ooow Karen, you don’t want to bother with all that spiritual stuff, …its teatime
Edith, me mum ha
[QUOTE=Nobody;43293]Is the apple a Granny Smith? A Golden Delicious? A Pink Lady?
Is it organic? Was Alar used?
Is this the ‘forbidden fruit’ of Genesis?
Who cares, just eat the damn apple already. LOL[/QUOTE]
ha-ha-ha:)) we are so knowledgeable and intelligent!
Intelligence can be an obstacle or a great tool. it depends on how we identify with that intelligence.
if we see intelligence and concepts as constituting reality then this can be counter productive. but if we see them as tools, steps on a ladder per se,
then they can be very useful.
good hunting
kavon
[QUOTE=kavon;45518]Intelligence can be an obstacle or a great tool. it depends on how we identify with that intelligence.
if we see intelligence and concepts as constituting reality then this can be counter productive. but if we see them as tools, steps on a ladder per se,
then they can be very useful.
good hunting
kavon[/QUOTE]
probably I was talking about knowledge in the original post… nit an intelligence. too much information is around right now… too easy to get lost on the way…
back whose days people did not have so many options as such to what path to follow, what god to pray, to figure out what philosophy works the best, what rituals to do, etc…
Quite and Absolutely. I would only echo the immortal verses below :-
You are the Solitary Witness
of All That Is,
forever free.
Your only bondage is not seeing This.
It is true what they say:
?You are what you think.?
If you think you are bound you are bound.
If you think you are free you are free.
I am in all beings;
all beings are in me.
This I know.
No need to renounce, accept or destroy.
Realize Self in All and All in Self.
Be free of personal identity
and the sense of ?mine.?
Be happy.
The moment we are realised, distinctions disappear. What is there to then share and who is it who shares with whom indeed ?
[QUOTE=CityMonk;37926]theories… philosophy… metaphysics… spiritual texts…sanscrit sacral books…etc…
how easy is to lose one’s natural connection with the [U]true self[/U]… and get stack with bunch of knowledge…and a desire that comes from the ego to share that knowledge to seem more important to the world:)[/QUOTE]
Thank you reaswaran, I sent that on to my daughter. Could you put a source on that verse though I know source can be seen as irrevelant to something immortal- I’d still like to be able to label it for her. Namaste
CityMonk,
“But I still amazed by their pure spiritual faith”
There is nothing in particular about “faith” in itself, regardless of intensity, which is “spiritual”. Unless anger, fear, anxiety, sorrow, ignorance, delusion, greed, love, compassion, clarity, insight - all are “spiritual”, simply because there is nothing within one’s being which does not arise out of one and the same original nature. Otherwise, there is nothing “spiritual” about faith in itself - that which has been called the “spiritual” is simply a word that has been used to refer to that dimension which is birthless and deathless.
“I think that we were born happy and “enlightened”, and connected with the spirit.”
It is not really the case. Although, it is true that a child is far more in communion with a certain natural intelligence, but it is not something that can be called a state of liberation. Although all beings are of the same energy, very few ever come to realization of their Buddhahood simply because one has not initiated an effort to come to know oneself, through and through. A child lives very close to his original nature, but he remains in ignorance about it. The sage is in many ways child-like, but the difference is that he has come to a direct perception of one’s true nature, and has come to integrate this awareness from moment to moment. And the work is not a sit and do nothing phenomenon, one will have to invest every particle of one’s being into the expansion of consciousness.
“Do you think that an intelligence is an obstacle on the spiritual path?”
That depends on the use of it. There are those who are so intelligent, that they even manage to deceive themselves.
"It is absolutely fascinating how they keep their life simple and carry everyday routine tasks with a joy. "
These tendencies are not indications of one’s awakening in itself. In fact one may be highly irritable and yet awakened.
Hi Tony,
My pleasure. The verses are from the Ashtavakra Gita. Which is, in my opinion, one of the the most brilliant works (scriptures) I have ever read. Unlike most formal methods, the AG prescribes no methods to reach enlightenment. It simply states the truth in its inimitable fashion. I follow like most of us the eight limbed part of Yoga in my quest for enlightenment- but I can appreciate that there are some who may be advanced enough to attain enlightenment by a simple understanding of the AG. (the original dialogue is between King Janaka and Sage Ashtavakra (the name means the one with eight bends or deformities). Janaka is supposed to have attained enlightenment during the course of the discourse.)
You can get a pdf copy online at the following link:-
www.messagefrommasters.com/Ebooks/.../Ashtavakra-Gita.pdf
[QUOTE=TonyTamer;45995]Thank you reaswaran, I sent that on to my daughter. Could you put a source on that verse though I know source can be seen as irrevelant to something immortal- I’d still like to be able to label it for her. Namaste[/QUOTE]
Thank you
Spirituality is related to intelligence to some extent. The level of spirituality will surely effect intelligence as clean spirit with high level of spirituality will make intelligence grow also.
Here’s a bit from my last blog post: (clareactman22.blogspot)
Have you ever meditated or done yoga? If so, why do you do it and what happens when you do? I?ve done a bit of meditation in the past and was under the impression that you begin by stopping all thoughts? And then what? You relax?? Have you managed to get past this point?
