Hi InnerAthlete,
Can you please elaborate on ‘perhaps’? I’m trying to understand pratyahara - heck, I’m trying to wrap my brain around all 8 limbs (which I find utterly fascinating and it’s all a bit new to me!).
Thank you:)
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33189]Well, I can describe two kinds of experiences.
The visions are nothing more than subconscious projections and tend to be random. I call them visions because you can see and hear them very vividly.
Sometimes they are more consistent and I can see equations, mantras and locations.
[B]Slipping down into the subconscious sphere isn’t what you should be after. [I]Usually[/I] nothing but tons of gobedely gook down there. Funny things. Disturbing things. Weird things. [/B]
The second kind of experience is something more psychic. My mind becomes like a television screen and I can see and hear the static, and then the static forms an image on the screen which I can see and hear. Sometimes I receive communication.
It is surprising how much the mind works like a receiver
[B]and Transmitter.[/B]
[B]I feel your Bsing me here on your second kind of experience. I was looking for certain things and you did not present them. Nice try though. A+ for effort! 
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Keep going. You’ll be just fine.
You are going to slip into the subconscious sphere automatically when you enter into pratyhara. It is just like when you are about to sleep the moment you are reaching sleep you are entering your subconscious.
You have a spiritual superiority complex by the way. I sure hope you have the credentials to back it up.
The Scales, I was wondering if you have an opinion on my experience based on maybe some of your own experiences with pratyahara? I think it will help me understand better. I probably should have asked for that in my original post up there, and not definitions or quotes, which in all honesty, kind of are going over my head in these early days of my learning.
Also, with all due respect, I kindly ask you and Surya carry on in your own threads please. Thanks guys:)
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33209]You are going to slip into the subconscious sphere automatically when you enter into pratyhara.
[B]This is incorrect. Slip into the subconscious sphere is because of lack of presence. [/B]
It is just when you are about to sleep the moment you are reaching sleep you are entering your subconscious.
You have a spiritual superiority complex by the way. I sure hope you have the credentials to back it up.[/QUOTE]
There are two on here who project thier ( ______ ) onto me.
Yogiadam and you.
Both of you don’t realize you do it. But I do.
How you like them credentials?
Scales so you are telling me you don’t dream? Is it because you have too much presence 
Do you even think? You must be constantly in thoughtless awareness. What are you doing on a forum like this, you should be out there collecting disciples
Sorry Wakingup. I will not say anything more out of respect for you.
Edit to add: For us mere mortals scales we have lot of subconscious thoughts to deal with. So when we slip into pratyahara, our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff. Interestingly, Swami Satyananda also explains this is what happens. You are obviously a demi-god 
Surya, I don’t know if this is what you mean by [I]“when we slip into pratyahara our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff”[/I], so here I go with another question;) Last night I tried again to remain aware of my hearing (waiting for it to turn off). It seemed like it started to happen and then all of a sudden I was barraged with some intense dreams/visuals, really almost violent, though I can’t remember what it was now. I just remember being conscious of not liking what I was experiencing. I woke myself up and tried to go back to sleep with thinking about it. Thankfully, sleep came quick. Thoughts about any of this? Anyone? I open the floor:)
Waking up, yep it sounds like you’re human.
It is a simple cause and effect thing. If you leave the conscious mind you enter into the subconscious mind, and then the unconscious mind. The subconscious mind is indeed very violent and the visions tend to be very random like a barrage of disconnected images. At this point it is easy to fall into sleep and start dreaming. However, if you maintain your awarenesss, after a while they will begin to subside and your mind will settle down. This is the point where your visions will become more coherent(connected images) and then they will stop altogether. If you have reached this stage then you can begin meditation. In fact you are not that far off from samayama.
Swami Satyananda explains this in very precise detail in his book, “Sure ways to self realization” which I highly recommend. He gives a yogic technique called antar mouna(inner silence) which is exactly designed to induce pratyahara. In fact it is very similar in the first stages to what you are doing. You focus on your hearing, but in this case you alternate with focussing on your natural breath. You keep doing this until you reach pratyahara(senses shut off) the next stage is when the visions start. This stage is important and if they have not started yet Swami ji recommends posing thoughts, this can trigger them off.
In fact I will just give you the stages he mentions(I have the book on me):
Stage 1: You become aware of your senses and how they are connecting you to the world. The eyes will be closed so you are only hearing the sound. After a while the mind will introvert.
