[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56613]No cults have ever been able to ensnare me because [B]I have never killed my seeking mind[/B]. I have a good discriminating mind. As soon as I spot something is wrong, I don’t forget it. This makes me investigate and when I have enough evidence against something, I drop it pronto and move on.[/QUOTE][B]“You cannot know the meaning of your life until you are connected to the power that created you.”[/B] Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
How you know what is truth and what false? By your Ego? Who are you to judge?
Matthew 7
[B]1 ?Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.[/B]
I am not claiming to know what is ultimately true or what is ultimately false, but do I know what is true and what is false in the world I live in. I know, for example it is true the Eiffel tower is in Paris and not London. If I did not have a faculty that could not discriminate between what is true or false, it would be impossible to live in the world. This basic ability to discriminate allows me to cross the road safely.
If you are involved in an organization and you spot corruption, are you going to tell yourself, “How do I know what is true or false” or are you going to do something about it? Similarly, I know when I am in a bad cult. I spot what is wrong, and do something about it.
I have already had these conversations Seeker33 with members of the SY group. Like you, they are anti-rationality, anti-reason, anti-judgement. Like you they reject the most important faculty we have been blessed with the intellect. They deny this faculty, because if this faculty was working in them, they would never be a part of SY. Thus they are taught propoganda like, “You should not make judgement, mother knows best” or “You should not make judgements, let the vibrations speak” It is designed to kill your seeking mind.
But this is not specific to SY, every bad cult discourages free and independent thinking. The BK’s told me to stop asking questions, throw away my knowledge and listen to them. The Anandamarga Yoga people reacted with intolerance towards me whenever I asked questions.
Even in the Gita you are taught that your buddhi is your most important faculty and it is your buddhi that you need to sharpen so you can make more sharper judgements. Krishna says a person who has lost their buddhi has lost themselves. The wise are those who have a clear buddhi. I am not going to give up my buddhi. If I did not have a good buddhi I would have got myself into all kinds of mess in my life.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56618]I have already had these conversations Seeker33 with members of the SY group. Like you, they are anti-rationality, anti-reason, anti-judgement.[/QUOTE]Yoga Darshana has nothing to do with rationality and science. [B]Science is ignorant about chakras and you can?t comprehend chakras with your rational mind but the father of yoga Patanjali speaks about chakras. [/B]
Nope, Seeker33, Yoga has everything to do with science and rationality. Have you not heard many Yoga gurus call Yoga a science? Have you not read the Gita, the bible of Yoga, where Krishna tells Arjuna to use his rationality. Then teaches him the science of Yoga on how he can improve this rationality.
Like I said I have already talked to members of your cult and I know you folks are anti-reason and rationality and anti-science. This is the brainwashing you receive in your cult.
However, if you read all the classical texts of Yoga, none of them are anti-reason and rationality or anti science. What does Krishna do when Arjuna refuses to fight? He reasons with him.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56625]Nope, Seeker33, Yoga has everything to do with science and rationality. Have you not heard many Yoga gurus call Yoga a science? Have you not read the Gita, the bible of Yoga, where Krishna tells Arjuna to use his rationality. Then teaches him the science of Yoga on how he can improve this rationality.[/QUOTE]Gita IS NOT the bible of Yoga.
This lesson will be for free. Looks like you are wasting my time.
In Indian philosophy, Yoga is the name of one of the six orthodox philosophical schools. The Yoga philosophical system is closely allied with the Samkhya school. The Yoga school is expounded by Patanjali .
Yep, the Gita is considered the bible of Yoga. Do you not know this?
Here is a free tip for you: Do not try to teach me Yoga, Hinduism, Indian philosophy, philosophy or science. I far far outstrip you in all these areas, have been studying Hinduism and Yoga for 10 years, a first class degree in Philosophy, and a dissertation on Yoga and Samkhya with distinction. I will make you look stupid 
The philosophical school of Yoga is a part of the astika tradition of Indian philosophy. It is not only just closely allied with the Samkhya school, it adopts all of Samkhya philosophy and the only part that it adds to Samkhya is the element(tattva) of ishvara, a special purusha that does not enter embodiment. Now, as somebody who has read all the primary Samkhya texts - the Samkhya Karika, the Samkhya Sutras and academic literature on the subject, including the modern Western expert Gerald Larson, I can tell you that Samkhya is a purely rational tradition. The first few sutras in the Samkhyakarika explain that Samkhya knowledge is all based on inference using analogical reasoning. It explains this is because Samkhya knowledge on prakriti and purusha are not empirical objects, their existence is necessarily inferred from the effects evident in the empirical. Prakriti is inferred by examing her observable effects, such as the fact that all things always have something which produces them(seed produces a tree). One argument given in the Samkhyakarika is that Prakriti is perceived to be non-existent not because prakriti does not exist, but because prakriti is very minute and subtle for our senses to apprehend. However, prakriti clearly does exist and can be established through pure logical arguments. Consequently, from the existence of prakriti, purusha can also be established.
