I'm an ethical Christian

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49249]Then there is something not quite right to joining the sex organ with the mouth or the sex organ to the hand or mouth to the mouth. Heck, then, most of the Yoga postures would be not quite right, such as joining the leg to back of the head :smiley:

If we go by your logic of only using our body to perform its functions we would have to get rid of many practices humans do. The mouth’s function is to consume food, break it down with the teeth and enzymes in saliva, and send it on its merry way down to the stomach to be digested. Yet we use this mouth also to kiss. Is kissing sinful now also? Do you kiss Thomas?[/QUOTE]

No, I no longer kiss. I am married, but I have been celibate for over seven years, and no longer have any sexual contact.

This is not a situation I prefer, but circumstances have forced the situation.

That’s the breaks sometimes, and I don’t get to have a girlfriend on the side, and don’t get to “spank the monkey” (not that I have any inclination towards solitary sex).

I could rationalize looking for a loophole, but I know what my faith teaches, and I choose to be true to my faith.

I haven’t suggested my beliefs be imposed on anyone else. I’ve just shared what I believe as a Catholic.

[QUOTE=thomas;49235]I should have been so “overprotective” of my two boys. I trusted them, and they both burned me. The truth is that it takes more work to be “overprotective” than it does to trust too soon, and I took the easier road, and failed them. Thank God for your good parents, or at least thank Sir Isaac. Trust me…you will know what “to do,” and I hope that time is many years from now, and there is nothing wrong with not going down that road at all.[/QUOTE]

No no no Thomas. Trust me, if you were me, you would regret not knowing anything. It is natural that my parents are like that since most Indians who grew up in India have an unspoken and unwritten code of modesty regarding sexual knowledge and matters. But, it is good to have knowledge on the workings of our bodies; the problem arises when people start developing fetishes for cracking sex jokes and talking about it all day long.

Why would I thank Lord Isaac for my lack of knowledge on these matters? I than - I mean, worship - Lord Isaac every day for his beautiful gifts of the codification of Calculus (along with Leibniz), the theory of gravitation, his three laws of motion, his theory of light, his theory of atoms, his work on sound (corrected by Lord Simon Laplace), his work on optics, his work on finite differences and binomial theorem, and what not…he was the most brilliant physicist to ever have lived…the only one who came fairly close to him was Subramanyian Chandrashekar. And even he admitted that he was a mere school boy being admonished by a knowledgeable school master (Newton) whenever he read the Principia.

All you heathens will be saved if you accept Lord Isaac Newton as your savior, the son of Space-Time, and the forgiver of all mathematical and scientific sins. Only he will forgive the stupid mistake I made on my calculus test, when I forgot to raise u to the 1/2 power while doing “u substitution” to integrate a function.

Newton had no concept of space-time. That was good old Einstein :smiley:

For me the master physicist is sage Kapila. He dwarves the Newtons, Einsteins and Schrodingers.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49329]Newton had no concept of space-time. That was good old Einstein :smiley:

For me the master physicist is sage Kapila. He dwarves the Newtons, Einsteins and Schrodingers.[/QUOTE]

So? It was Newton who brought Europe completely out of superstition and into a realm of rationalism and empirical observations. The apple falling on his head stuff was not the only accomplishment of Newton. His achievements were FAR greater than that. This man was a true genius. He even independently invented the concept of integration (shell theorem) and used that to prove the law of gravitation would work even if you assume the object to be a point particle. Too bad we don’t learn any of those other accomplishments in school.

Besides, you do realize that “Einstein’s” Special Relativity would have been created without Einstein being there? Experiments on light and it being a universal constant (no matter the inertial frame you were at with respect to it) were already done way before Einstein. He simply codified it and got rid of ether notions (which were about to happen anyway). You should research Poincar?. His paper on what we now call special relativity preceded Einstein’s.

However, Einstein deserves wholehearted credit for General Relativity, the theory that describes physics in even non-inertial frames of reference. Somewhat the same full credit goes for his photoelectric theory (though Bohr and Planck already worked on aspects of it before), resulting in the development of Quantum Mechanics, and his concept of space-time.

If you compare them on a holistic level, Newton is the greater man. He basically invented concepts on his own and most of them turned out true. Sure, some of the concepts he made preceded him but he was unaware, as was most of Europe, of those other previous developments by other civilizations. Einstein had centuries of work to help him. Newton had nothing but superstition and Christian dogma.

