I am new to yoga as my name suggests, and did a class a few days ago, in which we repeated downward dog quit frequently. I have tight hamstrings, so the whole back of my leg feels tights, and my upper backand spine does as well. Is this a result of muscle building or is the soreness mostly from my lack of flexibility stretches. I love yoga (I’ve done videos before), but I have to work on bone building by lifting weights to help combat osteopenia (I’m pretty young though). Does yoga help build bones and a greater bone density in the spine and improve posture? Thanks!
You may want to check the SYT (structural yoga therapy) papers on Mukunda Stiles’ website. There are currently five papers on osteoporosis.
Yogatherapycenter.org : : Sharing. Namast
[quote=Willem;9390]You may want to check the SYT (structural yoga therapy) papers on Mukunda Stiles’ website. There are currently five papers on osteoporosis.
Yogatherapycenter.org : : Sharing. Namast?.[/quote]
great URL, thanks a bunch for the link to some very interesting reading.
I’m gonna get some benefit outta that stuff since just 3 days ago I got to play ‘shoulder separation’, thanks to a young UCSB student who felt yakkin on the cell phone was much more important than payin attention to things on the road.
Anyway, back to the OP - having much less expertise in yoga than your average cat, I can still approach your question from a subjective and Kinesiological POV. Many of us Westerners suffer from flexibilty issues because of a more sedentary and less ‘body’ focused lifestyle. Muscle building takes quite some time (even if you’re juicin) so the onset of soreness, as you describe it, is prolly best attributed to the increased use of your body and the flexibility issues you describe.
Muscle building, increasing flexibilty and building denser bone are all longterm, slow process things. A good thing. Soreness will slowly subside as your body adjusts to the new demands of yoga. Along the way muscle will become more supple and strong and joints should offer a broader range of motion.
Purely from a subjective view, I’m amazed at the additional great improvements I’ve experienced in core strength and broader flexibility overall.
Bone density can be hung on even broader considerations, not only ‘weight bearing’ loads (which yoga offers in the use of your own body weight) but also in the key componenet of of proper and adequate nutrition. Weight lifting alone won’t build stronger bones without the raw materials to do that properly.
Downward dog is a very good indicator of flexibility issues of the lower back, sacrum, gluts and hamstring. Flexibility improvements show up quickly in how well one feels in downward dog.
If you can’t do a yoga class 3 times a week, then doing independent work/practice with a good series of poses, will have a huge effect on the benefits one experiences from yoga.
Yoga and posture - a well thoughtout Yoga practice will do wonders for posture. A cornerstone of all the yoga classes/programs I;ve taken and take is a ‘balanced’ practice which usues the body symetrically and balances loads as one moves from one pose to the next. That all makes Yoga one of the most ‘balanced’ physical things one can do. In addition to flexibility the ‘balanced’ effort means balance in the body musculature, which means the best for posture.
Integration of mind and body aside; the benefits from a purely physical side, from yoga, can be incredible. Add in the benefits and work of your mind and mental state and the sum becomes much greater than the parts. Add 1 part of phsycial asana with 1 part of mental integration and focus and you get 3 parts, maybe even 4 or 5, of a better, stronger, clearer overall ‘you’.
Given the added insight of a perceptive teacher/instructor, I truly believe there isn’t a human on the planet who wouldn’t benefit greatly from a well adapted Yoga practice.
I will add - almost all of the Yoga instructors I’ve had contact with are a special breed. Incredibly focused on helping their students adapt Yoga in the best way to themselves. Understanding and patient. most are fine examples of what we’d all think the best ‘teachers’ of anything, should be. I would recommend anyone find and use what Yoga instructors offer. It will make a huge difference in your appreciation and realization of your own yoga practice.
…just my POV…
namaste
Hey New,
it is weight-bearing that builds bone density. For most people that is not as much an issue with the lower extremities as it is the upper. So from that you could see how many different postures (asanas) would involve weight-bearing by the arms.
You also ask about “tight” muscles. I am not sure whether you are specifically asking if your recent Down Dog repetitions are creating this feeling or if you are already coming to the mat with this sense. Muscles are somewhat complicated and so I could give you a clear answer if you would kindly refine the question(s).
Thanks.
Inner athlete, what I meant about the tight muscles is that when I completed yoga, my muscles felt sore (in a good way). However, I am not flexible (can’t touch my toes) so is that soreness more likely from stretching rather than the soreness you would feel when you white lift and build muscle/bone? Thanks!
Inner athlete random question, but in looking at old threads, you provide really good detailed answers. How do you know so much about yoga and correct position (you seem to understand the science of the body as well, correct positioning, etc). I’m sure you have practiced for awhile as well. Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words.