The Samkhya tradition using pure logical arguments establishes purusha and prakriti as axiomatic substances and explains how the fact of perceived embodiment of the purusha is owing to an illusion of perception, which can be undone when the purusha abides in its nature of consciousness.
You are getting a free education, but I know learning cannot take place - because your mind is full of garbage.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56638]You are getting a free education, but I know [B]learning cannot take place[/B] - because your mind is full of garbage.[/QUOTE][B]“When the supreme reality is not understood, the study of the scriptures is useless, and study of the scriptures is useless when the supreme reality has been understood.”[/B] - Viveka Chudamani Shri Shankara
And yet Shri Sankaracharya is famous for one thing: for reviving the study of the Vedas and the Upanishads and presenting a rational philosophy based on them. He commented on 13 Upanishads.
Scripture itself will not help you understand the ultimate truth, but it is an aid. Nobody is going to get enlightenment by reading the Yoga Sutras alone. They are going to do have to practice what it teaches.
But a mind full of garbage will not get anywhere. First clear that mind of garbage by cleaning up your buddhi. Learn to be objective, factual and clear. Aid the process by practicing Yoga. When your buddhi is clear, your mind will be clear - and when your mind is clear the truth of everything will be clear.
The intellect and enlightenment are not mutually opposed. Sharpen your intellect and enlightenment is not far.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56618]Even in the Gita you are taught that your buddhi is your most important faculty and it is your buddhi [B]that you need to sharpen[/B] so you can make more sharper judgements. [/QUOTE]Buddhi evolving from Prakriti and Samkya Karika is clear that Enlightenment is full discrimination between Purusha and Prakriti. [B]To speak that ?your buddhi that you need to sharpen? is nonsense. [/B]
Shri Krishna is very diplomatic person and HE explains that everything should be done with [B]Ananya bhakti.[/B] When you know what does this mean then you can comprehend HIS teaching.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56653]The intellect and enlightenment are not mutually opposed. Sharpen your intellect and enlightenment is not far.[/QUOTE]The process of cleaning is also activity of Prakriti and will not help you. Everything should be done in spontaneous way ? SAHAJ, because you are not the Doer.
Buddhi evolving from Prakriti and Samkya Karika is clear that Enlightenment is full discrimination between Purusha and Prakriti. To speak that “your buddhi that you need to sharpen” is nonsense.
How can you get to full discrimination of something, before you get to half discrimination of something? How can you get to half discrimination of something, before you get to a quarter discirmination?
To develop such great powers of discrimination that you can discriminate every degree between purusha and prakriti you first need to sharpen that faculty of discirmination. You cannot even discriminate an unheathily obese woman whose mobility is severely compromised from a healthy person.
If somebodies buddhi is working properly they will spot everything. Having a very precise intellect/buddhi leads to a very precise and fine consciousness. You will spot everything. Nobody will be able to pull the wool over your eyes.
I am an intelligent person, it is hard to deceive me. Many have tried to fool me, but I have such a good intellect, I spot it. The BK’s tried - they failed; Sahaja tried - they failed; Anandamarga tried - they failed. Is it because I am stubborn and hold on firmly to my beliefs? No, because even my beliefs cannot deceive me. When my intellect spots errors in my belief, I throw the errors out. I stick to facts always. And the fact here is clear: your guru is a fraud. I can see it loud and clear. You cannot see it, because you cannot spot it. This is why I know you are very low down on the spiritual ladder. In fact more than half of the people reading this thread can spot it. This puts you down even lower.
The Real knowledge will come to you when you become The Spirit-Atma. Then you will know what is SAT-Truth, because the attributes of Atma are SAT-CHIT-ANANDA.
In this way there is no need to do discrimination because you will know the Truth.
BTW, quality of discrimination is coming from Hamsa chakra.
And to get to the atman and hence ultimate truth requires ridding yourself of all vrittis in the mind. How is that done? Through discrimination.
