Is Hinduism a religion?

It is surprising that a question like this would be so controversial and get answered in so many ways. The first impression I would imagine most people would have is of course it is a religion, it is formally recognised as a religion - the third largest in the world as a matter of fact - and it is so obvious it is a religion because it worships god/s. Alternatively, if the question was asked “Is Yoga a religion” most people’s first impressions are it is not a religion, it is a science, which just happens to come from the Hindu tradition. So if we go by first impressions: Hinduism = religion and Yoga = science.

Now the more interested amongst us who do not take first impressions and answers for granted, would do a little more research and it will become plainly obvious Yoga is identical to the essences of Hinduism. This will be born out by the fact that the philosophy of Yoga and the practices of Yoga is the philosophy of Hinduism and the practice of Hinduism. Therefore this means either that Hinduism is a science or Yoga is a religion? If Yoga is Hinduism and Yoga is a science, then Hinduism is a science. If Hinduism is a religion and Yoga is Hinduism, then Yoga is a religion. Which one is true?

I was watching an excellent discourse by swami Mukundananda, where he is giving a talk at the Kellogs business school, apparently one of the most prestigious business schools in the world. His talk is on spirituality and management. In an answer to a question on the differece between spirituality and religion, he says that spirituality is non-secetarian and universal, it is applicable across cultures and historical periods. Indeed that is what Hinduism purports to be - sanatana dharma - the way of the eternal or the knowledge of the essential nature of reality. In which case this means Hinduism is pure spirituality and hence a science.

If religion is understood as faith and a set of dogmas, then Hinduism most definitely cannot be a religion. Many say, and I was reading the abstract of an article in the Oxford University press echoing the same, that Hinduism as a religion is a modern colonial invention. In order to understand dharmic culture more coherently the West had to classify it under their framework, but later Western scholars of Hinduism would actually find this classification to be highly controversial, because Hinduism does not fit any of the major categories of religion, philosophy or science neatly. In fact the tradition itself does not have an equivalent words or concepts for these Western categories. The closest are: dharma for religion, but dharma means way/essential nature or order of something; darshana for philosophy, but darshana means a viewpoint or vision of reality; and the closest to science is vidya, but vidya means any kind of systematic knowledge including metaphysics and spirituality. Moreover, the Indian scientific method is a pure epistemology and not exclusively empirical.

Thus the question needs to be posed do we really need this term Hinduism when it is proving to be so problematic and become a liability for Hindus today or must we keep it to ensure that we retain our cultural integrity?

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57706]Yoga = science. [/QUOTE]Yoga is Philosophy.
Six Schools of Indian Philosophy
[I]by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati[/I]

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57712]Yoga is Philosophy.
Six Schools of Indian Philosophy
[I]by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati[/I][/QUOTE]

Not necessarily.

We cannot say that yoga is NOT a philosophy, NOT a science, NOT an art or NOT a religion. In it deepest heart, yoga is all of that, a philosophy, a science, an art and a religion deeply rooted in Bharata Dharma. Only people want to sell you something will say that yoga is NOT any one of these things.

[QUOTE=Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā;58986]We cannot say that yoga is NOT a philosophy, NOT a science, NOT an art or NOT a religion. In it deepest heart, yoga is all of that, a philosophy, a science, an art and a religion deeply rooted in Bharata Dharma. Only people want to sell you something will say that yoga is NOT any one of these things.[/QUOTE]

Well said!

Whether Hinduism is a religion or not depends on what “religion” means. I once jokingly told a friend that if Hinduism is a religion, then other faiths are mere cults. And if Other religions are religions, then Hinduism is not – it is something greater – a tradition.

Hinduism has a lot of religion inside it. Just like it has a lot of science and philosophy inside it also. But on the whole, Hinduism is better described a label for everything that has come out of classical Indian civilisation.

Yoga is a science and philosophy at the same time. Just as any science could generate a philosophy, and any philosophy could generate a science. Philosophy is the pondering part, the part where observer makes assumptions that would lead him to a hypothesis.
Science is the part where you become a participator and run an experiential research to test your assumptions. In that sense, philosphy is a priori to science. That is why philosophy is the foundation of university, of every scientific branch.

But for me to say that Hinduism is a scientific religion is very ambiguous. Because the term religion itself imposes an order upon the existing order of nature. In that way, religion doesn’t become congruent with human nature. Heed Osho’s note on this matter: religion and god, these are dirty words. Cast them aside, never to be used, if you seek for liberation.