And I have a question. In Britain, do many scientists and intellectuals there take pride in Newton being English? Hell, I would too if I were a Brit.

Kapila? I have heard you talk about him quite a bit. Can I have links to articles that talk about him and Indian “metaphysics?”

Besides, you do realize that Newton, along with Leibniz, was the one who started the whole trend on frames of reference? He theorized the notion of absolute space-time while Leibniz theorized relative. Research “bucket analogy.” In this case, Leibniz was the more correct one…but Newton is still my God…or at least one of them. Leibniz and Einstein are the other two.

There is some evidence to suggest that Newton may have been familiar with Kerela school of mathematicians, which may have been transmitted to the West through the Jesuit missionaries. Prior to Newton formulating his laws of motion, the Vaiseshika school had already discovered the basic laws of motion. So Newton cannot be identified as a pioneer of physics in recorded history, when it is clear there were older scientists who had come to the same conclusions. Likewise, with Libnitz, he was not the first to work with binary, but there are older scientists like Pingala who had beat him to it in recorded history.

I use to find Newton and Einstein impressive, but then I realised how wrong they were. Newtonian mechanics is actually false, for it hinges on a model of a deterministic universe where every object is acted on by forces. Then Einstein takes this a step further by introducing inertia frames, but he too proposes a model of a deterministic universe, with the addition of the variables of space-time. They both propose a universe that is objective, real and governed by laws of time and space.

They are both wrong. The universe is not objective, it is not real and it is not governed by laws of time and space. Newton and Einstein have long been superceded by quantum physics. Einstein was wrong to reject the ether, because the ether has been confirmed by quantum physics. He hated quantum physics in fact and derided its predicates that two particles could interact instantaneously outside of time and space as "spooky action"
Today this is a fact and therefore Einstein was wrong.

Western physics relies too much on mathematical formalism and creates entities whose ontological status is debatable: like mass, weight, charge, resistance, power, work, energy, force, atomic number and tries to explain eveything through simple causality with a limited number of variables. In Vedic physics we do not get these errors, if something is unseen and unknown, it is simply called “adrishya” unknown. The existence of magnetism was realised by the Vaiseshika for they explained that a loadstone and a needle attract one another, but the cause of this is adrishya. They did not posit a separate force known as magnetism which is the cause of the attraction. As they understand causality was a complex phenomenon. As we know today in quantum physics, how everything that takes place is in relation with everything else.

The reason I call Kapila the master physicist is that he is the only who truly understand prakriti and how prakriti works and its interactive relationship with purusha. He correctly identified that whatever we call matter is just vibrations of the guna interactions at the substratum which exists in several phases(7*7 vibrational densities) All of the tattvas(waves, forces, electromagnetic energy, atoms, molecules) are just vibrations of the gunas. The correct view of reality is to understand everything as existing as vibrations, a set of frequencies interacting with one another. In order to isolate particular frequencies you create resonance with those frequencies. This is the grande unified field theory that Western physics is yet to realise, again because its full of a multiplicity of these mathematical entities - that do not really exist.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49348]There is some evidence to suggest that Newton may have been familiar with Kerela school of mathematicians, which may have been transmitted to the West through the Jesuit missionaries. Prior to Newton formulating his laws of motion, the Vaiseshika school had already discovered the basic laws of motion. So Newton cannot be identified as a pioneer of physics in recorded history, when it is clear there were older scientists who had come to the same conclusions. Likewise, with Libnitz, he was not the first to work with binary, but there are older scientists like Pingala who had beat him to it in recorded history.

I use to find Newton and Einstein impressive, but then I realised how wrong they were. Newtonian mechanics is actually false, for it hinges on a model of a deterministic universe where every object is acted on by forces. Then Einstein takes this a step further by introducing inertia frames, but he too proposes a model of a deterministic universe, with the addition of the variables of space-time. They both propose a universe that is objective, real and governed by laws of time and space.

They are both wrong. The universe is not objective, it is not real and it is not governed by laws of time and space. Newton and Einstein have long been superceded by quantum physics. Einstein was wrong to reject the ether, because the ether has been confirmed by quantum physics. He hated quantum physics in fact and derided its predicates that two particles could interact instantaneously outside of time and space as "spooky action"
Today this is a fact and therefore Einstein was wrong.

