Enthousiasm & meditation

Mindfulness Meditation
#61

While I am at this, I am not above my own little ‘bugbears’ about all this either, you know?

I can see why you would be skeptical and I don’t blame you. Having a fair degree of skepticism about these things is only natural and understandable.

Just like when somebody posts something like “Raise your Kundalini the [I]easy[/I] way”. I’m like 'oh yeah, that’s cool, righty o". lulz

People put too much emphasis on the destination rather than on the journey (which is more important).

I read all these posts about others claiming they have reached ‘Samadhi’ as well…yeah, they may have and they may not have…only they know, amirite?

I can see where this would create annoyance…yeah, it even annoys me…however, if we were all just to ‘practice what we preached’ (which I do anyway) and if you think I should be off ‘bringing my knowledge to the world’ instead of posting on a Yoga forum, yup I could do that as well…

Totally nullifying and invalidating the requirement for forums like this to exist in the first place…yup I could do that and, in fact, will for a while.

Aum Namah Shivaya

#62

I disagree that faith is needed for bhakti. Although you will see in some translations the word “Shradda” translated as faith, that is actually a mistranslation, the word actually means steadfastnesss and connotes a conviction born our of ones reasoning and discernment.
There is no place for faith in dharmic culture, dharmic culture is scientific, it demands evidence, this is why I object to the usual rendering of dharmic religions as “faith” There are some ignorant people who treat dharmic religions as faith, and they are the ones you find engaging in bizarre rituals, superstitions and generally they are stupid.

Yoga doesn’t make you stupid, it makes you wise and discerning, it sharpens your intellect and every other cognitive faculty, it awakens genius. To do Yoga the less beliefs you have the better. Now why would you do Yoga in the first place if you did not believe in the metaphysical entities of Yoga: Purusha, Prakriti and moksha? You don’t believe in them, you know them, though your practice of Jnana, self-inquiry, reasoning and scientific analysis you become aware of these metaphysical entities. When your reasoning reaches a level of indubitably, conviction is born and from that bhakti. Then you start your practice. If there are still doubts remaining when you start practice, you need to go back to the drawing board and see whether you have truly understood the metaphysics behind it.

There is an obvious distinction between belief and knowledge. I only say I believe something when I do not know it. I don’t say “I believe I am typing to nobody right now” I am typing to you right now. This is verdicial knowledge validated by my perception and there is no doubt at all in my mind. In science, it works the same way, after having validated out findings repeatedly we develop conviction. An extreme example of this is the science television show “Brainiacs” They people on this show put to test scientific laws by putting their lives at stake, if the law is wrong, they’re dead. Fortunately, nobody has yet died on the show :wink: Such conviction is born from Jnana.

Don’t pretend that you don’t know anything - you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater with this feigning of humility. What you should say is you know somethings, but your knowledge is incomplete. In Yoga we do recognize something called “valid knowledge” Valid knowledge is distinct from fallacious and imaginary knowledge, while valid knowledge corresponds to an actual real object to know, the latter do not correspond to an actual real object, either because one has misprehended the object and formed wrong knowledge or because it’s imaginary(like the hare’s horns) Valid knowledge is our starting point to get to the ultimate natural knowledge that comes through Yoga. This is why Patanjali mentions several stages of samadhi - beginning with ordinary analytical knowledge.

#63

I will consider your viewpoint. I can understand that ‘faith’ isn’t needed, but why do we do anything at all then?

All I feel is love, regardless, and the unconditional purity of it.

How I got this way, I honestly don’t care.

Please don’t try and unsubstantiate this. So far, you haven’t done anything but tell me to do things I am/have been already doing. lol

I [I]know[/I] Jnana comes first. What should I do then, tell Socrates he was wrong? He actually knew everything and with his final breath ‘threw the baby out with the bathwater’?

I am going to be totally egotistical now when I say this (I am not beyond that either), but c’mon, give me some credit here. lol

#64

Patanjali > Socrates :wink:

Socrates, like any Greek philosopher were rather amateur compared to the Indian philosophers. Most of Greek philosophy comes from Indian philosophy, but it is an inferior and diluted version of it. Greek philosophy did not mature to the level Indian philosophy did, because it was rather young.

The Greeks and their wisdom has been exaggerated by later Europeans to construct their identity as originators of science, philosophy, democracy and civilization and justify their colonial expansion. Otherwise, Europe was nowhere prior to the the 16th century or so.