I am a certified Purna Yoga teacher at the 2,000 hour level and am blessed to have chosen a teacher who has 40+ years of yoga in his consciousness and is both meticulous and focused in his teaching of teachers.
I find that discussing anatomy for yoga needs to fall into an “applied” context. Otherwise it is far too easy to discuss it ad nauseum and make things more confusing and murky rather than clear and accessible.
Generally speaking, lifting weights is shortening and tightening the muscles (it is not always so and depends on the hows of one’s weight training). Yoga (asana), on the other hand, is primarily about contracting muscles in a lengthened state. I would imagine that physiologically there is a similar set of chemistry in the body for these two things. Again, getting into the nuances of muscle contraction and micro tears and so forth would not be particularly productive for yoga purposes.
From what I remember being taught in my Kinesiology classes. Osteoprosis is a bit like pac-man (free radicals and whatnot) eating at your bones, and when we are younger our calcium uptake abilities act like the “ghost” and kill pac-man, however, as we age, we have fewer and fewer ghosts acting on our behalf, so the next best thing is electricity! When we do weight bearing exercises this force-full action against our bones creates an electrical current, which effectively “zaps” pac-man…while I have not read studies, it would seem logical that the stretching and re-aligning of our muscle fibers through yoga (which acts as a pull against our bones) should help block deterioration. I could be convinced that gentle yoga is not as beneficial as power yoga against bone loss - not to stir the pot on the other benefits of gentle yoga.
Namaste “New2Yoga”
Hamsa here, in Teaneck, NJ.
My paper on osteopenia and osteoporosis is available on the SYT website (graduate papers); there are lots of suggestions in the paper for you to explore in addressing your osteopenia.
The short answer to your query is that yes, weight-bearing exercise as we do in yoga when we bear our own body weight, or through other means, certainly can help build muscles/increase muscular strenth, and is highly recommended for people wishing to counter bone loss … though it must be done with proper form (alignment) so that you do not get injured. I teach two classes at my yoga center where I teach some of the Structural Yoga poses using light weights and flex bands (Therabands) to increase weight-bearing and resistance, and over the past 2-3 years, a number of students have seen their bone loss stop, or even reverse somewhat.
You mention Power Yoga. If you are referring to astanga-style classes, or vinyasa classes where jump-backs are taught, these are generally not recommended for people with osteoporosis. With osteopenia, it depends on the degree, where your test showed the osteopenia, and how well you are able to control the “core” muscles (abdominals, glutes, back).
So … I would love to know more details about you: age, history, any hx of fractures in the past, and what exactly did the bone density test show.
I would be happy to speak with you on the phone in more detail, if you wish.
Blessings,
Hamsa
Charlotte Chandler Stone, CYT, E-RYT500
Hi, I’ve read prior threads on this topic and they confirm what my instructor told me. He was an avid lifter for most of his life and quit 10 years ago, b/c he felt yoga and weight lifting contradicted one another - as he said yoga stretches and lengthens, and lifting tightens and shortens the muscles. I was told that I had the bones of a 35 year old, until I had the “real” bone mass test and learned I have osteopenia.:mad: I am over 50, and play tennis in from April to November about 3 hours a week, walk fast (ex-runner for 30 years) 5 days a week for an hour each time, spin 2x a week, and swim 10 miles a week. Yet I have osteopenia! I took up yoga because I am very tight despite daily stretching, and became hooked almost immediately on Power Yoga. So, my question is this: if I eliminate the 2 hours of lifting I do each week, will I become more susceptible to osteoporosis? Some of these yoga balancing poses are very difficult, requiring a great deal of arm/leg strength, and I’m very excited to see my arm and leg strength increasing after just 2 months of yoga. However, I’m not so sure it can replace weights for osteoporosis/osteopenia. Thanks for any input!
Osteopenia (or porosis) can;t be prevented by physical exercise alone. The physical stimuli makes the bone “want” to build itself, but if it lacks calcium, it can’t do it. Lack of calcium is a side effect of a high animal protein diet. (with unbalanced phosphor-calcium ratio). The extra phosphor is eliminated as calcium-phosphate, taking the calcium for this process from where it can. Phosphor is hundredfolds more present in animal proteins, so it needs similar amounts of calcium. Dairy is inefficient as a calcium supplier for this very reason, as it also contains loads of phosphor in it’s proteins. Calcium supplements often do not assimilate well. Best way is adopting a diet low on animal proteins (meat, milk, eggs), and with loads of green leafs.
reneie- yes! dont give up weightlifting, you need the overload on your bones to help to make them stronger. im a personal trainer, and its so sad the amount of women that come in looking to reverse their osteoperosis by strength training too late. Yoga is great for stretching and toning, as well as its spiritual effects, but the overload that your body provides is not intense enough to stave off osteoperosis. they compliment each other nicely, though, as you need to stretch after strength training to avoid that gorilla look that men get because their pecs are too tight (you shouldnt have to turn sideways to fit through a doorway.) tight muscles effect posture as well, which can lead to back problems down the road.
