Existence Of The Soul


#41

[QUOTE=samadhi;77529]The real soul is self-creation. It must be created by your own effort.
Meditation is a process of a soul-creation.
Soul creates by your meditation, love.
Not by belief in it, but by meditation.[/QUOTE]

And even than it?s a happening of it?s own, no one is in control.


#42

It is possible to sense what you are saying, but the words are confusing.

Of course, those who fight or kill in the name of god and demand blind faith, make one blind every which way, to serve an agenda of a few. But the god principle is not a monopoly of a few. God is what we are born with, born from and die into.

Soul is god’s perceptible aspect, but is still infinite and wholesome. Our ego compels us to believe that we all are individuals and each has a soul. Soul cannot be fragmented. In fact, soul allows us a way to realize a common thread running through the whole humanity and for that matter, through everything. That’s why perhaps you are saying the same thing but calling it soul-creation rather than the proper term soul-realization.


#43

[QUOTE=samadhi;77529]Look at the worldly competing, fighting, aggressive people.
They belief in the soul, in the god. They live in a passions.
It is a false soul.

The real soul is self-creation. It must be created by your own effort.
Meditation is a process of a soul-creation.
Soul creates by your meditation, love.
Not by belief in it, but by meditation.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t seem possible to be separated from our true inner nature although there can be an obstructed perception resulting from veils of maya. Meditation is only one of the many ways to attempt to bring oneself in union (yoke) from that which you’ve never been separated. In general "[B][I]samadhi[/I][/B]” your post seems to have a sense of spirituality = Truth, however considering unity of Absolute* being in everything, than nothing is happening that shouldn’t be happening, judgments are illusions of the human mind, yes those who think they know what’s best for others have historically proven dangerous often leading to suffering. We’re constantly exposed to likes/dislikes of our personal dispositions but if one experiments being aware of these likes/dislikes without attraction/aversion simply observing and responding as spontaneously as possible in the moment then the minds overactive filters seem to become less involved.

*(Brahma, The Divine, God, Self, whatever word you like to insert here?)


#44

What happens to the “soul” once physical death occurs?

The ideas of the soul or spirit leaving the body and going to an astral world are these fairy tales and wishful thinking for immortality? I think so. Since the beginning of human existence the ideas of immortality and an afterlife are concepts formulated to satisfy “the need for a purpose” of human existence and the primitive belief systems of world religions.

What if death is the same as the deep and dreamless sleep where nothing exists? All is still. There is nothing in that state to exist — . No afterlife, no heavens, nor hells, just stillness-----


#45

It seems everything and nothing operates against the backdrop of stillness, are we not already there? Is not the stillness you speak of unreachable by words and the minds consciousness; the supreme state, a state of absolute silence and stillness, one may call it GOD, ABSOLUTE, BRAHMA, DIVINE, TRUE INNER NATURE, etc., etc. illusionary names formed by the mind, finger pointing to the moon, a nameless condition of an effortless, countless, timeless, spaceless and spontaneous state beyond being and not being…anything other than pure indefinable stillness trivializes the experience, even this expression in words fails miserably indicating there may be an opposite or something to be gained or lost.


#46

Ray,

Can you rephrase what you mean? It sounds as though you answer with questions and riddles. I understand the part of mind giving names to things and point to the sky and say “moon”.

Yes, the stillness I speak of is unreachable/ unattainable by words or mind’s consciousness. When all is still. (Breath, mind, body )nothing exists---- timeless----spaceless----no you me or I. No words exist.


#47

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;77554]It doesn’t seem possible to be separated from our true inner nature although there can be an obstructed perception resulting from veils of maya. Meditation is only one of the many ways to attempt to bring oneself in union (yoke) from that which you’ve never been separated.
… , however considering unity of Absolute* being in everything, than nothing is happening that shouldn’t be happening, judgments are illusions of the human mind, yes those who think they know what’s best for others have historically proven dangerous often leading to suffering.

*(Brahma, The Divine, God, Self, whatever word you like to insert here?)[/QUOTE]

If absolut is everywhere, why one should make asana, you are already part if
Absolut ? Drop this nonsense like meditations.

Asana is an effort.
Stop any meditations. We are already divine.

Why so much misery in the world ?
Violence is also a part of absolute ?

You say,
>>>considering unity of Absolute* being in everything, than nothing is >>>happening that shouldn’t be happening,

If a buddha was not in struggle in search of enlightenment, there was no any buddha.

>>>judgments are illusions of the human mind
…mind helps you to go in inner journey.
…suffering helps you to go in search.

If there was no any suffering then what is the point of bliss, meditation, truth, samadhi ?

suffering are good lessons and teachers. They say do something !!!
Meditate, make asanas.


#48

[QUOTE=Juniper;77555]What happens to the “soul” once physical death occurs?

The ideas of the soul or spirit leaving the body and going to an astral world are these fairy tales and wishful thinking for immortality? I think so. Since the beginning of human existence the ideas of immortality and an afterlife are concepts formulated to satisfy “the need for a purpose” of human existence and the primitive belief systems of world religions.

What if death is the same as the deep and dreamless sleep where nothing exists? All is still. There is nothing in that state to exist — . No afterlife, no heavens, nor hells, just stillness-----[/QUOTE]

Deep meditation is a death also.
If you are awake then you are awake.

It depends on where are you standing.

If you are dreaming, then you are dreaming.
If you are sleep, then you sleep.


#49

[QUOTE=Juniper;77576]Ray,

Can you rephrase what you mean? It sounds as though you answer with questions and riddles. I understand the part of mind giving names to things and point to the sky and say “moon”.

Yes, the stillness I speak of is unreachable/ unattainable by words or mind’s consciousness. When all is still. (Breath, mind, body )nothing exists---- timeless----spaceless----no you me or I. No words exist.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps anything other than stillness/silence is a response of ignorance, an attempt to describe the indescribable is simply poetry of the mind, nonsense, however here’s my attempt:

I have no direct experience with death (the collapse of this body/mind), however an innate sense resonates within me, seemingly self-evident therefore I ponder; it seems I arose from the so called stillness/silence and unto the stillness/silence I will recede i.e. what was I before I was born, since I do have direct experience with birth.

From the shoreline one can witness waves arising for brief moments then collapsing onto the beach and receding back into the vastness from which they came, from the surface waves may appear individual and separate but on a deeper level they can be seen not separate, perhaps the driving force of all spiritual seeking is the longing to return to the bliss of which we arose but are not separate. Each night I’m ready and willing to allow my consciousness to slip away into deep sleep without the least certainty of waking up and yet I accept the risk, no regard of coming back.


#50

[QUOTE=samadhi;77578]suffering are good lessons and teachers. They say do something !!! Meditate, make asanas.[/QUOTE]

By all means, if you feel compelled to do something, do it.


#51

Thanks Ray!

The silence / stillness experienced in deep meditation gives me some indication as to what it may be like when one enters the eternal sleep for which there is no returning. Nothing is individual or separate in this state.

Now I grasp the yogis meaning of merging into the Absolute / Shiva / whatever label (name) one chooses to call it. Yes, the waves look separate from up close yet they are all part of the same great ocean!

Thank you for helping me put this question to rest!

:cool:


#52

There are difference between sushupti and samadhi. And both are stillness.


#53

I think the one big difference is, sushupti is involuntary; samadhi is conscious.

We make a further mistake by equating consciouness with awareness. Being conscious is a state; being aware is a process We arrive in any state at will; we derrive awareness through attention, sensing and thought-making. That’s why we are aware of various states upto the state of dhyana, but not of samadhi in which we are only conscious.


#54

[QUOTE=samadhi;77911]There are difference between sushupti and samadhi. And both are stillness.[/QUOTE]

It does seem as though differences may be detectable even where definable explanations are not.

[B]“so called stillness/silence”[/B] was used previously since similarly to Truth’ there is no way to describe/define it however one might be able to recognizeuntruths’ and similarly one may be able to “reduce agitated movements and turn down the volume of noise”.

conscious, unconscious, subconscious, awareness all seem to be completely spontaneous states.


#55

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;77920]We make a further mistake by equating consciouness with awareness. Being conscious is a state; being aware is a process We arrive in any state at will; we derrive awareness through attention, sensing and thought-making. That’s why we are aware of various states upto the state of dhyana, but not of samadhi in which we are only conscious.[/QUOTE]

Pondering
Do not all three states of consciousnesses contain awareness and are not all of the consciousnesses simply awareness reflecting through the mind and does not this awareness arise spontaneously from the absolute, therefore is anything happening at will or is it all completely a spontaneous happening? Memory is the recorder of the mind operating in different degrees in only two states of consciousness, yet awareness is ever present in all three states.


#56

------- Absolutely-------


#57

Ray,

Perhaps we are saying the same thing, but using different words and hence, the confusion. For me, consciousness is life-force or primordial energy. One is conscious means one [U]is[/U] alive. Awareness that ‘one is alive’ is ‘knowing that one is conscious’ and knowing is a process.


#58

There is no Mind-Body-Spirit, ONLY Body & the Body is only part of the universe.


#59

English is a miserable language to communicate profound principles.

The word “soul” does not encapsulate what it actually infers. One must use the non-translatable word ‘atman’ to really get at the deeper meaning.

Abrahamics use the word “soul” but in their mythology, only humans have souls. Animals, inanimate objects, and others don’t have a ‘soul’. That is why the world is being raped and the new fad of ‘green movement’ is like a band-aid for a much bigger problem; one that is endemic to the abrahamic worldview.

Atman refers to the immutable substrate that is ever present in all things always. It is there during manifestation and it is there during the unmanifest periods as well.

The pancha-kOsA are what make an ‘individual’ or ‘jiva’. Thus, the Atman never “reincarnates” but the unique combination of the pancha-kOsA does; the vAsanAs are contained therein.

So, the word soul is a misnomer in Yoga. One has to refer to the Atman when discussing Yoga as the word soul and Atman are NOT interchangeable.


#60

Well-said.

Had the same dilemma while writing the book. There are several hurdles dealing with Sanskrit terms in English. Inadequate or simply wrong equivalent words is one, different historical and epistemological connotations of words is the other. Even spelling as ?Yoga? that makes people say ?yogaa? is not correct.

The dilemma is, should one stick to Sanskrit words that are non-translatable and in that process continue to alienate several English-speaking seekers or one could explain the difference between the two and give new (deeper ? wider) meaning to the English words which may soon be acceptable?

Personally, I prefer the latter.