Have I reached a dead end?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi,

First of all let me mention some details about the kind of physical workouts I have been doing for the past thirteen years.

[U]1998 (Age: 16)[/U]

I joined a gym nearby & started a combination of free hand exercises, multigym, weights & yoga. The yoga poses which I used to do included

sarbangasana, yogmudra, pawanmuktasana, bhujangasana, dhanurasana, joshtiasana,

I continued doing these for about six months but didn’t continue them anymore because at that age all I was interested in was building muscle mass:confused:

[U]1999-2003[/U]

During this period I was following a vigorous bodybuilding regime which included lifting heavy weights for about 2 hrs per day. I ate a lot during this time which made me not only big in a muscular way but also increased my body fat a lot. Due to some personal problems I faced severe depression & often palpitations (heavy pounding of the heart).

[U]2004-2008[/U]

I really did no workout whatsoever during these four years. There was still some muscle mass left which I had gained during the previous years but muscle strength decreased.
My depression, by now had become pretty chronic. I also experienced anxiety, panic attacks. In short, I was in hell.

[U]2009 - Present[/U]

By now I had realized that weight training is not the correct way to stay fit either physically or mentally & yoga is the best path. I started practicing from the end of 2008 and still doing it 7 days a week.

This what I have been doing for 4 years now ----

Mon/Wed/Fri -----Pranayam

Bhastrika 15 mins
Anulom Vilom 15 mins
Kpalbhati 15 mins

Tue/Thurs/Sat ----Asanas

Some Free Hands for WarmUp

pawanmuktasana, Salvasana, Ardhamatsendrasana, bhujangasana, dhanurasana, Naukasana, Ardhachakrasna, Shaktichalani Mudra.

All asanas 3 sets each.

[B]The problem is, although I have been practising yoga for more than 3 years now all I can do are the above mentioned “basic poses”. I want to do advanced poses . No matter how much I try there is no progress in my flexibility levels. Please tell what should I do? [/B]

I tried incliding a youtube link to describe what exactly I mean by advanced poses but according to this forum rules it takes 15 or more posts to be able to post external links.

Goto youtube & search “Advanced Yoga Poses (Asanas)- Part 1”

Play the video with the same title. That’s what I mean by advanced yoga.

#2

I think if you want to get better at asana do more asana.

Use more variety in the forms.
Increase time spent. between 30 minutes and two hours or so - daily.

Stay with your breath during your progression of the forms.

Think about the nature of your respiration as being

long - smooth - deep

Relax into the form.

Breath.

Relax deeper into the form.

inhale. Gather the body a little.
Exhale. Release deeper into the form.

Smile maybe.

Try this if you wish: search google images for Astanga Vinyasa “Primary” and “intermediate” The images should be pretty large. Big enough to print. I however just open the images to my desktop.

The the progression of forms, I find to be pretty smart, and challenging.

#3

[QUOTE=The Scales;56443]
Increase time spent. between 30 minutes and two hours or so - daily.

Stay with your breath during your progression of the forms.

Think about the nature of your respiration as being

long - smooth - deep

Relax into the form.

Breath.

Relax deeper into the form.

inhale. Gather the body a little.
Exhale. Release deeper into the form.

Smile maybe.[/QUOTE]

Presently, it takes about 45-50 mins to complete what I do. I have mentioned asanas that I do.

To increase the time please recommend some asanas.

Thanks a lot for your reply. [B] Please take a look at that video.[/B]

#4

[QUOTE=The Scales;56443]

Try this if you wish: search google images for Astanga Vinyasa “Primary” and “intermediate” The images should be pretty large. Big enough to print. I however just open the images to my desktop.

The the progression of forms, I find to be pretty smart, and challenging.[/QUOTE]

Sorry didn’t see your edit. Okay. I will try those & write back. But again goto youtube
& search [B]Advanced Yoga Poses (Asanas)- Part 1 [/B]. Play the video of the same title.

Thanks again.

#5

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;56447]Sorry didn’t see your edit. Okay. I will try those & write back. But again goto youtube
& search [B]Advanced Yoga Poses (Asanas)- Part 1 [/B]. Play the video of the same title.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. The guys are not only very flexible but dare I say - artitsts?

I DARE DO.

yes

so I stand by my first post.

