Just curious.
Namaste,
Yes, I think what is most positive about this forum is that people here feel free to say and express themselves as they want. So before participating in this forum people already know what to expect here. Occasionally we lapse and use unduly harsh words, but for the most part the exchanges here are within limits. But it is true that in the religion forum the discussion is a lot more active and energetic and where you have such energy, episodes of violence will also take place. I mean look at the post count on the forum, it is the second highest on the forum and about 1000 posts ahead of the spirit forum. The most active thread in the Yoga forum history is “Yoga is Hinduism” at 1200+ posts. I think this is a really good space to grow. I have now become acceptant of insults, because I realise my religious views provoke people very strongly and powerfully, that their minds cannot help but react with violence. I try to do deal with this violence as maturely and sensibly as I can, but I am human so I do lapse from time to time and feel the need to respond with violence back.
Religion is always going to divide us, because it is so intimately tied with our worldview. This worldview, which Dwai says is a social categorical imperative, is how we view the world. So when you have another who has a polar opposite worldview - there is bound to be a clash. But yet religion is also the biggest force of unification says Swami Vivekananda. There is no force in this world that can unite a people together more powerful than religion - provided they share the same worldview.
Whether something good or bad comes from the religion forum, this is very subjective, but one thing we cannot deny: religion is a fact of human life.
David,
My personal comment is that this whole forum is full of agreemens and disagreements. It is thus a sound democratic platform. As far as this is concerned, it benefits a lot of people, in fact making a lot more critical of uncontested belief systems, teachings and such.
I joined the forum because Mukunda stiles set it up , I beleive , he was not here when I arrived , but some of his students still are and they resonate with kindness and wisdom , Im not sure it has had a positive or negative effect I probably spend more time with it than is healthy .I guess I was originally expecting more structual yoga and ayurveda subjects , perhaps it was once like this , still it wastes a few minutes in my valuable time , occasionally someone gives me a laugh , and very occasionally im touched by a posting.
There are times when the disagreements are palatable, but the bitterness with which they are delivered leaves a bad taste. But, then that’s only the first reaction. Pondering over why some people are so worked up at times, invariably takes me to realise that the molten lava is something else; deep within them that has nothing to do with the disagreement.
No positive has ever emerged unless negative is drawn to the surface and destroyed. It never comes to surface on its own. It needs churning, twisting and that is traumatic. Then, negative dosen’t show up as ‘negative’. Our thinking is designed to be very kind to our own negatives; while we are agitated at the hint of it in others.
Positive does not arise ‘on’ this forum; it arises ‘because’ of the forum. After all, we are for ourselves. Only “I” can change for better, if I want to. Speaking for myself, I have picked up several positives, by developing an indifference to the negatives. Forum is a melting pot, a process. As long as we let it happen it will continue to help those who want to be helped. When the custodians of the process indulge, that’s a yellow flag.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;57022]Speaking for myself, I have picked up several positives, by developing an indifference to the negatives.[/QUOTE]
There you go…sums it up nicely. I am still working on my desire to defend or denounce (strong crown chakra thing), but getting there. I will add that it does help keep certain discussions (bickering) out of the other sections.
Anything positive? Besides the racism and comments like
This is a good start Surya. I’ll contact A R Rahman so he can compose an upbeat score. [B]You and Friedrich practice your dance routines (who’s the stright guy?)[/B]. Leave everything to me and I’ll have you guys prancing down the red carpet come Oscar season.
[B]May have to change the old testament theme thing a bit. Violence is good, but can you find some sexy bits? Just try to resist casting any girls under 16. I’ve read about old Hindu men’s preference for marrying the young ones. Won’t go over well out here. Round up some lower caste filthy untouchable bastards to haul the equipment around on the cheap, and we’re set.[/B]
from supposedly “spiritual people”, it guess its fine.
I just wish that people would stop arguing about Indian history with Indians who know more Indian history than they will ever learn in their lives. Hearing retarded comments like “Hinduism is younger than Yoga because Hinduism was a term invented by British/Muslims/Persians,” “Ancient Indians were cannibals,” and “go back to persecuting evil white women in short skirts” is annoying. All that happens are arguments about the semantics of the word “Hinduism” and history of “Hinduism.”
