[QUOTE=svayambhu;59797]Caveat emptor! This guys are very slippery ![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I wouldn’t go anywhere near them. I have been invited to do their free initiation though, by an acquaintance of mine. I politely turned down the offer. Don’t really need those kinds of people in my life… 
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56219]Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.
It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.
Servam Brahmamayam![/QUOTE]
Maya - in sanskrit :- Ma=Not; Ya = That;
Maya = Ma Ya = That which is not = the unreal
as opposed to the real which is Brahman
Brahaman in association with Maya is the Jiva.
Maya - in sanskrit :- Ma=Not; Ya = That;
This is not the correct etymology. The root for not in Sanskrit is nir or a, like nirvana or avidya.
The correct etmology for maya is Ma+ya is Ma which means producer/maker/source and ya which means to move or to go. In other words maya is the productive source of all that is in motion or in change. The opposite of maya is brahman who is unchanging, still, eternal and perfect. Later maya becomes prakriti, which means exactly the same: the source of all produced action or things.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;60639]The [B]correct etmology for maya is Ma+ya is Ma which means producer/maker/source[/B] and ya which means to move or to go. [/QUOTE]“Ma” means Mother.
Maya in Hindu narratives
Maya may also be visualized as a guise or aspect of the Divine Mother (Devi), or Devi Mahamaya, concept of Hinduism.
[QUOTE=cherrytree;59147]I have been studied the following:
Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
OSHO
:D[/QUOTE]
Cherrytree,
See links on page 1 of this thread regarding the above groups especially Sahaja Yoga and Brahma Kumaris.
You mentioned no one can make you believe, etc; these groups do not kidnap you and force you to believe of course but they do slowly indoctrinate you. A common denominator between all these groups is their Guru or founder holds all truth or greater truth or the ultimate revelation for mankind today.
As for saying some of these groups do not charge, true [B]but note[/B] groups like BK or Sahaja Yoga that do not charge have acquired multi millions in money, property, etc - where do you think they got it from? Answer - their followers! Basic reverse psychology don’t ask for money can often get you vast amounts people contribute or make donations to the cause. For example Scientology blatantly charges a fortune for courses to get you up the Bridge, TM - Transcendental Meditation charges a lot for courses; Brahma Kumaris courses are free - yet all of them are making millions, have millions of property around the world etc and none of them started off that wealthy!
[B]A key question - if you like the teachings of OSHO, Sahaja Yoga, Brahma Kumaris, SRF; why bother joining any of the movements themselves??? Why become a member of them[/B]
If you join Brahma Kumaris , Sahaja Yoga, etc it will restrict you in your quest for spiritual truth because you will come to believe you have it all in your movement or organisation, and come to believe the Guru or founder holds all truth or the ultimate truth for this day and age.
Someone like OSHO, I find his writings very poor, a hodge podge of different spiritual ideas drawing from different sources; nothing remotely unique or special but often very pretentious - he had an uncanny knack of making the simple look profound, or [B]had an instinctive knowing of being able to say what people wanted to hear to get their attention.[/B] His writings philosophically are very poor compared to say Krishnamurti and few serious scholars would put them on the same level; in terms of spirituality and beauty his writings are very poor compared to say Paramahansa Yogananda. That is my opinion , if others think he was something amazing that is their prerogative.
[B]What I admire regarding OSHO is not so much the man himself but the people that came after him and [U]re-marketed and re-branded Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh [/U][/B] - a nutcase egomaniac guru with a fleet of more than 100 Royals Royces (who needs over a 100, just bought to show off) with a talent for attracting the vulnerable and gullible and hoodwinking them inmto handing over a fortune hence the Rajneesh movement became very wealthy, with bizarre practices using spiritual practices mixed with psychology to give people a hit or euphoric feelings and keep them coming back for more and more importantly keep them handing over money [B][U]as OSHO[/U][/B] - the lovely spiritual master, with profound teachings, no crazy practices, or little if any mention of his wild excesses like 100+ Royals Royces, run ins with the law (or of mentioned of course he was a victim lol), no bright orange robes, etc. The make over is rather like the Divine Light Misson becoming Elan Vital.
Of course just like Scientology, the great L. Ron Hubbard; anything dodgy or illegal or any run ins with the law from his organisation or people in it - followers know will tell you these were rogue people he knew nothing about such illegal activitiesl, dodgy practices, etc. Same with OSHO poisoning the water in Oregon etc - today the movement will tell you it was done by rogue people in the organisation, good old Osho knew absolutely nothing about it lol! Of course these people knew what was going on in their organisations or movements they kept a very tight grip on them, but followers today have to be in denial and believe the founder could not possibly be so corrupt or condone or be involved in illegal or immoral activities.
