[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81215]I took the advise of one sadhu I met in India who told me to accept the scriptures as my guru, all the techniques and knowledge I need to know is in the scripture - I don’t need a guru. He also added, that ethereal masters will help me and nudge me along the way, perhaps by not making them visible to me, but subtly pushing me along as long as I put the sincere effort in.[/QUOTE]
smart sadhu
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81215]Unfortunately, modern day India is not ancient India. The India that was steeped in dharmic culture, Yoga, Vedanta and Sanskrit started dying 5000 years ago with the onset of the Kaliyuga age. At that time India was 80% bigger than it is today and was a global center of learning, wisdom, culture science and technology. Around 600BCE or so India fell quite badly to foreign invasions from the Persians, the Greeks, the Huns, the Scythians, the Kushans - it was in fact a constant war zone and fragmented into hundreds of kingdoms constantly at war with each other. Then by the later middle ages the Mughals subjugated much of India, destroyed hundreds of thousands of its temples, burnt down its universities and schools. Then in the modern age what was left of India’s dharmic culture was eradicated and its memory erased by the British by abolishing its traditional education system and replacing Sanskrit with English.
The current generations of Indians are only Indians in name, but otherwise there is nothing remotely Indian about them.
I made the same naive mistake as you did of thinking I will be able to find the glorious ancient India still in India, perhaps in the Himalayas. Unfortunately the cynicism of all Indians I met who I asked about for genuine gurus and spiritual masters was correct, they are too rare to find, in fact close to impossible to find. As I said I consulted with many swamis, gurus, pandits and did not find a single one worthy - I found many charlatans, many corrupt ones and many naive ones. Even the Sivananda Ashram where I expected to find genuine masters, I instead found dogmatic monks - I might as well had been in Church 
After returning from India I made my decision that I will do this by myself without any formal guru. I took the advise of one sadhu I met in India who told me to accept the scriptures as my guru, all the techniques and knowledge I need to know is in the scripture - I don’t need a guru. He also added, that ethereal masters will help me and nudge me along the way, perhaps by not making them visible to me, but subtly pushing me along as long as I put the sincere effort in.[/QUOTE]
See, now I am understanding why you said those things you did before. We are both on the ‘same page’ here now (which is nice).
Yeah, I agree the Shivananda Ashram is too ‘dogmatic’ but then again, tell me which Asram isn’t?
I didn’t start up there, you know. I started at the Self Realisation Fellowship (Swami Yogananda)…then I was at the Satyananda Ashram for a while, before finally meeting my ex who was staying there and was a disciple of Shivananda.
Eventually, I came back to the SRF through the work of Shri Yukteshwar Giri in his calculation of the duration of the Yugas in accordance with the Procession of the Celestial Equinoxes.
*I just purchased "Awake In The Cosmic Dream by Swami Yogananda I haven’t seen or heard in about 25 years.
I don’t look at the ‘guru’, I look at the ‘message’.
If we all become like Dattatreya, how can there be ‘false gurus’?
All ashrams I went too were dogmatic, and full of angry and competitive people. Some of them I went to were Sivananda ashram, Kailash Ashram, Dayananda Ashram. I also went to Sriaurobindo Ashram in Delhi and while that was not dogmatic, I found it too be too vague and wishy and washy.
I have lost love for the ashram thing now, though may in the future consider the Bihar school of Yoga, as that is the only ashram and spiritual organization I actually respect now, because of reading their publications. I was considering their sanyasa course. However, to be honest I think I could just practice their techniques from their books without formally doing the course.
I have lost respect for Yogananda and SRF to be honest. I think Yogananda sold out Yoga to the West to get acceptance in the West by marketing it as esoteric Christianity, talking about Christ consciousness, telling stories about Jesus being in India and really overdoing the ascended masters and miracle stories. I find it hard to trust what he writes now. The so-called Sri Yukeshtwar discovering the true Yuga calender and trying to match it up with the procession of the equinox is another point where he sold out, as obviously the actual Yuga calender promised a Kaliyuga of some 427,000 years remaining, which is far too long for Western sensibilities to wait for a golden age - so he shortened it dramatically to accommodate them. And also concocted stories how the previous kaliyuga had ended and we were now moving into the dwarpar yuga with the invention of the electric light bulb.
