Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#157

Yes, such things become possible, there is no doubt about it. The way that the average person functions is just scratching the surface of the potentialities of a human being. But even this has it’s limits. Try as one may, one is never going to grow a third head - even if one awakens capabilities which may appear to be super-human. If one has become identified with the ego one is naturally going to think that man can have absolute control over nature - that is part of one’s ego trip. And to have absolute control is impossible, because control itself means boundaries, it means limitations.

Yoga is very clear that all of prakriti comes under one control. We can control prakriti, because we are outside of prakriti watching her dance :wink: She obeys us. She is only there for us says Patanjali :wink:

It should be understood that control, in the very nature of things, means restriction.

Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.

Everything in nature is such, that it is impossible for anything to function as a separate entity, everything is interconnected in a complex web of cause and effect. It is for this reason too - that it is impossible for man to have absolute control.

All of prakriti is connected in a web of complex cause and effect. This is why I use the word mind-body system and mind-body continuum. This is all just a web of cause and effect caused by the gunas . However, we are outside of prakriti and causality. We are free beings. We can make prakriti dance to our tunes :wink:

That is nice that he has learned how to perform that trick, which any fool can perform with enough training. Like this, there are many people who can perform all kinds of feats, both physical and mental. Some people can walk on a tight rope for hours upon hours. Amongst several shao-lin monks, they are capable of being attacked by swords without penetration of the skin. Some yogis can swallow razor blades without damaging of the internal organs, others can remain buried alive for days, weeks, months, or years. Another well known yogi had managed to remain underwater for several days at a stretch, and it was a public display of demonstration of such an ability.

Can you do any tricks? Care to be submitted to independent trials where we will bury you for 7 days :wink:

But these do not mean anything at all as far as one’s insight and spiritual expansion is concerned, they are just superficial.

Right, but that was not the point. The point was to show the powers of our consciousness over the mind-matter continuum(prakriti). Not only can we control her, we can make her dance to our tunes. The more refined your consciousness the more powers you have over her. Those yogis who can be buried for months, days and years can do so because they have power over their body. Prahlad Jani has powers over prana. He claims he can extract the prana from any source from the sun, rocks to air.

#158

“Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.”

What is it that you are calling us ?

“We are free beings.”

To be a being is itself a limitation. One may be just painting portraits in one’s own image.

“We can make prakriti dance to our tunes”

Then you must be the dancer and the dance. And if there happens to be no dancing anywhere, then too you are that.

“Can you do any tricks?”

If one is interested in seeing tricks, one should go to a circus.

“The point was to show the powers of our consciousness over the mind-matter continuum”

It is not a matter of this being over that. What one is calling “divine” is not separate from the mind and body, nor is the original nature of existence separate from it’s multiple forms. That would be like trying to separate water from ice. So there is no question of these divisions, which are just the outcome of seeing things through the lenses of the intellect.

“The more refined your consciousness the more powers you have over her.”

The fellow is supported and nourished by the Earth and yet still he wants to put his flag on it.

“Those yogis who can be buried for months, days and years can do so because they have power over their body.”

More flags.

#159

“Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.”

What is it that you are calling us ?

Various terms can be used: souls, purushas, consciousness units, jivatmans, monads, witnesses, observers, knowers.

Basically us the conscious beings(purushas) that interact with this world(prakriti) Samkhya darshana is all based on knowing the difference between us and prakriti. Basically prakriti is possessed of quality of the gunas, meaning that she changes, transforms, moves, has polarities. Purusha is only possessed one quality: seeing/awareness/knowing. Moving is not our quality, because moving is what our body does. I never move. It is only my body that moves. I simply witness it moving.

It is not a matter of this being over that. What one is calling “divine” is not separate from the mind and body, nor is the original nature of existence separate from it’s multiple forms.

We are clearly outside of nature. Why? Because we can go against nature. Thus proving our independence. We have free will and choice. Nature doesn’t. We are here to tame nature. We do so through understanding how she works and then using our will to tame her. Similarly, we can tame the mind by understanding how it works. If this was not true there would be no science, technology. No Yoga :wink:

Discernment is understanding the essential differences between us and nature, matter and consciousness, spirit and non-spirit. If you mistake the rope for the snake, the mirage for the oasis then you are simply ignorant. When we understand we are different to nature, that is when we realise though we maybe using this body, we are not in fact this body or inside this body. We are simply watching it. We can make nature dance to our tunes.

Then you must be the dancer and the dance. And if there happens to be no dancing anywhere, then too you are that.

Nope, the dancer is the body and the dance is the activity of the body. I am just the one watching them.

#160

[B]Was not aware until now Shri Mataji passed away only in Feb 2011. You never mentioned this fact once Seeker33? Why? [/B]

Who will take over as head of the movement now?

Interestingly, on the official site no mention is made of her passing either : http://www.sahajayoga.org/shrimataji/

Always a blow to any Cult when the Guru dies. It was a huge blow to Scientology until the cover story came - of course L. Ron Hubbard had simply discared his body and was continuing his work in the spirit realm! L. Ron was overweight too and chain smoked.

