[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46178]You sure like to throw accusations about. Prove that the post I wrote is copy and pasted from elsewhere ;)[/QUOTE]
that doesn’t happen unless your c&p from somewhere else. Sorry, it’s a fact. You can lie about it if you want but you might upset someone…
Wait, you’re Indian and you live in the UK and you’re on a Yoga Forum accusing people of being racist against Indians???
No, I am accusing you of being a racist because you have said racist things. I am not accusing anybody else here of being racist 
You are an obvious racist.
And Yoga has obviously done you no good 
To get this thread kick-started again, here is a comment by none other than a bishop who is criticising his own religion:
The Bible has been used for centuries by Christians as a weapon of control. To read it literally is to believe in a three-tiered universe, to condone slavery, to treat women as inferior creatures, to believe that sickness is caused by God’s punishment and that mental disease and epilepsy are caused by demonic possession. When someone tells me that they believe the Bible is the ‘literal and inerrant word of God,’ I always ask, ‘Have you ever read it’?" Bishop John Shelby Spong. 2
The problem with the Old and New Testaments is that they are both dated pieces of literature that reflect the values and mores of those who wrote them between 1000 BCE and 135 CE. Many passages in the Old Testament reflect a tribal mentality that portrays God as hating everyone the people of Israel hated. It also portrays God as killing the firstborn male in every household in Egypt on the night of the Passover; justifies the institution of slavery (except for fellow Jews) and defines women as the property of men. Note that even the Ten Commandments exhort us “not covet our neighbor’s house, his wife, his slaves, his ox, his ass, etc.” The neighbor is clearly a male, and the things that we are forbidden to covet are all male possessions. These Hebrew Scriptures, however, also define God as love, justice and as a universal being. In the portrait of the “Servant” in Isaiah 40-55 the Hebrew Scriptures portray human life as capable of giving itself away and even of acting in such a way as to draw the pain out of others, absorb it and return it as love. The New Testament portrays Paul as believing that slavery is good if it is kind. Paul also reveals attitudes toward women that are today deeply embarrassing: “I forbid a woman to have authority over a man.” “Women should keep quiet in church.” Bishop John Shelby Spong. 3
Biblical scholar Raymond Schwager:
“… has found 600 passages of explicit violence in the Hebrew Bible [a.k.a. Old Testament], 1000 verses where God’s own violent actions of punishment are described, 100 passages where God expressly commands others to kill people, and several stories where God irrationally kills or tries to kill for no apparent reason. Violence … is easily the most often mentioned activity in the Hebrew Bible.” 6
http://www.religioustolerance.org/god_cana.htm
It is very explictly clear that the god of the OT religion is a mass murdering maniac, no different to a Hitler, Stalin or Mao.
It is obvious this scripture was composed by primitive and savage people who created an equally primitive and savage god
in their image.
Why is it important this discussion be had. There are two reasons
The truth is nobody can be religiously neutral. We cannot have a world that does not have a religion. Everybody has a religion because everybody has a view on the world: there are materialists, hedonists, dualists, theists, atheists, relativists, monists. Today we live in a world whose religion is predominatly Abrahamic and materialist - and guess what - it is a depraved place. A world which is based on the tribal mentality of the Abrahamic religion is a world full of hate, inequality and competition.
By exposing the falsity of the Abrahamic religion I am showing the necessity of getting rid of it from this world and replacing it with a true religion: The dharmic religion. The dharmic religions have already proven themselves by the great material, intellectual and spiritual civilisation they spawned in India: arya dharma. It is time the great prosperity that India enjoyed in ancient times be bought to the entire world. The entire world should be Arya.
The only salvation of this world and of the individual in this world is to embrace Arya dharma. The only religion that has scientific proof to back it up and the only religion that has proven historically that it cultivates high civilisation.
Indra. It has been established long ago that SD and his buddy Freddie what’s-his-face are trolls by every definition. By engaging them on their own terms you are giving them the stuff on which they feed. They have small endosystems and need to provoke others in order to feel alive.
