I really have a very unfavourable opinion of the Abrahamic religions now. I never gave them to much thought, but now having looked closely at what the bible says, I am left with a very poor taste in my mouth. While the OT is obviously full of unmitigated evil where god is on a murderous rampage, the NT seems to be a religion which glorifies poverty, weakness, naivity and victimhood.
This religion is too primitive for me. I am going to stay away from further association with these religions.
Jesus was an actual human being. The lowly scoundrels are still kicking, punching, spitting, and hammering nails through his limbs. If I were you, I’d take Scales advice.
That poor taste in your mouth is from all the excrement coming out of it.
Warning issues for personal attacks per the forum rules at 2:01 central on 08/27/10 - admin edit
Personal attacks are not going to refute the point I am making. How can a man that gets kicked, punched, spitted at and then hammered to a cross with his nails through his limbs and then cries for his father, be the son of god? Why would god have such a weakling son?
I think enough is enough! With comments like above Surya it’s no wonder people are getting personal warnings. Where is your empathy and compassion? When you make comments like above don’t you realize it hurts people? I fear not.
Namaste, in my personal estimation the comment I made above is a valid point and question. I do not believe it is in breach of any forum regulations. If it is, I believe David will inform me.
If comments on the internet forums hurt people they probably need to build a thicker skin. As they are going to face far more worse comments in real life.
Didn’t say it was a breach of forum regulations. I do think it was hurtful and disrespectful toward christians. I think a mature, yoga-like thing to do would be to apologize for offending them.
My opinion…
My responses to Surya Deva’s outrageous hate speech have been quite restrained. At this point, I think I need to seriously consider whether I will continue to participate in this forum.
I do not believe political correctness and not offending people is one of Yoga’s Yamas.
However, speaking the truth - Satya - is definitely one of the Yamas. The point I am making is what I honestly think and Yoga says your actions and speech should match what you think. That is what I am doing.
Do you want me to not say what I think?
[QUOTE=Asuri;36303]My responses to Surya Deva’s outrageous hate speech have been quite restrained. At this point, I think I need to seriously consider whether I will continue to participate in this forum.[/QUOTE]
Namaste,
There is a very simple solution you do not have to leave the forum, you can just put me on ignore and pretend I have left the forum.
I have not put anybody on ignore as of yet because I strongly believe in the right to free speech and free thought. You are entitled to say anything you like to me, you may even criticize my religion with the same vigour as I criticise yours, I will welcome it openly and argue with you to the end. In the end, whatever I say to you, trust me my friend, even more disturbing things will lurk in your own mind. You should be brave enough to face all things.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;36306]Namaste,
There is a very simple solution you do not have to leave the forum, you can just put me on ignore and pretend I have left the forum.
I have not put anybody on ignore as of yet because I strongly believe in the right to free speech and free thought. You are entitled to say anything you like to me, you may even criticize my religion with the same vigour as I criticise yours, I will welcome it openly and argue with you to the end. In the end, whatever I say to you, trust me my friend, even more disturbing things will lurk in your own mind. You should be brave enough to face all things.[/QUOTE]
Everyone has the right to free speech you are correct. With that right comes responsibilities. Words hurt. You have been reckless with your speech and caused hurt.
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;36308]Everyone has the right to free speech you are correct. With that right comes responsibilities. Words hurt. You have been reckless with your speech and caused hurt.[/QUOTE]
I cannot control how you respond to my words. If everybody measured what they can or can’t say by how others would respond to it, we would not have a society of free speech. We are very fortunate we are living in a time where free speech is allowed, for there was one time where you would be crucified for saying something that hurt people, such as our very own Jesus.
I think David must be commended very highly for his allowance of free speech on this forum. I think he is truly practicing the Yoga ethic.
When you sit to meditate all kinds of thoughts, good, bad and ugly will rise up in your mind. If you react to these thoughts you are no longer meditating. Similarly, in the world there are good, bad and ugly things. This is what really tests your Yoga. If you react so painfully to something so trivial on an internet forum, how are you going to deal with what life has to throw at you?
