Existence Of The Soul


#21

[QUOTE=Juniper;75119]Yes, this is an interesting reference! Thank you for taking the time to share! Only other question remains is can this be proven(can this be experienced?)[/QUOTE]

This is what self-realization is all about. Human life gives this unique facility, other forms of life don’t. :stuck_out_tongue:

There are different methods to achieve self-realization. Basically, there are four yoga paths known as karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga or astanga-yoga and bhakti-yoga, and all of them, if practiced properly, should lead you to experiencing yourself as the soul beyond all material coverings and concepts.
I am myself practicing bhakti-yoga, so my experiences and insights are mainly in this field.


#22

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;75128]Well, exactly, you do not actually observe yourself. You observe a reflection of your body. In like manner when you introspect, you still do not observe yourself, you observe your mind. You never really observe the observer.[/QUOTE]

Yoga goes beyond body and mind. Patanjali says in the yoga sutras:

nirvicara-vaisaradye dhyatma-prasadah

“Upon attaining the clarity of nirvicara samadhi, there is lucidity of the inner self.” (Yoga Sutras 1.47)


#23

The mind imagines it plays a part in the process. Human consciousness certainly appears to be at a level unique to other earthly creatures, so called self-realization (natural state) seems to be a spontaneous occurrence in realization, the yoga?s attempt to clear the way, prevent interference from oneself for a happening, the mere fact one has interest in exploring true inner nature may be the essential factor towards the indescribable state of being, not being, beyond being. Minds imagine they play a part in the process, 7 billion different likes/dislikes.


#24

Aksara,

I am interested in bhakti-yoga . Would you be so kind as to
share your experiences and insights in this field?


#25

Thanks Melchizedek for sharing this information! A few of the techniques which you have described (mudras, pranayam, exercise) is the norm for me. Will have to try the “Parlor Trick” you have posted.


#26

[QUOTE=Juniper;75154]Aksara,

I am interested in bhakti-yoga . Would you be so kind as to
share your experiences and insights in this field?[/QUOTE]

Bhakti-yoga, the yoga of love and devotion, is a living tradition, which is described in ancient scriptures like the Bhagavad-gita, the Upanisads and the Puranas. Bhakti-yoga is not a belief, it is a science. It does not belong to any religious order or philosophical system. Bhakti is a universal principle and it is not limited to a temple, church, mosque or any institution.
Bhakti-yoga unleashes your power to love unconditionally. The power of love is so much stronger than everything else that exists. We can renounce everything, but we can never live without love.
The missing point, however, is to where to repose our love so that we won?t get frustrated. Bhakti-yoga teaches us how to connect with the innermost of our heart and repose our loving propensity in our origin, in God. If we really want to transform our lives, we should not go for a stale, peaky kind of love, but we need intense love, the overwhelming love of Jesus Christ, Mother Teresa and Haridas Thakur. We may think this is not possible for us, but actually prema, love for God, is already situated in the heart of all of us, and bhakti-yoga has the potential to fully reawaken it.
This is of cause a gradual process. But it is very practical, everyone can do it, whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever you do. You can utilize your natural propensities and interests to apply the practices of bhakti-yoga.

If someone is interested I could say something about the practices or other aspects of bhakti-yoga in another post.


#27

[QUOTE=Aksara;75177]Bhakti-yoga, the yoga of love and devotion, is a living tradition, which is described in ancient scriptures like the Bhagavad-gita, the Upanisads and the Puranas. Bhakti-yoga is not a belief, it is a science. It does not belong to any religious order or philosophical system. Bhakti is a universal principle and it is not limited to a temple, church, mosque or any institution.
Bhakti-yoga unleashes your power to love unconditionally. The power of love is so much stronger than everything else that exists. We can renounce everything, but we can never live without love.
The missing point, however, is to where to repose our love so that we won?t get frustrated. Bhakti-yoga teaches us how to connect with the innermost of our heart and repose our loving propensity in our origin, in God. If we really want to transform our lives, we should not go for a stale, peaky kind of love, but we need intense love, the overwhelming love of Jesus Christ, Mother Teresa and Haridas Thakur. We may think this is not possible for us, but actually prema, love for God, is already situated in the heart of all of us, and bhakti-yoga has the potential to fully reawaken it.
This is of cause a gradual process. But it is very practical, everyone can do it, whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever you do. You can utilize your natural propensities and interests to apply the practices of bhakti-yoga.