Btw such statements, “All I feel is love” are meaningless to me. They don’t say anything specific, they are wishy-washy and vague. Obviously, you do not just feel only “love” If i prick your finger tip with a needle, you are not going to feel love :wink:

#65

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81307]Patanjali > Socrates :wink:

Socrates, like any Greek philosopher were rather amateur compared to the Indian philosophers. Most of Greek philosophy comes from Indian philosophy, but it is an inferior and diluted version of it. Greek philosophy did not mature to the level Indian philosophy did, because it was rather young.

The Greeks and their wisdom has been exaggerated by later Europeans to construct their identity as originators of science, philosophy, democracy and civilization and justify their colonial expansion. Otherwise, Europe was nowhere prior to the the 16th century or so.

Btw such statements, “All I feel is love” are meaningless to me. They don’t say anything specific, they are wishy-washy and vague. Obviously, you do not just feel only “love” If i prick your finger tip with a needle, you are not going to feel love ;)[/QUOTE]
If you are trying to tell me that I cannot share what I feel, I already know that, but I can only try even though it’s pointless, yes.

Of course I will feel pain if I cut myself. It will hurt, as it is a physical thing.

I am not above feeling physical things just because I can also feel spiritual things.

I do know, however that even talking about this is a farce (that you have pointed out over and over too).

You do what you do and I’ll do what I do. Are either of us wrong or any better/worse off? Nope.

Now, having said that, I [I]will[/I] unsubscribe from this thread. Not because I have been ‘beaten’ but because there really is no point to doing all this anyway. lol

#66

Try to not use vague wishy washy terms. Even the term “I am having a spiritual experience” is vague, what the heck is a spiritual experience? Be specific and direct and you will have no problem.

New age people are known to hide behind very vague wishy washy language - they can write entire books of nonsense using these terms. People like me don’t let them get away with it, and they resent me for it :smiley:

#67

I can see where this would create annoyance…yeah, it even annoys me…however, if we were all just to ‘practice what we preached’ (which I do anyway) and if you think I should be off ‘bringing my knowledge to the world’ instead of posting on a Yoga forum, yup I could do that as well…

Totally nullifying and invalidating the requirement for forums like this to exist in the first place…yup I could do that and, in fact, will for a while.

Aum Namah Shivaya

I overlooked this post earlier, I think it deserves a reply. This forum is for people who identify as spiritual seekers and Yoga enthusiasts to discuss and debate Yoga and related issues. It is not very different from other forums online such as Computer forums, only the interest is different. By posting here we do not pretend to be any more spiritually developed, holier than thou than the regular person posting at Computer forums. Like any forum, we have our fair share of arguments and fights, which sometimes requires administrative intervention.

We are all very much in the same boat here. There are some pretentious members here(many which no longer post here) who claim to be more spiritually developed, special, enlightened - but it is fairly obvious there is nothing more special about them otherwise they would not be posting here. These kind of members use this forum as a platform to preach, market themselves and impart their wisdom and learning - they are wannabe gurus/masters/saints. These are the most annoying members, and they eventually get called out and they stop posting here :wink:

The fact is if you are genuinely at an advanced stage of spiritual development, enlightened, special, “transcended the human condition” You wouldn’t be engaging in such idle chatter activities as posting on discussion forums online. You would have no need to argue and debate with strangers online. By posting here, you make it clear that you are in the same boat as us - and you and here to do what we are here to do - discuss Yoga.

Now I suggest drop the pretensions, humble yourself and come back down to Earth. You will certainly enjoy the forum then, and be able to discuss and debate Yoga and Yoga related issues with like minds.

#68

Suhas:

Sharing of spiritual experiences is fine as long as there is no moral to the story. Because that then is a conditioned speculation of an egoistic mind.

Yes, that sounds fair. Before you know it, it could radiate a “Im your guru”- or “Im enlightend and you are not”-moral. In those cases listeners will not see it as enthousiasm but rather as proudness.

#69

[QUOTE=sqz;81331]Suhas:

Yes, that sounds fair. Before you know it, it could radiate a “Im your guru”- or “Im enlightend and you are not”-moral. In those cases listeners will not see it as enthousiasm but rather as proudness.[/QUOTE]

It predisposes someone to missing the point.

#70

surya deva, nobody and others: you all have turned this thread a very interesting one.

I think it contains great guidelines for a lot of people.