I suggest you read Nietzche, particularly his work, “Antichrist” His criticisms of Christianity are much more harsh, vitriolic and hateful than anything I have said so far. I am polite in comparison. Yet, despite this, he is one of most widely read philosophers of the 20th century.
What you say is absolutely true. On the other end of the spectrum, we’re all practicing to get to the point where we aren’t so affected by words of others. And frankly, I don’t know if there IS such a place as the couple realized people I know are very hurt, they’re just not afraid to keep baring their hearts. It’s more of a, “People are going to hurt you on the internet and boy are they going to hurt you in real life too. It sucks.”
I know I react and hurt people here. It sucks that my emotions get the better of me because I sincerely want to be nice to people. And I don’t think for a second that the people who have hurt me are intentionally malicious either. But the fact is, we’re hurting each other.
I really don’t have any words of wisdom because I don’t have any of this figured out myself. What I do know is that, “You need to have thicker skin” does not absolve you of your share in this relationship of words.
Yeah, I’m as confused as anyone on all this. 
And I’m as tired as everyone of all the hurt going around whether it’s from me, at me, or between others.
My suggestion would be to follow Ghandi’s example. Just don’t participate in threads where the poster appears to want to bring out the worse in you. If no one engages, then the poster may get bored and we can return to sharing real experiences.
When I hurt people on this forum, it was because I was hurt, so one could say, I hit back those who hit me. I think in a way Surya Deva does the same, but it’s more abstract. He identifies strongly with his heritage and his people and his history and his religion, all of which have been mistreated. By for example Muslims and Christians. Now he pays “them” back. The problem in this case I see in the fact, that it’s not the people here on this forum commited any of those crimes. Just some happen to be Christians. So they get hit for what other people did. Who probably weren’t even actual Christians. So when he makes clear that he sees Christians as stupid and violent and disrespectful, he accuses Christians around here of that. Which is not true. Then, though, some of them or just bystanders, who do not tolerate such violence, hit back. A vicious circle, so forgiveness should be a great idea.
2 cents, don’t stone me! 
Thanks Flex. Wise words. I just can’t help but feel sad for people on the receiving end. Oh well, I guess ignore or leave. I don’t know…
I think that’s a great idea. That’s why I wanted to close this thread but knew I’d catch even more flak that way. Heheh. Can’t win 
But yes, what you speak of makes sense. I wonder if that’s easier in real life or on an internet forum?
I really don’t have any words of wisdom because I don’t have any of this figured out myself. What I do know is that, “You need to have thicker skin” does not absolve you of your share in this relationship of words.
Yes, of course I still have to speak within certain remits, such as obeying forum laws, but not to the extent that I censor valid points I want to make.
There have been some philosophers who have highlighted the criticism I made above about Christianity. Some of these philosophers known as death of god theologians, have said that Christianity is a religion of a dead god. In the mythos of this religion god incarnates on Earth and then the human being kills it. Jesus nailed on the crucifix is the enduring icon that represents Christianity, and a radical message about god, and that is man is greater than god. Indeed, this is exactly what we see in Christianity when Jesus’s religion is taken over by men, such as Paul and Popes who changed the rules as they saw fit. The irony is, Christianity ends up being not a religion of Jesus, but a religion of powerful men. Neitzche’s proclamation, “God is dead” was basically the unspoken truth of the radical atheism that Christianity contained.
You would be surprised to know some people at the top levels of power in Christianity don’t believe the myth of Christianity.
Nor would I want you to.
What I’m personally working on is how to express my passion, make my points (sometimes without compromise), and at the same time be compassionate and understanding of others. As I grow wiser, hopefully I’ll improve. It’s an art of the wise, for sure.
[QUOTE=David;36317]I wonder if that’s easier in real life or on an internet forum? :)[/QUOTE]
Tough either way, I think.