Summary:
No, I dont’ think you’ve hit the dead end.
Do asana everyday - as much as you can. I’d shoot for two hours – if possible.
Use more variety - look at the Ashtanga flow charts.
Use the breath action to relax into the form

#6

Hi om_namah_shivay,

I suggest you get the book “Light on Yoga” by B.K.S. Iyengar and follow the course given in the appendix. It’s 300 weeks long and I believe it to be very reasonable. Reasonable insofar that each current set of Asanas that you are to do prepares pretty perfectly for the new ones that are introduced - usually new Asanas and/or a change of the sequence are introduced every two weeks, but myself do I progress much slower than that. Also, the sequence-per-session is very thought-out too, the Asanas you do prepare the body for the next ones.

So: Get the book, start with the first week’s sequence. Research any Asana given there on the internet too, there’s a lot of material, YouTube, websites with explanations, DVDs. I can’t see if you have a teacher, could be good to have one, obviously particularly when it’s one that comes from the Iyengar-school. But very important is to follow the course in the book, as - I repeat myself - it’s thought-out and prepares the body for new Asanas, allowing great progress.

Iyengar also has a book on Pranayama, called “Light on Pranayama”. I can’t acutally judge the quality, but I kinda have a lot of faith in the man, so I guess it’s pretty good too.

PS:

Great video. These people, though, are either very flexible naturally (there are huge differences) or practice for a very long time, both daily and over years.

#7

I’m having a tough time following the post.

Could you clarify it for me please?

Are you doing 15 minutes of one of the three pranayama techniques each day or are you doing them all for a total of 45 minutes of pranayama three times per week?

What method are you using for learning both asana and pranayama? Who is teaching you and have you asked you teacher these questions first and are unsatisfied with the reply?

In the listing of your asana practice is this in sequence or have you simply listed what came to mind in no particular order?

Did you mean Savasana rather than Salvasana? I’m not familiar with the latter of these and would need some help in identifying it. And from your listing do I understand that you are not doing any standing poses or inversion in your practice?

#8

@ Quetzalcoatl

I will see if I can find that book locally. If I don’t I will try to buy it online. Thanks for your suggestions.

#9

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56466]
Are you doing 15 minutes of one of the three pranayama techniques each day or are you doing them all for a total of 45 minutes of pranayama three times per week?
[/QUOTE]

I am doing them doing them all for a total of 45 minutes of pranayama three times per week.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56466]
What method are you using for learning both asana and pranayama? Who is teaching you and have you asked you teacher these questions first and are unsatisfied with the reply?
[/QUOTE]

Where I live its tough to find a good yoga teacher. I was introduced to asanas by my gym instructor when I was a only 14. After that I consulted some books for further information.

I have learned pranayam by watching television from Baba Ramdev. I am nont allowed to post links yet so please goto google & type “Baba Ramdev wiki”. You can also visit youtube a watch his videos.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56466]

In the listing of your asana practice is this in sequence or have you simply listed what came to mind in no particular order?
[/QUOTE]

Okay here’s the list of asanas (in sequence) that I practice

PAWANMUKTASANA

SALVASANA

ARDHAMATSENDRASANA

BHUJANGASANA

DHANURASANA

NAUKASANA

ARDHACHAKRASANA

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56466]

Did you mean Savasana rather than Salvasana? I’m not familiar with the latter of these and would need some help in identifying it. And from your listing do I understand that you are not doing any standing poses or inversion in your practice?[/QUOTE]

I meant SALVASANA.

This is what you do

Lie down on your chest (facing the floor)

Place both arms some 2-3 inches from your waist

Now lift both legs

Your, biceps, lower back, buttocks, leg biceps will feel the effect.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56466]
And from your listing do I understand that you are not doing any standing poses or inversion in your practice?[/QUOTE]

No I don’t do any standing poses.

ARDHACHAKRASANA, isn?t that an inversion pose ?

Thanks for your reply.

#10

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;56465]Hi om_namah_shivay,

I suggest you get the book LLight on Yoga and follow the course given in the appendix. It’s 300 weeks long and I believe it to be very reasonable. Reasonable insofar that each current set of Asanas that you are to do prepares pretty perfectly for the new ones that are introduced - usually new Asanas and/or a change of the sequence are introduced every two weeks, but myself do I progress much slower than that. Also, the sequence-per-session is very thought-out too, the Asanas you do prepare the body for the next ones.

