Is the OT the most barbaric and savage scripture in the world?

Spirituality Religion
#91

[QUOTE=Star Light;46666]I in no way think that I am superior to anyone else. Nor do I follow a specific belief system, especially a Judeo/Christian one. I also do not take genocide lightly in any form for any reason. Many wars have been fought and many people have died in the name of religions across the globe. I also have a problem with the “Christian Run Media” in the US. I think it is despicable. I have always questioned the views of others especially my christian acquaintances. I consider myself a citizen of the earth. I am simply intolerant of intolerance.[/QUOTE]

As am I Star Light. Intolerant of intolerance. A phrase I have used to describe myself multiple times. But the Western World is the environment you grew up in and no Westerner is entirely free of even the slightest bit of Christianized/Western bias and PC. I understand it is hard for you to come out of the shell of Universalism and the belief of the equality of all religions. But how else would you characterize a scripture with such barbaric and evil content in it, content that is more prevalent in that particular scripture than in any other scripture? A scripture, (along with the NT), that was responsible for galvanizing crusades, genocides, witch burnings, colonialism/imperialism justifications, White supremacy, and so forth? More or less barbaric? More or less wrong than others? No. Simply barbaric and wrong. Relativism does not (not should it be used) need to be used in a belief system that is the most prevalent in the world (and the cause of much ruin).

#92

Funny, most Christians think of the US media a liberal and godless. They don’t seem to be friendly towards Christians at all.

#93

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46681]As am I Star Light. Intolerant of intolerance. A phrase I have used to describe myself multiple times. But the Western World is the environment you grew up in and no Westerner is entirely free of even the slightest bit of Christianized/Western bias and PC. I understand it is hard for you to come out of the shell of Universalism and the belief of the equality of all religions. But how else would you characterize a scripture with such barbaric and evil content in it, content that is more prevalent in that particular scripture than in any other scripture? A scripture, (along with the NT), that was responsible for galvanizing crusades, genocides, witch burnings, colonialism/imperialism justifications, White supremacy, and so forth? More or less barbaric? More or less wrong than others? No. Simply barbaric and wrong. Relativism does not (not should it be used) need to be used in a belief system that is the most prevalent in the world (and the cause of much ruin).[/QUOTE]
All religions have caused harm. Yes I agree that the OT in some parts is barbaric, but I also believe that all war is wrong. Whether you kill one person or kill 1,000 it’s still wrong. Also, you have no idea how I was raised. Not everyone who is from the US has the same values. I was raised to have an open mind and to love all. I agree that the US media is very much run by Christians and anyone that questions it is squashed quickly. I do not like being lumped into a box of your typical westerner. I am not. I truly believe no religion is better than another. They all have their faults.

#94

[QUOTE=thomas;46698]Funny, most Christians think of the US media a liberal and godless. They don’t seem to be friendly towards Christians at all.[/QUOTE]

I am defining media as methods of communication that influence the masses. It is obvious that US media has Christian biases. Even those who are godless and liberal have blatantly obvious Christian biases.

Look around you. Hatred against homosexuals, people thinking their country was founded on Christian ideals, people believing in the superiority of their precious “Christian” values, and so forth. You would be surprised what people really think once you begin to speak with candor about such topics. That shows you how biased the media and the education system is.

I even had a Chinese guy come and tell me he believed Whites, and pretty much everything they touched, were superior. He began to spout SUCH misconceptions…misconceptions I used to have when I stuck to what Western schools and media “taught” and implied; until I did research and found out the truth for myself.

#95

I truly believe no religion is better than another. They all have their faults.

Then show us any equivalent Hindu scripture that ordains genocide and rape of women. If you cannot, then clearly we have a case here that Hinduism is a more peaceful and civilised religion than Christianity.

#96

[QUOTE=Star Light;46699]All religions have caused harm. Yes I agree that the OT in some parts is barbaric, but I also believe that all war is wrong. Whether you kill one person or kill 1,000 it’s still wrong.[/QUOTE]

So, if certain oppressed minorities in Myanmar/Burma were air-dropped weapons, an AK47 for everyone, they would be totally “wrong” to “go to war” against the illegal non-democratic military regime running their country?
No war can possibly be “just”?

(meanwhile, India has a great relationship with Myanmar/Burma’s military regime… I wonder how other board members feel about that… :rolleyes:)

#97

[QUOTE=Star Light;46699]All religions have caused harm. Yes I agree that the OT in some parts is barbaric, but I also believe that all war is wrong. Whether you kill one person or kill 1,000 it’s still wrong. Also, you have no idea how I was raised. Not everyone who is from the US has the same values. I was raised to have an open mind and to love all. I agree that the US media is very much run by Christians and anyone that questions it is squashed quickly. I do not like being lumped into a box of your typical westerner. I am not. I truly believe no religion is better than another. They all have their faults.[/QUOTE]

I never said anyone from the US has the same values. I implied that most Americans have different degrees of certain biases (Christian and Western) and ignorance. It is the heritage of America. It is the environment you grew up in. I too live in the U.S you know.