[B][I]You may be able to find it online to watch - try search yourself, seek out ‘Fear Is The Master’ on OSHO http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/products/FIMD well worth watching! Includes a lot of film of him and his practices and followers from when he was alive - not just people talking now and saying this or that happened, you actually see it as it happened. After watching it you too will come to admire the rebranding & remarketing of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh as OSHO, and also see just how gullible & naive followers were in his liftetime , and even more so now - gullible enough to ignore or be in denial about many things he did or advocated in his lifetime[/I][/B]
[B]You can read up on any of these movements and practice their teachings if you want, that does not mean you have to join them though - thus giving up your freedom to completely independent thought.
[/B]
In response to the OP, may I draw your attention to [B]3HO[/B], (Healthy, Happy, Holy Organisation) who markets their brand of yoga as “[I]Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan”[/I]?
Here is a collection of articles documenting this organisation: http://www.rickross.com/groups/3ho.html
[QUOTE=Nomad_Kamda;60811]In response to the OP, may I draw your attention to [B]3HO[/B], (Healthy, Happy, Holy Organisation) who markets their brand of yoga as “[I]Kundalini Yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan”[/I]?
Here is a collection of articles documenting this organisation: http://www.rickross.com/groups/3ho.html[/QUOTE]
Have heard of 3HO of course (not to be confused with H20 lol), they were never very big and since the passing of the Guru are falling apart http://special.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/24671927-41/yogi-khalsa-bhajan-leaders-members.csp
Outside U.S. they are not well known at all, and even in the U.S. they are still not very well known or as high profile as TM - Transcendental Meditation, etc.
Like Brahma Kumaris (Raja Yoga), the Kundalini Yoga in 3HO bears little if any relation to Kundalini Yoga if you were to research it indepth or go study it with a reputable teacher. Some of these groups adopt names of branches of Yoga and say that is what they practice helps with marketing but e.g. Brahma Kumaris - Raja Yoga they do is really nothing like Raja Yoga - yet all their publications & websites make frequent use of name ‘Raja Yoga’ and state that is what BK is.
The list of Cults I gave in OP was just a small sample, by now means exhaustive could list many more Yoga or Eastern cults; though some of those I listed originally are amongst the most well known.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;60639]This is not the correct etymology. The root for not in Sanskrit is nir or a, like nirvana or avidya.
The correct etmology for maya is Ma+ya is Ma which means producer/maker/source and ya which means to move or to go. In other words maya is the productive source of all that is in motion or in change. The opposite of maya is brahman who is unchanging, still, eternal and perfect. Later maya becomes prakriti, which means exactly the same: the source of all produced action or things.[/QUOTE]
Asata MA Sat Gamaya (Lead me to truth not untruth)
Tamaso MA Jyotir Gamaya (…to Light not darkness)
Mrityor MA Amritam Gamaya (to immortality not death)
Every word in Sanskrit has several meanings. That is what makes it such a rich language. The meaning needs to be derived from the context.
[QUOTE=Seeker33;60645]“Ma” means Mother.
Maya in Hindu narratives
Maya may also be visualized as a guise or aspect of the Divine Mother (Devi), or Devi Mahamaya, concept of Hinduism.[/QUOTE]
Ma in Hindi is Mother. Sanskrit is a different language though both have devangari scrips. In Sanskrit Janani is mother, another term is Mata.
[QUOTE=reaswaran;61008]Asata MA Sat Gamaya (Lead me to truth not untruth)
Tamaso MA Jyotir Gamaya (…to Light not darkness)
Mrityor MA Amritam Gamaya (to immortality not death)
Every word in Sanskrit has several meanings. That is what makes it such a rich language. The meaning needs to be derived from the context.[/QUOTE]
Let me also quote a passage from Jnana Yoga by Swami Sivananda
QUOTE "Maya is “not that”- Ma -Not , Ya- That. It is not Brahman or the solid reality that is at the back of this seeming universe and at the back of all minds and all objects, but the illusory power of Brahman.UNQUOTE
You will find the quote under the heading Maya -Chapter Creation and Maya., Life and Works of Swami Sivananda Volume 6.
Then two etymologies are possible
Dear Friend:
There could be persons with limited psychic abilities who attract a large number of followers. These could be termed as cults as they do not result in any spiritual uplifting of these followers, who soon either start living in a fools’ paradise or become devilish.
