How can you know the truth about yourself?

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;53808]“It’s gotta be like some sort of performance art or something?”

What is performance art are your attention seeking tendencies which are so far almost inexhaustible.[/QUOTE]

I know you are but what am I?

Oh I get it. I want the attention?

I’m the attention who*rE?

You don’t see THE SCALES on the You tube giving the discourses and advertising them here.

You don’t see THE SCALES gathering chelas and plotting his ministry.

You dont’ see THE SCALES advertising his state and his ‘method’ that he ‘[U]discovered[/U]’. < HA!

It’s so funny. I can’t seriously believe you are this dense. Your projecting on to me EINSTEIN. Do you get it?

You have got to be kidding.

And you claim to be awakened?

Too funny.

[QUOTE=omamana;53818]Can I ask, why are you guys always having a go at Amir?[/QUOTE]

Because he’s dangerous and not everyone sees through his garbage. I’m not even kidding about the dangerous part. He’s a danger both to himself and others.

Thats why.

True Omamana.

A go at Amir,

  • at the cost of drifting away from the thread

  • using cheap attack against someone who doesn’t apear to lose his poise

  • showing an urchin urge to cut short a mature debate

what a waste.

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;53824]True Omamana.

A go at Amir,

  • at the cost of drifting away from the thread

  • using cheap attack against someone who doesn’t apear to lose his poise

  • showing an urchin urge to cut short a mature debate

what a waste.[/QUOTE]

See?

There certainly is no ‘truth’ about yourself. That is madness. You are constantly changing moment by moment. Any solid ‘truths’ you find about yourself, will be gone as fast as it arrived. I think to just be, is far more valuable and realistic.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;53864]There certainly is no ‘truth’ about yourself. That is madness. You are constantly changing moment by moment. Any solid ‘truths’ you find about yourself, will be gone as fast as it arrived. I think to just be, is far more valuable and realistic.[/QUOTE]

The truth is that you are - the question is what are you?

Yogiadam does not have the spiritual yearning yet to find out that who part. At the moment he still thinks he is a body, in this world to seek pleasure and consume.

[QUOTE=omamana;53818]Can I ask, why are you guys always having a go at Amir?[/QUOTE]

Well, because he claims to be post-enlightened. He behaves like he knows better than others. Every post he responds to, he comes back to his own enlightenment. He preaches direct experience all the time, but rejects others direct experience. He is constantly accusing everyone of projecting, being asleep, making assumptions and condescendingly tells them to question themselves, but never questions himself. He never actually says anything of value, but usually writes paragraphs of pretentious garbage. For example in this thread the OP asks how do you know yourself, everybody else responds to the OP, and Amir instead reminds the OP he is not enlightened. He is constantly directly and indirectly talking about his enlightenment, and uses that as a weapon against others to show them why what they are saying is nonsense because they are not enlightened.

He has alienated about a dozen people on this forum with his condescending attitude and spiritual superiority complex. Look at what he just said to me:

"You have looked into the words of the question, but have not looked into the spirit of how the question is asked. And how a question is asked, with what intention, is not separate from the question itself - although it remains hidden and unspoken.

Rather than asking for a prepared model of what to do, which is simply rooted in the attachment to an outcome, one should dissolve that idea completely. Only then is there a possibility of an authentic inquiry. Nor is the inquiry a mere intellectual inquiy, but it requires you to come to know of direct self-observation which is rooted in living experience from moment to moment."

Here he is basically saying to me that only he has understood what the OP really asked, and his answer was the best, because it is coming from somebody who is enlightened and awake. Whereas, because I am not enlightened and awake, I have not understood what the OP asked and therefore my answer was useless. It is this stinking spiritually arrogant attitude that is turning a lot of people against him. He behaves like he is perfect and everything that comes out of his mouth is spiritual gold.

Surya,

‘Well, because he claims to be post-enlightened.’