It really depends on our definitions of science, philosophy and religion. If we go by the official definitions from the World English dictionary:

[U][B]Philosophy:[/B][/U]

philosophy (fɪˈlɒsəfɪ)

— n , pl -phies

  1. the academic discipline concerned with making explicit the nature and significance of ordinary and scientific beliefs and investigating the intelligibility of concepts by means of rational argument concerning their presuppositions, implications, and interrelationships; in particular, the rational investigation of the nature and structure of reality (metaphysics), the resources and limits of knowledge (epistemology), the principles and import of moral judgment (ethics), and the relationship between language and reality (semantics)

[B][U]Science[/U][/B]

Science (ˈsaɪəns)

— n

  1. the systematic study of the nature and behaviour of the material and physical universe, based on observation, experiment, and measurement, and the formulation of laws to describe these facts in general terms
  2. the knowledge so obtained or the practice of obtaining it
  3. any particular branch of this knowledge: the pure and applied sciences
  4. any body of knowledge organized in a systematic manner

[B][U]Religion[/U][/B]

religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)

— n

  1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
  2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion
  3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers

Now let’s apply this to Hinduism:

According to the definition of religion Hinduism is a religion because it certainly has rituals and devotions to god and strives for moral purification etc, but none of this is based on belief and Hinduism and Buddhism are the only religions that actually say that nothing should be believed, everything must be inquired into it. There are also no religious institution that organizes beliefs. According to the definition of philosophy Hinduism is a philosophy because it is rational inquiry into the nature of reality and studying its principles, but none of that is based on presuppositions, assumptions, beliefs or concepts, except it is based on a scientific method to determine its teaching known as pramanas: perception, inference and expert testimony. According to the definition of science Hinduism is a science because the first pramana is in fact observation and all pramanas are based on observation, but the majority of its conclusions are derived from inference and not measurements and validated through meditation and not experiments.

It seems Hinduism is all three at once, and none at the same time. It is a religion without beliefs and religious institutions; it is a philosophy without assumptions and theories; it is a science without measuring matter.

I think the best way to describe Hinduism is as Vimoh said the totality of Indian civilisation philosophy, science and religion. Its culture and ethos.

Good exposition SuryaDeva. I think that ever since the beast called religion exploded on to the world’s consciousness with the advent of early monotheism, Hinduism’s (or whatever the hell you want to call it – Sanatana Dharma, Vedic Culture, etc) has suffered.

Talking about comparative religion is fine. But when you put Christianity and Hinduism side by side, it’s a bit like comparing cars with washing machines. Such studies inevitably always leave out a large chunk of Hinduism.

Sadder still is the fact that Hinduism is judged on the basis of standards that stem directly from monotheism. So a Hindu is asked why he worships so many gods but he can’t ask back why Christians worship only one God. That response seems stupid. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=vimoh;60551]Good exposition SuryaDeva. I think that ever since the beast called religion exploded on to the world’s consciousness with the advent of early monotheism, Hinduism’s (or whatever the hell you want to call it – Sanatana Dharma, Vedic Culture, etc) has suffered.

Talking about comparative religion is fine. But when you put Christianity and Hinduism side by side, it’s a bit like comparing cars with washing machines. Such studies inevitably always leave out a large chunk of Hinduism.

Sadder still is the fact that Hinduism is judged on the basis of standards that stem directly from monotheism. So a Hindu is asked why he worships so many gods but he can’t ask back why Christians worship only one God. That response seems stupid. :)[/QUOTE]

Even more infuriating are retarded Quetzalcoatl-questions like these:

  1. Does it make sense to you that you will be reincarnated as a beetle in your next life?
  2. Why do you worship stones?
  3. Why do you drink from the Ganges?

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;60583]Even more infuriating are retarded Quetzalcoatl-questions like these:

  1. Does it make sense to you that you will be reincarnated as a beetle in your next life?
  2. Why do you worship stones?
  3. Why do you drink from the Ganges?[/QUOTE]

Those are easy to answer.

  1. What I will be reborn as depends on me and my actions. No “saviour” decides for me. Does it make sense to you that a dead Jew flew to heaven like a bird and that he will save you?

  2. I worship everything, stones included. Why don’t you worship stones?

  3. It’s cool clear water in some places. You should try it some time. :slight_smile: BTW, why do you drink the blood of Christ?

:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=vimoh;60622]Does it make sense to you that a dead Jew flew to heaven like a bird and that he will save you?[/QUOTE]
Jews will not go to heaven as they do not accept Jesus as lord and saviour. that is the only path to heaven according to fundamental christian tradition.

this is not meant to hijack the thread

[QUOTE=vata07;60654]Jews will not go to heaven as they do not accept Jesus as lord and saviour. that is the only path to heaven according to fundamental christian tradition.

this is not meant to hijack the thread[/QUOTE]

Ah yes. Apologies if I seemed to generalise there. Just that the question is associated with Christian missionaries in my mind. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=vimoh;60655]Ah yes. Apologies if I seemed to generalise there. Just that the question is associated with Christian missionaries in my mind. :)[/QUOTE]
oh, no offense taken at all. i was just stating what was taught to me…though i’d hardly call myself a christian these days.

[QUOTE=vimoh;60622]Those are easy to answer.

  1. What I will be reborn as depends on me and my actions. No “saviour” decides for me. Does it make sense to you that a dead Jew flew to heaven like a bird and that he will save you?

  2. I worship everything, stones included. Why don’t you worship stones?

  3. It’s cool clear water in some places. You should try it some time. :slight_smile: BTW, why do you drink the blood of Christ?

:)[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t trying to make fun of our religion; I was merely trying to list the rhetorical questions that are commonly stated to denounce Hinduism.

As for question number 2, I would have approached the question a little differently by citing Hindu philosophical concepts of Ishvara and Brahman and saying that the idols are nothing more than physical representations of the divine that aid in meditation, prayer etc.

Hi vimoh,

[quote]Originally Posted by Nietzsche
Even more infuriating are retarded Quetzalcoatl-questions like these:

  1. Does it make sense to you that you will be reincarnated as a beetle in your next life?
  2. Why do you worship stones?
  3. Why do you drink from the Ganges?

Those are easy to answer.

  1. What I will be reborn as depends on me and my actions. No “saviour” decides for me. Does it make sense to you that a dead Jew flew to heaven like a bird and that he will save you?

  2. I worship everything, stones included. Why don’t you worship stones?

  3. It’s cool clear water in some places. You should try it some time. BTW, why do you drink the blood of Christ?[/quote]actually I did not ask these questions. I didn’t even know you worship stones and drink water from the Ganges. Basically, though, I don’t find these questions retarded per se, so why not discuss?! :lol:

  4. Whoever asked this, didn’t ask why according to your belief you’re reborn as a beetle, but wether it makes sense. What sense does it make to be reborn as a beetle? Is it a punishment or a reward? Sure, if I think about it now and here, the thought of being a beetle basically is not appealing. And I would fear to become a beetle. So it’s somewhat a threat, so I’d guess that the story is that one will become a beetle if they behave bad, as it’s a lower lifeform, from the perspective of a human. Yet, being a beetle must be quite simple, you don’t reflect much, there is no good and bad, no ethical decisions have to be made. Life should be quite simple, you can’t do anything wrong. So actually being a beetle would unburden the reincarnated soul and be quite a pleasure for it. A relief. Any thoughts on this…?

On the whole ideo of reincarnation and so forth, I wouldn’t see what the point is at all. I have to behave some particular way and then end the cycle of reincarnation? Who planned this? God? What for? Enterntainment? To teach something? What? Why could god not just plant that knowledge into a being? It indeed makes as little sense to me as the Christian version of enforcing behaviour rules.

  1. Yeah, why do you worship everything? And do you worship me too? I worship circa nothing, what the point?

  2. So you only drink from the Ganges cuz you’re thirsty? Isn’t it actually some kind of worship as well, cuz the river is declared holy, as it makes the crops grow and feeds the people? Not that I’d be an expert on your religion, but sounds like you’d be spreading a misconception here. :slight_smile:

For your rebound-questions you have to ask a Christian, I’m none. Why do you assume I am one?