On the other hand, we have ordinary frauds, who have perfected their art (craft) of making people follow them. Here too are cults without any spiritual foundation.
However, there are spiritually elevated persons who do radiate positivity, kindle the spiritual goals in others and guide them too. Such persons could naturally attract a large number of followers. They are however doing their divine task selflessly. I think such followings should not be classified as cults in the normal sense.
In Yoga, the [I]“Guru-Shishya”[/I] relation is of utmost importance and a yoga aspirant should certainly seek a genuine guru. On the other hand, it is also said that if one ardently and sincerely wishes to meet one’s guru, this sincerity will draw the guru towards the aspirant.
To test if it is a (fake) cult, check three things as regards the person you are considering to be your guru: [I][B]“kanaka”[/B][/I] (involvement of money), [I][B]“kanta”[/B][/I] (attraction for opposite sex) and [I][B]“kirti”[/B][/I] (attraction for fame). If you find any of these, just say “thanks, but no thanks”.
Absence of these three aspects and presence of followers is a sure indication of the presence of a spiritual flame. Such a place would not be a cult. Seek grace and blessings here.
regards, anand
p.s. Cult awareness groups could themselves be cults. So beware of that too.
[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;61045]Dear Friend:
There could be persons with limited psychic abilities who attract a large number of followers. These could be termed as cults as they do not result in any spiritual uplifting of these followers, who soon either start living in a fools’ paradise or become devilish.
On the other hand, we have ordinary frauds, who have perfected their art (craft) of making people follow them. Here too are cults without any spiritual foundation.
However, there are spiritually elevated persons who do radiate positivity, kindle the spiritual goals in others and guide them too. Such persons could naturally attract a large number of followers. They are however doing their divine task selflessly. I think such followings should not be classified as cults in the normal sense.
In Yoga, the [I]“Guru-Shishya”[/I] relation is of utmost importance and a yoga aspirant should certainly seek a genuine guru. On the other hand, it is also said that if one ardently and sincerely wishes to meet one’s guru, this sincerity will draw the guru towards the aspirant.
To test if it is a (fake) cult, check three things as regards the person you are considering to be your guru: [I][B]“kanaka”[/B][/I] (involvement of money), [I][B]“kanta”[/B][/I] (attraction for opposite sex) and [I][B]“kirti”[/B][/I] (attraction for fame). If you find any of these, just say “thanks, but no thanks”.
Absence of these three aspects and presence of followers is a sure indication of the presence of a spiritual flame. Such a place would not be a cult. Seek grace and blessings here.
regards, anand
p.s. Cult awareness groups could themselves be cults. So beware of that too.[/QUOTE]
How do you know your teacher knows his stuff - because he is he celibate, not asking for money, and not seeking fame?
Do you consider him your guru or teacher?
[QUOTE=The Scales;61050]How do you know your teacher knows his stuff - because he is he celibate, not asking for money, and not seeking fame?
Do you consider him your guru or teacher?[/QUOTE]
Dear Friend:
Guru need not be celibate. There are Gurus with family who can said to be spiritual householders. What I said is the person should not be attracted towards the opposite sex.
Money and fame are for the worldly and materialistic person. A person with interest in either of them cannot be Guru. At the most, He/ she can be a teacher of sorts.
Regarding “knowing the stuff”, I mentioned that, subject to the above aspects, if the person has followers, then it means many people are experiencing the [I][B]“guru-tattwa”[/B][/I] in him / her. They are there because by observing their own changes even in their day to day life, they know that they are advancing spiritually.
It is known in Yoga that such [I]“Vairagya”[/I] (dispassion) goes hand in hand with spiritual elevation. THE sign of a potential Guru. (Of course, laziness or [I]“tama”[/I] should not be confused with dispassion).
Still, you could question such person on points of knowledge and see if the response is based on sound principles and / or touches you within.
Even after accepting a person as Guru, one can raise questions. A real Guru takes such questioning as Service received from the aspirant.
regards, anand
[QUOTE=reaswaran;61011]Let me also quote a passage from Jnana Yoga by Swami Sivananda
QUOTE "Maya is “not that”- Ma -Not , Ya- That. It is not Brahman or the solid reality that is at the back of this seeming universe and at the back of all minds and all objects, but the illusory power of Brahman.UNQUOTE
You will find the quote under the heading Maya -Chapter Creation and Maya., Life and Works of Swami Sivananda Volume 6.[/QUOTE]
Dear Easwaran,
I somewhat mentioned the same a month before in this thread. I am quoting the same in the following lines. However, I found lots of otherwise replies.