Personally, I think Yoga Forums was a much better place before the current crowd showed up. The fact that you had to create this forum is a testament to that. To the extent it succeeds in keeping the rancorous and divisive arguments out of the regular forums, that’s a good thing. But you still have the guru wannabes dominating and, in my opinion driving good people away. It would be different if they knew what they’re talking about, but for the most part, they don’t. That’s not a good thing.
[QUOTE=Asuri;57816]Personally, I think Yoga Forums was a much better place before the current crowd showed up. The fact that you had to create this forum is a testament to that. To the extent it succeeds in keeping the rancorous and divisive arguments out of the regular forums, that’s a good thing. But you still have the guru wannabes dominating and, in my opinion driving good people away. It would be different if they knew what they’re talking about, but for the most part, they don’t. That’s not a good thing.[/QUOTE]
The reason SD and I are here is to educate you all about Hinduism and Indian history.
SD and I know our Indian history. Most of the other people on this forum don’t. That includes you. Don’t expect us to not get angry when people are repeatedly denying our history, dignity, and identity by spouting B.S such as “Hindus were cannibals,” “Yoga predated Hinduism,” and what not. Don’t expect us not to get angry when people like you love depicting Hinduism as nothing more than a casteist, illogical, primitive, and ritualistic religion that has beastly looking gods and goddesses.
This is the reason why people leave this section of the forums. They come here, can’t let go of the “Is Yoga Hinduism?” thread, and get trashed by SD and I. Why? Not because we are enlightened or wise but because we know our history. We simply state facts.
Well, I never thought much about Hindus at all, but if I were to base my opinion on the two of you, I’d have to say that Hindus are arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists, although Surya Deva has mellowed a little.
I am a Hindu. But my pride is rooted in my secular upbringing embracing myriad disparate thought-streams that finally merge into the infinite sea of humanity. I don’t understand Nietzsche and SD either in spite of my repeated efforts to do so. When I am enjoying some of their posts and marveling at their vast knowledge, suddenly stumble upon their weakness that deteriorates into senseless diatribe, pointless jesting and utter poverty of mind.
That make me wonder at times whether they are mere hoarders of knowledge and any self-realized truth is still missing. Knowledge overload is a dangerous state for its ability to hypnotize into believing that you can touch anything with the knowledge-wand and turn it into ‘dirt’ for emerging victorious in the process. If that is what is sought, that is what results. I wish they may soon realize that truth simply shines and doesn’t fight back, especially in a mere war of words.
Fortunately, I don’t have to rely only on Surya Deva and Nietzsche to form my opinions.
[QUOTE=Asuri;57906]Well, I never thought much about Hindus at all, but if I were to base my opinion on the two of you, I’d have to say that Hindus are arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists, although Surya Deva has mellowed a little.[/QUOTE]
And this is coming from the guy who thinks Indians only own Dunkin Donuts and 7-11’s? I am glad to know racism and supremacy in the West has not died out. It merely proves what I have been asserting this entire time. People like you are nothing more than mass murderers, who think their superior civilization gives them a prerogative to go out and “Christianize and civilize” the non-white world.
[B]This is precisely[/B] why we “arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists” are so infuriated. We are are sick and tired of being depicted as nothing more than ignorant, dirty, smelly, cow worshipping, curry eating, hairy idol worshipers with absolutely no intellect.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;57915]I am a Hindu. But my pride is rooted in my secular upbringing embracing myriad disparate thought-streams that finally merge into the infinite sea of humanity. I don’t understand Nietzsche and SD either in spite of my repeated efforts to do so. When I am enjoying some of their posts and marveling at their vast knowledge, suddenly stumble upon their weakness that deteriorates into senseless diatribe, pointless jesting and utter poverty of mind.