Furthermore, if you’re in the mood to explain stuff, I might ask you my “retarded” questions. Actually, though, they’re more inconvenient than retarded, which - I guess - is why helpless Nietzsche plays his games and lies to his fellow Hindu-friends. Btw, just asking, I don’t know any many Hindus, only those on this forum, is lying big in Hinduism? Is it ok to lie and all? Cuz the Hindus I know really lie a lot. Is it a virtue in Hinduism? :lol:

The questions I have would be these:

Awesome Hindus never get tired to note how superior anything Hinduism/India is, how advanced Hindus/Indians were x-thousand years ago. To some degree I agree, yet two questins concerning this:

  1. How come? How could ancient India get so ahead of other cultures? How was it possible for India to come up with sophisticated philosophy, religion, technology, science, math, etc.? What did the people have that others had not?

  2. How could it be possible that even though India was superior in so many ways, that it was occupied and under the rule of foreign nations for so many years? The superiority includs it’s wealth (see past GDP of India), with India also being a strong warrior culture, due to their superior science and philosophy surely ahead in warfare-tactics and strategy, probably having better weapons to advanced means of creating metal and such, also having a very large population, etc. etc. Maybe it’s not your opinion, but your fellow Hindu-friends claim that while India was very superior and sophisticated, the nations that conquered it were primitive, barbaric, and even today scientifically and philosophically backwards compared with ancient India. It’s quite hard to understand and has never been explained how Goliath Einstein could’ve been conquered by David Simpson.

  3. I don’t yet know what your reply to 1. is, mine has to do with circumstances. What would you think are the reasons that the offenders who conquered and occupied India did that? What led to their crimes? NOte that I’m not interested in justifying obvious crimes, but wish to understand history to learn from it.

  4. If you believe in reincarnation, would it not be possible that todays Hindus were British or Moslems in the days when India was occupied, and that the Indians of these times today are British and Moslems? So that reproaches like “you [= todays British or Moslems) hurt us [= todays Hindus]” make no sense from the perspective of Hinduism, cuz it could easily be the sould of a former offender who is now accusing the sould of a former victim? And if Karma exists, wouldn’t it even be plausible to put an offender into the position of the victim so that they experience the other side and learn how miserable it makes one feel? And to give them the chance to grow and not make the same mistakes, while it might be so tempting to become the new offender, become aggressive, attack innocent people, and so forth?

These are some of my “retarded” questions. Any thoughts…? :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Quetzalcoatl;60696]Hi vimoh,

actually I did not ask these questions. I didn’t even know you worship stones and drink water from the Ganges. Basically, though, I don’t find these questions retarded per se, so why not discuss?! :lol:

  1. Whoever asked this, didn’t ask why according to your belief you’re reborn as a beetle, but wether it makes sense. What sense does it make to be reborn as a beetle? Is it a punishment or a reward? Sure, if I think about it now and here, the thought of being a beetle basically is not appealing. And I would fear to become a beetle. So it’s somewhat a threat, so I’d guess that the story is that one will become a beetle if they behave bad, as it’s a lower lifeform, from the perspective of a human. Yet, being a beetle must be quite simple, you don’t reflect much, there is no good and bad, no ethical decisions have to be made. Life should be quite simple, you can’t do anything wrong. So actually being a beetle would unburden the reincarnated soul and be quite a pleasure for it. A relief. Any thoughts on this…?

On the whole ideo of reincarnation and so forth, I wouldn’t see what the point is at all. I have to behave some particular way and then end the cycle of reincarnation? Who planned this? God? What for? Enterntainment? To teach something? What? Why could god not just plant that knowledge into a being? It indeed makes as little sense to me as the Christian version of enforcing behaviour rules.

  1. Yeah, why do you worship everything? And do you worship me too? I worship circa nothing, what the point?

  2. So you only drink from the Ganges cuz you’re thirsty? Isn’t it actually some kind of worship as well, cuz the river is declared holy, as it makes the crops grow and feeds the people? Not that I’d be an expert on your religion, but sounds like you’d be spreading a misconception here. :slight_smile:

For your rebound-questions you have to ask a Christian, I’m none. Why do you assume I am one?

Furthermore, if you’re in the mood to explain stuff, I might ask you my “retarded” questions. Actually, though, they’re more inconvenient than retarded, which - I guess - is why helpless Nietzsche plays his games and lies to his fellow Hindu-friends. Btw, just asking, I don’t know any many Hindus, only those on this forum, is lying big in Hinduism? Is it ok to lie and all? Cuz the Hindus I know really lie a lot. Is it a virtue in Hinduism? :lol:

The questions I have would be these:

Awesome Hindus never get tired to note how superior anything Hinduism/India is, how advanced Hindus/Indians were x-thousand years ago. To some degree I agree, yet two questins concerning this:

  1. How come? How could ancient India get so ahead of other cultures? How was it possible for India to come up with sophisticated philosophy, religion, technology, science, math, etc.? What did the people have that others had not?

