I'm an ethical Christian

Read this first

Ethical Christiantity is a more complex form of christianity than simply an either or situation. An ethical christian will practice their religion ethically in some areas, and not so ethically in others, but may in the future expand their ethical practices to include other areas. In my case I ethically practice only in the area of that I follow the first five commandments, but my current lifestyle is hardly ethical in general, in that I indulge and don’t follow the other commandments. This is partly due to me choosing a moderate left-hand path for myself to explore certain areas of my life because I can, before I go off to a monastery to practice a much more ethical form of living.

Ethical Christianity is on a sliding scale. On one end you have Saints who do no wrong and have performed miracles and then on the other extreme side you have fundamentalists who are full of hate and give Christians a bad name. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle.

One can either choose to be more Saint or more extremist.

Christianity is a religion not a mode of consumption. It has a clergy, a defined code of conduct and a defined set of doctrines.

[QUOTE=David;48345]Read this first

Ethical Christiantity is a more complex form of christianity than simply an either or situation. An ethical christian will practice their religion ethically in some areas, and not so ethically in others, but may in the future expand their ethical practices to include other areas. In my case I ethically practice only in the area of that I follow the first five commandments, but my current lifestyle is hardly ethical in general, in that I indulge and don’t follow the other commandments. This is partly due to me choosing a moderate left-hand path for myself to explore certain areas of my life because I can, before I go off to a monastery to practice a much more ethical form of living.

Ethical Christianity is on a sliding scale. On one end you have Saints who do no wrong and have performed miracles and then on the other extreme side you have fundamentalists who are full of hate and give Christians a bad name. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle.

One can either choose to be more Saint or more extremist.[/QUOTE]

:eek: The moderator has graced these parts of the forums with his presence!

“Ethical Christianity?” Why not just call it “dogmatic secular humanism,” an ideology, so to speak, that changes with circumstances and prevalent societal ideals?

Once again, this is a matter of semantics. How do you define Christianity?

Oohhh! icwatudidthar wit tht linky!

… and you’ve both completely missed the point.

[QUOTE=David;48345]Read this first

Ethical Christianity is on a sliding scale. On one end you have Saints who do no wrong and have performed miracles and then on the other extreme side you have fundamentalists who are full of hate and give Christians a bad name. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle.

One can either choose to be more Saint or more extremist.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like the practice of self-restraint, which was quite common among Tohona-O’odham, Rock Cree people before the European missionaries came and raped their lands, decimated their philosophies.

I disagree with the notion that one could choose to be Saint or be inclined to extremes. One could choose to be neither, free from all labels and associations, and yet act ‘saintly’.

[QUOTE=High Wolf;48384]Sounds like the practice of self-restraint, which was quite common among Tohona-O’odham, Rock Cree people before the European missionaries came and raped their lands, decimated their philosophies.

I disagree with the notion that one could choose to be Saint or be inclined to extremes. One could choose to be neither, free from all labels and associations, and yet act ‘saintly’.[/QUOTE]

All religeous practices hold within them the opportunity for the divine experience, self realisation, call it what you want, they ALL hold this…David knows this and knows there are parts of it he isn’t practicing to the letter, he hasn’t chosen yet to do all that is required to achieve his spiritual goal…he knows this.

And its true that you can be a saintly type person and have no label, no religion to belong to…which proves that its a formula. A state of mind or no mind…

I missed my appointment…drat…lingered too long on here but it was worth it…

[QUOTE=kareng;48388]All religeous practices hold within them the opportunity for the divine experience, self realisation, call it what you want, they ALL hold this…David knows this and knows there are parts of it he isn’t practicing to the letter, he hasn’t chosen yet to do all that is required to achieve his spiritual goal…he knows this.

And its true that you can be a saintly type person and have no label, no religion to belong to…which proves that its a formula. A state of mind or no mind…

I missed my appointment…drat…lingered too long on here but it was worth it…[/QUOTE]

You keep missing the point.

I agree that all people in all religions have an opportunity to attain the divine if they do good deeds, pray, meditate. There are plenty cases of enlightened souls that appeared in Christian tradition, Islamic tradition, Jewish tradition. However, in these cases it is not the actual traditions to thank, but the individuals who did not practice these traditions faithfully. If they did, then they would hate non-believers and personally take it on themselves to convert them or destroy them - because this is exactly what the clergies of their tradition have done historically and what their scriptures have ordained.

You are speaking in romantic language, but do not realise that their scriptures contain material to hate non-believers, to kill, maim and condemn them.