Yogananda very cleverly marketed Yoga to fit Christian beliefs, eschatology and values. He even diluted traditional tantra techniques. He was perhaps the first Yoga salesman to start this commercializing of Yoga and turning it into a business by selling Yoga lessons through mail order at rather costly prices.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81232]
I have lost love for the ashram thing now, though may in the future consider the Bihar school of Yoga, as that is the only ashram and spiritual organization I actually respect now, because of reading their publications. I was considering their sanyasa course. [/QUOTE]
That’s 'sposed to be very good from what I have heard.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81232]I have lost respect for Yogananda and SRF to be honest. I think Yogananda sold out Yoga to the West to get acceptance in the West by marketing it as esoteric Christianity, talking about Christ consciousness, telling stories about Jesus being in India and really overdoing the ascended masters and miracle stories. I find it hard to trust what he writes now. The so-called Sri Yukeshtwar discovering the true Yuga calender and trying to match it up with the procession of the equinox is another point where he sold out, as obviously the actual Yuga calender promised a Kaliyuga of some 427,000 years remaining, which is far too long for Western sensibilities to wait for a golden age - so he shortened it dramatically to accommodate them. And also concocted stories how the previous kaliyuga had ended and we were now moving into the dwarpar yuga with the invention of the electric light bulb.[/QUOTE]
Can’t be any worse than the Mayan ‘end of world’ theory and date to which all that miraculously coincided with either. lulz
That date saw a few personal changes in my life and brought the ‘new world’ just one tiny step closer for me, so it’s all good.
I was meant to find out all that stuff.
In modern times the the spiritual teachers that I do respect are Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo. They are towering giants and like modern day Rishis. Their works have been very influential on me. However, I still consider Patanjali, Kapila and the ancient Risis and munis as my biggest inspiration. The genius of the ancient masters has never quite been equaled again.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81237]In modern times the the spiritual teachers that I do respect are Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo. They are towering giants and like modern day Rishis. Their works have been very influential on me. However, I still consider Patanjali, Kapila and the ancient Risis and munis as my biggest inspiration. The genius of the ancient masters has never quite been equaled again.[/QUOTE]
There will never BE another Adi Shankacharya. How could there ever be?
Having said that. It would be Ramana Maharishi if any for me.
Arunachala Shiva Aum
The Lord is the Lord.
why denigrate the works of those who endeavored to spread “the dharma” to the west? What are you helping? Certainly not their efforts.
Curious how you can judge a thing when you; are not the LORD; lack yogic insight due to your atheisitc leanings and non practice.
Your actions regarding this matter are BLACK.
Obscurating. Please see john 3:19 for further information.
“and we shall bring thee to the light - kicking and screaming.”
[QUOTE=Melchizedek;81240]The Lord is the Lord.
why denigrate the works of those who endeavored to spread “the dharma” to the west? What are you helping? Certainly not their efforts.
Curious how you can judge a thing when you; are not the LORD; lack yogic insight due to your atheisitc leanings and non practice.
Your actions regarding this matter are BLACK.
Obscurating. Please see john 3:19 for further information.
“and we shall bring thee to the light - kicking and screaming.”[/QUOTE]
Have you even read the whole thread and been able to see/understand why I have made these ‘claims’ you are still wishing for me to substantate?
Having realised I touched on some raw nerves and trod on some exposed toes, I apologised and backed off ages ago.
It would be nice if you would too, please.
*said with just a hint of ego. lol
Nobody,
He was talking to me. I can see why you were confused, his posts are usually incoherent rambles that one cannot make head or tails of anything he says. He does it deliberately to sound “mysterious” but he end up sounding like a retard. I advise you to put him on ignore, you are not going to miss anything lol (Psst: I have reported him already, not for this thread, but for the dozen others hes littered today with verbal excrement)
(sorry for doing this, but SD please read my messages, thanks.)