Stage 2: Ones attention will now be in their own mind and its working. How it is reacting and what images are coming from the subconscious. This is the stage where grosser neurosis, phobias and tensions of the mind are released. You may relive past experiences and witness the eruption of suppressed desires. Keep observing until the mind becomes calm.
Stage 3: Posing and disposing of thoughts at will. You can play a little by inducing visions. You give it a thought and watch the fantasy the mind creates and then after a while you dispose of it later on at will. This will later develop into the practice of self analysis.
Stage 4: Now you simply watch the spontaneous thoughts arising from the subconscious again. The most prominent of these thoughts most be analysed and exhausted at will. When you have mastered this stage, your mind is going deeper into the subconscious.
Stage 5: At this stage your mind should be reasonably calm. Thoughts will still arise, but they will not be very strong, nor will they cause any great emotional upheavel. This will lead to the final stages of pratyhara: complete thoughlessness.
Stage 6: Begin Dharana.
By the way the Bihar School of Yoga is a no-nonsense, very serious tradition of Yoga. This is a proper authentic tradition and their techniques and books are second to none. Some of the best books you will find on yoga is from this group.
[QUOTE=WakingUp;33212]The Scales, I was wondering if you have an opinion on my experience based on maybe some of your own experiences with pratyahara? I think it will help me understand better. I probably should have asked for that in my original post up there, and not definitions or quotes, which in all honesty, kind of are going over my head in these early days of my learning.
Also, with all due respect, I kindly ask you and Surya carry on in your own threads please. Thanks guys:)[/QUOTE]
I will not elaborate on the signs because people can then run around with them blithering on like they are in the know. Which can be harmful to the integrity of yoga. Which I will not stand for. Thats why The Sun God is my new buddy.
I think perhaps your experience on the verge of sleep relates simply to mind and senses receding / introverting back into the subtle body and your awareness just catching a glimpse of the instruments losing contact with thier organs on the way back.
The form being your hearing shut off.
This is pratyahara in the sense of withdrawling the senses - yes. But awareness/presence was not maintained.
No maintence of awareness - No dharana/dhyana/Samadhi. No singlepointed concentration/contemplation/meditation/absorbption.
It is written in several upanishads and I’m sure the vedas about sleepy time.
Dreams CAN occur when the mind and it’s subtle instruments are in the pranamayakosha/subtle body/astral body/transmigrating body. The dreams can arise because the subtle body is the seat of stored impressions and or samskaras. It is these impressions and or samskaras which [I]usually[/I] shape the dreams. Thus the display.
In Dreamless sleep mind and its sublte instruments reside in the causal body which I [I]think[/I] holds no samskaras. Thus no display.
It is said that if awareness is maintained one can shape their dreams through will. See books on Dream Yoga if this interests you. I haven’t fiddled around with Dream yoga.
If the self is uncovered dream yoga is cake. I.e easy to do. Maybe a nice diversion while the body is at rest… Could be possible, more correctly probable to do other things while the body is a rest. But this can also be done through the sitting. I.e meditation session.
So anyway back to pratyahara concerning a phase of the meditation session. …
There are no trumpets. Angels do not give you high fives. There are signs though…very specific.
Think of pratyahara as jumping over the lower mind system.
Lower mind system being that aspect of mind with it’s incessant half thoughts, ramblins, musings, mutterings and thinkings.
This does not mean when withdrawl occurs that lower mind system shuts up with all its babble. Its a gradual throttling down. It may babble at you in the background some…
The more you sit and do the process the better you’ll get at it, and the quiter the lower mind system will get.
The clue is given in the Danielou quote.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33215]Scales so you are telling me you don’t dream?
[B]I dream. [/B]
Is it because you have too much presence
:rolleyes:
Do you even think? You must be constantly in thoughtless awareness.
[B]If I didn’t think I wouldn’t know whats wrong with you.[/B]
What are you doing on a forum like this, you should be out there collecting disciples
[B]I’m sharing.[/B]
Sorry Wakingup. I will not say anything more out of respect for you.
Edit to add: For us mere mortals scales we have lot of subconscious thoughts to deal with. So when we slip into pratyahara, our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff. Interestingly, Swami Satyananda also explains this is what happens. You are obviously a demi-god :D[/QUOTE]
Your projecting again.
Scales have you experienced pratyahara? So far there is myself, Wakingup and Swami Satyananda in this thread who are describing the same thing.
I am getting the impression you are speaking from book knowledge only.