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56219]Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.
It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.
Servam Brahmamayam![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sahasrara;61056]Dear Easwaran,
I somewhat mentioned the same a month before in this thread. I am quoting the same in the following lines. However, I found lots of otherwise replies.[/QUOTE]
Of course.
[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;61053]Dear Friend:
Guru need not be celibate. There are Gurus with family who can said to be spiritual householders. What I said is the person should not be attracted towards the opposite sex.
[/QUOTE]
So they should not be attracted to thier wives? Or they should be attracted to the opposite sex?
Money and fame are for the worldly and materialistic person. A person with interest in either of them cannot be Guru. At the most, He/ she can be a teacher of sorts.
What if there is need of fame and affluence to fulfill thier svadharma? Therefor their motivation for fame and affluence arises from alturism and not from selfish egoism? Those motivated by alturism cannot be guru? Then the question arises. How do you tell from which springs thier motivation? The clever fraud will pretend it’s from alturism - but yet he has multiple rolls royces, and a ‘business’. Which he will undoubtedly have a plausible excuse for.
Regarding “knowing the stuff”, I mentioned that, subject to the above aspects, if the person has followers, then it means many people are experiencing the [I][B]“guru-tattwa”[/B][/I] in him / her. They are there because by observing their own changes even in their day to day life, they know that they are advancing spiritually.
There are many people who are considered ‘gurus’ - and have many followers - who are not truly gurus. They are usually good actors skilled in speech and the control of others. They ‘sound’ like they know. But they do not.
It is known in Yoga that such [I]“Vairagya”[/I] (dispassion) goes hand in hand with spiritual elevation. THE sign of a potential Guru. (Of course, laziness or [I]“tama”[/I] should not be confused with dispassion).
Dispassion - can be cultivated like any other qualtiy. Therefore anyone can cultivate that quality. Like an actor preparing a role.
Still, you could question such person on points of knowledge and see if the response is based on sound principles and / or touches you within.
If your ‘sound principles’ or "touches you within’ are not based upon truth - but fancy and fiction - when the parrot speaks with words you have identified as truth - but in reality they are not - they will resonate - even if delusion.
Even after accepting a person as Guru, one can raise questions. A real Guru takes such questioning as Service received from the aspirant.
A real guru selects you and not the other way around. BUt this can be true of the fake as well - so you see we have a real problem here.
So how do you tell?
[QUOTE=The Scales;61065]
So how do you tell?[/QUOTE]
This makes me curious - how would The Scales tell?
The Phrase goes “when the pupil is ready the teacher appears.”
The Phrase doesn’t go “when the pupil is curious they go find a teacher.”
[QUOTE=The Scales;61065]So they should not be attracted to thier wives? Or they should be attracted to the opposite sex?
What if there is need of fame and affluence to fulfill thier svadharma? Therefor their motivation for fame and affluence arises from alturism and not from selfish egoism? Those motivated by alturism cannot be guru? Then the question arises. How do you tell from which springs thier motivation? The clever fraud will pretend it’s from alturism - but yet he has multiple rolls royces, and a ‘business’. Which he will undoubtedly have a plausible excuse for.
There are many people who are considered ‘gurus’ - and have many followers - who are not truly gurus. They are usually good actors skilled in speech and the control of others. They ‘sound’ like they know. But they do not.
Dispassion - can be cultivated like any other qualtiy. Therefore anyone can cultivate that quality. Like an actor preparing a role.
If your ‘sound principles’ or "touches you within’ are not based upon truth - but fancy and fiction - when the parrot speaks with words you have identified as truth - but in reality they are not - they will resonate - even if delusion.
A real guru selects you and not the other way around. BUt this can be true of the fake as well - so you see we have a real problem here.
So how do you tell?[/QUOTE]
Dear Friend:
I had tried to list out the signs of a person whose consciousness is always turned inwards. There could be fakes/ actors as you have pointed out.
One may also trace the lineage or the tradition or the [I]parampara[/I] which has preceded the present person. One could step in where there is a sound [I]“Guru Parampara”.[/I] Sudden independent Avatars may exist, but it would be risky to trust one’s own judgement in this regard.
Also, if after a year, even after devotedly following the instructions of the Guru, one does not experience any progress (at least a small movement towards equanimity), one should consider another Guru.
A real Guru selects, that’s right, but he tests only to find out if the aspirant is ardent, sincere and persistent. In today’s world, an aspirant with such qualities may also approach the Guru.
regards, anand
p.s. If I may ask, have you met your Guru?