Western physics relies too much on mathematical formalism and creates entities whose ontological status is debatable: like mass, weight, charge, resistance, power, work, energy, force, atomic number and tries to explain eveything through simple causality with a limited number of variables. In Vedic physics we do not get these errors, if something is unseen and unknown, it is simply called “adrishya” unknown. The existence of magnetism was realised by the Vaiseshika for they explained that a loadstone and a needle attract one another, but the cause of this is adrishya. They did not posit a separate force known as magnetism which is the cause of the attraction. As they understand causality was a complex phenomenon. As we know today in quantum physics, how everything that takes place is in relation with everything else.

The reason I call Kapila the master physicist is that he is the only who truly understand prakriti and how prakriti works and its interactive relationship with purusha. He correctly identified that whatever we call matter is just vibrations of the guna interactions at the substratum which exists in several phases(7*7 vibrational densities) All of the tattvas(waves, forces, electromagnetic energy, atoms, molecules) are just vibrations of the gunas. The correct view of reality is to understand everything as existing as vibrations, a set of frequencies interacting with one another. In order to isolate particular frequencies you create resonance with those frequencies. This is the grande unified field theory that Western physics is yet to realise, again because its full of a multiplicity of these mathematical entities - that do not really exist.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I was familiar with the Kerala schools of Mathematics theory. However, more has to be unearthed to make a strong case against Newton.

I also knew of the discovery of binary numbers by Pingala for a long time.

I know what you mean when you mention the Vaiseshika and the obsessive need to know everything through mathematical formalism. However, being the science student I am, I love to be able to formulate equations to explain and predict the phenomena around me. That is the beauty of physics. That is why I worship these European scientists and all those who preceded them.

Besides, I personally think you done yourself a great disservice by not learning the mathematical formalism. You have very unique approaches on such matters and conceptions of the world around you. Considering your intellect, you would have been able to create equations to match such concepts of yours. You might have even become a great physicist and challenge the established notions. I know your opinions of such Western dogmatism but that is sometimes the best way to rectify something you disagree with: fighting fire with fire.

Besides, I personally think you done yourself a great disservice by not learning the mathematical formalism. You have very unique approaches on such matters and conceptions of the world around you. Considering your intellect, you would have been able to create equations to match such concepts of yours. You might have even become a great physicist and challenge the established notions. I know your opinions of such Western dogmatism but that is sometimes the best way to rectify something you disagree with: fighting fire with fire

The problem with applying mathematical formalism to the natural world is that you are imposing psychological entities(numbers, ideals) onto the natural world and expecting it to conform. This is known as the fallacy of psychologism. The natural world does not behave as our physical equations want it to. Take for example the ideal gas law and notice the word “ideal” Actual gasses do not behave as we conceptualize ideal gasses to behave. Secondly, all formulas that we create hinge upon our theories and theories are constantly coming and going. In Newton’s theory force is a real ontological entity and he recognises gravity as a force. In Einstein’s theory gravity as a force is not real, but rather space-time and energy are real. In quantum theory even space, time and energy are not real but rather wavefunctions are real. So you can see how mathematical formalism ends up creating imaginary entities that do not actually exist. How can you measure an imaginary entity?

I do not fall into the trap of the mathematical formalism and simply rely on verbal description. This is more accurate because all you are doing is saying what you are seeing. Rather than see force as a separate ontological category to be measured I see it is as touch(as force is known as a touch) So for me it is a qualia of experience. It is only real as far as my sensing of it.

Mathematical formalism is only important for practical calculations for engineers etc, but mathematical entities should not be mistaken to be real entities.

the level at which you guys love to hear yourselves talk is mind boggling…

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;49368]the level at which you guys love to hear yourselves talk is mind boggling…[/QUOTE]

The level to which you consistently do not contribute to any thread you post in with your one liners is mind boggling :smiley:

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;49368]the level at which you guys love to hear yourselves talk is mind boggling…[/QUOTE]

Your not wrong!!! Maybe there is a new type of yoga where you type every single thought that goes through your head. I wish I could read more of these posts, but my eyes start closing uncontrollably… I use yoga before bed to help get to sleep, maybe I should just read a few of these massive, tiresome, pointless posts lol

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;49373]Your not wrong!!! Maybe there is a new type of yoga where you type every single thought that goes through your head. I wish I could read more of these posts, but my eyes start closing uncontrollably… I use yoga before bed to help get to sleep, maybe I should just read a few of these massive, tiresome, pointless posts lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they could claim to hate fake gurus & then found Yogic Stream of Consciousness Babbling and get some Swiss bank accounts…