Pity them. Make fun of them. Scorn them. But do not feed them.
Your “bishop” source is not a Catholic bishop and is no longer a bishop. It’s extrmely easy to find such “sources.” There are many who are offended by, or who can’t live up to the moral teachings of Christianity, and then leave it and complain about it, or make it into a cause so they can have their own religion and their own following.
You have an agenda, SD. You don’t go to the sources with an open mind or with the desire to find the true meaning or to understand the situation in the context of the overall faith, of the times it was writtin, why it was written, to whom it was written, what the religion itself says about it, etc. You cherry pick anything that looks “evil” and then put your own spin on it.
Go to a Catholic scholar and ask about those passages which trouble you so much, IF you have a desire to understand and to be fair. If you don’t have that motive, then keep looking for dirt in google searches and you’ll find plenty keep you amused.
Looks like he saw sense Most atheists are actually ex-Christians. Anyway the reason I pointed him out, amongst other secular Western scholars to show that we Hindus are not alone in making these criticisms of Christianity.
We do not become trolls, racists and evil people anymore than they do for pointing out the same. According to real trolls like Flexpenguin even religious-tolerance.com is a troll web site lol.
You have an agenda, SD.
Yeah, which I have made very clear
You don’t go to the sources with an open mind or with the desire to find the true meaning or to understand the situation in the context of the overall faith, of the times it was writtin, why it was written, to whom it was written, what the religion itself says about it, etc. You cherry pick anything that looks “evil” and then put your own spin on it.
I am sorry I cannot be open minded about the mass killing of innocent men, women and children. I cannot be open minded about how 32,000 little boys are murdered in front of their mothers, then their mothers are murdered and 32,000 young women are then taken and raped - ordained by none other than Moses. It is disturbing that you can be.
You complain about abortion and yet you are OK with children being killed in the OT? :lol:
Go to a Catholic scholar and ask about those passages which trouble you so much, IF you have a desire to understand and to be fair. If you don’t have that motive, then keep looking for dirt in google searches and you’ll find plenty keep you amused.
I don’t need to do that because I have no need for an apology. It is your faith and it is you who needs to work this moral dilemma out for yourself and rationalize the savagry and barbarism contained in your bible. Of course the only honest thing to do is what that bishop did
[QUOTE=Indra Deva;46179]Okay, I get it. You’re a troll, as you seem unable to grasp the points I’ve made.
What, are you going to go all Teitan on me and threaten me with physical violence from the other side of the planet for stating the obvious? Fine, go ahead.
Actually, the US likes to borrow money from China so it wouldn’t make any sense there either. Maybe you should lay off of your current antisemitic kick and try reading some global news?
You want me to go up to a black person in America & say that? They’ll probably just shake their head & walk away.
That was a good try though, I suppose.
Didn’t you start this antisemitic thread?
Since we’re taking stuff from my other thread…
When you take many trillions of dollars worth of international aid from Western nations, you don’t get to complain about Western interests sticking their noses into your country. If you can’t accept that, that’s your problem, not mine or anyone else. I’m certainly not personally sending trillions of dollars to anyone, and I’m not sending missionaries, there is no love lost between me and Christianity. But I have a relatively firm grasp on how the real world works, and when you take a mountain of money from certain parties, they WILL WANT you to do a little something for them, like allow them an certain economic presence in your country. You take money from the World Bank & the IMF, you have to practically sell your soul to get it. & guess what? Countries do it every day. Mexico is forced to store and stockpile Canada’s nuclear waste even though they don’t want to, because of the deals they have made with the economic Powers That Be. It’s the price you pay when you try to play in the big leagues.
If it was me, tomorrow I’d take all the board members of the IMF, the World Bank and the Federal Reserve, lock them in the bottom of the darkest prison and throw away the key, because THEY are the real “Evil”. Their manipulating of little people, yes, even those who post on the internet, into thinking that it’s “US versus India”, all that racist bull****, whatever, it’s all a distraction. & if you and your buddies don’t get that, then you’re missing the real point. Colors don’t matter, except for the color of $$$GREEN$$$.
