You have to let your mind repose until it disappears, and that what remains is pure consciousness.
That sounds like your ego disappearing, which I believe I read is the delta state of the brainwaves (1-4hz per second).
Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.
PJ – do you have an eeg or something to help you confirm when you or someone you are observing has hit the point you’re looking for? If not, you might not find what you’re looking for by returning to those numbers.
I hope you enjoy a peaceful and centering meditative practice.
Namaste PJ2001,
Contrary to popular belief in the West, meditation is not something you do, it is something that will happen to you after you have diligently and persistently employ certain meditation techniques. I have described the four most important techniques here:
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f20/meditation-yoga-vs-zen-1693.html
I don’t have the necessary background or knowledge to comment on the
workings of brainwaves etc. What I can tell you is that while you feel that you are “disappearing” at the same time you feel more conscious and aware. It is difficult to explain, I think it is something one needs to experience.
Ok, you’ve aroused my interest, Pandara…
What would you recommend for the amatuer as to how to get started - then going up to the advanced?
[quote=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.[/quote]
Very good observation.
Yeah I second that, Hubert.
Erm, what exactly is “the tantric schema of 36 tatvas”?
It is the very tantrik cosmology. An schema explaining the evolution of consciousness into universe… from pure non manifested consciousness to earth element.
Hi PJ2001,
I follow the breath and alternate it on certain days with mantra. Following the breath is most probably the easiest technique for a beginner.
[I]“Blooming of a Lotus” by Thich Nhat Han, [/I]is a beautiful book with simple, clear and good explanations on how to start your meditation practice and it explains the techniques very well.
Then it is a question of persistence, patience and preserverance. (My own Three P’s).
What you will experience, well that depends entirely on you and what you need to experience will come to you via your meditation.
[B]Just a few thoughts on the 36 Tattvas:[/B]
The number or Tattvas actually varies depending on which Buddhist/Hindu school or thought you follow. The Tattvas forms the basis of ALL our experiences. The Tattvas concerns itself with the duality of our existence and as such Purusha (the limited individual) and Prakriti (your spiritual nature) forms the aspects of your experience of this duality. The Tattvas are therefore inclusive of awareness or consciousness as well as material existence.
There are three main Tattvas (I describe the Shaivism Tattvas here, although I foloow myself the 25 Tattvas of Shamkaya):
• The first five tattvas (1-5) are known as the [I]shuddha[/I] or ‘pure’ tattvas. They explain our universal experience.
• The next seven tattvas (6–12) are known as the [I]shuddha-ashuddha[/I] or ‘pure-impure’ tattvas. They explain your limited individual experiences.
• The last twenty-four tattvas (13–36) are known as the [I]ashuddha[/I] or ‘impure’ tattvas. The first of these is prakriti and they include the tattvas of mental operation, sensible experience and materiality.
The Tattvas is such a complex and vast system I wouldn’t recommend it for a beginner on the spiritual path or in meditation. This is an aspect that you may want to explore only much later when you are more experienced and under good guidence by a teacher.
Good luck with your endeavour.
meditation means many things to many people, fisrt we need to know exactly why we wanna do medidation…
like i always say its a state of mind, we need to use our mind the resolve our future problems and pass trought every bad rotine day…
there is always a focus…
I have noticed that the less I know about a subject, the more confident I feel
and the more light I throw upon it.
Mark TwainHi,
If you’re serious i would go here and try their “deep meditation” practice out. I don’t really practice it anymore(other than as a test) as i don’t follow the AYP system any more.I follow another system and any useful adjuncts i can find to tie onto that in my sadhana. But this particular practice pretty much the same as transcendental meditation i believe ( the only difference being that their choice of silent mantras are universal and progressive,i.e staged, the procedure is the same) should cultivate a transcendental state in the consiousness of most people and likely within about 3 days of practice, (though perhaps up to a week if you are say insensitiive) and will create the delta and theta and alpha waves. Most people are often stuck on the beta or unfortanutely high-beta because of stress, demands of an unnatural modern lifestyle and/or illhealth.
It may not work for everyone long-term but that is part of the joy and interest of deepening in one’s yoga explorations…finding what may work or may not long-term or shorter-term, what one may need and benefit from right now or not so much etc.
You don’t need to follow a rigid system but if you’re new to yoga’s possiblities it helps to start out. Otherwise you’re flying without maps uncharted and doubt and confusion can arise. I still have some questions over the appropriateness of combiningg some yogas with others in particular say deep mantra yoga with say kundalin yoga.I think you have to be the guinea pig, do the research and test the waters yourself. but if you’re just starting to explore the deeper aspects of yoga, and it’s a marathon or tour de france, not a sprint, then either stick with a method within a system and then take it from there. Remember that less is more in yoga. Find a method that works alright for you and have the patience and stamina to stick with it rain or shine.Results come if we are patient and are willing to do the work…It gets easier We get more confident, more independent of system or school or ways of thinking as we try out what works or what perhaps does’nt whatever that point may be. Also if you stick rigidly to the monolith of any system one needs to courage to break free from any system if the expectant results are not forthcoming. You simply need the ability to enquire and experiement for yourself and not take other people’s word for something. You really need to become an independent thinker tied to no-one permanently. Like a voyager in an unknown frontier… You have the maps, you make the choices and you learn as you go along…
This particular method or technique facilitates deep meditation very quickly and effectively…Why is it soo effective and quick?.. because… … well you’d be best to find that out for yourself through experience.It actually alters the neurology of the brain through sound waves and facilitates pratyahara very easily.
