Hindu, Yoga, Who Cares?

I don’t know who the hell started this “is yoga hinduism or not” debate, Deepak Chopra? But I know that people who do yoga don’t care if it is or isn’t, they just love yoga.

Having been to hundreds of yoga centers worldwide including India, there is never any talk about whether yoga is hinduism or not, we are all too busy DOING YOGA.

Everyone knows that yoga has Indic roots. Nobody denies that or has a problem with that or wants to change that.

In Western yoga studios you often see art work of Shiva or other gods and goddesses.

I think this whole “debate” was sparked by a few famous or semi-famous Indian media heads because I have never come across it before in my life amongst common yoga practicioners from the West, India or anywhere else.

If you really want to, you can pore through the thousands of posts made by those who repeatedly assert/intimate that “Yoga isn’t Hindu,” “Yoga predates Hinduism,” and even “Hinduism is a corruption of Yoga.”

And the reason people never talk about Hindu this, Hindu that in Yoga classes is because societies are inundated with political correctness. But when it comes to the Internet, everyone’s biases are revealed due to the comfort provided by anonymity.

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63224]But I know that people who do yoga don’t care if it is or isn’t, they just love yoga.[/QUOTE]

that’s the bullseye.

I agree, God is beyond religion.

What really matters is that it works.

[QUOTE=panoramix;63245]I agree, God is beyond religion.

What really matters is that it works.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but that is no excuse to go around not giving credit where its due.

Its like me saying that Calculus is beyond human pandering and therefore, Newton or Leibniz were neither important nor special.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63253]I agree, but that is no excuse to go around not giving credit where its due.

Its like me saying that Calculus is beyond human pandering and therefore, Newton or Leibniz were neither important nor special.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it’s more like saying that Calculus has nothing to do with mathematics. It’s not just about the people who discovered Calculus (mathematicians), but about the nature of the subject which is mathematical.

btw. calculus was discovered in medieval India, not by Newton and Leibniz: http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jan/calculus-was-developed-in-medieval-india

I agree, but that is no excuse to go around not giving credit where its due.

That’s just the point - the topic does not even come up. Everyone knows yoga is from India and that its associated with Hindu culture. Nobody goes to a yoga class and exclaims, “This is not Indian! This is not Hindu!”

People do yoga and thats it.

I’ve never heard any kind of “is this Hindu or not” debate going on.

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63260]That’s just the point - the topic does not even come up. Everyone knows yoga is from India and that its associated with Hindu culture. Nobody goes to a yoga class and exclaims, “This is not Indian! This is not Hindu!”

People do yoga and thats it.

I’ve never heard any kind of “is this Hindu or not” debate going on.[/QUOTE]

The “Is Yoga Hinduism” thread is a good place to start.

And I’m surprised you haven’t heard of such controversies. Remember the NYT article about “Taking Yoga back?”

Besides, I live in the [U]B[/U]latant [U]I[/U]ndoctrination [U]B[/U]olstering [U]L[/U]ack of [U]E[/U]ducation Belt of the U.S. You’ll see much more controversy there than in any other place in the U.S (Midwest comes a close second, with the Western parts of the U.S a third).

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;63254]Actually, it’s more like saying that Calculus has nothing to do with mathematics. It’s not just about the people who discovered Calculus (mathematicians), but about the nature of the subject which is mathematical.

btw. calculus was discovered in medieval India, not by Newton and Leibniz: http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jan/calculus-was-developed-in-medieval-india[/QUOTE]

No, Calculus was not [U]just[/U] discovered in India.

Certain concepts, such as series of all sorts, summations, method of exhaustion, infinitesimals, rates were discovered by many civilizations throughout history, especially the Islamic (which made the greatest contributions), Indian, and Greek. Some of them came remarkably close to discovering the fundamental concepts of Calculus.

However, it was the Europeans who unified what were historically considered disparate topics into two overarching themes, integration and differentiation (which are themselves unified into one concept, that of the [B]limit[/B]). They (Newton and Leibniz), building upon the contributions of other civilizations before them and discovering unique concepts themselves, engineered the master stroke that made Calculus the problem solving tool it is today.