If someone is interested I could say something about the practices or other aspects of bhakti-yoga in another post.[/QUOTE]

I’m interested in addition to the others.


#28

I am interested as well. Please post something about the practices and aspects of bhakti yoga. I do use mantras on a daily basis as part of my practice.

Melchizedek, the extreme bliss,and peace I have experienced when reaching that “inner being” is a wonderous moment, however, unless I keep up an intense practice the peace, joy, and well-being are gone. Perhaps in time the bliss will remain permanently once deeper levels of consciousness are reached.


#29

Yes, Ray 7 billion likes and dislikes. Minds imagine many different ways.

Warm Regards!


#30

[QUOTE=Juniper;75210]I am interested as well. Please post something about the practices and aspects of bhakti yoga. I do use mantras on a daily basis as part of my practice.

Melchizedek, the extreme bliss,and peace I have experienced when reaching that “inner being” is a wonderous moment, however, unless I keep up an intense practice the peace, joy, and well-being are gone. Perhaps in time the bliss will remain permanently once deeper levels of consciousness are reached.[/QUOTE]

Intensity? I hope you are not practicing intensly but rather just dilligently with a present mind.

Intensity I equate to sweating, grunting, moaning, breathing hard, and labor pains. Many times these are not pleasant.


#31

Ha,ha,ha, :stuck_out_tongue: Yes, diligently or diligence is a better word to use since the use of intense sounds very unpleasant. Thanks for pointing this out!:wink:


#32

But there is an aspect of intensity, but it should not be hard.

The manager of the Tampa Bay Rays was quoted one day as saying …

“try easier”


#33

[QUOTE=Juniper;75210]I am interested as well. Please post something about the practices and aspects of bhakti yoga. I do use mantras on a daily basis as part of my practice.[/QUOTE]

It seems that bhakti-yoga is something like a hidden diamond. It could enrich so many people’s lives, but unfortunately it is either misrepresented or presented in a way that makes it difficult for most of us to relate to.

Here is a 5 min video with someone explaining the basics of bhakti so much better than I can. If you look around a little bit on the site you will also find descriptions of basic practices.

