Of course when we go to Far Eastern cultures like Japan and China, Buddhism takes on a more violent character. This can be explained as the merging of a pacifist Buddhism with the more violent warrior culture of Japan and China. In my example I am concentrating more on Indian Buddhism.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57034]Because in 1970 Shri Mataji has opened Sahasrara chakra at Collective level and SHE holds the key.
http://youtu.be/RpNYZAAQ0fM[/QUOTE]
Corrcection - She [B]HELD[/B] the key , Shri Mataji passed away a little over a month ago.
Sahaja Yoga was already a very small movement with small amount of followers, anyone with free will and common sense and who was not gullible or naive stayed well clear of it - anyone looking into it objectively saw it was a Cult, just as anyone looking objectively into the Moonies (Unification Church) or Scientology would clearly see them as Cults and something to avoid. We will see how long Sahaja Yoga lasts without the Guru.
[B]‘There is no smoke without fire’ as they say, Cults like Scientology, Moonies, Sahaja Yoga, etc have such terrible reputations and are constantly surrounded by negative reports for a reason! [/B]
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57040]Can you tell me any other water other than the water you are giving me? I am allergic to your water :).[/QUOTE]Dear one. You have wrong identification that “I am allergic to your water”. May be Sahaja Water is allergic to you. Who is the doer?
Prakriteh kriyamaanaani gunaih karmaani sarvashah;
Ahamkaaravimoodhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate.
27. All actions are wrought in all cases by the qualities of Nature only. He whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: “I am the doer”.
[QUOTE=MindNinja;57052]Corrcection - She [B]HELD[/B] the key , Shri Mataji passed away a little over a month ago.
Sahaja Yoga was already a very small movement with small amount of followers, anyone with free will and common sense and who was not gullible or naive stayed well clear of it…[/QUOTE]We will see buddy. Just watch.
[B]Incarnations are working from their Viraat level. [/B]
Baba Ramdev is not enlightened, but he is a dharmic person and a fine Yoga teacher of contemporary times. He has been responsible for reviving the education of Yoga, Pranamaya, dharna, Ayurveda and dharma in general in India today and making it respectable again, because of him millions of Indians practice yoga today. His Yoga camps are free, they are televised on the Hindu spiritual channel Aastha and Patanjali Yoga is being taught for free or for very cheap prices(?1-2) in the UK and you are getting proper yoga. It has become widely respected in the Indian community here, even the Sikh community. Baba Ramdev has also campaigned against corruption, terrorism, capitalism, black money and other such blights on Indian society and millions of Indians are now aware of them and taking some action against them. Thus Baba Ramdev’s contributions to India today are massive. God bless the man.
My only criticism of Baba Ramdev is not to speak too much. He speaks fast, he speaks loud, he speaks a lot and he has an opinion on everything. This is why I know hes not enlightened, but an ordinary person like we are. He is a fine Yoga teacher though and has started a huge Yoga revolution in India. I would never accept him as my teacher, because I am looking for enlightened people.
Regarding Seekers claim that ONLY SY is the right way and method. This is to be expected, as all bad cults claim exclusivity. The first thing you are taught when you go to your first few SY sessions is to stay away from others, every other way and method is condemned. This caused quite a dilemma for me and my friends when we went, because we were practicing other methods and traditions as well - but we were flat out told that we MUST only practice SY and nothing else. The reason they gave for this was that in order to give SY a fair trial and see if it works or not we should spend a few months practicing only it and nothing else. This sounded semi-reasonable to me, but the truth is, it is a ploy to get you to practice only ways their and method forever.
SY denounces every other tradition very strongly. One of the SY leaders was telling us a story of how we met somebody and was getting on very well with them, but then they told him they were part of a cult which was on the SY denounce list, he then said he vomitted and immediately got away from him. He reported to us he had felt the negative vibrations which caused him to vomit. I sat there thinking, “You did not feel any vibrations when you first met him and were talking to him, you only felt them when he told you he was part of a cult you are told is evil” I realised then more strongly I was dealing with highly extremist and fundamentalist people. I think this was roughly the time period when we left.
A cult member becomes a dependent of the cult for all information and methods, so they shut themselves off from all information and methods outside the cult. As Seeker has, though he quotes the Yoga Sutras, he only quotes the lines that SY uses for their ends, but has not read the whole text. Had he read the whole text, he would know that YS is an entire manuel and training guide to how to get to the goal of Yoga. It gives the method, it even gives the reader warnings of the obstacles and pitfalls on the way and tips. In fact, you don’t need anything other than the Yogasutras to be honest to start your sadhana. Nor is he aware of the traditions going on for centuries and millenias of Kriya Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga that have been getting people to the goal of Yoga. There are loads of methods out there to get to the goal, even Patanajli admits there are loads of ways. The only condition you need to satisfy is whatever method you use it should reduce the vrittis in your mind and produce a one-pointed mind. If your method does that, Patanjali would have endorsed it.