Besides, I was raised in India. I was taught to love all and see the good in all. Until I figured out how much B.S that was. What did I see in the world? Deceitful dissemination of Christianized/Westernized propaganda (affecting everything), no improvement from Christians and Muslims even after centuries of having the opportunity to learn, intolerance, and so forth. Muslims still hate Hindus and Christians still scorn Hindus and seek to undermine them. The West has a subconscious aversion to Hinduism, as evidenced by the posts of many of these supposed fair minded people. Look at Flex Penguin’s posts, in which he implies Indian Bollywood actors are gay because they dance, makes fun of our skin color, says “old Indian men have a preference for younger men,” and so forth. Look at Indra Deva’s post which basically says the West can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants (and then tries to cover it up by saying, but its the truth). But of course, you don’t see those posts and instead choose to harp on a veritable truth said by someone who isn’t PC like the rest of the people on these forums.

Now, I won’t go ahead and make any assumptions yet. You are new to the forums and haven’t posted much so I can’t discern much from that. What I am interested in seeing (and will take note of) is the level of Western bias you have. I doubt it is more than negligible but hey, many people on these forums said much the same thing you are saying now and ended up posting anti-Hindu links and defaming India and Hinduism.

#98

You didn’t imply at all, you straight out insisted.

Besides, I was raised in India. I was taught to love all and see the good in all. Until I figured out how much B.S that was. What did I see in the world? Deceitful dissemination of Christianized/Westernized propaganda (affecting everything), no improvement from Christians and Muslims even after centuries of having the opportunity to learn, intolerance, and so forth. Muslims still hate Hindus and Christians still scorn Hindus and seek to undermine them. The West has a subconscious aversion to Hinduism, as evidenced by the posts of many of these supposed fair minded people. Look at Flex Penguin’s posts, in which he implies Indian Bollywood actors are gay because they dance, makes fun of our skin color, says “old Indian men have a preference for younger men,” and so forth. Look at Indra Deva’s post which basically says the West can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants (and then tries to cover it up by saying, but its the truth).

You’re totally taking that out of context. SL, please feel free to go back & read my posts & get back to me with anything that you perceive as racism… I’m sure a rational mind will understand my arguments are not racism against India but simply realistic (much like when Nietzsche discovered that his idealism was “BS”)

Now, I won’t go ahead and make any assumptions yet. You are new to the forums and haven’t posted much so I can’t discern much from that. What I am interested in seeing (and will take note of) is the level of Western bias you have. I doubt it is more than negligible but hey, many people on these forums said much the same thing you are saying now and ended up posting anti-Hindu links and defaming India and Hinduism.

Yeah, anything that doesn’t agree with your Hindutva programming or is critical against India or Hinduism is evil, blahblahblah we know we know…

#99

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46709]So, if certain oppressed minorities in Myanmar/Burma were air-dropped weapons, an AK47 for everyone, they would be totally “wrong” to “go to war” against the illegal non-democratic military regime running their country?
No war can possibly be “just”?

(meanwhile, India has a great relationship with Myanmar/Burma’s military regime… I wonder how other board members feel about that… :rolleyes:)[/QUOTE]

Have you considered that India doesn’t want to get involved in another countries affairs because it can’t afford to create animosities in the region? What do you think will happen to the emotions in the region if we start helping the masses (as much as we would like to) in Burma and spreading democracy in a place surrounded by totalitarian and communist regimes? It would be a political advantage for China and Pakistan who would do anything to weaken India.

Of course you fail to consider this. As much as it seems nice to help the oppressed, you simply have to consider the larger picture and think for yourself first in the international politics scale. Even the U.S supported dictatorships and regimes that suppressed the masses for their own interests. But does your Western supremacist mind absorb that? Not likely.

#100

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46708]Then show us any equivalent Hindu scripture that ordains genocide and rape of women. If you cannot, then clearly we have a case here that Hinduism is a more peaceful and civilised religion than Christianity.[/QUOTE]

I will not engage in a " who’s is better" argument with you. I will again say that all religions have their faults. My only real opinion is that everyone needs to take a look at their religions, take note of what is wrong with them, and learn from it.

#101

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46711]You didn’t imply at all, you straight out insisted.[/QUOTE]

Whoops you are right. Thank you for pointing out an inconsistency. I didn’t mean to make it, but I often make them when my thought process and my attempt to convey what I am thinking converge.