Kelly,
As a Yoga therapist, with professional colleagues who have studied Yoga therapy as treatment of osteoporosis and osteopenia, I respectfully disagree with this point that you have offered here. The weight-bearing component of a Classical and balanced Yogasana practice uses the person’s own body weight and it uses it throughout the range of motion for that individual. This builds both muscle and bone tissues. To share that Yoga does not offer osteoblastic benefits and is better to be utilized as a “stretching” compliment to weight lifting is really missing what an appropriate Yoga practice, under the guidance of a well-trained Yoga therapist or teacher, has not only to offer, but what it has been shown to offer in numerous studies sponsored by the National Institutes of Health and Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram, to name just two respected organizations. Combine a prescriptive, complete Yoga program with Ayurveda and you also address the vata and kapha aspects of the disease as well, making the healing approach holistic and higher serving. Perhaps you’ll agree with me that while it is unlikely that a general, at-your-local-gym “yoga” class will serve a person with osteoporosis with enough bone-building exercise and safety accommodations to be therapeutic and sattvic, those general classes are not representative of Classical Yoga practice–regardless if this is what is largely seen and made most available here in the USA.
If you have a chance and interest, take a peek at Hamsa’s Structural Yoga Therapy paper that she refers to a couple posts back in this same thread. You occur to me like a person who is both committed and curious–I think you may enjoy reading about the work that she did with her Yoga therapy client. You can also find out more information on Yoga research at International Association of Yoga Therapists
Highest regards,
Aligning with Nichole here.
Muscles protect bones in a variety of ways. Weight-bearing increases bone density not resistance training. Though I’m all for the concept of resistance training when it is done safely, mindfully, and with an appropriate intention for the doer.
Hubert, Nichole, Inner Athlete, Grounded, thanks for your very thoughtful responses. I have lifted weights (except for a break of about 5 years) since the 1980’s. I also ran between 10-25 miles a week for nearly 30 years. Running took its toll on my legs/feet, so I switched to swimming which I love, however, swimming does not combat osteopenia. Hubert, my diet is rich in greens, fruits, grains, fish and chicken. I rarely if ever have meat–never Beef. I do not drink sodas, or eat sweets. I have body fat of 11 % and am 57. I have fallen in love with Yoga and find it has hugely improved upper body and lower body strength as well as my horrific posture. (very round shouldered with curved spine) I would love to give up the weight lifting, as I find my arms are often tired during Yoga from the lifting/swimming, and I really do not enjoy weight lifting. I would much rather do more Yoga. It amazes me how little strength I had (totally unable to balance on one leg, or do any kind of handstands) despite all my swimming/running/tennis/lifting, and how much I have gained in just the few months I’ve started Yoga.
One other question: with 4 practices a week (1 hour each time), how long will it be before I can hope to achieve a headstand and balance? Some days I am really shaky.
Hi renie,
Osteoporosis is a consequence of the body?s vital organs (Liver, Kidneys, GI Tract) not being able to process & absorb Calcium. Only a small amount of the very large does of Calcium prescribed by allotropic medicine makes its way to the bones but at the expense of taxing vital organs even more. Ten years ago I was diagnosed with Osteoporosis ? having found the conventional treatment for this ineffective/unsatisfactory I underwent cleansing processes for cleansing & changed my diet to a Vata balancing Ayurvedic diet.
Consuming half an Avocado as a salad just before Lunch plus 8 Almonds (skin removed) consumed any time of the day and any quantity (I eat 4 with Breakfast & 4 with Lunch) is all the calcium you need, if you body accepts this.
Yes! Like you I discovered the captivating magic of Yoga about 3 years ago. Guided by CD?s of slim beautiful Yoga teachers I thought I will be able to emulate their performance in a few weeks. But No, initially it was challenging. It was when I came across the work of Mukunda Stiles (now my Mentor & Teacher) that I truly came to appreciate Yoga at ALL levels. With the help of many wonderful members on this Forum my practice has improved very significantly.
Body Cleansing, diet as per my Ayurvedic constitution and Yoga means my bone density has returned back to normal & I am no longer consider by conventional medicine as suffering from Osteoporosis.