That make me wonder at times whether they are mere hoarders of knowledge and any self-realized truth is still missing. Knowledge overload is a dangerous state for its ability to hypnotize into believing that you can touch anything with the knowledge-wand and turn it into ‘dirt’ for emerging victorious in the process. If that is what is sought, that is what results. I wish they may soon realize that truth simply shines and doesn’t fight back, especially in a mere war of words.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I too was brought up in a secular environment and taught to respect all cultures.
However, I cannot and will not respect these Abrahamic religions, these humanity depreciating bastardizations of faith and worship.
Asking me to respect these religions is like asking me to respect a racist.
And lets face it, any true follower of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is a fundamentalist, supremacist, and a bigot.
It is these religions that are responsible for almost all the suffering in this world for these inherently bigoted ideologies allowed the West to rise to the top of the world by doing one thing over and over and over: exploiting others.
Lets face it Suhas: Christians and Muslims are destroying India as we speak. Our anti-Hindu government taxes Hindu temples to build more churches and mosques. They go around murdering Hindus, desecrating our religion, and spreading vitriolic propaganda. Look at how successful they are in Tamil Nadu, a state formerly hailed as the cradle of our brilliant philosophers and scientists! Almost daily I hear from my relatives and friends stories of how leaflets of “Accept Jesus or go to Hell” are repeatedly distributed across their towns and cities. Hindus must let of this false-ahimsa nonsense and campaign for reform and change!
All other cultures, faiths, and religions neither inferior or superior to one another. I am not like SD in that I think Hinduism is the greatest religion.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;57915]I am a Hindu. But my pride is rooted in my secular upbringing embracing myriad disparate thought-streams that finally merge into the infinite sea of humanity. I don’t understand Nietzsche and SD either in spite of my repeated efforts to do so. When I am enjoying some of their posts and marveling at their vast knowledge, suddenly stumble upon their weakness that deteriorates into senseless diatribe, pointless jesting and utter poverty of mind.
That make me wonder at times whether they are mere hoarders of knowledge and any self-realized truth is still missing. Knowledge overload is a dangerous state for its ability to hypnotize into believing that you can touch anything with the knowledge-wand and turn it into ‘dirt’ for emerging victorious in the process. If that is what is sought, that is what results. I wish they may soon realize that truth simply shines and doesn’t fight back, especially in a mere war of words.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect Suhas, and I believe I have said this before, you are too politically correct and though you claim to be Hindu, I never really see you defend this great religion against diatribes, insults, misrepresentations that are often made here by some members. I am sure you feel that you are showing yourself to be a superior and more morally cultivated Hindu by putting down us “lesser” Hindus, but with such uneven criticism where you criticise only one side and not the others who you may seek to appease, an intelligent person can see right through such secularism.
I wish they may soon realize that truth simply shines and doesn’t fight back
I think as a Hindu you need to look at the history of debate in our tradition. Adisankara did not think of it ill to go and destroy his opponents in debates and discussions. Are you greater than Adisankara
Hey Surya, can you check your PM’s. I have a few questions I need answered.
[QUOTE=Nietzsche;57940]And this is coming from the guy who thinks Indians only own Dunkin Donuts and 7-11’s? I am glad to know racism and supremacy in the West has not died out. It merely proves what I have been asserting this entire time. People like you are nothing more than mass murderers, who think their superior civilization gives them a prerogative to go out and “Christianize and civilize” the non-white world.
[B]This is precisely[/B] why we “arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists” are so infuriated. We are are sick and tired of being depicted as nothing more than ignorant, dirty, smelly, cow worshipping, curry eating, hairy idol worshipers with absolutely no intellect.[/QUOTE]
Don’t get your panties in a bunch, chump. You’re just like Surya Deva, so twisted up with hatred that you’re not really sure who or what you’re pissed off at. I really resent this ‘people like you’ crap. If you think I’m your enemy, you’re barking up the wrong tree, my runny nose, wet behind the ears, little hater buddy. And quit twisting my words, you punk. I didn’t say that Indians only own the Dunkin Donuts and 7 11’s, I said they own ALL of them. And I said it in the context that maybe there was a little resentment because of it, but not much, and that I wasn’t aware of any hate crimes against Indians. I don’t know of anybody who has a problem with the Indians who have come to the US. They are well respected here.