In Dreamless sleep mind and its sublte instruments reside in the causal body which I think holds no samskaras. Thus no display.
Hmm, no. The causal body(Sanskrit: karana sharira) is named as such because the latent causes for all impressions in the mind are stored here. This is where the samkaras are stored. Why else did you think it was called the causal body? In dreamless sleep we do not experience any dreams because all karmas lay dormant in the samskaras. The reason we come back from dreamless sleep is because there are still samskras present that project us back into the waking. Once you have exhausted all your samskaras, you do not come back from dreamless sleep.
Hi Surya Deva,
Looking for a liittle clarification here.
Hmm, no. The causal body(Sanskrit: karana sharira) is named as such because the latent causes for all impressions in the mind are stored here. This is where the samkaras are stored. Why else did you think it was called the causal body?
Which sheath/kosha for.eg would you say the the causal body might refer to?
Vijnanamaya kosha. The intellectual sheath. I understand it as physical body, etheric/astral body, mental body, causal body and spiritual body.
Great stuff!
I just pulled this link on the 5 koshas and atman from Swamiji website.
[LEFT][B]Wisdom - Vijnanamaya kosha [/B] [/LEFT]
The next of the koshas is Vijnanamaya kosha. [I]Vijnana[/I] means [I]knowing[/I]. It is the sheath of wisdom that is underneath the processing, thinking aspect of mind. It knows, decides, judges, and discriminates between this and that, between useful and not useful. It is also the level of ego consciousness, meaning the powerful wave of I-am-ness. This I-am-ness itself is a positive influence, but when it gets co-mingled with the memories, and is clouded over by the manas, it loses its positive strength.
A major part of sadhana (spiritual practice) is gaining ever increasing access to this level of our being. It is the level that has the higher wisdom to seek Truth, to go within, in search of the eternal center of consciousness.
Then the bliss sheath,anandamayakosha
And then Atman,the true self. Or the Light itself.
I think use of the word intellectual might be misleading of confusing for some (at least i think it was for me(. The wisdom body sounds less so.Discrimination,viveka,moral action,intuition,
I guess, the light of inner guru is more likely to shine through the closer one is to the source.
Thank You!
Pratyahara . . .
Its not flabergastingly difficult.
Here’s how I manage it.
Little asana as a warm up. Thats all nothing special. Warm the body up get the kinks out. 5 10 15 minutes.
Then I just sit in a comfortable seat. It ain’t fancy. Lotus is good. But sometimes I don’t bother with that.
Get in the seat. Make sure I’m comfortable. [B]Thats a big key. Huge. Enormously important to be very very comfortable in the body. [/B]
Spine straigtht. Thats a big key.
Tip of the tounge to the roots of the upper teeth. Rest of the tounge in contact with the roof of the mouth. Tounge to head is important.
Lightly hold ashwini mudra. Not a big key but it helps. Like a little boost. Helps keep the vayu in.
If I’m not tired I do no retentions/kumbhak. I retain when I need a little lift or I feel like doing it.
The head is slighlty bent foreward but I don’t think this really matters either way.
The Breathing is Abdominal taking the vayu down just below the navel a little bit. Very easy. Very slight. Nothing fancy.
I don’t try and make Ujjayi noise. Although I imagine it would be helpful to some.
My eyes are closed and gazing out into the horizon void. Not down. Not up. Horizon. At a spot a couple of inches, I dunno four of five infront of me. Gazing at the nose may be helpful but I don’t do it.
The thoughts are there. Thinking. Thinking. I get balled up in them. I remember what I’m doing.
To get the introversion, the withdrawl, sometimes I will use just a little force on the mind.
I will forecfully try and hold down the mind.
Then I’ll ease up on it quickly. And wait patiently.
Sometimes no force whatsoever is required. The mind simply stops chattering away after a time. Then it’s not long. Just moments . . .
Then the sign comes for pratyahara.
Still need presence/awareness during pratyahara or lower mind will start chattering again in the background. It may chatter a little here and there. I find ignoring it works well. But if I let it run away with me pratyahara will cease, and I’ll have to reestablish awareness/presence. I look at the horizon void. Regulate the abdominal breath. Remember what I’m doing.
Once pratyahara is done its sign stops.
Then there will come different signs within the horizon void.
I will not elaborate on these signs. Because as I have mentioned elsewhere they should be kept secret for various reasons. They are not hard to figure out once you see them.
The speed at which all this takes place is relative to many factors.