  2. How could it be possible that even though India was superior in so many ways, that it was occupied and under the rule of foreign nations for so many years? The superiority includs it’s wealth (see past GDP of India), with India also being a strong warrior culture, due to their superior science and philosophy surely ahead in warfare-tactics and strategy, probably having better weapons to advanced means of creating metal and such, also having a very large population, etc. etc. Maybe it’s not your opinion, but your fellow Hindu-friends claim that while India was very superior and sophisticated, the nations that conquered it were primitive, barbaric, and even today scientifically and philosophically backwards compared with ancient India. It’s quite hard to understand and has never been explained how Goliath Einstein could’ve been conquered by David Simpson.

  3. I don’t yet know what your reply to 1. is, mine has to do with circumstances. What would you think are the reasons that the offenders who conquered and occupied India did that? What led to their crimes? NOte that I’m not interested in justifying obvious crimes, but wish to understand history to learn from it.

  4. If you believe in reincarnation, would it not be possible that todays Hindus were British or Moslems in the days when India was occupied, and that the Indians of these times today are British and Moslems? So that reproaches like “you [= todays British or Moslems) hurt us [= todays Hindus]” make no sense from the perspective of Hinduism, cuz it could easily be the sould of a former offender who is now accusing the sould of a former victim? And if Karma exists, wouldn’t it even be plausible to put an offender into the position of the victim so that they experience the other side and learn how miserable it makes one feel? And to give them the chance to grow and not make the same mistakes, while it might be so tempting to become the new offender, become aggressive, attack innocent people, and so forth?

These are some of my “retarded” questions. Any thoughts…? :)[/QUOTE]

Yep. You just proved your retardation by asking ignorant questions that are ultimately tied into Christianized Western biases against inferior/uncivilized peoples.

Hey Surya Deva, Sarva, or Vimoh; you can take this one for yourself. Today is not the day for me to deal with Neo-Nazi retards.

[QUOTE=vimoh;60551]
Sadder still is the fact that Hinduism is judged on the basis of standards that stem directly from monotheism. So a Hindu is asked why he worships so many gods but he can’t ask back why Christians worship only one God. That response seems stupid. :)[/QUOTE]

Why not ask the question anyways. You may challange those who judge you by a standard that is inappropriate to reassess what their view of Hinduism. You may also help them reevaluate and consider how foolish/ignorant their question was to being with.

N or someone else can you comment on Q’s post? I am curious as well about the questions that he poses. Please just give straight forward answers as I try very hard to be an objective reader. Saying something is stupid (even if you are being baited by the question) isn’t really helpful to those of us that truly wish to understand others. If they are truly dumb questions just state that and then why they are such according to Hindu beliefs.

Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge in such matters.
Nameste
TeeA

[QUOTE=TeeA;60703]Why not ask the question anyways. You may challange those who judge you by a standard that is inappropriate to reassess what their view of Hinduism. You may also help them reevaluate and consider how foolish/ignorant their question was to being with.

N or someone else can you comment on Q’s post? I am curious as well about the questions that he poses. Please just give straight forward answers as I try very hard to be an objective reader. Saying something is stupid (even if you are being baited by the question) isn’t really helpful to those of us that truly wish to understand others. If they are truly dumb questions just state that and then why they are such according to Hindu beliefs.

Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge in such matters.
Nameste
TeeA[/QUOTE]

There’s absolutely no need to teach an asura who lacks the evolutionary development needed to express [U][B]empathy[/B][/U].

Besides, I have found that explaining the above to Westerners/Christians has consistently produced less than satisfactory results.

“You just gotta convert. That’s all there is to it.”
“Hahah, stupid fucking Indians worshiping cows and drinking their piss.”
“You Hindu bastards and your worshiping of mutant gods and constant ringing of temple bells.”
“So…you mean I’ll be reincarnated as an animal? HAHAHAHAHAHA walks away

Nevertheless, you are very different from most Christians out there. I will explain when I have the time later; I really need to get back to studying for my exams tomorrow. Wish me luck. :smiley:

Good luck on your exams! I hope you get all A+!!! :slight_smile: