Do you have a mantra?

Spirituality
#41

Do i have a mantra?.. other than be happy.

Well mantra is an interesting area of the yogic sciences…I’d like to understand it more.I’ve tried using some of the silent mental techniques (and i have tried verbally chanting Om though again possible conflict and a bit too much perhaps here).They work on helping to open up the subtle nervous system and deeper even more subtler levels.I might give the bija mantras on the chakras a better go at some point. I have used a mantra but i’m not sure if there were conflicts within the system i was using as i have been experimenting somewhat with techniques from here & there, i.e different systems to get the results that work for me.It i like medicine …you need to find the right concotions and combine and observe the results.I was using a TM type meditation using a deep mantra and occasionaly have revisited this previous practice but i am not totally sure if it conflicts,may conflict, with tantric-type sadhana that can be used alongside equally subtle work on the chakras and also alongside hatha yoga, i.e asanas & pranayamas,bhandhas,kriyas etc…

I have read that most people, not to fixate on Kundalini awakening and end-gaining, attaching to the imagined fruits of practice, usually have to employ a combination of methods or i.e yogas to this end.It is also said it is best if moral codes are in place and that we understand ourselves deeeply…this is the tricky bit…the unconscious and all that,seeing the blocks and facing them honestly.

I must say Amir sounds like he might have a decent handle on the area of mantra yoga science which would’nt be surprisiing given his six years of ascetic training. I wonder indeed what that might mean to be an asectic for 6years. Could that mean you withdrew from all sensory gratification and engagements with the outside external material world to allow good conditions to focus on more intensive sadhana perhpas?

Feel free to chime in here Amir… what it meant to be an asectic for 6 years so you could focus yourself more or better on your sadhana…

I’ve heard it also suggested not follow or rely too much on single schools of thought.Then there’s that saying “noble thoughts come from all angles/places(?)” or something like that… the Upanishads perhaps.

#42

With my own sadhana i find less is more ,then i build on it in increrments.

The joy and the results unfold better when you begin to understand the whole of the yogic sciences and how the peices of the puzzle fit together within the broader eight-limbed perspective. It certainly takes time and dedication but it’s worth it especially when the results begin to unfold.I think the first two limbs are the hardest to observe and be disciplined for but if you take the multi thronged approach you should come up trumps eventually… you need to find what works for you and i find it intruguing that a guru might prescribe a sadhan geared more towards someone’s personality…so someone overwieght might be mantra candidate or someone athlectic a hatha buff but i think you would do best to have all tools at your disposal but using them selectively at least to begin with… to get you started perhaps…then you can build on that and combine appropriately when you’re ready etc.

#43

core789,

“I wonder indeed what that might mean to be an asectic for 6years. Could that mean you withdrew from all sensory gratification and engagements with the outside external material world to allow good conditions to focus on more intensive sadhana perhpas?”

All that it means is that one is using the external environment as a means to help create an inner atmosphere which is supportive for the work of the expansion of consciousness. It has very little to do with morality. In my understanding, they are simply scientific devices. Something like remaining celibate has very little to do with morality, morality is as relative as relativity can be. The celibacy is a method to help gather the sexual energy so that the same energy can be channeled into one’s meditation. It helps to sharpen one’s concentrative power of the mind. And like this, there are many different ways to help accelerate one’s expansion, one will have to gather one’s energy from as many different sources as possible. But, if one is celibate for too long, it can create far more damage than good. Because man is a sexual creature, and sexual desire is just as much a part of his nature as eating, sleeping, urinating, or defecating. If you repress sexual desire, it doesn’t just disappear. It falls down into the unconscious and gathers force there. This is how many sexual perversions form. So, while celibacy can help you become very controlled, it does not mean one is liberated from sexual desire. Even sex can be enjoyed as long as one can maintain a stream of awareness without becoming entangled. In the tantric sciences, sex can even be used as a method towards one’s liberation.

There are cases where asceticism can be dangerous. Like any tool, it can be used in a million and one different ways. If you are clinging to the practice of asceticism, then it becomes a hindrance. Because whether you are clinging to the outer world or the inner world, it makes no difference. In one case, the source of one’s suffering is triggered from the outside. In another, it is from the inside. What is needed is not a renunciation of things, or objects, but one’s own egotism. That can be done anywhere. Because it is one’s approach of the mind to life which is the problem, because man has been living out of unconsciousness, he has created a misery out of his own mind. And if asceticism is used in a way which only helps nourish one’s own ego, that one is somehow doing something spiritual, that is one superior than others, or that by performing all of these mechanical techniques one is going to become liberated, then it is better not to become involved with it at all.

#44

Amir,

I think we’re on the same page here.

You see, i’d just call that brhamacarya, wise use or conservationn of sexual energies and lump that and other observances or disciplines such as diet, simple contentment,i.e not looking for much sensory graitification or distractions etc(e.g MTV or playstation, macdonalds etc) under the ascetic lifestyle. I say that because the term celibacy is misleading for me because like you indicate you can be celibate, what does that mean? okay not engage in sexual relations including with yourself and yet be not channeleing the energies wisely, i.e you can be hot with passion or full of lustful thinking yet still celibate yes(?).

So [I]bhramacarya [/I]as part and parcel of the ascetic lifesstyle, and one of the biggest evolutionary pulls to wrestle with, seems like more appropriate term to use as celibacy or sexual relations ,whatever your “status” you might want to define yourself as being/having ,are not dependent on wise use of energies including the sexual, perhaps the most potent force of them all.

I am assuming you are not narrowly defining asceticism to be largely celibacy although I find the term misleading as a lifestyle choice it says nothing about how you use and channel your energies, your thoughts , & mind etc.

Yes renouncing your egotism but in stages;[I] so[/I] it is the mind-set you/one brings to approaching life and all it’s challenges…Right ,I see what you are saying - it is the belief that one is doing something , i.e becoming more spiritual, usually than the next person, superioirty etc,that is a hindrance.

This leads me onto or begs my own slightly curious question what indeed was the asectic lifestyle lifestyle you perhaps followed?

You don’t have to live in a cave?? or in comparitive isolation or a " spiritual" environment to make your outer environment more conducive for these scientific devices to work optimally? Or do you if you don’t what did you do to follow this ascetic lifetyle.? And by asectic i mean yes bhamacrya (though i think at first you some sexual celibacy might not necessarily be a bad idea.i.e keeping yourself uncorruptable or pure .i know that sounds a bit like spiritual pride or cheesy/corny perhaps) though to me it tends to hint at following a simple lifetsyle where you keep your wants and desires limited , at least until you have undergone adequate & sufficient tranformations?

I believe in the left-hand tantric path because i think it provides ultimate liberation and that in some sense it is unavoidable, i.e if we’re serious about this whole hog…In that sense if one has reached that point then one does not need sex or sexual relations at east in the normal sense of the word…i.e one can take it or leave it and desire is more or less conquered through consistent cultivation.When the energies are channeled internally one does not need to seek it or gratification outside of oneself although the fact is one can be engaged in sexual relations or not for spiritual cultivation.

Was your own asceticism or “asectic” lifestyle one of simplicity or lifestyle observances or did you live in a more condicive external environment or what? I am curious what you mean when you say you were an ascetic. To me it may not necessarily be about sex ,though that is obviously a big part or force that can be used wisely of course for culitvation puropses, or lifestyle observances.You are not hinting at a conducive environment. Could living in a hut in Rishikesh or somewhere in the Himalayas for e.g or ashram-type place make that asceticism or lifestyle perhaps, inner/outer environment more possible, i.e more attainable? Was this the case for you or did you do it in a busy bustling city around distractions ,sensory or otherwise,and other like? Did you retreat? Was is in the meaning of your own asceticism?

Sorry for all the Q’s. I’m just curious.

Also : Are you largely self-taught to some extent btw(i.e without significant other in-the-flesh teachers)?

#45

core,

“You see, i’d just call that brhamacarya”

You are right, it is better to use the word brahmacharya as it has to do with an attitude towards the senses as a whole.

“am assuming you are not narrowly defining asceticism to be largely celibacy although I find the term misleading as a lifestyle choice it says nothing about how you use and channel your energies, your thoughts , & mind etc.”

Even what one considers to be ascetic and not ascetic are just our own relative ideas about it. For Mahavira of the Jains, a man like Gautama Buddha is living in great luxury, he is not a “true” ascetic. Because Gautama Buddha wore three layers of clothes, Mahavira lived absolutely naked. Gautama Buddha is eating a meal per day, Mahavira was fasting for long stretches of time. Gautama Buddha will eat apples from a tree, Mahavira will not even pick an apple from a tree because it is considered too violent. He will even sleep just on one side of the body for the whole night, just so that if by chance he turns over, he will not kill any insects. The standards as to what is asceticism are as relative as the minds which carry the idea.

“You don’t have to live in a cave??”

No. In fact, for part of my asceticism I remained in an apartment. But there are certain advantages to practicing in a forest, cave, or mountain. Because over a period of time, it tends to sharpen one’s intuitive centers of the mind that one’s mind becomes synchronized with certain natural cycles. Ordinarily, even in a period of twenty four hours the mind and body goes through certain biological rhythms and cycles. In biology, they have called it the circadian rhythm, although science has a limited understanding of the phenomenon. These rhythms are interconnected with various external forces, such as the lunar and solar cycles which have particular effects on the subtle body. But ordinarily, very few people are aware of the processes that one’s system goes through in a period of twenty four hours. So, living in a forest can help allow one’s awareness to become more sharp and sensitive to certain energies so that one can use those energies in one’s sadhana.

“Could living in a hut in Rishikesh or somewhere in the Himalayas for e.g or ashram-type place make that asceticism or lifestyle perhaps, inner/outer environment more possible, i.e more attainable?”