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49372]The level to which you consistently do not contribute to any thread you post in with your one liners is mind boggling :D[/QUOTE]

If it allegedly only takes me one line to not contribute, but it take Knucklehead & AhamkaraDeva full pages? what would that mean? :lol::lol::lol:

Lol that’s what it is!!!.. some people feel like they don’t contribute unless they have pages and pages, regardless of whether it’s mind numbingly boring, or if it’s philosophical masturbation. I would much rather quality, to only say what needs to be said, rather than quantity… actually I might give it a try… here goes…

The difference between the natural world and vendikhead reality is the immeasurable quantitative correlation between the known and that which is only known by me, because I’m special, and dwellers of the material world are trapped in their own ignorant ‘realness’ illusion. This is evident cause all the real scientists like Newton and Einstein agree with all the Hindu goblins and he agrees with my so again I’m special and I wish everyone thought like I do but they don’t so I’m better and there is quantum evidence and vibrations that prove I’m special, and ask my mum if you think I’m not, and the concept of space time make ignorant idiots not believe in ET and I read too many books on this stuff to turn my back on it now, even if it is rubbish and that’s why I’m angry and I need to make the following point:

  1. the Hindus rule everything and are stronger and better that you

2)everyone else’s religion is sh$t unless I change my mind one day

3)Everyone who doesn’t listen to me all the time is ignorant

4)Hindus were the ones who made me feel important and now I want everyone to agree

So we can see from the point made, well clever people can anyway, that the earths rotational pull is what drives women away from me and NOT my annoying attitude and approach to life. It’s not evidence that makes REAL vendikhead science but agreeing with the text. The fact may be twisted as long as it’s in accordance with my opinion and NOT stupid “WESTERN” (pthhh) scientists and I was meditating on the 7 ways of Sikdvjtheamamvjadeifrvsdv Sithuiumdnacsthatda and I don’t want friends anyway, cause if I’m alone I can always agree, and “WESTERNERS” (omg get a clue!!) have no idea about the REAL suoernatural world, only I do but it’s important to spend 13 hours a day on forums try to win, I’m sure I am, I have to be cause I’m 2nd to the throne of the sacred Sithyumanbathabavabavab Sukyuminumithrefthayaunamnau so there and you are an idiot :wink: and I’m am patronizing you :wink: and the wink does make it ok to insult your intellegence :wink: and “so called” experts (probably westerners pthhhhh) found “evidence” but who needs evidence when you have opinions and google website who agree with me, and I might make my own website that agrees with me and then you can’t beat me, YOU CAN"T BEAT ME. I’m a 4th degree black belt the vendikhead philosophy…

OMG that’s hard work. I’m exhausted and it’s only half of what a lot of em type!! lol… I got a bit of a high thought, so I can see the appeal of ranting on nonsense.

You guys are obviously very jealous of how educated and intelligent we are. It is so glaringly obvious. Otherwise why would you post all that above unprovoked?

I submit again to the objective reader: These people are the weakest links in the religion forum.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49384]You guys are obviously very jealous of how educated and intelligent we are. It is so glaringly obvious. Otherwise why would you post all that above unprovoked?

I submit again to the objective reader: These people are the weakest links in the religion forum.[/QUOTE]

dam!! I forgot to include that people are jealous!!! That would have given me another paragraph!!!

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;49386]dam!! I forgot to include that people are jealous!!! That would have given me another paragraph!!![/QUOTE]

Please refrain. I wouldn’t want a member of sound mind to hurt himself.
There are so few of us as it is :smiley:

@Pandara

oxoxox

And yes, you were one of my wonderful, kind, compassionate gay friends I was referring to.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49357]The problem with applying mathematical formalism to the natural world is that you are imposing psychological entities(numbers, ideals) onto the natural world and expecting it to conform. This is known as the fallacy of psychologism. The natural world does not behave as our physical equations want it to. Take for example the ideal gas law and notice the word “ideal” Actual gasses do not behave as we conceptualize ideal gasses to behave. Secondly, all formulas that we create hinge upon our theories and theories are constantly coming and going. In Newton’s theory force is a real ontological entity and he recognises gravity as a force. In Einstein’s theory gravity as a force is not real, but rather space-time and energy are real. In quantum theory even space, time and energy are not real but rather wavefunctions are real. So you can see how mathematical formalism ends up creating imaginary entities that do not actually exist. How can you measure an imaginary entity?