#102

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46713]Have you considered that India doesn’t want to get involved in another countries affairs because it can’t afford to create animosities in the region? What do you think will happen to the emotions in the region if we start helping the masses (as much as we would like to) in Burma and spreading democracy in a place surrounded by totalitarian and communist regimes? It would be a political advantage for China and Pakistan who would do anything to weaken India.

Of course you fail to consider this. As much as it seems nice to help the oppressed, you simply have to consider the larger picture and think for yourself first in the international politics scale.[/quote]
So, your defense of India’s support of the Myanmar military regime’s crimes against humanity is a “go along to get along” mindset? That it’s better to look the other way to “maintain regional stability”? Seriously???
Really, your position is totally Pro-India at the cost of innocent lives. India does more trade with Burma than anyone else in the region & probably the world. Shouldn’t they do something, or should they just ignore genocide? Should we all just ignore genocides if it’s to our advantage? How many of your Hindutva blood brotherhood agree with this insane stance?

Even the U.S supported dictatorships and regimes that suppressed the masses for their own interests. But does your Western supremacist mind absorb that? Not likely.

You don’t think before you post, do you? Maybe we should have board members pass a Turing test… some members may be bots. They sure answer like Hindutva algorithms…

#103

I will not engage in a " who’s is better" argument with you. I will again say that all religions have their faults. My only real opinion is that everyone needs to take a look at their religions, take note of what is wrong with them, and learn from it.

Why not? Why will you not acknowledge who is better? We know all things have their faults, but not all things have the same amount of faults. I acknowledge the faults in Puranic and Bhakti Hinduism, and would prefer they are removed to have a pure faultless Vedic Hinduism divested of superstition, mysticism and mythology. However, the faults of Puranic and Bhakti Hinduism are like virtues compared to the faults of the Abrahamic religions, which include genocide, infanticide, raping women etc

I have a problem with relativist and pacifist mindsets like your own, because nobody can be a relativst, everybody has to accept some position in the end and then they have to either fight for that position or end up being defeated. You are living in a Christianized world. If you have a problem with that, then do something about it. I for one do not want to live in a Christianized world.

#104

[QUOTE=Star Light;46714]I will not engage in a " who’s is better" argument with you. I will again say that all religions have their faults. My only real opinion is that everyone needs to take a look at their religions, take note of what is wrong with them, and learn from it.[/QUOTE]

And that is where you fail to understand that some religions have more faults than others. Some followers of those religions have not changed even after centuries. They keep using and abusing while we Hindus keep tolerating and tolerating. Enough is enough. Hindus should recognize evil for what it is and not hide behind the curtain of niceties and political correctness.

Note that we don’t want to destroy the religions themselves. We seek to eradicate the bad in those religions and ameliorate the negative influences Abrahamic religions have had in the world through intellectual awareness. Only then will there be a hope for peace.

#105

THAT IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF YOUR RESPONSE TO ME ON INDIA’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF “MYANMAR”.

Again you prove yourself a flaming hypocritical troll.

Note that we don’t want to destroy the religions themselves. We seek to eradicate the bad in those religions and ameliorate the negative influences Abrahamic religions have had in the world through intellectual awareness. Only then will there be a hope for peace.

There will only be peace when you destroy all the religions you don’t like? Do you guys listen to yourselves or do you just mindlessly regurgitate whatever drivel your Hindutva programmers shove down your throat? :roll:

#106

I respect people who have well defined viewpoints on life and the world and fight for that viewpoint. It shows that they have the courage to think and speak freely. I have little respect for what I consider to be intellectuals cowards who maintain all viewspoints are relative and do not fight to maintain their viewpoint that all is relative.

#107

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46710]I never said anyone from the US has the same values. I implied that most Americans have different degrees of certain biases (Christian and Western) and ignorance. It is the heritage of America. It is the environment you grew up in. I too live in the U.S you know.

Besides, I was raised in India. I was taught to love all and see the good in all. Until I figured out how much B.S that was. What did I see in the world? Deceitful dissemination of Christianized/Westernized propaganda (affecting everything), no improvement from Christians and Muslims even after centuries of having the opportunity to learn, intolerance, and so forth. Muslims still hate Hindus and Christians still scorn Hindus and seek to undermine them. The West has a subconscious aversion to Hinduism, as evidenced by the posts of many of these supposed fair minded people. Look at Flex Penguin’s posts, in which he implies Indian Bollywood actors are gay because they dance, makes fun of our skin color, says “old Indian men have a preference for younger men,” and so forth. Look at Indra Deva’s post which basically says the West can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants (and then tries to cover it up by saying, but its the truth). But of course, you don’t see those posts and instead choose to harp on a veritable truth said by someone who isn’t PC like the rest of the people on these forums.