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81244]Nobody,
He was talking to me. I can see why you were confused, his posts are usually incoherent rambles that one cannot make head or tails of anything he says. He does it deliberately to sound “mysterious” but he end up sounding like a retard. I advise you to put him on ignore, you are not going to miss anything lol (Psst: I have reported him already, not for this thread, but for the dozen others hes littered today with excrement)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, thanks for that. I shall.
It’s just that when he said ‘you are not The Lord’ I thought he was talking to me because I am. 
Hence you could see the confusion that would create here, right? lulz
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81237]In modern times the the spiritual teachers that I do respect are Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo. They are towering giants and like modern day Rishis. Their works have been very influential on me. However, I still consider Patanjali, Kapila and the ancient Risis and munis as my biggest inspiration. The genius of the ancient masters has never quite been equaled again.[/QUOTE]
and the atheisitc westerners call the illumined authors “primitives”
What irony. It’s actually sickening - to me - if I spend time in thought on it.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81244]Nobody,
He was talking to me. I can see why you were confused, his posts are usually incoherent rambles that one cannot make head or tails of anything he says. He does it deliberately to sound “mysterious” but he end up sounding like a retard. I advise you to put him on ignore, you are not going to miss anything lol (Psst: I have reported him already, not for this thread, but for the dozen others hes littered today with verbal excrement)[/QUOTE]
I’m not surprised.
I wonder. Can you see what I can see about you?
No. You can’t.
I hope. And I say this sincerely because I like you. Even if you are being a smeagol - that you find you worth in some place other than the yog forums. That way you’ll stop being a dick.
You have a wonderful intellect - if only you’d put it towards the yog, and goodness. My what a power (for the heavens) you could become.
[QUOTE=Nobody;81239]There will never BE another Adi Shankacharya. How could there ever be?
Having said that. It would be Ramana Maharishi if any for me.
Arunachala Shiva Aum[/QUOTE]
I think of Adishakaracharya more as a great scholar and theologian, than a spiritual giant. I have read many of his works, or works that are attributed to him. I have never really got the impression of reading somebody who themselves are self-realized. His importance is over exaggerated in my opinion when he called the founder of Advaita, as he was after all a disciple of Gaudapada who turn was part of an older linage. While Shankara is indeed a towering figure in Advaita and a brilliant philosopher and mind, I am not sure if we could say he was also a Rishi.
Ramana Maharishi, I am rather neutral on. We would never have even heard of him if he had not been noticed by the West. Ramana Maharishi fits the Western stereotype of world denying Indians poor in wealth and rationality but rich in spirituality, so I can see why he was elevated so much in the Western media. Ramana Maharishi eschewed material possessions and rationality(calling tattva jnana as useless) He also seemed to have questionable character, as he was known to get quite angry.
You see as somebody who is very well versed in the Indic tradition I know that Indian culture is NOT world denying and does not promote poverty and eschew rationality. In fact on the contrary some of the most famous self-realized rishis were kings, such as Janaka, Krishna, Rama and even Buddha was born a prince. The Vedic risis extolled mundane scientific and material knowledge as much as they extolled spiritual knowledge. The Vedas even had separate branches for medicine, logic, astronomy and science and engineering.
India was an exceedingly wealthy country and this is why spirituality thrived there; spirituality does not thrive in poverty. Look at Modern India for your proof.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81250]I think of Adishakaracharya more as a great scholar and theologian, than a spiritual giant. I have read many of his works, or works that are attributed to him. I have never really got the impression of reading somebody who themselves are self-realized. His importance is over exaggerated in my opinion when he called the founder of Advaita, as he was after all a disciple of Gaudapada who turn was part of an older linage. While Shankara is indeed a towering figure in Advaita and a brilliant philosopher and mind, I am not sure if we could say he was also a Rishi.
Ramana Maharishi, I am rather neutral on. We would never have even heard of him if he had not been noticed by the West. Ramana Maharishi fits the Western stereotype of world denying Indians poor in wealth and rationality but rich in spirituality, so I can see why he was elevated so much in the Western media. Ramana Maharishi eschewed material possessions and rationality(calling tattva jnana as useless) He also seemed to have questionable character, as he was known to get quite angry.