So: Get the book, start with the first week’s sequence. Research any Asana given there on the internet too, there’s a lot of material, YouTube, websites with explanations, DVDs. I can’t see if you have a teacher, could be good to have one, obviously particularly when it’s one that comes from the Iyengar-school. But very important is to follow the course in the book, as - I repeat myself - it’s thought-out and prepares the body for new Asanas, allowing great progress.

[/QUOTE]

Okay now I have the book Light on Yoga with me.

Yes, you were right about the asanas being reasonable.

But one thing that I don’t understand is, while writing the courses the author has only mentioned the name of the asanas but didn’t mention the number of sets.

For example, for the first & second week he has prescribed, among other asanas Tadasana, but he didn’t mention how mentioned the number of sets. Does mean that we are suppose to do each asana just once?

Did you follow his course ? What did you do ?

This book is really excellent:-D

#11

Sirshasana is really a blessing and a nectar.

Yes, Yoga is Life.

aum.

#12

[QUOTE=bjoy;56535]Sirshasana is really a blessing and a nectar.

Yes, Yoga is Life.

aum.[/QUOTE]

aum

#13

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;56529]Okay now I have the book Light on Yoga with me.

Yes, you were right about the asanas being reasonable.

But one thing that I don?t understand is, while writing the courses the author has only mentioned the name of the asanas but didn’t mention the number of sets.

For example, for the first & second week he has prescribed, among other asanas Tadasana, but he didn’t mention how mentioned the number of sets. Does mean that we are suppose to do each asana just once?

Did you follow his course ? What did you do ?

This book is really excellent:-D[/QUOTE]

Depending on time you have , I would recommend doing once to three times each , the third time is usually more illuminating , you could always ask the Author he lives in pune . India

#14

[QUOTE=charliedharma;56537]Depending on time you have , I would recommend doing once to three times each , the third time is usually more illuminating , you could always ask the Author he lives in pune . India[/QUOTE]

Presently, I do three sets for all my asanas. I guess I will do three then.

Thanks.

#15

Thank you for the clarifications.
It seems as though you’ve received the answer(s) you were seeking.

Love and light to you in your practice.

gordon

#16

Yoga at its true core has little to do with the poses. Poses were only designed to help us relax our body and bring our focus to total mental relaxation and deep slow ujyi breath

so my advice as a 10 yogi is to bring your focus to your breath and meditation. This will allow your body to relax into the poses and allow for greater balance. Never push into a pose relax into a pose and this can be done easier with daily meditation. Meditation has taken my practice to the next level. Dont focus on your body focus on your mind and breath and your body will naturally flow into poses naturally

#17

[QUOTE=handsofeye;56553]Yoga at its true core has little to do with the poses. Poses were only designed to help us relax our body and bring our focus to total mental relaxation and deep slow ujyi breath

so my advice as a 10 yogi is to bring your focus to your breath and meditation. This will allow your body to relax into the poses and allow for greater balance. Never push into a pose relax into a pose and this can be done easier with daily meditation. Meditation has taken my practice to the next level. Dont focus on your body focus on your mind and breath and your body will naturally flow into poses naturally[/QUOTE]

Okay, the kind of work I do, its not that time consuming. So besides doing asanas & pranayama I can do some meditation too. Its not like I haven’t tried. Since I don’t know any specific technique of meditation, what I did was I tried “not to think of anything” and sit quietly in padmasana. But no matter how much I try this seems impossible. It will be helpful if you can suggest me a specific technique.

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;56548]Thank you for the clarifications.
It seems as though you’ve received the answer(s) you were seeking.

Love and light to you in your practice.

gordon[/QUOTE]

Hi Gordon,

Although I have mentioned in my first post about my history of depression, anxiety & panic attacks, what I deliberately didn’t mention is the fact that I am presently facing severe anxiety disorder. Its even difficult to get out from my house:cry: I can’t maintain eye contact with people.
Because I created this thread to take asana practice to an advance level it felt weird to mention all this.

[B]I don’t want to give up asanas & follow a meditation only routine. Please don’t ask me to do that. [/B]

What do you suggest ?

#18

hmmm fascinating reply to me.