If one is going to speak of the matter, one should be giving accurate reports. I have not said that I am post-enlightened, I have simply said that I am in the process of post-enlightenment training. There is no such thing as post-enlightenment, there are only various depths and intensities of what one is calling ‘enlightenment’, it is an ongoing process.

‘He preaches direct experience all the time, but rejects others direct experience.’

Direct experience is needed, but a certain type of direct experience. The cow chewing peacefully on the grass is also having a certain direct experience, in fact there is nothing in life which is not rooted in direct experience. Even direct experience can be dangerous without a certain wisdom, because ones experiences are capable of deceiving oneself in as many different ways as the midn is capable. But there is a certain direct experience which triggers transformation. And one may like it or dislike it, but only those who know it are capable of speaking about the matter.

‘For example in this thread the OP asks how do you know yourself, everybody else responds to the OP, and Amir instead reminds the OP he is not enlightened.’

That is not what I have said, I have not even mentioned the word enlightened. I have said that it is not something that can be discovered intellectually, but one must come to know oneself as a direct experience. Part of coming to this knowledge is a receptive attitude of inquiry, which is not focused upon doing something, or becoming something, but understanding yourself as you are.

‘Here he is basically saying to me that only he has understood what the OP really asked’

You have not understood my response. I was saying that often when one looks at a question, one does not consider the intentions behind the question, the space from where the question is arising. And the space from where the question is arising is just as important as the question itself. The fact is that earthys question was coming from a certain attachment which was functioning as a barrier for coming to a deeper understanding of oneself. It is good that the desire to come to know the truth of oneself is there, but the desire is not enough. Rather than trying to find out where to go and what to do, what is needed is to come to understand the hindrances which are preventing oneself from coming to more awareness. Out of dissolving of those hindrances, then the Way reveals itself. But if one is focused on something to attain somewhere far away in the future, one misses coming to an understanding of things from the very seat in which one is sitting. An attachment to the idea of future becoming is one of the greatest hindrances for coming to more awareness, and it is in this context that I have responded to the question.

Amir, you sure do spend a lot of time writing garbage:

If one is going to speak of the matter, one should be giving accurate reports. I have not said that I am post-enlightened, I have simply said that I am in the process of post-enlightenment training. There is no such thing as post-enlightenment, there are only various depths and intensities of what one is calling ‘enlightenment’, it is an ongoing process

To claim you are in your post enlightenment training, presupposes you are already enlightened and now you are going beyond that. To even go around saying you are enlightened requires a bit of shame, which you evidently do not have. In any case, you know the record with me, I don’t think you are enlightened. Not even close.

Direct experience is needed, but a certain type of direct experience. The cow chewing peacefully on the grass is also having a certain direct experience, in fact there is nothing in life which is not rooted in direct experience. Even direct experience can be dangerous without a certain wisdom, because ones experiences are capable of deceiving oneself in as many different ways as the midn is capable. But there is a certain direct experience which triggers transformation. And one may like it or dislike it, but only those who know it are capable of speaking about the matter.

Translation: Direct experience is important, but only when it comes from an enlightened person - like yourself. Buzz off. This kind of attitude is not going to win you many supporters on this forum. I recently had a conversation with a friend regarding you, who told me they find you annoying because everything you say assumes you know better than everybody else.

Look, we don’t buy into your enlightenment, so to play that card on us on every discussion we have is a waste of time. Behave like an ordinary member, don’t behave like you are better than us, or else be prepared to be rejected by everybody. For an enlightened master, you are not off to a good start, as more than a dozen people on this forum are alienated by you. Compare and contrast, to established and well known masters like Swami Yogananda Paramhansa, everybody wanted to be his friend and wanted to hear what he had to say.

That is not what I have said, I have not even mentioned the word enlightened. I have said that it is not something that can be discovered intellectually, but one must come to know oneself as a direct experience. Part of coming to this knowledge is a receptive attitude of inquiry, which is not focused upon doing something, or becoming something, but understanding yourself as you are.