When I was young I was always thinking there must be something wrong in this world, especially the way we deal with each other. So much coldness and ignorance in relationships, so much competition and fight, even murder and even war. People hurt each other, harm each other, or at least are careless about the suffering of others. And ? how strange - my feeling was, that in most cases we don’t really want to be like that. We want to be in harmony with each other and the world. We want loving relationships, we want people to be happy.
Later I came across a passage in the bible called 1 Corinthians 13. I realized that what I had found there was what I was always looking for. Here it was ? something like pure unconditional unselfish love existed. Its characteristics are described in that passage. But when I told my friends about it they didn’t agree. They told me no, no, no…this is unreal, love is not like that. This is idealistic, you have to be realistic otherwise you will be disappointed. But I thought what the bible says is the definition of love. What we commonly call love in our life experiences is actually a completely different thing, it should not be called love at all, it should be given another name.
Later I got into contact with the wisdom from India, the difference between the eternal soul and the temporary body, different processes for realizing that difference, and ultimately bhakti-yoga.
The two most basic practices of bhakti-yoga are sravanam (hearing) and kirtanam (chanting). Hearing devotional stories about experiences of great souls and exchanges between them softens and soothes our hearts. Genuine bhakti stories remind us of our internal identity. As the soul is eternal its identity is also unchanging. In material life we take on so many different identities, but they are just superficial designations. Identification with our bodies and minds makes us forgetful about the person we really are, the pure soul. Hearing bhakti stories helps us regain our memories. No one will have to prove to us what our internal identity is, we will find it naturally, and we will feel at home again, and find peace and happiness just being what we are. Sravanam can also mean hearing the philosophy recorded in the scriptures in order to clear up the many misconceptions about life that bewilder us.
Kirtanam is about to become very famous. Yoga schools integrate it into their practices and there are kirtan festivals and celebrations springing up everywhere around the world. Spiritual songs and mantras sung together with like-minded people accompanied by musical instruments have such an incredible spiritual power that they can immediately give you realizations about your nature as a pure soul. In one of my first kirtan experiences I attained such an elevated and blissful state of consciousness that I almost became unaware of my body. I only noticed that fact in a break between two sessions when I suddenly again felt the strain of a backache that had already troubled me for a few days. Now it was difficult to sit on the floor and be relaxed. The next kirtan session started and I was soon lifted up again to the same state of blissfulness and completely forgot about my bodily pains. For me it was the proof that I am not my body, and that I can disconnect from it when I am completely absorbed in pure spiritual activities on the level of the soul.
Kirtanam can also refer to the individual chanting of mantras, which is also called japa meditation. I do this as my daily practice, and I am singing with others whenever I can.


#34

[QUOTE=Aksara;75285]It seems that bhakti-yoga is something like a hidden diamond. It could enrich so many people’s lives, but unfortunately it is either misrepresented or presented in a way that makes it difficult for most of us to relate to.

Here is a 5 min video with someone explaining the basics of bhakti so much better than I can. If you look around a little bit on the site you will also find descriptions of basic practices.

When I was young I was always thinking there must be something wrong in this world, especially the way we deal with each other. So much coldness and ignorance in relationships, so much competition and fight, even murder and even war. People hurt each other, harm each other, or at least are careless about the suffering of others. And ? how strange - my feeling was, that in most cases we don’t really want to be like that. We want to be in harmony with each other and the world. We want loving relationships, we want people to be happy.
Later I came across a passage in the bible called 1 Corinthians 13. I realized that what I had found there was what I was always looking for. Here it was ? something like pure unconditional unselfish love existed. Its characteristics are described in that passage. But when I told my friends about it they didn’t agree. They told me no, no, no…this is unreal, love is not like that. This is idealistic, you have to be realistic otherwise you will be disappointed. But I thought what the bible says is the definition of love. What we commonly call love in our life experiences is actually a completely different thing, it should not be called love at all, it should be given another name.
Later I got into contact with the wisdom from India, the difference between the eternal soul and the temporary body, different processes for realizing that difference, and ultimately bhakti-yoga.
The two most basic practices of bhakti-yoga are sravanam (hearing) and kirtanam (chanting). Hearing devotional stories about experiences of great souls and exchanges between them softens and soothes our hearts. Genuine bhakti stories remind us of our internal identity. As the soul is eternal its identity is also unchanging. In material life we take on so many different identities, but they are just superficial designations. Identification with our bodies and minds makes us forgetful about the person we really are, the pure soul. Hearing bhakti stories helps us regain our memories. No one will have to prove to us what our internal identity is, we will find it naturally, and we will feel at home again, and find peace and happiness just being what we are. Sravanam can also mean hearing the philosophy recorded in the scriptures in order to clear up the many misconceptions about life that bewilder us.
Kirtanam is about to become very famous. Yoga schools integrate it into their practices and there are kirtan festivals and celebrations springing up everywhere around the world. Spiritual songs and mantras sung together with like-minded people accompanied by musical instruments have such an incredible spiritual power that they can immediately give you realizations about your nature as a pure soul. In one of my first kirtan experiences I attained such an elevated and blissful state of consciousness that I almost became unaware of my body. I only noticed that fact in a break between two sessions when I suddenly again felt the strain of a backache that had already troubled me for a few days. Now it was difficult to sit on the floor and be relaxed. The next kirtan session started and I was soon lifted up again to the same state of blissfulness and completely forgot about my bodily pains. For me it was the proof that I am not my body, and that I can disconnect from it when I am completely absorbed in pure spiritual activities on the level of the soul.
Kirtanam can also refer to the individual chanting of mantras, which is also called japa meditation. I do this as my daily practice, and I am singing with others whenever I can.[/QUOTE]