#161

Oh she passed away? What the great divine mother, comforter, incarnation of Jesus, Krishna and Buddha combined passed away? And most of the world did not notice, does not care and never heard of her?

I wonder what happens to souls like this.

#162

“So this happening that we are afraid of death is absolutely absurd for Sahaja Yogis. What is there to think even about your death. There is nothing like death for you because you have got eternal life.”

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

“So you must know your position as eternal beings ? what is your work; what is your idea; what you have to do. So one has to get rid of this idea of death because death does not exist for you ? It is finished… your spirit is free.”

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

#163

The whole issue got centered around one cult? Why don’t we discuss about others too? :frowning: We are getting clogged with SY only :slight_smile:

We are not getting more first hand information about other cults, who are minting money like anything.

#164

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56951]The whole issue got centered around one cult? Why don’t we discuss about others too? :frowning: We are getting clogged with SY only :slight_smile:

We are not getting more first hand information about other cults, who are minting money like anything.[/QUOTE]

Indeed these money minded cults are spawning most of the new age namesake yogis by giving them media coverage.

#165

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56951]The whole issue got centered around one cult? Why don’t we discuss about others too? :frowning: We are getting clogged with SY only :slight_smile:

We are not getting more first hand information about other cults, who are minting money like anything.[/QUOTE]

That is not true, we are also discussing Amir’s cult :wink:

Amir’s cult is yet to form, but hes making efforts in that direction. Basically if you want to learn about the opposite of what Yoga teaches, go to him :wink:

#166
#167

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56944]Oh she passed away? What the great divine mother, comforter, incarnation of Jesus, Krishna and Buddha combined passed away? And most of the world did not notice, does not care and never heard of her?
I wonder what happens to souls like this.[/QUOTE][B]Mark 8:33
King James Bible
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.[/B]

How many people knew about Jesus during his lifetime?

#168

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56952]Indeed these money minded cults are spawning most of the new age namesake yogis by giving them media coverage.[/QUOTE]I don?t want anything from you.

#169

Seeker,

Seriously are you really that naive and gullible? Come on! Many Cults like Scientology or TM - Transcendental Meditation are very upfront about asking for money i.e. courses are expensive and you keep paying lots. Others like Brahma Kumaris and Sahaja Yoga are not as upfront, even saying courses are free but accepting donations.

[B]The important point - Cults like Brahma Kumaris and Sahaja Yoga did not have the huge wealth they have now when they started off, both BK & SY own very expensive properties Worldwide (for SY many in Shri Mataji’s name) totalling a value of multi millions in money. [/B] Where did all this huge wealth come from??? Shri Mataji I don’t want your money, courses are free , etc yet manages to build up a huge fortune!

You are very naive and gullible indeed if you can’t see through such ploys and using basic reverse psychology not asking for money directly doesn’t mean you won’t get it, in a Cult quite the opposite actually. Followers give donations in money, it’s free but feel obligated to give donation, others even donate property, etc - all for the good cause of furthering the movement.

Lo and behold overtime the Cult has amassed a multi million fortune in property, investments, and actual money - Brahma Kumaris is hugely wealthy, just look at some of the properties they have & there is no way in it’s humble beginnings it could have afforded such places. http://bkwsuwatch.com/deception-disguises-and-fronts/financial-deception/

#170

Sahaja yoga has these type of projects:
Center For Destitute Women
International Health Centre
International Sahaja Public School

#171

Seeker 33,

See my previous post.

Yes Sahaja Yoga has charitable projects, so what? As does Scientology it has a mass of fronts - charitable projects, religious freedom, against psychiatry, etc. The Moonies (Unification Church) has charitable projects. Sathya Sai Baba has charitable and education projects, incl. hospitals (amazing for someone omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent he still needs hospitals for people & his followers).

They all have charitable projects, or charitable status in countries to avoid tax but they are still making millions!!! The charitable projects they could fund with their pocket change.

#172

Mind Ninja, you are arguing a lost cause. Seeker is in too deep in SY, to come out of it. He cannot be reasoned with. He does not care about any evidence exposing SY, of lies or contradictions in SY. This is why I said he was a dying soul. You have to understand for 20 years Seeker has built this delusion up. It is not going to crumble with some strangers posting on the internet. You also have to understand the political and emotional angle. Seeker has hundreds, if not thousands of friends with SY and he associated them with it. No doubt, he’s had many positive experiences in 20 years, which he also associates with SY. SY has told him from the start he is self-realised, special, spiritual, a great soul with a great mission and this has built up his ego.

Long time cult members rarely ever leave based on outside advice. A possibility comes when a jolt comes from inside, such as witnessing abuse or getting abused, malconduct etc

Regarding the money issue. It is true SY offers its classes for free. But it is also true that after a while you become obligated to contribute towards the costs of hiring out rooms etc and contributing to the costs of the extravangt puja ceremonies held every month, where they worship Shri Mataji using ritual and prayer. In all these cults, a cult member is like an asset and thus their income and property also becomes a part of the cult. If something needs being done and requires capital, they will ask cult members to contribute based on their capacity to. This is why these cults become so rich. Your status in the cult and position in the hierarchy is usually based on how rich and powerful you are.