The method of SY Yoga is of course highly dubious as we have discussed already. The first part of it consists of making an invisible shield with hand movements around you, then moving your hands up your spine while spinnning them around each other and then tying a knot above your head, 3 times to represent ida, pingala and sushmana. They claim this creates a protective shield around you and prepares your energy channels for the work to be done. Then a guided meditation is done. You move up each chakra and state an affirmation that is related with the chakra(Such as “Mother, forgive me”) It ends up with the crown chakra, where you are suppose to put your attention just a little outside of your head. Then the healing work begins where each SY worker will go around the room working on different individuals. This is done by going around each subject, and then based on the subjective feelings of the worker of which of their fingers is feeling a “vibration” then they look at the SY diagram which tells us each finger is linked a chakra and diagnose which chakra is acting up. Then, the worker spins their hand behind the chakra to activate the chakra again. Then they continue to work on you a bit more finding other chakras which are acting up based on their subjective sensations in their fingers.
This is it. This is the SY practice. You don’t find this practice anywhere else in the Yogic tradition because it is new-age stuff. Anybody who has read a typical new-age book would have read about Chakra meditation, moving up each chakra and stating affirmations and visualizing colours. Making aura shields by making gestures or thinking it into existence is another new-age practice mentioned in new-age books. Trying to heal chakras by making hand gestures around somebody - again is new age garbage.
Shri Mata ji would have picked up chakra meditation at the Osho ashram, where it is taught.
The closest we do find in the Yoga tradition to this practice is Kriya Yoga, but here as you move up each chakra you put your awareness into the chakra very deeply and penetrate it. There are also practices where you chant OM into each chakra. In Laya yoga there is a bija mantra we can chant which works on each chakra.
Other practices SY do are taken from the magical tradition of Hinduism. The tradition of sleeping with a lemon or putting a lemon outside of your house, which you will find many Hindus do, is to ward of negative energy. Another practice is salt water baths for your feet to take away negative energy in your energy body(discard the water in the toilet in the morning) Agnihotra or homa, or fire sacrifices where offerings of food are given into a sacred fire are used to purify the air.
It is not that these practices do not work, because they do to an extent, but they are not original SY practices. They are taken from various sources, twisted, altered, reinterpreted that they lose their original potency, and the SY cult members end up getting sold cheap and substandard Yoga/spirituality - which they then adopt for life.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57068]Regarding Seekers claim that ONLY SY is the right way and method. This is to be expected, as all bad cults claim exclusivity. The first thing you are taught when you go to your first few SY sessions is to stay away from others, every other way and method is condemned. [/QUOTE]Dear, please show me some other method that can accelerate my spiritual growth faster than SY and I am ready to leave SY.
So far there is nothing better than SY.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57068]Shri Mata ji would have picked up chakra meditation at the Osho ashram, where it is taught.[/QUOTE]Why Shri Mataji’s photo? Danger of Osho.
[quote=surya deva;57066]baba ramdev is not enlightened, but he is a dharmic person and a fine yoga teacher of contemporary times. He has been responsible for reviving the education of yoga, pranamaya, dharna, ayurveda and dharma in general in india today and making it respectable again, because of him millions of indians practice yoga today. His yoga camps are free, they are televised on the hindu spiritual channel aastha and patanjali yoga is being taught for free or for very cheap prices(?1-2) in the uk and you are getting proper yoga. It has become widely respected in the indian community here, even the sikh community. Baba ramdev has also campaigned against corruption, terrorism, capitalism, black money and other such blights on indian society and millions of indians are now aware of them and taking some action against them. Thus baba ramdev’s contributions to india today are massive. God bless the man.
My only criticism of baba ramdev is not to speak too much. He speaks fast, he speaks loud, he speaks a lot and he has an opinion on everything. This is why i know hes not enlightened, but an ordinary person like we are. He is a fine yoga teacher though and has started a huge yoga revolution in india. I would never accept him as my teacher, because i am looking for enlightened people.[/quote]
agreed!
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57073]Dear, please show me some other method that can accelerate my spiritual growth faster than SY and I am ready to leave SY.
So far there is nothing better than SY.[/QUOTE]
I will always recommend the "Kriya" Yoga as it's called from the lineage of
Babaji > Shyamacharan > Yukestwar > Yogananda
and that one only. I.e. The Self Realization Fellowship.
I would not accept any other Kriya lineage. As there is likely to be some corruption that creeps into the teachings the further you get down the line from the original teachers.
Plus, there are many other "kriya yoga outfits" who claim association with the above lineage, and their claims are dubious at best. Many times their association with the above lineage is simply a marketing tactic...
I think it was credited to Jesus in the N.T. who said - "you will know a master by their fruit."
Mukunda was hand picked to spread the system in the west.
It is simple and highly effective.