With that being said, Europeans didn’t “discover” Calculus per se. But they do deserve the ultimate recognition.

The Bible Belt is full of low IQ nuts and religious fanatics who would not participate in anything “furren” to their particular denomination of the Jesus Cult.

Where yoga is practiced - The West Coast, The East Coast and any urban center and its surrounding suburbs, the type of people who practice yoga are not generally thinking or talking about where it came from, they are just doing it.

They obviously know that yoga is from India and has Hindu roots. This does not mean however that they have any further interest in Hinduism or consider themselves to be Hindus because they practice yoga.

There are some that do, of course. Many yoga practicioners are interested in exploring other aspects of Hinduism further, but there are others, (maybe the majority–I dunno), [B]that just LIKE TO DO YOGA [/B]and really don’t care about its Hindu roots.

Again, this is not a debate amongst grass roots yoga practicioners anywhere.

This has all been cooked up by the media heads.

There are some that do, of course. Many yoga practicioners are interested in exploring other aspects of Hinduism further, but there are others, (maybe the majority–I dunno), [B]that just LIKE TO DO[/B] [B]GYMNASTICS[/B] and really don’t care about its Hindu roots.

correction

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63265]No, Calculus was not [U]just[/U] discovered in India.

Certain concepts, such as series of all sorts, summations, method of exhaustion, infinitesimals, rates were discovered by many civilizations throughout history, especially the Islamic (which made the greatest contributions), Indian, and Greek. Some of them came remarkably close to discovering the fundamental concepts of Calculus.

However, it was the europeans who unified what were historically considered disparate topics into two overarching themes, integration and differentiation (which are themselves unified into one concept, that of the [B]limit[/B]). They (Newton and Leibniz), building upon the contributions of other civilizations before them and discovering unique concepts themselves, engineered the master stroke that made Calculus the problem solving tool it is today.

With that being said, Europeans didn’t “discover” Calculus per se. But they do deserve the ultimate recognition.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that, the Europeans have made their contributions, but many mathematical ideas that are contributed to Europeans have actually already been discovered elsewhere much earlier. Like the pascal triangle. What we are taught in school is often very eurocentric and doesn’t take into account to contributions or discoveries in the rest of the world.

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;63269]I agree with that, the Europeans have made their contributions, [B]but many mathematical ideas that are contributed to Europeans have actually already been discovered elsewhere much earlier[/B]. Like the pascal triangle. What we are taught in school is often very eurocentric and doesn’t take into account to contributions or discoveries in the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]

That’s only the preliminary stuff. Majority (meaning like 90%) of the discoveries that fall under the branch of Calculus, were from the 17-18th century and onwards, made by Europeans.

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63267]The Bible Belt is full of low IQ nuts and religious fanatics who would not participate in anything “furren” to their particular denomination of the Jesus Cult.

Where yoga is practiced - The West Coast, The East Coast and any urban center and its surrounding suburbs, the type of people who practice yoga are not generally thinking or talking about where it came from, they are just doing it.

They obviously know that yoga is from India and has Hindu roots. This does not mean however that they have any further interest in Hinduism or consider themselves to be Hindus because they practice yoga.

There are some that do, of course. Many yoga practicioners are interested in exploring other aspects of Hinduism further, but there are others, (maybe the majority–I dunno), [B]that just LIKE TO DO YOGA [/B]and really don’t care about its Hindu roots.

Again, this is not a debate amongst grass roots yoga practicioners anywhere.

This has all been cooked up by the media heads.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

I could care less if people practice Hinduism or not.

I do care when people try to appropriate another’s culture.

And you made a very valid point about the media.

“I do care when people try to appropriate another’s culture.”

Yoga practicioners are not appropriating another culture. They are simply practicing asanas.