I don’t believe I’ve asked you to do anything other than clarify YOUR post.
It is not my place to ask students to give up asana in favor of meditation. Further it is not my place to tell students to do the same. Students who study with me, a choice they make be it conscious or not, get the four branches of Purna Yoga; Asana/Pranayama, Applied Philosophy, Lifestyle/Nutrition, and Meditation.

I am well aware of the online source you’ve chosen as “teacher”. And that is fine. When there is no pathway for the student to inquire of the teacher, to cultivate a relationship, to refine the learning of the teachings…this is a fairly significant obstacle as I view it. Obviously “ask Ramdev” isn’t a very sound answer but in fact it does drive the point across.

I do not teach nor practice two of the three pranayama techniques you’ve mentioned. Some pranayama is not at all calming but can make the practitioner feel giddy. Some will actually exacerbate anxiety. It is for these and other reasons that I teach only the gentle, supportive, calming, nurturing pranayama techniques until such a time as the student masters the basics (8-10 years of consistent practice). Further, in conveying pranayama to new students I start them with only 4-5 minutes of practice per day. Of course that can build but I’m not at all comfortable with 45 minutes of pranayama practice AND that practice including the ones you’ve outlined. (see my last comment at bottom)

If you are looking for THE answer I’d point out that in yoga there is no one answer. There is that which works for me and that is the place from where I teach.

Obviously a sound practice of backbends can be very helpful for depression when the poses are done appropriately and in such a way as to not harm the physical body. I would avoid introspective poses like uttanasana, balasana, paschimotanasana, and janu sirsasana. Sarpasana, bhujangasana, Dhanurasana, Urdhva Dhanurasana (when the student understands the concept of keeping the shoulders “in joint”), ustrasana, and setu bandha could be helpful.

I want to stres that whatever works for you, viewed clearly without the veil of avidya, asmita, raga, dvesha, and abhinivesha, is correct for you and I am merely responding generally about my practice, my experience, my training, and my teaching. So take it with the appropriate grain of salt.

#19

Hi om_namah_shivay,

Okay now I have the book Light on Yoga with me.
congratulations; can easily be a life-changing piece of paper. :smiley:

But one thing that I don?t understand is, while writing the courses the author has only mentioned the name of the asanas but didn’t mention the number of sets.

For example, for the first & second week he has prescribed, among other asanas Tadasana, but he didn’t mention how mentioned the number of sets. Does mean that we are suppose to do each asana just once?

Did you follow his course ? What did you do ?
I am following the course, doing so for 16 months, but I am “only” in week 18, which is actually weeks 16-17. Every now and then I do some of the Asanas that are to come next, but I still make progress and weeks 19-21 are somewhat a break, for example no Trikonasanas anymore, and I don’t feel ready for a caesura like that.

However.

I suggest you experiment a lot with the Asanas and find out what’s good for you yourself. I tried all sorts of constellations: Doing each Asana a lot of times, only holding them for a few seconds, getting out, getting back in and so on. I did a whole sequence several times after another, which means: Do the Asana once, briefly, do the whole sequence like that, then repeat the sequence and do so 3 - 4 times. What provided me the greatest insight was actually experimenting and working with each of the Asanas, not actually seeing it as “doing the Asana”, but studying it. This includes gathering all sorts of information from any source available (as I mentioned), I got any book on Asanas from the library, bought some, watched any DVD I could find, bought some too (love anything from Dharma Mittra & Iyengar), I spent hours on the internet, YouTube, etc. etc. I would try different methods of getting in and out, was taking great care to get the alignment right and such. I would easily spend half an hour and more on just dealing with one Asana.

Today I do any Asana in the sequence only once, but I hold them for a relatively long time. I found that this works best for me, but I wouldn’t know if that’s the case for everybody. I’m not a friend of flowish styles (“Viniyasa”), I do Asanas one by one. I will hold a triangle up to five minutes, but it’s not perfectly static, I move a bit when I feel like, bend a knee, straighten it again, take an arm down, move my concentration to different points, etc. etc.

Bottom line: Work with the Asanas yourself. Don’t rely on what people say about them. Just be very care- and mindful so you don’t hurt yourself.