I’m sorry if you can’t grasp that, but that is the way things are. The Global Power Brokers just happen to be camped out in the West because that was where the money was to be had in the first place when global trade started up. The luck of the draw, so to speak.
If India, and your precious Prime Ministers, didn’t want Western Interests poking their noses into India’s business, then maybe your government shouldn’t have sold your country out, right?
(I’m not talking about British Colonialism, btw. & I had nothing to do with that either, in case you were wondering)
Hey, I didn’t twist an Indian government official’s arm and make them sign on the dotted line. They did it of their own free will and they pay the piper to somebody else. It’s not me, nor anyone else in this forum, nor anyone we know, so why don’t you quit being so friggin’ antagonistic around here? All I can do is try to affect a change with who I vote for and what I say to folks. That’s all we little people can do. But blaming me for the shoddy financial deals that your country entered into, or the crimes of the Catholic church, or the travesties that were allegedly perpetrated by some little tribe in the Old Testament (which I don’t believe in, btw), that’s all a big flaming waste of both your time and mine. You accusing me of being racist (when I’m not), being angry at me for being Christian (when I’m not & don’t like the Christian religion anyways), and accusing me of being anti-Hindu (I don’t even know what the hell that would entail but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t apply), all that is just a big waste of time. You’re railing against the wrong party. Go after the G12 or the The Bilderberg Group or the Vatican, but not me or anyone else here. You guys are totally barking up the wrong tree.
You’ve demonstrated next to no tolerance. You actually started a thread about the Old Testament, the occurrences documented there are historically dubious at best, but you’re talking about how it’s the most violent scripture? How does that help you in your Yoga practice? or anyone else here? No one here is advocating or supporting religious violence at all. C’mon, be serious.[/QUOTE]
You, and other posters have indeed shown yourself to have the last few points. You are biased against Indians and Hindus.
"This is a good start Surya. I’ll contact A R Rahman so he can compose an upbeat score. [B]You and Friedrich practice your dance routines (who’s the stright guy?).[/B] Leave everything to me and I’ll have you [B]guys prancing down the red carpet come Oscar season. [/B]
May have to change the old testament theme thing a bit. Violence is good, but can you find some sexy bits? [B]Just try to resist casting any girls under 16. I’ve read about old Hindu men’s preference for marrying the young ones. Won’t go over well out here. Round up some lower caste filthy untouchable bastards to haul the equipment around on the cheap,[/B] and we’re set." - Courtesy of Flex Penguin
"[B]Actually, when we get down to brass tacks, the “Evil West” is going to do whatever it wants.[/B] Why? [B]Because we deserve it[/B], considering the $Trillions$ & $Trillions$ of dollars that [B]we’ve sent India to drag it out & keep it out of the gutter.[/B] Now that India is internationally recognized as a “developing country”, you’re all "Now get out! & completely change while you’re at it!“
Sorry, the real world doesn’t work like that. It never has. You like all the money we give you but you don’t like having us around? [B]Pssht, grow the hell up.[/B]
Asians can look at the plethora of religions, philosophies, and belief systems available to them and they pick & choose like a salad bar. As Western countries have global social & financial influence, [B]we will pick and choose from what religions or philosophies we like, when we like. We have the money, the power, and the authority, & we’ll do what we like.[/B] You can whine about it all you want but it’s a waste of time. Grow up & get with the real world.” - Indra Deva
The above are your exact words. What do you think this is? To any sensible reader, it is typical of Western/White supremacist ideals.
Actually, SD was not saying that we would start becoming violent. He was saying “you’re lucky we’re so tolerant” because if it was otherwise, they wouldn’t have put up with your garbage; in other words, they would become outspoken like us.
