the dark ages on this planet(Abrahamic phase) and it took place because of the transference of Hinduism from India to Europe. First indirectly, via the Arabs and the Greeks where she learned about philosophy, art, science, medicine and culture. Then directly through India when she colonized India and learned about the Vedas, Sanskrit, Yoga, Ayurveda. During this period a flood of Hindu missionaries flooded into America and ever since America has been turning Hindu.
Like India was, America will become the new centre of spiritual civilisation on this planet for our current age. This is why the full transference of Hinduism from India to America is taking place right now. This is also why America and India have become allies and Indians are flooding in from India and taking control of America. America is India in the making. The torch of enlightenment is being passed on. This was already clear when America was set-up as an example of a free country where one could pursue wealth, happiness and pleasure(Hindu values) and it did not take long for Hinduism to come to America thereafter.
Hinduism now goes under a new name - the American avatar - New age spirituality. But America is still an infant and is the process of growing up. According to the Hindu sages such as Sri Yuketsar, there is still another 700 years to go before America becomes a complete spiritual society and the age of truth once again dawns. In this period there will be a period of great tribulation. India will be destroyed and the Abrahamic hold on this planet will be destroyed. Meanwhile, in America many highly evolved souls are incarnating and many gurus have jumped ship to America.
Free will very much is an illusion. Everything is moving ahead according to the laws of nature. By the end of this century the real history of this planet will become clear to everybody and Hinduism will flourish.
I guess the short answer is SD votes no.
It is really not a question. Religion and Yoga are mutually exclusive. ‘Religion divides, Yoga unites’. No concepts like reincarnation should become stumbling blocks. Self-experience is the only authority in Yoga. There is no room for any belief. So, its upto you, your practice, your transformation, your experience.
Suhas Tambe,
I am afraid this constant mantra of Yoga not being a religion is getting tired and it simply does not fit reality. How can you say Yoga is not a religion when the goal of Yoga is to connect to the supreme soul(aka god) it involves moral training(yama and niyama) and to adhere to a religious lifestyle where one meditates regularly and preferably eats a vegetarian diet. It involves accepting all kinds of doctrines such as the existence of the soul, god, prana, kundalini, koshas, lokas, karma, reincarnation. It involves reading scriptures such as the Yogasutras, Bhagvad Gita, Upanishads, Shiva Samhita.
It is absolutely clear Yoga is a religion - the Hindu religion. And to say it is not a religion is basically being disingenious to other religions. If you say to a Christian, “You can do Yoga, because Yoga is not a religion” Sooner or later the Christian will be exposed to reincarnation, chanting mantras such as OM, doing meditation, using Sanskrit, Hindu doctrines and Hindu scriptures. Any discerning Christian will then know that they have been deceived into accepting another religion.
It is a big deception to say Yoga is not a religion. It clearly is.
Dear Surya Deva,
In another thread, you have said
“I sometimes see a reflection of myself in Swami Vivekananda. Atheist, scientific, demanding proof for all assertions and gradually moving into spirituality”
Let us wait for your spiritual progress. This conflict ‘Yoga a religion?’ will get resolved only in your own self. That is the Yoga path.
This is a weasel response Suhas. I do not have to wait to get some kind of enlightenment in order to understand whether Yoga is a religion or not. It can be ascertained whether Yoga is a religion or not from the characteristics of Yoga and whether it meets the characteristics of a religion.
Let us ask the following questions
Does Yoga involve any kind of doctrine which determines what is moral? Yes
Does Yoga involve a belief in deity, supreme being or god? Yes
Does Yoga involve any kind of scriptures? Yes
Does Yoga have holy men and women? Yes
Does Yoga have doctrines which teach about supernatural entites? Yes
Does Yoga define a purpose of life? Yes
Does Yoga prescribe methods or rituals for spiritual purposes? Yes
Does Yoga prescribe lifestyles that one must adhere to? Yes
Clearly then Yoga is a religion.
Can a Christian be a yogi?
I suppose it really depends upon how we define Christianity.
I have heard of people who don’t believe in Christ and call themselves Christians. I have heard on this board of people who instead of believing that Christ came to save the soul from Hell, that we are reborn over and over until we get it right. I have heard of people who call themselves Christians, but who make up their own rules regarding sexual morality, and are totally fine with fornication, homosexual unions, and adultery.
From my perspective, I don’t think that yoga in its entirety can be practiced by Christians, though I’m not 100% certain about that yet. I am clear that a Christian can do the physical exercises, though he must proceed with caution.
But the way to fix this is to simply say that Yoga IS Chrisianity.
Then EVERYONE who practices yoga is a Christian.
9 Ha Thomas…that would fix it for a Christian indeed!)
Hi Everyone it was my intention to put Can a Christian be a Hindu, I put the smiley because I dont understand how anyone can say it isn’t and the smiley was to not want to offend anyone.
But I am confused by this issue…By Surya and Suhas…and then I have my own limited opinion based on my limited understanding of the facts I have READ, ABOUT YOGA and then theres the thing things I have personally noted that are nothing to do with reading.
I did notice that no one offered a response to my point I made about how the inner Guru appears to appear in physical (in that you can see him) form…Despite my knowledge of Christianity at my schooling and at Church, when I practiced for a long time with the Ajna Chakra, EVENTUALLY, I was presented with a Buddha, in form, a bald Buddha in monks attire in Lotus position! BUT I was told recently by a Chinese Buddhist, his account was a Chinese, pony tailed Buddha, in same Lotus position and monks attire…(he told me without me telling him anything)
So I think this matters to this discussion and as I’ve said…no one seems to want to address it.
My point being that the inner Guru seems to present himself in a format from your lineage, therefore maybe a Christian will have a more Christian experience if their lineage is wholly protestant or Catholic etc etc.
Any offers?
Sd,
Every single response from you is contentious. I look at your opening sentence and if it is contentious in nature, I just skip right over it. I would advise others to do so. I know I’ve been much happier. It would serve you well to listen to those like Suhas who have an open mind.
Back to the non-religious forums for me!
Calling Suhas a Weasel Surya is rude…Suhas [B]trys [/B]to be considerate of all of us, even yourself Surya. If thats being a Weasel then so
am I. Dont be mean in words its a debate
[QUOTE=thomas;40909]I’ve heard some call Jesus a yogi.
[/QUOTE]
I have even read a book by Yogananda: Yoga of Jesus.
Can you outline what it says Oak333
[QUOTE=kareng;41042]Calling Suhas a Weasel Surya is rude…Suhas [B]trys [/B]to be considerate of all of us, even yourself Surya. If thats being a Weasel then so
am I. Dont be mean in words its a debate[/QUOTE]
He didn’t call him a weasel. He said it was a “weasel response,” meaning he felt he was avoiding the issue or weasling out of it.
I’m beginning to lean in the direction of agreeing with SD about yoga and religion, though I disagree that parts cannot be taken out, specifially the asanas, and be religion neutral.
Thomas isn’t that the same…the words were written by him.
Mind you I know they are adults and I perhaps am being a little protective…you’ll fnd me do that with anyone including Surya when I see something a little strong. Perhaps I should mind my own business, I will try but cant promise.
As I said, I would like to understand why Surya and Suhas are disagreeing, I have always thought from reading that Yoga is Hindu in origins and therefore is Hindu.
But I dont discount what Suhas is saying so I want it explained if possible?