P.S This is where my intial doubts arose and they still persist about combining this particular practice with using third-eye or other chakra exercises . This is probably why i have heard it said and suggested in other systems that waking up kundalin first then doing this type of meditation afterwards may well be prescribed in that order if one wishes to do that… There is not one correct way , just different apporaches that may work better for different people.But You learn from them all.The AYP system starts you off with deep meditation so one can get deep and profound first-hand insight & experience into the subtle terrain of the inner domain right off the bat.
And btw The approach i follow right now is somehwat different from the AYP approach.It’s hard to explain but it seems like you’re doing less and working on more micro-cosmic levels but I think the results may well be more predictable in most people.But you need to get a grip with the subtle domain and how the nervous system operates, how to detect prana, or obstructions as they are freed and removed, notice the cues and use these as navigational aids…they help you navigate. i think in AYP they could have a lesson on navigation…or what to observe within the inner domain…the cues!!! how the prana should be moving…in a balanced way. they’e got much correct however and very informative & helpful i found…they just say do the practices and all wil be well.but from my own pexerience if you come with any serious imbalance or complications then you may need to rely on inner wisdom and more tools or try out othe systems as i have done.All for more learning I suppose.It just depends. Try it and see what happens.
The system i’m using works more on the micro-level whereas the AYP relies more on global purifiers and more on letting go, you could say the bhakti yoga element.But all the letting go in the world may not work for some people or they may encounter road-blocks along the way…it may require a more tailiored individualised approoach that better adressses known and significant specific blockages in the subtle body,chakras etc… It’s a matter of try and see. You want a balancced and open third-eye and adequate balance in ida and pingala and this may be one of the achilles heel of this particular system, not to dish systems but just being critical. WEverye system has it’s weaknesses. The strength of that particular system is the meditation component,doability, beginner-friendliness and the efficiacy of the practices for most people amongst other things. I have nothing though but praise for AYP and the opensourced online acessible nature of this full -scope yoga system.It would be hard to learn this stuff quickly short of having some kind of guru or teacher or being a natural intuitive and primed for it or someone that had literally spent many years indeed trying to learn it themself as some perhaps do take this path…
How does one go into deep meditation?
Unaware.
I don’t post here as much as i used to but that’s my two cents.
You need the experience.Otherwise it’s just small talk i.e relatively mindless chit-chat, or simply hot air; i.e people chasing their tails in endless intellectual run-arounds.
[QUOTE=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… .[/QUOTE]
To say that the mind is nothing more than just electrical signals is just like saying that water is nothing more than just hydrogen and oxygen molecules, when in fact the whole spectrum of existence is there in a single atom, from the source of existence, to the vacuum of space, to electrons, and so on. The electrical signals that are happening in the brain are a by product of something else entirely.
“I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued”
Don’t align yourself with anything whatsoever. The so called 36 tattvas is just an intellectual model. Useful, but useless if you are clinging to it as though it is some kind of absolute truth. Existence is not something that can be contained by a mere intellectual model, it is well beyond that.
[QUOTE=PJ2001;14983]
In any case, deep meditation means complete emptiness of the mind?[/QUOTE]
Because one has not known of anything else except the activity of the mind, for one to speak of “emptiness of the mind”, is going to be absolutely meaningless. If one is interested in coming to know of meditation, one should have no assumptions whatsoever about what it is. Neither is there much point of speakign of a thing in which one has no direct experience. It is far better to do away with all words and descriptions and start sitting. When it arises, it will be without a doubt that you have come into contact with a totally different dimension of experience.
[QUOTE=PJ2001;14996]That sounds like your ego disappearing, which I believe I read is the delta state of the brainwaves (1-4hz per second).[/QUOTE]
Then when a man like Einstein has a penetrating insight into general relativity, it is nothing more than neurons firing off.
Do not get entangled in this idea that various different states of consciousness are mere brainwaves. But if you would like to hold onto the idea, then you can explore the whole existence through mere brainwaves.
Regarding post 21# Amir, above
Yip,that’s a good point.It’s beyond the mind.Conceptualisation gets in the way of true understanding. Direct experience.
Mind is just a construct. So how does it arise then out of consciousness? It’s just a tool for seeing reality. But it’s not reality. Why do we need to associate with form/mind ? We don’t but will there always be “mental” phenomena? By that i mean thoughts.We drop the identification with conceptual thinking. It’s there and may arise but it’s not pure consciousness.
Well Panormaix has done well since this last post:-
It is very difficult to arrive there, to me it is the most difficult thing to achieve for a human being. It might take decades to success.
Assuming he has had some awakening of Kundalni.I’ve had some mild movments of kundalin recently utlising the same system in some of the lowerchakras after waking up my thrid-eye more…I’ve had plenty of practice at meditaiton and refinements in technique etc so it should be just a matter of time. Also i’ve been trying to follow Amir’s sadhana…one meal a day suggesstion.My manipura has always been an issue but i think i’m making progresss.Have heard that when it gets to manipura there’s no going back… it’s unlikely to go retreat back and will stabilise. But these things can go off like fireworks…
The tattvas i could’nt tell you anything about. But i like the idea that matter emerged out of consciousness. That sounds like tantric and modern cosmology to me.
[QUOTE=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.[/QUOTE]
I agree the mind is not just brain waves, but perhaps the brain waves are a by product of the mind? 