But why wouldn’t you try this in China? The Western World has all the power and money as you said above and can do whatever pleases their volition. So why not? China is just another backward and uncivilized country that can be trampled upon by the Western world! Right?
Lol, do you know ANY African Americans? Let me give you specific instructions. Go to the nearest black neighborhood. Start preaching your Western/white supremacist views. Observe (if you are able to by then) the results. Scared?
Find me ONE post, at least ONE post, that had racism against Jews. I will be waiting. You still need to grasp the fact that we are talking about SCRIPTURES, NOT PEOPLE.
I loved the whole tirade on the World Bank and Western supremacy. It is exactly your kind of thinking that perpetuates evil in this world. “That’s what you get…” This is the exact kind of Westerner thinking I am so against. This is exactly what I meant when I said Westerner with Christian biases.
The truth is, you are anti-Hindu/Indian, like any dogmatic Westerner that watches CNN/Fox news’ coverage on India. Stop proclaiming otherwise. You have even mentioned that you do not like Hinduism, posted links to anti-Hindu articles and sites, and have even started a post on supposedly hate filled Indians.
You are a fool. SD and I have shown no tolerance towards the intolerance within Christianity (and in my case, Westerners with your EXACT KIND OF SUPREMACIST DOGMA), which is only righteousness. No doubt the OT’s historicity is in question; but that isn’t the point since it is meant to be a RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURE (what kind of religious scripture has all that evil content in it?) and has [B]historically[/B] been used to justify all sorts of horrific acts throughout history, such as Crusades, Colonialism/Imperialism, wiping out of cultures, and so forth. On the other hand, you have demonstrated no tolerance towards Hinduism, have spread propaganda about it, degraded India, and asserted the supremacy of the West (and therefore, the right to do whatever it wants even if it is wrong).
The point is Indra Deva:
You’re racist.
You’re a typical ignorant American who still thinks he’s at the top of the world.
You’re a Western/white supremacist.
SD and I have greater knowledge of Hinduism than you, so never presume to know more than us. Ever. You will never grasp the essence of Hinduism with your ignorance and Western dogma. We will ALWAYS know more than you.
So what if this is a Yoga forum? It is still populated by mostly Westerners who WILL ALWAYS be ignorant of our culture/country to varying degrees because of their inherent dogmas and beliefs, and who think they’re the best, think they know the most, and so forth. This has been proven by the comments of people like Scales, Flex Penguin, and Indra Deva, the last of which has diverted this thread into a race bashing festival when it was originally denouncing a RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURE (how the…did you get Antisemitism from this? I for one have already mentioned a few times, that I have great respect for Jews), the second of which posts typical ignorant American views on India, Indians, and Hinduism, and the first of which is a marijuana smoking troll.
[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;46195]Indra. It has been established long ago that SD and his buddy Freddie what’s-his-face are trolls by every definition. By engaging them on their own terms you are giving them the stuff on which they feed. They have small endosystems and need to provoke others in order to feel alive.
Pity them. Make fun of them. Scorn them. But do not feed them.[/QUOTE]
Flex. It has long been established that you and your buddy Indra Deva are trolls by every definition. By engaging us on terms typical of an ignorant American, you are indeed giving us more stuff on which we can feed on and later regurgitate on your faces. You have a small brain, akin to that of Homo Habilis species, and you need to post unintelligent, racist, supremacist comments to respond to our posts that are backed with historical fact/evidence, logic, and reasonableness, once again, like your average ignorant American.