By the way, I used to do running in my youth ? if anything I think its ill effects were felt 20 years hence.
A gentle practice you can build on such as the Pavanmuktasana (JFS) as described in Structural Yoga therapy by Mukunda Stiles is great. I was able to build on that. I am not attracted to the headstand, although I know it is highly rated. If you have any questions please ask.
I wish you well in your quest.
Best Wishes,
Love
Fin
Am I wrong in thinking that yoga is actually better than weight lifting for people with osteoperosis and other bone-related condition. For example, I have very sensitive feet now from living in the city and walking long distances with shopping bags over the years. I read the worst thing I could possibly do is lift weights while standing as a result. Now carrying a large purse around can be challenging for them, yet I’ve never experienced any discomfort at all while practicing yoga for my 3rd month.
[quote=Fin;12296]Hi renie,
Consuming half an Avocado as a salad just before Lunch plus 8 Almonds (skin removed) consumed any time of the day and any quantity (I eat 4 with Breakfast & 4 with Lunch) is all the calcium you need, if you body accepts this.
Yes! Like you I discovered the captivating magic of Yoga about 3 years ago. Guided by CD?s of slim beautiful Yoga teachers I thought I will be able to emulate their performance in a few weeks. But No, initially it was challenging. It was when I came across the work of Mukunda Stiles (now my Mentor & Teacher) that I truly came to appreciate Yoga at ALL levels. With the help of many wonderful members on this Forum my practice has improved very significantly.
Body Cleansing, diet as per my Ayurvedic constitution and Yoga means my bone density has returned back to normal & I am no longer consider by conventional medicine as suffering from Osteoporosis.
By the way, I used to do running in my youth ? if anything I think its ill effects were felt 20 years hence.
Best Wishes,
Love
Fin[/quote]
Fin, thanks for the wonderful response! I eat some avocado daily in my salad, and have added pistachios, which are about 1/2 the amount of calcium as almonds. I also eat yogurt daily. I’ll try almonds instead and eat more avocado! That’s incredibly inspiring that you are no longer considered to have osteoporosis. I am truly amazed at the unexpected benefits I have experienced through Yoga, which I initially started to help my lack of flexibility–lower blood pressure, more energy, better digestion, better happier mood, more flexibility and better posture, to name a few! You are very fortunate to have found such an incredible teacher - my experiences have been good but limited to “gym” yoga classes which I understand isn’t quite the same as a true yoga studio.
I can’t say I don’t miss the cardio/weight loss benefits of running, but the wear and tear on the body just isn’t worth it anymore. Take care, and thanks again.
I believe we do a disservice when we discount one activity for another, Whether Yoga or weight lifting, both have advantages. Now it may personally be more gratifying to do one over the other; but they are not mutually exclusive.
Contrary to some comments (herein) weight lifting doesn’t muscle-boundness, shortening or ‘gorilla’ appearance. How one approaches Weight-Lifting (or Yoga for that matter) is what causes disproportionate development. There are plenty of athletes who do weightlifting daily, who also have great strength, well-proportioned bodies and great flexibility.
Many sports which had, in the past, discounted and even prohibited weight training (as in team and coaching directives) only to now come around and realize that weight training offers great direct benefits to many other sports/activities.
There are so many components which go into causing ‘conditions’ and injury. Have you considered whether your footwear was adequate to the task, and how about your posture, during those years of lugging shopping bags around.
Doing one type of activity, 7 days a week, can be a cause of repetitive stress injury, and many people just don;t want to do the same thing all the time. Course anyone can vary up their routine.
OR
They can choose to do a variety of activities, all of which can have benefits which are additive to their other activities.
What I’m sayin is that, as so often seems to happen these days, weight training gets a bum rap from many. Because its misunderstood, and visibly represented by disproportionate use. But it is also the foundation for high performance in many activities.
We, the general population, may not be looking for ‘high performance’, but we are. We’re looking to be high performance humans, even as we age.
Lets not ignore something as important as weight training in that quest.
We may not call it ‘weight training’, but ultimately we will be doing it, if we seek to maintain our own personal best level and performance as a living being.
…just sayin
thank you for your insight. Yes, what happened to me was a combination of doing the same activity over and over (carrying grocery bags for long distances) and really anything from shopping bags to whatever it was I had to get back my apt. around Chicago and not really doing any overall stretching plus one summer (when I officially hurt myself with a stress injury) buying the wrong shoes - a pair of those plastic things with the rubber heels. If anything I would do machines that don’t put stress on my feet and light weights sitting down.