You said to the OP that the fact he is asking this question means he does not know himself. Asuri, Scales and I all picked up on how ridiculous this statement was, because the poor guy never claimed to know himself, that is why he was asking. It’s like you have this annoying habit, in each and everyone of your posts to tell others they are not enlightened and by contrast establish that you are enlightened. It is happening in pretty every post you make on this forum. Stop it. It is annoying and condescending.

You have not understood my response. I was saying that often when one looks at a question, one does not consider the intentions behind the question, the space from where the question is arising. And the space from where the question is arising is just as important as the question itself.

Translation: When others, other than yourself look at a question, they do not consider the intentions behind the question and space from which it arises. But because you are enlightened, you do, and therefore can answer what they are really asking, while the rest of us mere mortals are missing the point. Here we go again.

The fact is that earthys question was coming from a certain attachment which was functioning as a barrier for coming to a deeper understanding of oneself.

It’s a pretty direct question in simple English - “How can you know the truth about yourself” and got some pretty direct answers by the members here. Once again, it was you, who did not give a direct answer, but wrote some pretentious garbage, which once again was more you than anything else. Like I said, every post you make, no matter where you make it, presupposes your enlightenment. You need to forget yourself for a bit, and focus on others. This way you will learn from what others have to say. There are dozens of members on this forum who have expertise in areas you do not. So learn to be humble and stop talking down to people.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53887]Yogiadam does not have the spiritual yearning yet to find out that who part. At the moment he still thinks he is a body, in this world to seek pleasure and consume.[/QUOTE]

Just a couple of corrections… I don’t have a spiritual yearning ANYMORE… as far as asserting ideas of who I think I am and how I live… you don’t even know me. Why don’t you worry about you, and I’ll worry about me… instead of being a judgmental, patronizing, little bitch. You have no idea where I’ve come from and how far I’ve come in life. You don’t know the challenges I went through to get where I am today. If your going to spent 14 hours a day criticizing and judging others over “the internet”… I think it’s time you looked in the mirror… and with your eyes open this time!!!

I am not sure what you are moaning about. I am pretty much echoing what you have said yourself regarding spirituality and purpose of life(to enjoy, get laid) I guess, when you hear it back to yourself, you realise what others are hearing.

Good luck in your journey. Every dog has its day.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53999]I am not sure what you are moaning about. I am pretty much echoing what you have said yourself regarding spirituality and purpose of life(to enjoy, get laid) I guess, when you hear it back to yourself, you realise what others are hearing.

Good luck in your journey. Every dog has its day.[/QUOTE]

It’s a shame you don’t live in Australia. I’d love to meet you face to face and have a lovely chat.

p.s. Don’t get angry at me if you can’t get laid.

Hey, getting laid is so easy.

If you get laid, big deal. It is common.

Cheap and common :wink:

Surya,

“Look, we don’t buy into your enlightenment, so to play that card on us on every discussion we have is a waste of time. Behave like an ordinary member, don’t behave like you are better than us, or else be prepared to be rejected by everybody.”

You are speaking too much in plural, and in the process, trespassing on other people’s being. Have courage, stand alone, and speak out of your own voice. There are many who have found what I have had to say useful, and they are free to come to their own conclusions out of their own intelligence. If you are going to speak, speak for yourself and nobody else.

“Compare and contrast, to established and well known masters like Swami Yogananda Paramhansa, everybody wanted to be his friend and wanted to hear what he had to say.”

That is fine, and although I appreciate his work, I do not consider Yogananda a Buddha. Neither is enlightenment a popularity contest.