You are not going to get to the final stage, without first passing the first stage. If you refuse to use your intellect, like any part of your body-mind system that is not used, it will die. If it dies you will lose what is needed to clear up those vrittis. If you are not going to clear up those vrittis you will not get to the atman - and hence SAT.
Like I said, your mind is full of garbage. You cant spot it because your buddhi is poor. You will remain like this for much of, if not all of your life. The longer you remain like this the more and more your buddhi will die. You are not growing in spirt, but dying in spirit. Just as an animal that gets ensnared gradually dies in the trap. You are dying in Shri Mataji’s trap. There is no hope for you.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56659]And to get to the atman and hence ultimate truth requires ridding yourself of all vrittis in the mind. How is that done? Through discrimination.
You are not going to get to the final stage, without first passing the first stage. [/QUOTE]We are living in 21 century. We are not cooking with wood.
In 21 century it is not possible to get results with old methods.
With Sahaja yoga, Kundalini will awaken your Atmaand will establish SAT-CHIT-ANANDA within you.
I am sorry that sahaja yogis didn?t clarify this important fact to you.
Seeker33,
Does Shri Mataji ever claim to have mastered physical Yoga or been very physically active in life? Show us few photos of her doing Yoga poses.
It is common knowldege she is grossly obese and overweight and cannot possibly be in perfect health - [B]does she know better about health and medical science than any Doctor? [/B]I think not! Well any Doctor will tell you she is grossly obese, needs a diet badly and cannot possibly be in the best of health, carrying such bodyfat of course can lead to diabetes, heart problems, etc, etc.
[B]Why can’t Shri Mataji control a basic thing like appetite?[/B]
[B]Serious question - do you believe she is above Buddha, Jesus , Krisna, etc??? Or at least equal with them? Do you believe she is above Paramahansa Yogananda, etc, etc i.e. all the Yogi greats past & present??? [/B]
[B][I]Here are Shri Mataji’s claims about herslef in her own words [/I][/B]http://www.sahajacult.com/claims.htm
Grossly overweight (click next for more photos) :
http://www.sahajacult.com/photos/0001.htm
[B][I]Shri Mataji refuses point blank (as does Sai Baba, etc) to prove her claims and cites all manner of feeble excuses : [/I][/B]http://www.sahajacult.com/press/indian_press_articles.htm
[B][U]It is common knowledge Shri Mataji learnt her trade from a Master Conman - Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh OSHO , it is well documented including several photos of her attending talks and meetings with Osho. Note too - she attacks Osho now, as she wants all the limelight on herself. [/U][/B]
lets not get obsessed in physical plane, much. The Kundalini is in The spirit.[B][/B]
[QUOTE=MindNinja;56663]It is common knowledge Shri Mataji learnt her trade from a Master Conman - Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh OSHO , it is well documented including several photos of her attending talks and meetings with Osho. Note too - she attacks Osho now, as she wants all the limelight on herself. [/QUOTE]Osho and Shri Mataji
We are living in 21 century. We are not cooking with wood.
In 21 century it is not possible to get results with old methods.
We are living in the 21st century, but our body and minds are the same as they were 5000 years ago, as they were 10,000 years ago, as they were 100,000 years ago. The science of Yoga applies to all humans no matter what time period you are in.
You have vrittis, the humans 5000 years ago had vrittis. In order to realise the atman just as the humans 5000 years ago had to clear away their vrittis to leave a pure mind without vrittis which then reflects the true nature of anything it is put on, likewise so will you. How is that done? through discrimination.
When your consciousness becomes finer and finer this discrimination power comes naturally. You can detect every subtle difference. But like I said you cannot even detect that your guru is unheathily obese. You cannot detect very gross difference, forget about very subtle difference
The truth is people of your kind live in a fantasy that you are self-realised and prefer this fantasy over reality. You convince yourself your in connection with the atman and that your method gives you fast enlightenment - and what do you need to confirm that? A cool breeze. And that is enough. But as much as you can fool yourself, you can’t fool nature. Nature knows exactly where you are at, and it is nowhere where you think you are. Like I said you are a dying soul. There is no hope for you. You are so brainwashed those vrittis have solidified in your mind and they will remain with you even in you next life. RIP
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56669]We are living in the 21st century, but our body and minds are the same as they were 5000 years ago, as they were 10,000 years ago, as they were 100,000 years ago. [/QUOTE]In this way you are denying Evolution.
Shri Rama, Shri Krishna and Jesus came to establish different qualities within us and to support our evolution. [B]Shri Mataji came to open Sahasrara chakra.[/B]