A few months ago, I attended a class in Tasmania called ?Open heart meditation?. We were instructed not to focus on the mind and instead, told to focus on the heart chakra and accept any passing thoughts, rather than actively try to stop them.
During the meditation, I became aware of a strong, delicate white energy coiling up through my whole body which felt so powerful, I intuitively thought, there is something inside all of us that remains alive after death. I no longer felt like a physical being; I felt connected, made of energy and instinctively thought that there is something higher at work here.
Is this a valid explanation for having blind faith in something? I discussed my experience with the teacher afterwards who described the energy as ?Kundalini energy?: ?Energy that lies dormant at the base of the spine until it is activated, as by the practice of yoga or meditation, and channeled upward through the chakras in the process of spiritual perfection?. (answers.com)
I found out that there were people from all over the world and periods of history who had experienced and felt the same thing. Does this make it more valid? Are ?spiritual experiences? designed to shed light on the truths of the universe? Or, are they delusional experiences unique to human beings, to make us feel less alone?
You can’t begin by stopping all thoughts ! The mind is nothing but the flow of thoughts. An if thoughts have stopped, then the mind has stopped -which is when you have acheived realisation !
Watching thoughts (as a witness) is a technique called Antar Mouna taught at the Bihar School of Yoga. The mind does not like ot be watched so the effect of watching the mind is for thoughts to slow down or disappear. This is evidenced by the peace that you expereince in Antar Mouna. (Inner Silence). This is the preparation for Dhyan.
[QUOTE=ClareActman;46676] I?ve done a bit of meditation in the past and was under the impression that you begin by stopping all thoughts??[/QUOTE]
reaswaran,
“The mind is nothing but the flow of thoughts. An if thoughts have stopped, then the mind has stopped -which is when you have acheived realisation !”
To come to a space beyond thought may be useful, but if you remain in this state your existence will be reduced to a vegetable like existence. In such cases, it may be far better to hang oneself than to go on living unecessarily.
The moment of enlightenment is just the beginning. One will have to return to the world, with all of it’s shapes and forms. But now, one will have to come to integrate one’s awakening from moment to moment in daily living. You will have to deal with the mind and all of it’s business, with all of it’s tremendous activity, and yet still remain absolutely balanced and centered - one will have to be in the world but not of the world, in the mind but not of the mind. Once one has come to such a way of being, now there is not a single word, gesture, or action that arises from your being which is not a direct expression of Buddha-Nature itself. Those who have been focused on merely realizing a state of no-thought are simply fanatics, clinging to extremes. Because otherwise, this life as it is will be found to be a great misery, and to avoid one’s sufferings, one wants to rest in a state of thoughtlessness like a drug addict.
Once, a disciple asked the master, “What is the lotus blossom before it has arisen from the water?”
The master said, “A lotus blossom.”
The disciple then asked, “What is the lotus blossom after it has arisen from the water?”
The master said, “Lotus leaves.”
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;52706]reaswaran,
“The mind is nothing but the flow of thoughts. An if thoughts have stopped, then the mind has stopped -which is when you have acheived realisation !”
To come to a space beyond thought may be useful, but if you remain in this state your existence will be reduced to a vegetable like existence. In such cases, it may be far better to hang oneself than to go on living unecessarily.
The moment of enlightenment is just the beginning. One will have to return to the world, with all of it’s shapes and forms. But now, one will have to come to integrate one’s awakening from moment to moment in daily living. You will have to deal with the mind and all of it’s business, with all of it’s tremendous activity, and yet still remain absolutely balanced and centered - one will have to be in the world but not of the world, in the mind but not of the mind. Once one has come to such a way of being, now there is not a single word, gesture, or action that arises from your being which is not a direct expression of Buddha-Nature itself. Those who have been focused on merely realizing a state of no-thought are simply fanatics, clinging to extremes. Because otherwise, this life as it is will be found to be a great misery, and to avoid one’s sufferings, one wants to rest in a state of thoughtlessness like a drug addict.
Once, a disciple asked the master, “What is the lotus blossom before it has arisen from the water?”
The master said, “A lotus blossom.”
The disciple then asked, “What is the lotus blossom after it has arisen from the water?”
The master said, “Lotus leaves.”[/QUOTE]
The key tenet of Hindu Philosophy is that the purpose of life as a human being is self realisation. The body and mind are the vehicles for this purpose and once acheived, the body and mind are no longer needed. You are right to the extent that once you acheive realisation the body is unnecessary and can be dropped. It is only the few humans who need to remain in the earthly shroud to carry on the work of enlightening others who continue to inhabit their body…eg Buddha.
For those who choose to live on in thier bodies, they work from the standpoint of the paramatman. They will have thoughts, but there is no more attachment to actions or their fruits. So they function in a superconscious state.
I dont believe that you and I are saying anything different. Just different words.
Isn’t Antar mouna itself a meditation which leads to dhyana and onwards?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52885]Isn’t Antar mouna itself a meditation which leads to dhyana and onwards?[/QUOTE]
Antar Moun is a preparation for dhyan- yes. Literally it means the “Inner Silence” . Originated at Bihar School of Yoga.