By the way SD, I was born here, in the U.S of A, but I lived in Hyderabad, India for much of my childhood. For those idiots who think they know Muslims more than I do, you’re wrong. I lived in a predominantly Muslim city. Us Hindus were scorned, hated, and were the victims of many murders and bomb blasts (luckily we were spared since our family was one of the richest families in Hyderabad). But this wasn’t nearly as interesting enough to make CNN/Fox News as 1 reprisal Hindu act. These “Indians” would rejoice whenever Pakistan won a cricket match, boo India whenever we won one (in addition to spitting at us and otherwise showing their contempt), supported Pakistan during the Kargil “War,” supported the 9-11 attacks, were the very Muslims who shouted “Death to Bush” when he visited Hyderabad, were the very ones who planted a bomb in a populated market area (this, somehow, made CNN news) that killed many people and would have almost taken the lives of some of my relatives and friends back there, and so forth (but of course, Indra Deva and Flex Penguin will point fingers and say it is the fault of the mostly Hindu country for having “bad security” and support these Muslims). I’ve met more Muslims than most of you can ever dream of, the worst kind…but that’s the kind you see most of in this world.
What about the U.S, you might ask? Same story. Same racism (hatred against blacks, against other ethnic groups), same ignorance (like Indra Deva, Flex Penguin)…now there are several Americans whom I know and respect…but guess what? Most are always agnostic/deistic/secular and most of them always see the West for what it is…and these are the people that are truly ahead of the game. The ones floundering in their bubbles of Western dogma and Christian bias are always the ones that do the worst in life.
The truth is, you are anti-Hindu/Indian, like any dogmatic Westerner that watches CNN/Fox news’ coverage on India. Stop proclaiming otherwise. You have even mentioned that you do not like Hinduism, posted links to anti-Hindu articles and sites, and have even started a post on supposedly hate filled Indians.
Again, I find it very ironic and amusing that the only evidence of racism here is by Indra Deva. He is saying highly offensive and racist things about Indians, and if similar things were said to black and Chinese people, all hell would have broken loose.
Find me ONE post, at least ONE post, that had racism against Jews. I will be waiting.
Yeah, where exactly is this antisemetic post. All I can find here is anti-Indian posts
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46207]Again, I find it very ironic and amusing that the only evidence of racism here is by Indra Deva. He is saying highly offensive and racist things about Indians, and if similar things were said to black and Chinese people, all hell would have broken loose.
Yeah, where exactly is this antisemetic post. All I can find here is anti-Indian posts ;)[/QUOTE]
Lets add BBC to this list of biased Western media shall we?
Speaking of media. Myself and my family were recently watching Slumdog millionaire. We turned it off at the third question. We were so appalled by the film that we could not bear to watch anymore of it. It was an incredibly racist portrayal which was unrelenting in showing everything negative. There was no story at all, just a montage of everything negative you can possibly show about a country. It was in fact the opposite of what Indian movies show of the West, unrelenting positive images. It was disgusting and I am convinced now the West has an underbelly of racism against India which permeates deep into academia by the fact that a movie like this would be praised so much and given the highest honours. What we found really sickening is how the host of India’s who want to be a millionaire is portrayed as a sadist, tyrant and hater of poor people. I am sure you have seen the actual show hosted by Amitabh Bachchan and later Shahrukh Khan, and how in fact the hosts of the show extend the warmest welcome and treatment to their contestants and in fact people from unfortunate background gets the best treatment.
In a sense the rise of Hindu nationalism is because of the growing amount of resentments Indians are developing to racism against Indians. It is almost as bad as antisemiticism and it seems to be born out of jealousy for the civilisation of Indians and more recently their economic growth and increasing prosperity. If this continues, I can anticipate a major face-off between India and the West in the future. The clash of civilisations.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46211]Speaking of media. Myself and my family were recently watching Slumdog millionaire. We turned it off at the third question. We were so appalled by the film that we could not bear to watch anymore of it. It was an incredibly racist portrayal which was unrelenting in showing everything negative. There was no story at all, just a montage of everything negative you can possibly show about a country. It was in fact the opposite of what Indian movies show of the West, unrelenting positive images. It was disgusting and I am convinced now the West has an underbelly of racism against India which permeates deep into academia by the fact that a movie like this would be praised so much and given the highest honours.