Surya Deva, I appreciate much the indebt insight into your personal experiences.
[QUOTE=The Scales;57083]I will always recommend the “Kriya” Yoga as it’s called from the lineage of
Babaji > Shyamacharan > Yukestwar > Yogananda
[/QUOTE]Did you receive your Kundalini awakening by Kriya yoga?
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57085]Did you receive your Kundalini awakening by Kriya yoga?[/QUOTE]
It has been said that this awakening can occur through shaktipat.
I do not know about that.
I do know that the ‘serpent’ can be awakened by yogic endeavor.
I. E through your own effort once properly instructed.
To me “kriya yoga” means the “essentials” In that the techniques or ‘practices’ which compose the system are one of the most effective and simple means that the modern seeker can utilize to “take matters into their own hands” - so to speak.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56307]Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul’s thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.
What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.
I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.
What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.
Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.
I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!
I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, “God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god” It is basically a giant book of odes to god.
I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.
Finally, in terms of “secular Yoga” I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, “Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas”, “Yoga Nidra”, “Sure ways to self-realization” are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.[/QUOTE]
Some of the most profound teachings are in the Tao te Ching. As a matter of fact, a lot of times I feel that Taoism and Sanatana Dharma share a common ancestry. Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu are the most profound sages you can study…and the entire philosophy of Taoism is very very similar to Vedanta (especially Advaita Vedanta). They are mystical in nature like the Upanishads and just reading them will awaken prajna in many a seeker.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;57073]Dear, please show me some other method that can accelerate my spiritual growth faster than SY and I am ready to leave SY.
So far there is nothing better than SY.[/QUOTE]
What other ways have you tried ?
“They are mystical in nature like the Upanishads and just reading them will awaken prajna in many a seeker.”
It can happen, but it is very rare. And if it happens, it is less because of the scripture itself, and more because of your inner state which is prepared for just about any excuse for prajna to arise.
[QUOTE=charliedharma;57119]What other ways have you tried ?[/QUOTE]Hatha.
Surya,
“The mind is both the enslaver and the liberator”
I can agree with this, but for a totally different reason. Because without mind, to come to one’s awakening is impossible - the mind is like a bridge which can be used or which can stand as a barrier. It is the case with any instrument, not just the mind. Any instrument can be used in a thousand and one differnet ways depending on the hands which are using them. This is why in the yogic sciences, there have been usually two different approaches towards samadhi. Either you can cut off the stream of the senses and bring the mind into stillness and come to samadhi, or you can stimulate the mind and the senses and come to samadhi. Stimulation of the senses can be used as a skillful means, the same thing which in other approaches they have been trying to avoid. That is why there have been several tantric maxims which have said, “The very poison that kills becomes the elixir of life when used by the wise”, or “one must rise by that which one falls”, and that Bukti (enjoyment) can be used as a means towards mukti (liberation).
“but the same language can liberate us, when you can clearly label things, understand how things work, and then utilize those things towads our benefit.”
Our language is useful in that way, but if you start clinging to our words, descriptions, and knowledge - then they become barriers.
“Like it or not, you have to use language. You do live in a real world. You do have senses and you do have mind.”
That is great, it has taken millions of years of evolution for the mind and senses to develop to what they are now. But to have clarity into the mind, something beyond the mind is needed.
“If you did not use language, you would not know the difference between a snake and a rope”
To know the difference, no language is needed - just the capacity for seeing. Out of seeing, then perhaps you can say something about it to make the situation more easily accessible to others. But it should be understood - that everything that we are using in language has it’s roots in experience, and language is not a substitute for experience.
“Why, because we are separate conscious being”
I would question this.
“Buddhism went the nihilism path”
I am not a Buddhist, and there are a thousand and one things which I would not agree with in Buddhism. Truth is neither Buddhist, Hindu, or otherwise. But you are wrong - “Buddhism” is not nihilistic. Nihilism is itself another projection of the mind.
"Yeah, lets just annihilate ourselves and not make any efforts "
That is also inaccurate. If one knows anything about the training of the Buddhist monks - they have been just as arduous and one-pointed in their disciple as any other tradition, they are yogis.
"You expect us to throw away language, throw away control, throw away our ego, and just leave ourselves prey to nature. "
No, that is not my approach. Everything is to be seen, understood, developed, and integrated. Even the ego, when put where it belongs in one’s total structure, becomes supportive for one’s expansion. Nature has never put anything in one’s system without a precise function.
“For even to deny you, you would have to admit the one that denies. The fact that there is a you, who knows, sees, desires, feels is absolute.”
In a sense, there is. In a sense, there is not.
He (or she) whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: “I am the holy spirit incarnate”
[QUOTE=Dickon;57147]He (or she) whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: ?I am the holy spirit incarnate?[/QUOTE]Jesus said:[B] ?I am the son of GOD?. How many people believed him?
[/B]