Now, I won’t go ahead and make any assumptions yet. You are new to the forums and haven’t posted much so I can’t discern much from that. What I am interested in seeing (and will take note of) is the level of Western bias you have. I doubt it is more than negligible but hey, many people on these forums said much the same thing you are saying now and ended up posting anti-Hindu links and defaming India and Hinduism.[/QUOTE]

I think it is disgusting that someone would make fun of someone based on skin color, or if they choose to make their living acting in a Bollywood movie (I happen to think that they are vibrant films and enjoy watching them). I also do not believe that the West can do whatever they want whenever they want, and if they do they need to be held accountable for that. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I happen to think that Indian culture is joyful, vibrant, and spiritual. I have no intent of defaming India or Hinduism. I also have no intent of putting down the US. I do recognize that the US has done many questionable things in the past, but the same can be said for cultures across the globe.

#108

What does India’s support for Myamar have anything to do with this discussion or Hinduism? That is a matter of Indian politics and if you want to discuss it, post a thread in the community forum.

#109

do recognize that the US has done many questionable things in the past, but the same can be said for cultures across the globe.

Yeah, and two wrongs have never made a right. You don’t ignore wrong things just because there are wrong things elsewhere too, you put what is wrong right.

This is what we are doing by pointing out how barbaric the OT part of the bible is and how the OT should be removed from the bible. How is this different from my insistance that the Bhakti and Puranic Hinduism should be removed from Hinduism.

We should strive towards something which is faultless and free of error. Why tolerate faults and errors? First, let us begin with the most severe of faults and errors in religion and that is Christianity and Christian ideology that rules this world. Let us purge this world of that errorneous ideology and replace it with what is right. The future generations of humans will thank us for it.

#110

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46716]So, your defense of India’s support of the Myanmar military regime’s crimes against humanity is a “go along to get along” mindset? That it’s better to look the other way to “maintain regional stability”? Seriously???
Really, your position is totally Pro-India at the cost of innocent lives. India does more trade with Burma than anyone else in the region & probably the world. Shouldn’t they do something, or should they just ignore genocide? Should we all just ignore genocides if it’s to our advantage? How many of your Hindutva blood brotherhood agree with this insane stance?[/QUOTE]

Alas! Look at how America refused to help the revolutionaries in the French Revolution! They used political expediency for the sake of their nation when they knew France and Britain, the two most powerful nations in Europe, would be at their heels from that moment on! They cozied up to the pre-Communist dictatorship regime in Cuba while ignoring the cries of the people who suffered! What tyranny! They conquered Haiti so the Germans wouldn’t find a stronghold in the Caribbean! What a violation of Democratic principles! America once aspired to conquer Canada, Cuba, and any other Central American lands they found fit to turn into a slave state or a state meant to balance the Senate equilibrium between the North and South! How atrocious! America isn’t helping the “oppressed” people of China, Vietnam, Cuba, Burma, and other communist/totalitarian regimes by providing aid and weapons! How hypocritical! They ignored the genocides in Rwanda, this powerhouse of democracy and liberty! How Satanic!

After your post, I just realized how much of a anti-Hindu and anti-Indian you were. First of all, I never said India supported Burma. They merely just don’t want to get involved in any messes, especially when India itself is in a state of growth. Second of all

http://www.indiaonestop.com/tradepartners/indias_trade_partners.html

you are the most idiotic American I have ever met. Burma is not even on the top most countries India trades with list. Once again, where the hell do you get your info? Confirm the facts in the link provided by using other sources if you don’t trust this one.

You are like the typical American person I find on the streets protesting against or for something that holds his tiny mind in rapture. I have already told you what would happen if India did help (as much as it wants to). Instability in that region will be caused. The economy and resources of India would be laid to waste especially when its infrastructure and economy still needs much development. Pakistan and China, nations who seek to undermine the us, will gain political leeway and influence. The region will turn into a hell-hole, with tense relations, militarization, and greater chances of war (especially with Pakistan). India at such a precarious stage cannot help Burma, kind of like how America couldn’t help France because it was a developing country and had too many European powers resenting it (and I actually agreed with this decision). Of course, stupid Americans at that time were furious, given their lack of intelligence and foresight. Once again, your info is so ****** up. India’s current government is [B]anti-Hindu.[/B] Too bad for that argument eh?

In all honesty, once again, I wish India could help Burma. But we have to be in a position of considerable strength and influence to do so and helping Burma at this stage will only cause greater harm for both India and Burma.