My problem with the Abrahamic religion is two-fold:

  1. It promotes hate and exclusivism
  2. It teaches false teachings(judgement day, flat and young earth, geocentric earth, original sin, adam and eve)

It does not teach the true teachings

  1. The pre-existence of the soul
  2. The divine purpose of the soul to reconnect to the divine
  3. The all pervading divine reality underlying all
  4. The law of karma and reincarnation
  5. The multi-cosmos consisting of the various planes of reality
  6. The divine science of Yoga in order to liberate the soul
  7. The right to free and independent thought, action and speech
    8 ) The law of dharma

Most of these teachings have actually been formally recognised within Christianity as anathemas. Therefore Christianity is a religion that actually rejects the true teachings. It is therefore by definition a false religion.

Apart from a few nuts…Christians do not follow the bible to the letter, they have done their bad deeds here n there and all over but now it has stopped…I haven’t met a Christian that wants to kill and destroy…your alarm is set too late…who are the Christians that want to do this NOW?

Again you miss the point what is the point being a Christian if you do not hate follow the Christian bible? The people you are referring too are secularized Christians who do not follow their religion faithfully, most who do not even read their bibles anymore. They are hardly representative of their religions.

Those who are representative are the clergies of various Church organizations and are still up to their antics, many of which have been posted here recently. They have now moved their activities to third world countries where they spread hate against the indigenous cultures and try to harvest the local populations.

The other influence Christianity has on this world is ideologically in the form of capitalism which reproduces the same Christian teachings, except in a secular form: chosen ones become the capitalists elite; original sin becomes the consumer who must buy products in order to feel adequate; the clergy become the media and the academic world that we all listen to. We are still living in a society that ideologically is no different to the one people were living in, in Sumerian times.

In order to uproot this entire civilisation we must uproot the religion it has all sprang from. We must show the world how it has been fooled into accepting a primitive and tribal desert culture and how it is high time, we get rid of it - and rebuild civilisation on a proper dharmic foundation.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48408]
The other influence Christianity has on this world is ideologically in the form of capitalism which reproduces the same Christian teachings, except in a secular form: chosen ones become the capitalists elite; original sin becomes the consumer who must buy products in order to feel adequate; the clergy become the media and the academic world that we all listen to. We are still living in a society that ideologically is no different to the one people were living in, in Sumerian times.

[/QUOTE]

Pay attention to the bold kareng. Still not convinced, perhaps u might check out John Gray:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Straw-Dogs-Thoughts-Humans-Animals/dp/1862075964

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48397]You keep missing the point.

I agree that all people in all religions have an opportunity to attain the divine if they do good deeds, pray, meditate. There are plenty cases of enlightened souls that appeared in Christian tradition, Islamic tradition, Jewish tradition. However, in these cases it is not the actual traditions to thank, but the individuals who did not practice these traditions faithfully. If they did, then they would hate non-believers and personally take it on themselves to convert them or destroy them - because this is exactly what the clergies of their tradition have done historically and what their scriptures have ordained.

You are speaking in romantic language, but do not realise that their scriptures contain material to hate non-believers, to kill, maim and condemn them.

My problem with the Abrahamic religion is two-fold:

  1. It promotes hate and exclusivism
  2. It teaches false teachings(judgement day, flat and young earth, geocentric earth, original sin, adam and eve)

[B][I]It does not teach the true teachings

  1. The pre-existence of the soul
  2. The divine purpose of the soul to reconnect to the divine
  3. The all pervading divine reality underlying all
  4. The law of karma and reincarnation
  5. The multi-cosmos consisting of the various planes of reality
  6. The divine science of Yoga in order to liberate the soul
  7. The right to free and independent thought, action and speech
    8 ) The law of dharma
    [/I][/B]
    Most of these teachings have actually been formally recognised within Christianity as anathemas. Therefore Christianity is a religion that actually rejects the true teachings. It is therefore by definition a false religion.[/QUOTE]

& all of this is religious belief, whether it is all “True” or not, no one has proven.

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;48410]& all of this is religious belief, whether it is all “True” or not, [B]no one has proven[/B].[/QUOTE]

No it’s not a religious belief. You are putting it under religious context! It’s a hypothesis that could only be tested individually. Only somebody who genuinely seeks for higher consciousness could test it. Saying simplistically sth like “no one has proven” is too reckless of a thought.

Apparently you did not.

[QUOTE=David;48345]Read this first

Ethical Christiantity is a more complex form of christianity than simply an either or situation. An ethical christian will practice their religion ethically in some areas, and not so ethically in others, but may in the future expand their ethical practices to include other areas. In my case I ethically practice only in the area of that I follow the first five commandments, but my current lifestyle is hardly ethical in general, in that I indulge and don’t follow the other commandments. This is partly due to me choosing a moderate left-hand path for myself to explore certain areas of my life because I can, before I go off to a monastery to practice a much more ethical form of living.