Oh yeah and by the way, you seem to have missed my point completely. I didn’t say that all Hindus are arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists, I said that YOU are, and that you are giving your people a bad name because of it, capiche?
Oh yeah, I watched Ice Road Truckers when they went to India. Man, you guys can’t drive. And you need to do something about those roads.
My intention was to describe how immensely informative pieces at the predictable turning points descend into personal attacks prompting me to give up on that thread. Attacks by anyone are deplorable. If people of other religions write ill I don’t like it, don’t read it - since I don’t know them. Hinduism as I understand is very secular, tolerent and respectful to others. You two appeared different Hindus and that was the reason of writing the post. Perhaps even that was a mistake not worth repeating.
It is not a ‘political’ correctness, perhaps it is ‘spiritual’ sincerity. There is no need to equate erring individuals with a system of faith. In “Accept Jesus or go to Hell”, the important thing I see is that Jesus didn’t say that. It is futile to dig into the dead past for evidence of others’ wrong-doings because if one cannot live the present with ability to overcome the discrimination like “I vs rest of the world” and “us vs them”, failure to do so is an invitation for the history to repeat. Then there is no learning. And learning cannot be forced down someone’s throat. It has to ‘happen’.
If you think I want to appease someone or to play ‘holier than thou’, that’s a perception I have no interest in correcting.
Oh yeah and by the way, you seem to have missed my point completely. I didn’t say that all Hindus are arrogant, egotistical, nasty little eggheads, bigots, haters, and BS artists, I said that YOU are, and that you are giving your people a bad name because of it, capiche?
I think the reverse is true for many Hindus on this board. I think we have given a rather empowering and strong message about Hindus are not to be messed with and we do actually have very strong view of our own. The (pseudo)secular, tolerant, all accepting, pacifist image of Hindus that has been forced down our throats in the 20th century that Suhas also got fed, is going to be replaced by the right image of the Hindu as a rational, objective and brutally honest being, who is not afraid to hold strong views of his own and nor is he afraid to destroy the views of others if need be. The irony is this, if anybody looks at our formal scientific and intellectual culture in the past, Hindus were indeed very brutal when it came to going to every rational measure in proving the others viewpoint was absurd. Adisankara actually went around the country looking for debates with Buddhists, in order to get rid of Buddhism. He is considered by Hindus to be the most influencial philosopher and personality since Buddha.
I hope many Hindus and many non-Hindus alike will become very familiar with the resurgence of the strong, take no nonsense from anybody and intelligent Hindu. There are hundreds of millions of us today around the world. We are becoming less tolerant to Abrahamic religions after realising that no matter how much we try to make peace with them, they have no other desire but to destroy us. What originally bought us to this forum was first of all the absence of a vocal Hindu presence on this forum and seconly the misconceptions and prejudiced statements against Hinduism vis-a-vis Yoga. Our presence is crucial on this forum - because we tell the other side of the story - we represent our own position based on our own history, heritage and culture. We have so much knowledge in Hinduism and India, that we are freely sharing it and giving many on this forum an opportunity to learn about our culture authentically - than the (mis)representation of our cultures by the West.
We have set the records straight on many issues on this forum: We have destroyed the myth of Western superiority; we have exposed the Abrahamic religions; we have settled the score on the caste system demonstrating that no casteism as an endemic problem ever existed in India prior to the British and it was due to the British that the current rigid birth-based system was solidfied; we have demonstrated with overwhelming use of evidence that Yoga and Hinduism are inseparable and one cannot practice Yoga without having a Hindu context; we have shown how India was for most of world history the most richest and prosperous nation in the world prior to the British invasion, and made people aware of just how vast our contributions are to science and shaping world civilisation.
We have made it very clear on this forum the modern Hindu is a proud Hindu and we will not take any BS anymore. If anybody spreads any kind of false information about us, we will get “nasty” Play nice with us, and we’ll play nice with you.
P.S Asuri, you are the last person that should complain about being nasty to another person. I have seen you been nasty to many people, including myself, and recently you know who…