In a sense the rise of Hindu nationalism is because of the growing amount of resentments Indians are developing to racism against Indians. It is almost as bad as antisemiticism and it seems to be born out of jealousy for the civilisation of Indians and more recently their economic growth and increasing prosperity. If this continues, I can anticipate a major face-off between India and the West in the future. The clash of civilisations.[/QUOTE]
It was directed by a Brit. What did you expect? My parents watched it and they said they appreciated the movie for what it was; a movie. Other than that, they were offended by the negative portrayal of India. Those kinds of things (capturing children and maiming them to earn money from their begging) are sooooooooo rare and infrequent compared to 50 years ago. I don’t blame Amitabh Bachchan for being angry at the movie.
The West likes anything sensational (anything without logic, rationale, and facts) and anything that appeals to the stereotype of the Christian/Western world better off than the pagan, impoverished, third-world countries.
It seems to me that it is actually born out of the irrationality of bigoted Westerners who scorn (instead of pitying) an impoverished nation, a nation with a “pagan” religion on top of that!
I see nothing wrong in making films on the negative problems of a culture. In fact intelligent and good cinema should always be critical and not escapist. However, SM did not at all critically look at problems of slum dwellers in India, it was more of a poverty porn montage showing everything negative that the director and writer could possibly think off, and then exaggerating it to nightmare levels and ticking every box on the stereotype list of indians. This only makes this obviously non-intelligent and bad cinema, it makes it a highly racist movie. It recalls the days of movies like Gunga-din which is banned in the UK for being a racist movie.
I think Indian tolerance can sometimes be a bad thing. If SM was instead made on China or Africa or any other country it would be trashed and perhaps cause a political war. Indians were just too happy that they were able to win Oscars, that they forgot what they were being happy about. However, this is because Indians lack self-esteem internationally and due to centuries of alienation of their culture. This is starting to change now with the rise of more confident and proud Indians. The new generation of Indians are finding their own identity in India’s heritage and in the progress of modern India. This growing confidence will only get bigger and bigger.
I agree. One should always encourage making films on negative aspects of a culture. That way, that culture would know what to improve or work on. However, one also has to make sure that they provide ample evidence and prove that this problem is a national problem and not isolated cases exaggerated to unrealistic proportions. Unfortunately, this is mostly the case with Western media, even in documentaries.
For example, I, despite my opinions of most Muslims, disagreed with a documentary that was about “Love Jihads.” In other words, Muslim men would allow a relationship to develop between non-Muslim women and when that relationship reached its climax, the men would attempt to convert, even by force, the woman to Islam. Not good for relationships you see. However, that documentary failed to provide more than a few instances of this occurrence and thus, deserved to be labeled as propaganda. Just like SM.
[QUOTE=The Scales;46033]
Kill.
Kill.
Kill.
WEEEEEEEEEEE.[/QUOTE]
I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL."
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46214]I see nothing wrong in making films on the negative problems of a culture. In fact intelligent and good cinema should always be critical and not escapist. However, SM did not at all critically look at problems of slum dwellers in India, it was more of a poverty porn montage showing everything negative that the director and writer could possibly think off, and then exaggerating it to nightmare levels and ticking every box on the stereotype list of indians. This only makes this obviously non-intelligent and bad cinema, it makes it a highly racist movie. It recalls the days of movies like Gunga-din which is banned in the UK for being a racist movie.
I think Indian tolerance can sometimes be a bad thing. If SM was instead made on China or Africa or any other country it would be trashed and perhaps cause a political war. Indians were just too happy that they were able to win Oscars, that they forgot what they were being happy about. However, this is because Indians lack self-esteem internationally and due to centuries of alienation of their culture. This is starting to change now with the rise of more confident and proud Indians. The new generation of Indians are finding their own identity in India’s heritage and in the progress of modern India. This growing confidence will only get bigger and bigger.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, what was the movie Gunga-din about? Was it a Hindi or an Arabic film? Cause I can readily see that din is a Hindi/Arabic word meaning “day” in Hindi and “religion” in Arabic. But I have never heard of the word Gunga…