Now that Shri Mataji has passed away, it is clear this has shaken SY up. There cannot be a successor of the second coming of Jesus/Buddha/Krishna that she announced herself to be. She left without registering a blip in the world. This attests to how small her cult was. With nobody left in charge, there will be now schisms and break ups in the organization and it will slowly die out.

I think we have talked enough about SY now. Lets move on. We have served the purpose by exposing it. 99% of the people reading this thread will want nothing to do with SY, and will surely warn any family and friends that get involved.

#173
#174

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56989]I think we have talked enough about SY now. Lets move on. We have served the purpose by exposing it. 99% of the people reading this thread will want nothing to do with SY, and will surely warn any family and friends that get involved.[/QUOTE]So far is not clear why you are not satisfied with SY. It is very easy to blame the system but very difficult to find the problem with yourself.
If you think that the system of Sahaja yoga is wrong, please clarify.

#175

[QUOTE=Seeker33;56991]So far is not clear why you are not satisfied with SY. It is very easy to blame the system but very difficult to find the problem with yourself.
If you think that the system of Sahaja yoga is wrong, please clarify.
[/QUOTE]

I will make it very clear to you. I don't think you are a rational person, I don't think you can be reasoned with. I don't think your intellect is working. I do think you are a brainwashed cult member and I do think you are a dying soul. And I do think you will carry this onto your future life.

With that clear here are the reasons already given in this this thread for why I reject your cult

  1. You're a personality worship cult. You falsely advertise SY as yoga, but actually it is just a front for what really is the worship of your founder and leader. New members are told to meditate with her picture and keep their hands open to receive her vibrations, but the claim that she claims to be the divine mother and and the the second coming of Jesus/Buddha/Krishna/Mohamemd is withheld. New members are not told when they are saying, "Divine mother, forgive me" they are making a prayer to her. They are told that simply being in her presence awakens the kundalini, and new members are excited by the prospects of one day meeting her - what they do not know is that they will have to fall at her feet and kiss them. After a few months, they invite you to the monthly puja ceremonies where the worship of her intensifies. Here fire ceremonies(Yagya) are done in the name of her, mantras are chanted in the names of her, and her pictures are worshipped. Therefore, SY is nothing more than Shriti Mataji worship.

  2. Your leader is a fraud. She is the amongst the worst representations of health, spirituality, intelligence, enlightenment. She is unheathily obsese because of her expensive and extravagant tastes in food, and has a bad flatluence problem. Her diction is poor and littered with errr's. She is highly arrogant and expects her disciples to serve her in gold plated china wear. She makes false claims that she went on a tour of gurus and Osho recognised her as the divine mother, when Osho himself has said she was his disciple for 10 years, and reported to him how she was going to start her own cult after realising how easy it was to fool people. She has herself worshipped wearing a crown, and her feet annointed and disciples have pictures of her feet in their home. She claims to have great spiritual powers, but has avoided all independent scientific tests.

  3. Your method is bunk. You refuse to have your method tested by an independent scientist. You claim to be treating people by diagnosing which of their chakras are acting up based on the vibration you are feeling on your fingers, but each SY worker gives a different diagnosis. You spread propoganda that this method is a lost science alluded to in every religious text, and then twist the scriptures of various religion to pretend it is there.

  4. Your meditation is bunk and your claims about Kundalini are bunk. You mediatate on the Sahasara chakra which Yoga traditions have said is dangerous to meditate on. You claim a mundane feeling of a cool breeze is the symptom of Kundalini awakening. Everybody coming to SY Yoga the first day claims to feels it on the first day and are told it is there. The expert in Kundalini research, such as Gopi Krishna who meditated on the Sahasara chakra and had a premature awakening that almost destroyed him, give very clear details of the symptoms of a kundalini awakening. They are dramatic and anybody who has an awakened kundalini experiences a total metamorphosis. These cases are well documented and been investigated by psychologists like Carl Jung.

  5. You use your false method of vibrations checking to push organizational dogmas. You claim the Dalai Llama is an evil tantrik because you have "checked the vibrations" but rather because Shri Mata ji beleives it. You claim the Nobel prize people are evil because you have "checked the vibrations" when in actuality it was because they did not award Shri Mata Ji the nobel peace prize, that Sahaja members tried to get her nominated her, that suddenly they have become evil.

  6. You have banishing rituals for members who leave. First of all, you interrograte members who want to leave and try to get other members to talk them out of it(happened to 3 of my friends) You tell them that evil will befall them if they leave. If they leave, you conduct a banishing ritual and tell everybody they have become demonic.

In short these are the reasons that I reject your SY. In fact these are the reasons that 99% of people reading this thread will never get involved in SY. You are a dangerous cult of unthinking brainwashed sheep.

This will be my last post on SY.

#176

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56993]1) ... New members are told to meditate with her picture and keep their hands open to receive her vibrations, [/QUOTE]The same thing was done from Buddha disciples:

Dhammapada
Chapter XXI : Miscellaneous
296. The disciples of Gotama (Buddha) are always well awake, and their
thoughts day and night are always set on Buddha.

Do you know why?