By the way: I have no teacher as well, never had one, no teacher ever saw me doing an Asana. Yet, I never hurt myself, my progress is simply awesome. I’m around 40 years old and literally healed several problems I had before I started, most notably a “bad knee”, that, when I started, made a nasty crackling sound when I just bent the knee. I could kneel for a few seconds with great pain, not stand up without support. Today I kneel for 15 minutes and meditate there, I do squats with my son piggy-back. And a handful of other things. So:

Although I have mentioned in my first post about my history of depression, anxiety & panic attacks, what I deliberately didn’t mention is the fact that I am presently facing severe anxiety disorder. Its even difficult to get out from my house :frowning: I can’t maintain eye contact with people.
Because I created this thread to take asana practice to an advance level it felt weird to mention all this.

I don’t want to give up asanas & follow a meditation only routine. Please don’t ask me to do that.

What do you suggest ?
Don’t be influenced by people like InnerAthlete who indeed does suggest that doing something without a personal teacher is totally bad and out of the question. You sensed that right, he does it all the time and then always denys it. He does it even in his denial, it’s hilarious. But he’s a businessman like many others are on forums. You see, this forum has 40,000 unique visitors per month, so many “selfless” teachers drop by to promote their studios and websites and hope to make more cash. Watch this film on the issue:

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/watch/yoga_inc/

Don’t let such people make you nervous, be smart and use your own brain to find things out, it’s your body. Iyengar, for example, had no teacher himself. He would just spend hours and hours practicing and stuyding the Asanas. Do it like him, don’t hand the responsibility for your own body and practice over to some list of certificates. I’m, though, not saying a teacher would be bad. Have one, if you can or want one. Still continue thinking yourself, studying yourself and question anything she/he teaches you. Also: Don’t just listen to my suggestion of Iyengar. It might not be the best thing for you, though I must totally doubt that you won’t make great progress by following the course wholeheartedly. But I’m just some individual too with my personal preferences. Maybe watch this film too:

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/2L28Ao3LkiU/

On the psychological problems you mention: Depression and anxiety have a cause. Find out that cause, in case you’re not already fully aware of it. That cause causes a conflict, because something about it isn’t resolved. You have to resolve that specific thing and have to come to terms with it. I’m perfectly sure that each and any part of Yoga can be of assistence, for example will great progress in doing Asanas give you confidence and a good feeling about yourself. Mind-related practiceses, like meditation, concentration and breathing, will give you more control over you thoughts and emotions, it will relax your mind and calm it down, which again makes … everything easier. You achieve good things, that makes you feel good and strong. It indeed does make you strong/er, not just feel strong. But in the end it’s those individual causes that you have to deal with, and that you - if you ask me - not do with some people on some forum. I suggest you start talking about these things with people you trust and if you have noone that you can trust, find a therapeut, meet her or him, see if you can trust them, and if you do, work with them. This can be difficult, because you might have to visit a lot of therapists to find one you do trust - it’s quite personal. But don’t think that you just have to perform some posture or mental concentration or breathing technique and those problems will go away. They won’t, they have to be dealt with directly.

Be smart!

#20

Q Mr Iyengar did have teacher , perhaps one of the greatest of recent years in fact , certainly one of the most influential , T Krishnamacharya , His brother in law and also his Guru, He did however as you suggest in your post spend a lot of his time alone refining asana , but he always refers to Krishnamacharya as his Guru. Any half decent teacher will encourage you to develop your own practise , in fact going to class is more of a check up and a place to expand ones knowledge so that one can take this into one s own practise and life , or else its just a dry practise. I know of teachers who have encouraged long standing students to" get off the teat "
Mr Iyengar himself recommends working with a teacher , he does also say a good book is better than a bad teacher.
I have never seen IA say that working without a teacher is "Bad " but I have not read all his posts . I must also say that I feel Gordon spends alot of time and effort looking to give his sound advice and opinion completely free of charge , Im not sure how he gains in a commercial point of view , if he was so interested in the money he could find more profitable ways of sharing his knowledge in my view .

Om namah shivay , Yoga can in its wholeness offer a complete system to help us through are human condition but as Q says there are many other resources available to us ,and perhaps many Yoga teachers who dont offer or cant offer the full yoga spectrum, so Finding your way is perhaps where you could look . I dont think anybody is going to or even could make you meditate , and indeed with whats going on for you it sounds that a simple asana practise and some simple breathing / pranayama rhythms , perhaps concentrating on exhaling and letting go, could be a great place to start , there are some great teachers out there , and some not. and finding your way is best , and listening to your heart.
peace .