So many unhappy people, angry, bitter at their own state of affairs channel thier anger and hate into others.

If there is anything we need a little more of its love.

Sometimes, when I think of the most high
I start to cry.


#35

To get to the root of the mind and all thoughts. is to simply come upon your heart.
The condition of the mind rests on your head. like ive said. it is not the mind that is angry it is the heart. for you are not angry because you think it. you are angry because you feel it!
SO. As it has been said. All spiritual progress depends upon the heart!
Meaning you can think all you like! But you will get no where!
You must work with the feelings directly!!
THAT is bahkti yoga!
For the Master of bahkti is truly master of his heart!
the bahkti truly has directed his feelings in the right way!

kabir was the lords lover. He loved the lord with great intensity. He was a slave to that intensity.
Know that the heart fluctuates between rest. and intensity. Dictate the emotion that intensity lives within! Dictate where the heart finds rests.
The man who is master of his heart, is master of his soul.


#36

I also believe that we all have soul in our bodies and at the time of death it will leave our body. This soul runs our body like suppose we made one toy which has everything but to run it we need battery. Similarly soul works for our bodies.


#37

[QUOTE=Aksara;75285]

When I was young I was always thinking there must be something wrong in this world, especially the way we deal with each other. So much coldness and ignorance in relationships, so much competition and fight, even murder and even war. People hurt each other, harm each other, or at least are careless about the suffering of others. [/QUOTE]

how great the rest of your post is!

And I will say this in response to the above. We were once animals. The plan is one of ascencsion. What you experience, the hate, strife, competion, dog eat dog, murder and war is the direct result of residual impressions (samskaras) from our time spent in the animal realms.


#38

and once you have in your possesion the most precious of the incarnations - the human experiece - because that phenomenon is endowed the the capacity for hihger reason - unlike animals. . The human is capable of reason, discrimination, the ascertation of the truth, the human can figure it out, if the human yearns to figure it out - the human can.

The guides have, because the guides do, indicate the many ways that the human endowed with his logic can deduce the truth of things, and it is this deduction that propells the now endowed human being towards thier discovery.

Such isthe reason for the love of mystery. For the Lord in infinte wisdom has set forth - ye shall discover me & and in so doing ye shall discover you.


#39

Does the soul exist?

All objects are created and then they exist; soul just exists. Hence, all objects are finite, but the soul is infinite. Soul is complete within itself and the ‘creator’ of all the existing objects.

If human beings have a “soul” where is it within the human being? I have heard people say the soul is located near the heart.

We need to give up the compulsions of human mind and its captive, perception. For example, one object is ‘within’ or without another object. But to a subtle object a gross object can be porus and thus it can be within as well as without. Take another example. Is fragrance within a flower or without?

Soul is so subtle, it is not even matter or perceivable. There is no reason for it to be located in the context of the physical body. Soul has come first and the body followed, not the other way around. So, the soul is not “in” the body, soul has chosen to perceive through a body, that it does by driving all the body functions till the term of the finite body expires. Soul, just continues to exist.


#40

Look at the worldly competing, fighting, aggressive people.
They belief in the soul, in the god. They live in a passions.
It is a false soul.

The real soul is self-creation. It must be created by your own effort.
Meditation is a process of a soul-creation.
Soul creates by your meditation, love.
Not by belief in it, but by meditation.