If you are referring to “Christian Yoga” the only thing I could find on that was “Faith Moves” created by a woman who felt that yoga was Hindu and against her religion and thus she [U]created her own set of movements[/U] accompanied by verses from the Bible or something and called it “Faith Moves”.

She did not appropriate anything from yoga or Hindu culture, she made up her own thing.

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63276]Yoga practicioners are not appropriating another culture. They are simply practicing asanas.

.[/QUOTE]

Rather a sad statement. Shows a complete lack of appreciation of what is the essence of yoga- the spiritual side. If it is only the physical side that concerns one, one is better off as a contortionist.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;63271]That’s only the preliminary stuff. Majority (meaning like 90%) of the discoveries that fall under the branch of Calculus, were from the 17-18th century and onwards, made by Europeans.[/QUOTE]

Like Newton said, we are standing on the shoulder of giants. I think he meant the Indians as well. :wink:

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63276]Yoga practicioners are not appropriating another culture. They are simply practicing asanas.

If you are referring to “Christian Yoga” the only thing I could find on that was “Faith Moves” created by a woman who felt that yoga was Hindu and against her religion and thus she [U]created her own set of movements[/U] accompanied by verses from the Bible or something and called it “Faith Moves”.

She did not appropriate anything from yoga or Hindu culture, she made up her own thing.[/QUOTE]
Actually the creater of faith moves is against anything that has to do with yoga and Hinduism, she even opposes Christian yoga. The real appropiation is done by the Christian yogis and the Kaballah yogis who take a lot from Hindu philosophy, but give it an abrahamic coating. This behavior is very common in the history of the abrahamic relgions, Christianity in particular. Everytime they went on a mission of conversion, they adopted the local customs and integrated them into Christianity. You can see this in african and native american groups who have become Christian. They have kept a lot of their original animistic aspects of their old religions. One example is the church of Santo Daime, where they have adopted a lot of the shamanic customs of native americans like drinking ayausca. Now it is happening with yoga and ayurveda. There’s a new age therapy that works with the chakras in order to attain Christ conciousness.

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;63290]Like Newton said, we are standing on the shoulder of giants. I think he meant the Indians as well. ;)[/QUOTE]

Newton and Leibniz independently made their contributions to Calculus and were unaware of the accomplishments of the civilizations before them. So far, there has been little to no evidence to suggest otherwise.

No, Newton meant that in a metaphorical sense. It is also debated that he said it to make fun of Robert Hooke, his archnemesis (who was dimunitive).

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;63276]Yoga practicioners are not appropriating another culture. They are simply practicing asanas.

If you are referring to “Christian Yoga” the only thing I could find on that was “Faith Moves” created by a woman who felt that yoga was Hindu and against her religion and thus she [U]created her own set of movements[/U] accompanied by verses from the Bible or something and called it “Faith Moves”.

She did not appropriate anything from yoga or Hindu culture, she made up her own thing.[/QUOTE]

And that’s the root of the problem.

Step 1: You don’t like the culture a certain practice comes from, so you dilute it and mix it in with other elements.

Step 2: You start defaming that culture more and more and gradually balk at recognizing its accomplishments.

Step 3: You claim that your form of this practice is completely original and unique and you refuse to give the original culture any sort of priority claim.

This is precisely how Christian murderers completely converted all of Europe. They conquered a “pagan land” and established churches and missionary centers. The native people were allowed to maintain some elements of their faith. After 2+ generations, these elements would be nearly eradicated, due to Bible indoctrination at young ages.

Much the same sentiments have been displayed on this section of the forum.

The truth is that the moment you modify a practice to fit your own views, you demolish the chance of ever truly understanding the larger cultural context from which it comes. This leads to ignorance, scorn, and even hatred.

Now do you see why Indian Hindus like us are not so fond of Westerners adopting our practices?

You guys could learn a lot from the East and South East Asians. They adopted Buddhism and modified and expanded upon it, but still maintained cultural respect for its origins (despite outliers here and there). Although this has declined throughout the ages, much work is being done to rebuild those bridges in this era.