I do not fall into the trap of the mathematical formalism and simply rely on verbal description. This is more accurate because all you are doing is saying what you are seeing. Rather than see force as a separate ontological category to be measured I see it is as touch(as force is known as a touch) So for me it is a qualia of experience. It is only real as far as my sensing of it.

Mathematical formalism is only important for practical calculations for engineers etc, but mathematical entities should not be mistaken to be real entities.[/QUOTE]

I see your point and agree with you. I myself have felt the same way, despite my devotion to Physics and Mathematics. (Forgive me Lord Isaac, Holy Father Einstein, and Holy Spirit Leibniz). But I would like to point out an error in your post.

In fact, the correct equation for describing any gas, even if they violate ideal gas behavior, is called the Van Der Waals equation. It was discovered a loooong time ago (not really discovered, it was just a modification of the Ideal Gas law Equation). Gases deviate from the predictions made by Ideal Gas Equation due to the inter-molecular forces between the gas molecules and the finite volume actually occupied by the molecules. Hence, the equation turns from

PV = nRT

to

P = [nRT/(V-nb)] - [n^2a/V^2].

Where b is the actual volume occupied by a mole of the respective gas molecules and a, the measure of how strongly the molecules attract one another. Hence -nb is the correction for the actual volume of the molecules and the term on the right is the correction for IMF’s.

So gases do behave as we mathematically conceptualize them to in this situation.

And the uneducated low-lives trolling these forums do have a point. This discussion has deviated from the topic at hand. I think it is best if we continue this privately.

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;49381]Lol that’s what it is!!!.. some people feel like they don’t contribute unless they have pages and pages, regardless of whether it’s mind numbingly boring, or if it’s philosophical masturbation. I would much rather quality, to only say what needs to be said, rather than quantity… actually I might give it a try… here goes…

The difference between the natural world and vendikhead reality is the immeasurable quantitative correlation between the known and that which is only known by me, because I’m special, and dwellers of the material world are trapped in their own ignorant ‘realness’ illusion. This is evident cause all the real scientists like Newton and Einstein agree with all the Hindu goblins and he agrees with my so again I’m special and I wish everyone thought like I do but they don’t so I’m better and there is quantum evidence and vibrations that prove I’m special, and ask my mum if you think I’m not, and the concept of space time make ignorant idiots not believe in ET and I read too many books on this stuff to turn my back on it now, even if it is rubbish and that’s why I’m angry and I need to make the following point:

  1. the Hindus rule everything and are stronger and better that you

2)everyone else’s religion is sh$t unless I change my mind one day

3)Everyone who doesn’t listen to me all the time is ignorant

4)Hindus were the ones who made me feel important and now I want everyone to agree

So we can see from the point made, well clever people can anyway, that the earths rotational pull is what drives women away from me and NOT my annoying attitude and approach to life. It’s not evidence that makes REAL vendikhead science but agreeing with the text. The fact may be twisted as long as it’s in accordance with my opinion and NOT stupid “WESTERN” (pthhh) scientists and I was meditating on the 7 ways of Sikdvjtheamamvjadeifrvsdv Sithuiumdnacsthatda and I don’t want friends anyway, cause if I’m alone I can always agree, and “WESTERNERS” (omg get a clue!!) have no idea about the REAL suoernatural world, only I do but it’s important to spend 13 hours a day on forums try to win, I’m sure I am, I have to be cause I’m 2nd to the throne of the sacred Sithyumanbathabavabavab Sukyuminumithrefthayaunamnau so there and you are an idiot :wink: and I’m am patronizing you :wink: and the wink does make it ok to insult your intellegence :wink: and “so called” experts (probably westerners pthhhhh) found “evidence” but who needs evidence when you have opinions and google website who agree with me, and I might make my own website that agrees with me and then you can’t beat me, YOU CAN"T BEAT ME. I’m a 4th degree black belt the vendikhead philosophy…

OMG that’s hard work. I’m exhausted and it’s only half of what a lot of em type!! lol… I got a bit of a high thought, so I can see the appeal of ranting on nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Yes, now you are FINALLY learning. Just lay off the drugs and the jealously and you will be fine.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;49424]@Pandara

oxoxox

And yes, you were one of my wonderful, kind, compassionate gay friends I was referring to.[/QUOTE]

Isn’t “gay” kind of a harsh term to use? Or do “gay” people accept this identification? I really mean no offense; I am just wondering.