Ethical Christianity is on a sliding scale. On one end you have Saints who do no wrong and have performed miracles and then on the other extreme side you have fundamentalists who are full of hate and give Christians a bad name. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle.

One can either choose to be more Saint or more extremist.[/QUOTE]This is basically what I meant with “Christianity has been considered obsolete by the human community itself” in another post.

People joining these sidetracks of Christianity basically says that with time and development, we need to strip away aspects of Christianity in order keep it relevant.

If “the human community” keep changing and altering Christianity what will it look like in 10-, 20-, or 150- years from now? Judging from a poster I saw at my university today, where the “Christian University Church” offered meditation classes - it seems as if Christianity [B]will be[/B] Hinduism - however, I hardly think it will ever be labelled as such : maybe it will be called “Neo-Christianity” :wink:

EDIT: I actually believed this thread was “real”. Seems as if it was merely an attack on SD.

[QUOTE=theseeker;48414]

If “the human community” keep changing and altering Christianity what will it look like in 10-, 20-, or 150- years from now? Judging from a poster I saw at my university today, where the “Christian University Church” offered meditation classes - it seems as if Christianity [B]will be[/B] Hinduism - however, [B]I hardly think it will ever be labelled as such[/B] : maybe it will be called “Neo-Christianity” ;)[/QUOTE]

That is the point I keep making, and reminding to SD. It won’t be called Hinduism, nor Buddhism, nor Christianity. It might have another name that will settle in our mind when the time is right. Personally, I prefer that there’d be no name at all! Let us get rid of the burden of language!

[QUOTE=High Wolf;48415]That is the point I keep making, and reminding to SD. It won’t be called Hinduism, nor Buddhism, nor Christianity. It might have another name that will settle in our mind when the time is right. Personally, I prefer that there’d be no name at all! Let us get rid of the burden of language![/QUOTE]

I know what it will be called! Chinduanity or…ah well, I tried.

Thanks for all the hearty laughs!

[QUOTE=High Wolf;48415]That is the point I keep making, and reminding to SD. It won’t be called Hinduism, nor Buddhism, nor Christianity. It might have another name that will settle in our mind when the time is right. Personally, I prefer that there’d be no name at all! Let us get rid of the burden of language![/QUOTE]

It is interesting to note that in India Hinduism was not called Hinduism. This term Hinduism was invented by the British in order to classify the religion of India, but prior to the British no such term was known by Indians. The term that did they use was dharma: In India there was Jain dharma, Buddha dharma, Sikh dharma and Vedic dharma(which was called Hinduism by the British)

What does Vedic dharma mean? The word Veda means knowledge and dharma means law, religion, nature i.e., Vedic dharma is the religion and and law of knowledge: the natural or scientific religion.

If we look closely at our society today we too now have a natural of scientific religion. Science is very much like a religion. It teaches you where we came from, what we are and the nature of reality. It also teaches us what is right and what is wrong. The only thing is, science is a growing field of knowledge and still cannot give us complete answers(like the Vedic religion does) but it does indeed indicate the answers:

In physics we now know that consciousness precedes matter and this proves that the soul preexists.
In psychology we now know that transpersonal states of conscousness exist and the mind can exist in disembodied states. This proves that that there is mental plane in reality outside of physical time and space and that life after physical death is a reality.
It has also been more or less proven that reincarnation is a fact from investigative scientific studies into past life memories.
In medicine the Vedic health systems of Yoga and Ayurveda have been proven in now hundreds of clinical studies. Proving that these systems do indeed work and improve our health and function.

In other words science itself is validating the Vedic religion and everything it teaches. It is therefore not a leap of faith to say that the Vedic religion is simply a more advanced scientific religion, and we should all sit and take notice of the Vedic religion now and learn from it in order to advance our own science further.

It is obvious the Vedic religion is the remenant of a highly advanced civilisation that has been lost in history. Anybody who reads the Sanskrit literature comes to this conclusion. The Sanskrit literature describe aircraft, weapons of mass destructions, robots, miscroscopes, spectrometers. For example in the Mahabharata, a weapon is described deployed by Asvadhamma called the Agneyastra(fire weapon) which releases a huge explosion of heat that incinerates the troops of the Padanvas. It kills 200,000+ people instantly. The description of the weapon and its after effects resemble that of a nuclear weapon. Incidentally, when archaeologists discovered the Harappa city(the largest city of the Indus valley civilisation) from 3000BCE, they discovered that the skeletons there were highly radioactive. The site had to be closed off by the Indian government due to the radiation. These skeletons were found scattered on the street, some holding hands as if a great calamity from above had befallen them. In the vicinity were also found shards of glass(which are produced in a nuclear blast)

The Mahabharata war lasted for 10+ days and the final death toll from the war is reported to be in the millions. This was obviously then not just a battle on the ground, but a war with weapons of mass destruction.