You see as somebody who is very well versed in the Indic tradition I know that Indian culture is NOT world denying and does not promote poverty and eschew rationality. In fact on the contrary some of the most famous self-realized rishis were kings, such as Janaka, Krishna, Rama and even Buddha was born a prince. The Vedic risis extolled mundane scientific and material knowledge as much as they extolled spiritual knowledge. The Vedas even had separate branches for medicine, logic, astronomy and science and engineering.
India was an exceedingly wealthy country and this is why spirituality thrived there; spirituality does not thrive in poverty. Look at Modern India for your proof.[/QUOTE]
Very intersting perspective. I shall ponder upon it. Thank you.
I have pondered upon it and on this thread in total.
I [I]also[/I] take the scientific, analytical approach. I am a Jnani anyway and if I can be ‘accused’ of anything, it’s just being that.
…and I have an endless love for Nataraja and yes, it shows too much. Meh, I let it. lol
I also think too much, I know. This little exercise and subsequent meditation on what I was meant to learn here, took me back to another one of my teachers, Socrates.
Yeah, you can see where this is all going…Adi Shankaracharya, and now Socrates…the pattern emerges…
Well, his final words and epitaph reads like this:
“All that I know, is that I know nothing”.
That’s when Bhakti takes over…that’s the ‘Leap of Faith’. We can never really ‘know’ anything. We can pretend we do and that’s all we really do, don’t we?
Yes, I have had ‘spiritual experiences’ (many of them). Yes, others have had ‘spiritual experiences’ (many of them). I can talk about them as a form of amusement and I can let them become a ‘self-fulfilling prophecy’ which is also a very fun thing to do, but that gets boring after a while - I actually got bored with it quite quickly). lulz
In the end, I know what I know. Is it the ultimate knowledge? How the hell would I know how to tell you even if it was?
I also feel what I feel. Is it genuine? am I just not ‘in love with love’ or just my ‘romanticised notion of God’ well, you [I]bet[/I] I am but that’s just the beginning of it. Where it ends? Well, it just doesn’t.
Do I also realise I am totally stuck here? yes.
Do I want to be stuck here? yes. Here is nice.
To me it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself to be honest. Good luck with that 
That’s when Bhakti takes over…that’s the ‘Leap of Faith’. We can never really ‘know’ anything. We can pretend we do and that’s all we really do, don’t we?
No leap of faith is required, what you need is conviction which will come out of Jnana. I recall a pandit telling me in India how many people get Bhakti and Jnana the other way around - you cannot have bhakti without Jnana. Jnana gives you the conviction which turns into bhakti.
A lot of people who begin with Bhakti rather than Jnana end up simply justifying any belief they want, and they fall badly later when they start to see flaws in their beliefs.
I tend to shy away from belief for that very reason. There are grand truths that are more spectacular than common held beliefs.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;81294]
No leap of faith is required, what you need is conviction which will come out of Jnana. I recall a pandit telling me in India how many people get Bhakti and Jnana the other way around - you cannot have bhakti without Jnana. Jnana gives you the conviction which turns into bhakti.
A lot of people who begin with Bhakti rather than Jnana end up simply justifying any belief they want, and they fall badly later when they start to see flaws in their beliefs.[/QUOTE]
I know this already. I started off with Jnana. I always do, until that no longer serves my purpose.
My saying that knowledge has limitations but belief does not, is a direct affront to the human mind anyway. lol
I really don’t need to convince anybody when I have convinced myself and one day, I will outline my whole philosophy for you.
If this is only an illusion too (which it is anyway), it’s no greater lie than the one everybody else is living isn’t it?
I will say that without belief, Bhakti yoga isn’t Bhakti yoga and this is a Yoga forum.
If you (or anybody else) wants to ‘test’ me on this, I really don’t mind. I’d be more than happy to oblige.
All I would ask people to do, is to read all the other posts I have made on the forum in the last few days as well.
Please do this and maybe you will understand me a little better. Thank you and peace.