Now I do realize this is not a common experience. For somebody just starting out on this. This will not happen. If you’ve done it in the past it will be much easier, usually, unless something went amok, to pick these things back up. The Karma plays a factor in this as well - at least for me. My heart chakra was, I don’t want to say completely closed, because I don’t feel that is true, but I had to have a certain realization occur for progress to be made in sadhana. When I had this realization, (it concerned why I’m here), there was an immediate energetic opening of sorts in that area. Upon reflection I feel that this block was a saftey valve. Because if everything was opened and operating at a young age I would have maybe been a terror, not understanding, or scared about what was happening. what the hay is going on and all this…
If the nadis don’t work. If they are full of junk. If sushuma doesn’t flow. If the chakras are not working. If there are unresolved blockages at the chakras. Very little if anything will happen. You may get to pratyahra right. But after that you will be blocked where there are blocks, if there are blocks you will have difficulty attaining good meditation and other things…
Thus we have all the various practices developed and handed down by the precious gurus to clean up, dissolve, activate and harmonize. Some more effective than others.
Some really good for one. Not good for other.
This is easy for me only because in the [B]past[/B] I spent considerable amounts of time doing what needed done under the guidance of a good guru. Do I have conscious memory of this past? No. Am I aware of it. Yes.
So like I said. I’m here to help.
I am not as scholarly as you. But I know a little. In terms of precision of asana I’m not the guy for that. But I know a little bit. In terms of yoga alliance certification and things like that. Being a professional trained teacher - Alignment and all this. Not me. But there are certain things I do know . . . so I help where I can.
I don’t think pratyahara is perhaps as elusive or mysterious as is being made out unless i have not epxerienced it. Howvere it is an altered state and it could be in degrees.I can buy the prana explanation that SD has offered. If the mind & attention is directed inwards then makes sense that the energies are contained and in theory it adds up to. And i agree that it i the gateway limb to the other limbs that makes the inner yoga much easier. A comfortable and easy seat is obviously the main obstacle to most folk.External distractions another. Then using yogic technqiques combined with inducing the state of pratyahara, as a lot of technique induce and traverse acrosss a number of limbs making use of them together.
I find relaxation practices,mild sambhavi, gentle pranayama,inner trataka and a myriad of other techniques induces intorversion of the senses or sensory awareness.Definitely deep mantra meditation should ring it on to some degree i would imagine.One can be aware of one’s surroudnings but not affected by them, unrepsonsive to them as such.
If you attention is directed on the breath or an inner object then pratyahara to some extent should arise naturally, no? I admit it is a very nice state to be in. And the real business, or business-end, of yoga gets done in this state, dharan happens alot more naturally and easily.We can then get on with depper aspects of our yoga practices.
Do alitle bit of gentle light asana and then some light pranayam, observe the abdoment rise and fall then try some dharana. Be sure to incprortae some relaxation practices definitely savaasna at the end of v. light asana. Then try some dharana. For some reason i would expect perhaps some pratyahar to arise naturally. Try gently focusing between the eye brows.And feel the eyes very very gently raise upwards, feel the fl of breath through the nose and at the bridge. Fel the diaphragm do it’s thing. Now try some extended dharan,focus on an object- it may be a part of the body, your breath/breath awareness or a mantra,verbally chanted ot silently intoned(more powerful, usually provided by a teacher or guru)
As the outer noise receds and is withdrawn so the inner noise slows down significantly. So our jounrey inwards continues as does our concentration.
I plug up the gates of the ears with foamy plugs. Solitude.
I don’t direct attention to any object. I just look out into the horizon void. Maintain awareness. Thats it.
Either apply some force to the mind to try and stop it or wait for it to stop.
Then pratyahar will simply happen…
I expect full reports from all the scientists on your findings. 
After about 30 mins espcially if use some pranayam or kriyas of any sort i often feel mild currents disperse and circulate, typically in the third eye region or around the face(that maybe just me or my web of obstructions/blockages;these are a symptom of friction,obstructions dissolving,prana flowing)This is a cue for me that the energy bodyor Kundalini is being woken,stiring if you like, and psychic and our physical connections are being made. I might expect some degree of either pratyahar being employed or the witness or observer state(or inner silence;the witness state can be depednent on this)A letting-go attitude faclitiates the process and the changes that can take place.Hnece the asanas beforehand and the calming of the monkey thinking restless mind.
You will know pratyahara by the sign. It’s distinct. It’s visual.
All this other stuff you speak of is the results of you doing the work. Vayu doing its thing.