"You said to the OP that the fact he is asking this question means he does not know himself. Asuri, Scales and I all picked up on how ridiculous this statement was, because the poor guy never claimed to know himself, that is why he was asking. "

You missed the first half of the message : “Truth is not something to be evaluated, but something to be lived. Neither is it something that you can grasp into your fist, it is the very stuff that you are made of. To try and grasp it is like trying to contain the whole ocean into your fist, or a mirror trying to reflect itself”

If you understand this, then rather than asking how you can evaluate yourself, you will seek to observe yourself directly from moment to moment - it is something that is to be seen through the process of living itself. And the difference between evaluation and observation
is enormous.

“Once again, it was you, who did not give a direct answer”

Yes, it is my intention to be indirect, because otherwise one is all too willing to accept what other people have been saying without functioning out of ones own intelligence. And chances are, that one already has too much borrowed knowledge in ones mind, one can continue gathering leaves and branches endlessly without ever coming to the roots. So it is my intention to be indirect. One has a mind, one has intelligence, all of the resources that one has to find out the answers are already within oneself - just one has to investigate and explore with a bit of courage.

"Like I said, every post you make, no matter where you make it, presupposes your enlightenment. "

That is your own obsession because you are intimidated. And as long as you are intimidated, I will continue to be a threat to your ego.

That is your own obsession because you are intimidated. And as long as you are intimidated, I will continue to be a threat to your ego.

I am going to end this silly discussion here now, as I’ve grown bored of you. You are a nobody, you have zero credentials, and have alienated about a dozen people on this forum by talking down to them and behaving like you know it all, and are above established popular masters of our century that have millions of followers. Buzz off. I will never hear of you again.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54044]Hey, getting laid is so easy.

If you get laid, big deal. It is common.

Cheap and common ;)[/QUOTE]

You don’t have a sex drive SD?? Seriously?.. Sex is not cheap, it’s free… well sometimes.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53888]Well, because he claims to be post-enlightened. He behaves like he knows better than others. Every post he responds to, he comes back to his own enlightenment. He preaches direct experience all the time, but rejects others direct experience. He is constantly accusing everyone of projecting, being asleep, making assumptions and condescendingly tells them to question themselves, but never questions himself. He never actually says anything of value, but usually writes paragraphs of pretentious garbage. For example in this thread the OP asks how do you know yourself, everybody else responds to the OP, and Amir instead reminds the OP he is not enlightened. He is constantly directly and indirectly talking about his enlightenment, and uses that as a weapon against others to show them why what they are saying is nonsense because they are not enlightened.

He has alienated about a dozen people on this forum with his condescending attitude and spiritual superiority complex. Look at what he just said to me:

"You have looked into the words of the question, but have not looked into the spirit of how the question is asked. And how a question is asked, with what intention, is not separate from the question itself - although it remains hidden and unspoken.

Rather than asking for a prepared model of what to do, which is simply rooted in the attachment to an outcome, one should dissolve that idea completely. Only then is there a possibility of an authentic inquiry. Nor is the inquiry a mere intellectual inquiy, but it requires you to come to know of direct self-observation which is rooted in living experience from moment to moment."

Here he is basically saying to me that only he has understood what the OP really asked, and his answer was the best, because it is coming from somebody who is enlightened and awake. Whereas, because I am not enlightened and awake, I have not understood what the OP asked and therefore my answer was useless. It is this stinking spiritually arrogant attitude that is turning a lot of people against him. He behaves like he is perfect and everything that comes out of his mouth is spiritual gold.[/QUOTE]

It is not for me to say who Amir is or is not. All I can comment on is my observations on this forum, and from what I see Amir is always the one being attacked and provoked by you and others.

I think you feel threatened by Amir and you don?t like the fact that there is someone on this forum who might know more than you do.

Perhaps you finally feel the frustration you intentionally provoked in others.

Sex is not cheap, it’s free… well sometimes.

Exactly :wink: It is nothing to boast about, my friend. You live a common life.

Perhaps you finally feel the frustration you intentionally provoked in others.

Perhaps I do not :wink:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;54142]You live a common life. [/QUOTE]

What’s wrong with common?