Ordinarily in the East, one first has to live with a community before one becomes capable of living as an ascetic. Because once one lives entirely isolated, by oneself, one will have to learn of all of the tricks to sustain one’s survival. For that, one first has to develop certain skills. That is why it is very rare that one immediately becomes an ascetic, one will have to gather some experience with the sadhana first. Amongst the Buddhists, before one becomes an ascetic, one has to live in a monestary for some time.

“I am curious what you mean when you say you were an ascetic.”

Lived in isolation, woke up from 4-6 a.m in the morning for the first sadhana, practiced several hours of sadhana starting from four specific times during the day, kept a vow of silence, remained with a vegetarian diet although I ate fish occasionally, cold baths only, wore just a single article of clothing most of the time, ate one meal per day. When I was not doing sadhana, I would read books to gather as much theoretical knowledge as possible.

“Was this the case for you or did you do it in a busy bustling city around distractions ,sensory or otherwise,and other like?”

In the middle of the city, though I rarely left the apartment. When I did leave, it was to go to a mountain.

“Are you largely self-taught to some extent”

I have never had a guru or a teacher.

#46

Hi Amir,

I appreciate the feedback.

Particularly words to the effect:-

Renunciation of egotism is neeed…otherwise, there’s no point even bothering…i.e with sadhana.

(I did notice you said egotism, used that word, rather than ego, i.e the tendency towards ego or false identification with it etc etc)

And this… i found helpful, insightful and answered my Q. very well regards an ascetic-type lifestyle , Thank You, Amir Mourad.

Lived in isolation, woke up from 4-6 a.m in the morning for the first sadhana, practiced several hours of sadhana starting from four specific times during the day, kept a vow of silence, remained with a vegetarian diet although I ate fish occasionally, cold baths only, wore just a single article of clothing most of the time, ate one meal per day. When I was not doing sadhana, I would read books to gather as much theoretical knowledge as possible.

I had this idea when i first read your post that ego could be a positive delusion as i remember you talking about that to simulate one into doing “spiritual” practices but then be dis-identified with over time as a result of sadhana …i.e the original motivations or impetus dissappear over time for higher aims.

I’ve heard somwhere you can have positive ego though…i.e if it assists self-development…i.e spurs you on then that surely must be a good thing…it is how you see it that matters,positively or negatively…just like the mind is a friend, a tool, so is the ego.

What you say there’s no poiint bothering. i.e with sadhana, i.e the renunciation of egotism kindof rang true here.You know that the ego still hangs on and makes us think we doing somethiing “spiritual” for everyone’s upliftement.It can deceive us or perhaps we can deceive ourselves rather… Then i had this thought,hey what if i just view all this sadhan stuff as mind/body/soul training than something kinda holy.By attaching labels and evaluations it can isolate it from it’s external environment. Like Pigeon-holing.Integration is what’s needed.

Recently i’ve just been collecting and exploring techniques.

But thanks for your helpful and insightful responses. I get alot out of your posts.Thanks!

#47

OM is a natural sound one makes when they open and close their mouth. Try it. Say “Ahhhhhh” and then slowly close your mouth while saying it, it will naturally produce OM.

The OM sound is said to be the sound of creation because the opening and closing of the mouth mimicks the expansion and contraction of the universe. Therefore producing this sound brings you in resonance with the universe.

Sanskrit is said to be based on classifying sounds based on which area of the body they come from, the sound actually gives away the meaning in Sanskrit. Next time you utter a Sanskrit word notice the sound it makes and how it is made by the mouth. Such as bhu, bhuva which means the manifest planes of reality. Note that when you say in particular bhu, how your mouth automatically blows out - as if you are blowing something into existence.

Notice when you say the Ha sound it produces a loud and sudden burst of sound, like an act of violence. Hence why the root sound Ha is considered violent. From this comes the word Hatha which is to violently force something and Hinsa, which means violence.

Similarly, each sound you use when intoning your mantra is going to produce an effect on your miind-body system. It is subtle, so you need to be aware. The meaning of the mantra is not as important, as the sound that it makes.

#48

core,

You are right, there is a great difference between ego and egotism. The problems usually arise out of the second.

“You know that the ego still hangs on and makes us think we doing somethiing “spiritual” for everyone’s upliftement.”

Yes. And it is a part of the mind which has evolved through thousands of years of evolution. Like any part of one’s being, ego has a particular function to fulfill. There is a very good reason why those who have been living according to the ego have never been fulfilled. Because fundamentally, it is only interested in self-preservation and nothing else. Whatever one’s desires, even if it appears to be the most generous and compassionate, if one’s experienced is revolving around the ego, then one is only going to be interested in using the other as a way to re-affirm the self. Whether it is in the name of God, or in the name of love, or in the name of some other name, it’s basic mechanism is the same. There are some people who are running around doing things which they believe to be compassionate, not because they are necessarily compassionate, but because it nourishes their ego in a certain way. Giving money to the poor - it makes you feel like a “good” person, or that perhaps sometime by some God or some law of karma that one will be rewarded for one’s actions.

While different ego’s may express themselves differently, all ego’s are more or less the same as part of man’s machinery. Living according to self-preservation may be useful as far as survival in the world is concerned, but as far as happiness is concerned.