Ironically, the Indus cities that have been found are thoroughly modern. They have described to be like modern day manhattan. Highly planned, sewage systems, plumbing, toilets, multistoryed brick houses, kitchens, ovens and which held massive populations. All of a sudden these cities lost huge numbers of population.

[QUOTE=David;48441]Thanks for all the hearty laughs![/QUOTE]

Did I make you laugh? WOOT!

[QUOTE=High Wolf;48412]No it’s not a religious belief. You are putting it under religious context! It’s a hypothesis that could only be tested individually. Only somebody who genuinely seeks for higher consciousness could test it. Saying simplistically sth like “no one has proven” is too reckless of a thought.

Apparently you did not.[/QUOTE]

Hypothesis? that could only be tested individually? Who sold you that BS???
Empirical truth has to be testable. Spiritual relativism is bogus. :rolleyes:
& “higher consciousness” can be tested somewhat & has nothing to do with religious belief. Most of this stuff:

It does not teach the true teachings

[B]1) The pre-existence of the soul[/B]
[B]2) The divine purpose of the soul to reconnect to the divine[/B]
[B]3) The all pervading divine reality underlying all[/B]
[B]4) The law of karma and reincarnation[/B]
[B]5) The multi-cosmos consisting of the various planes of reality[/B]
[B]6) The divine science of Yoga in order to liberate the soul[/B]
[B]7) The right to free and independent thought, action and speech[/B]
[B]8 ) The law of dharma[/B]

making strong claims of these w/o correspondingly strong evidence is just religion. Even Free Will is up for question, guys like Ramesh Balsekar strongly debate for divine predetermination.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;48444]It is interesting to note that in India Hinduism was not called Hinduism. This term Hinduism was invented by the British in order to classify the religion of India, but prior to the British no such term was known by Indians. The term that did they use was dharma: In India there was Jain dharma, Buddha dharma, Sikh dharma and Vedic dharma(which was called Hinduism by the British)

What does Vedic dharma mean? The word Veda means knowledge and dharma means law, religion, nature i.e., Vedic dharma is the religion and and law of knowledge: the natural or scientific religion.

If we look closely at our society today we too now have a natural of scientific religion. Science is very much like a religion. It teaches you where we came from, what we are and the nature of reality. It also teaches us what is right and what is wrong. The only thing is, science is a growing field of knowledge and still cannot give us complete answers(like the Vedic religion does) but it does indeed indicate the answers:

In physics we now know that consciousness precedes matter and this proves that the soul preexists.
In psychology we now know that transpersonal states of conscousness exist and the mind can exist in disembodied states. This proves that that there is mental plane in reality outside of physical time and space and that life after physical death is a reality.
It has also been more or less proven that reincarnation is a fact from investigative scientific studies into past life memories.
In medicine the Vedic health systems of Yoga and Ayurveda have been proven in now hundreds of clinical studies. Proving that these systems do indeed work and improve our health and function.

In other words science itself is validating the Vedic religion and everything it teaches. It is therefore not a leap of faith to say that the Vedic religion is simply a more advanced scientific religion, and we should all sit and take notice of the Vedic religion now and learn from it in order to advance our own science further.

It is obvious the Vedic religion is the remenant of a highly advanced civilisation that has been lost in history. Anybody who reads the Sanskrit literature comes to this conclusion. The Sanskrit literature describe aircraft, weapons of mass destructions, robots, miscroscopes, spectrometers. For example in the Mahabharata, a weapon is described deployed by Asvadhamma called the Agneyastra(fire weapon) which releases a huge explosion of heat that incinerates the troops of the Padanvas. It kills 200,000+ people instantly. The description of the weapon and its after effects resemble that of a nuclear weapon. Incidentally, when archaeologists discovered the Harappa city(the largest city of the Indus valley civilisation) from 3000BCE, they discovered that the skeletons there were highly radioactive. The site had to be closed off by the Indian government due to the radiation. These skeletons were found scattered on the street, some holding hands as if a great calamity from above had befallen them. In the vicinity were also found shards of glass(which are produced in a nuclear blast)

The Mahabharata war lasted for 10+ days and the final death toll from the war is reported to be in the millions. This was obviously then not just a battle on the ground, but a war with weapons of mass destruction.

Ironically, the Indus cities that have been found are thoroughly modern. They have described to be like modern day manhattan. Highly planned, sewage systems, plumbing, toilets, multistoryed brick houses, kitchens, ovens and which held massive populations. All of a sudden these cities lost huge numbers of population.[/QUOTE]

Why push this mythological science fiction as history? Oh, wait, you’re a big ol’ Hindutva plant, I forgot. Sorry :rolleyes: