Is the West becoming more spiritual?


#101

You say you are not perfect, but sure as well behave it. I repeatedly said to show me the Hindu genocides, crusades, colonialism, inquisitions and scripture that says explicitly kill the non believers, before you start claiming that the violence in Hinduism and the violence in Christianity and Islam are equal.

You are Christian apologetic Lotusgirl. Like I said, the forum is not stupid.

You were born and brought up in a Christian family, and you have repeatedly shown that is where your allegiences lie. In the past you even said that you were starting to reappreciate Christianity. I would respect you so much more, if you just came out and said it. Thomas, does not hide that he has Christian biasses - why do you?


#102

I repeatedly said to show me the Hindu genocides, crusades, colonialism, inquisitions and scripture that says explicitly kill the non believers, before you start claiming that the violence in Hinduism and the violence in Christianity and Islam are equal.

Sd, I showed you what I found. I never said they were equal. I knew you wouldn’t read my last sentence in my previous post.

I agreed about the crusades, inquisitions. But I concluded with you can’t condemn a whole religion for what the few did.

And while I appreciate the foundation Catholicism gave me growing up, as I grew older, I felt many of the teachings were just wrong and made no sense. Is it so hard to fathom, that one could still appreciate some of the good things? And SD, my allegiance is not with religion. If a person is good and caring, to me, religion doesn’t matter at all.

Now come on, we were just starting to get along, you and I. Don’t go and spoil it!


#103

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;53122]No, SD, I know for certain I am not perfect. I have and will continue to apologize for things I do that warrant it.

And I too will turn on my own if I disagree. I can agree with 100% of what you say and you have every right to say it. What I have tried to make you and N both understand is your delivery! I have agreed with many things you have stated. As far as the caste and dowry thing, I think what I was trying to get you to understand back then is that there is violence in every religion/culture. Hinduism/India is no different. And I have stated over and over again there has been much less violence in Hindu/Indian history than others. Please don’t skirt over this last sentence.

And as far as me sweeping it under the table, what would my outrage do? I expressed sadness in what happened, event though I didn’t understand a word of it. Don’t look for the bad SD. You read too much into things.

Again, I am not your enemy. Most of us do understand. I am sorry that we do not see how to go about change the same way. But we each have to follow our own path.

And we should probably move on.[/QUOTE]

I wish I had the luxury of agreeing 100% with you.

However, what we are trying to get you to understand is that sweet-talking with those who hate us has done nothing to us for the past 1000 thousand years. India has repeatedly been conquered, raped, shitted-upon, and essentially desecrated by Christians and Muslims.

What would your outrage do? Highlight the severity of the problem. What does your outrage do? Galvanize you to act in a strong and persistent manner.

As for the “caste/dowry” thing, these are societal matters and not to be attributed to Hinduism in the same way slavery, and the lack of rights for blacks and women cannot be appropriately attributed to Christianity. However, Imperialism, Holocaust, Crusades, religious intolerance, and skepticism of Science can be appropriately considered a result of Christianity’s debilitating influence upon Western “civilization.”

Christians, and others with Westernized/Christianized biases, do not realize this and use societal regression as an attack against any given religion. They ignore the fact that they effectively screwed over the world and forced it into the depths of poverty and barbarianism. It is akin to running over a limping man with a car and accusing his faith of bringing about his condition. This is what you, this forum, and almost every other Westerner out there, do. This is precisely why SD and I say you and most Westerners have anti-Hindu biases. Biases do not have to be consciously known and acknowledged to be considered biases. Biases can be ingrained within. And you have these biases. Deal with it.

The above is precisely why the world has a problem with Hinduism. They view the poverty, idol-worship, and casteism within India and equate it with Hinduism. They have no knowledge about the fact that idol-worship is a particular interpretation of Hinduism, the fact that the Western/Islamic world looted heavily from one of the richest civilizations for centuries, and that “caste” was a system revived by the British (it was beginning to die out during the Middle Ages) and an unfortunate result of societal stratification that always comes with the development of civilization. It is these biases and misconceptions that I condemn and attempt to bring out. The problem is aggravated, however, by the AIT and institutionalized bias and intellectual dogmatism against Hindus/Hinduism/India. Take, for example, the false assertion prevailing throughout these forums that Yoga predated Hinduism (to which you agree with, despite repeated attempts by SD and I to correct your ignorance). More reason to believe why you have anti-Hindu biases.

Do you see my point? Sweet-talk and niceties won’t work in a world with heavily inculcated biases against Hindus, in a world run by the people who seek to undermine us. That is why I say what I say and do what I do. So don’t criticize. It looks damn patronizing and insulting when a white person does this. It is tantamount, for example, to a white person telling black people during the Civil Rights Movement to “Chill out. Just wait for another decade or two. Maybe we will give you your rights, even though that hasn’t happened for 2 centuries.”

Rest assured though, the overall resistance and protest is physically peaceful but intellectually violent. Very violent. If you can’t handle it, then check out my signature.


#104

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;53125]Sd, I showed you what I found. I never said they were equal. I knew you wouldn’t read my last sentence in my previous post.

I agreed about the crusades, inquisitions. But I concluded with you can’t condemn a whole religion [B]for what the few did[/B].

And while I appreciate the foundation Catholicism gave me growing up, as I grew older, I felt many of the teachings were just wrong and made no sense. Is it so hard to fathom, that one could still appreciate some of the good things? And SD, my allegiance is not with religion. If a person is good and caring, to me, religion doesn’t matter at all.

Now come on, we were just starting to get along, you and I. Don’t go and spoil it![/QUOTE]

Have you ever taken a history course? Guess not, especially since you go around saying “Yoga predates Hinduism.” Much of Europe was involved in the Crusades. It was ordained by every clergy-man from the Strait of Gibraltar to Northern England to the Ural mountains. It was full-out war between people of different religions. That much can be inferred from the fact that there were a good 12 or so Crusades in total (forgot the exact #). In fact, the last Crusade was so pathetic that even women and children were sent!

Even then, the “Crusades” continued to occur in some form or fashion well into the 16th century. Ever heard of Prince Henry of Portugal? Know why he did what we did? To undermine the Muslims of Northern Africa and find trade-routes that didn’t involve dealing with non-believers.


#105

I agreed about the crusades, inquisitions. But I concluded with you can’t condemn a whole religion for what the few did.

Pull, the other one lg. The crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings were directly ordained by the Church, Christian popes and Christian saints, citing explicit verses from the bible which ordered infidels to be murdered.

You are not honest, and I honestly can’t stand dishonesty.

End of discussion.


#106

N,

I am truly sorry that I don’t see the bias you are talking about. In my community there is no such bias. Our community is heavily integrated. My teacher, who was from India, never spoke of bias against him or his family. Like I said, any kind of hatred saddens me. But the only way to combat hatred is through education, love and compassion and good dialogue. Condemning entire religions, which includes billions of people is not going to change anything.

And BTW, I did take history.

Good night!


#107

End of discussion.

Ditto


#108

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;53129]N,

I am truly sorry that I don’t see the bias you are talking about. In my community there is no such bias. Our community is heavily integrated. My teacher, who was from India, never spoke of bias against him or his family. Like I said, any kind of hatred saddens me. But the only way to combat hatred is through education, love and compassion and good dialogue. Condemning entire religions, which includes billions of people is not going to change anything.

And BTW, I did take history.

Good night![/QUOTE]

Of course you don’t. You are a white person. What else can you else besides your skin color and your so-called superior values, religion, ethics, civilization and etc? I don’t expect the oppressor race to fully see the condition of the oppressed.

Once again, the whole education, love, blah-blah, bull-crap, routine.

You said you took history (though what sort of grade you got in that class is beyond me). So tell me, when did love, education, and bsing ever create ever-lasting peace between Hindus and Christians/Muslims, even after centuries of Hindus doing the very things you said?

Your Indian teacher. Yoo hoo. The older generation of Hindus. The generation that preaches blind universalism and tolerance. Nice example.


#109

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53051]To give you an idea how anti-Hindu and even anti-India this congress party is(which 80% Hindus have allowed to rule the country for decades) watch this video, where a Christian Congress MP attending the Yoga camp by Baba Rama Dev, where he is giving a discourse on how India needs to crack down on corruption and is exposing corruption, is called a “bloody indian dog” by the MP and his associate also says something rude and crass.

http://www.asianage.com/india/baba-ramdev-called-bloody-indian-461

uncut footage(Hindi): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI1P3uIC8yw

The sad fact is India ruled by a government made out of traitors, who have foreign allegiances and anti-Hindu ideologies. Again, another reason why I have no hope for this country. I would not be surprised, friend, if they have already sold off India to the highest bidder. And who is letting this happen? 80% Hindus. Also note how the congress government are quick to label a terrorist attack commited in India by Hindu extremists as “Hindu terrorism” but never uses the term “Islamic terrorism” or “Christian terrorism” So sad and pathetic is the plight of Hindus today. Getting called “bloody Indians” in their own country. Disgusting.[/QUOTE]

Baba Ramdev is being called names as he is engaged in politics and fight against corruption. But this one has made me smiled.
I do not agree with all what Baba Ramdev says, I find his discourses a bit too simplistic at times and I think that one should educate oneself seriously in worldly matters in politics. But he is contributing a lot to the field of Yoga. I have been in his Yoga Institute in Haridwar, it was clean, green, organized yet with a lot of people. And these were people from different backgrounds.

Philippe


#110

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;53129]N,

I am truly sorry that I don’t see the bias you are talking about. In my community there is no such bias. Our community is heavily integrated. My teacher, who was from India, never spoke of bias against him or his family. Like I said, any kind of hatred saddens me. But the only way to combat hatred is through education, love and compassion and good dialogue. Condemning entire religions, which includes billions of people is not going to change anything.

And BTW, I did take history.

Good night![/QUOTE]

I agree with Lotusgirl. Agreed, the world is far from perfect, people have bias of all sorts and huge amount of hatred and resentment, sometimes on the flimsiest of reasons.

But as professed yoga practioners , we have to, while living in this world, detach ourselves from identifying with these emotions. We make progress only when we are able to accept such people/events/opinions with eqanimity-without disturbing our mental peace. And love and compassion plays a large part in bringing this frame of mind to us.

Let us change what we can and have the wisdom to accept with eqanimity what we cant.


#111

[QUOTE=Philippe*;53159]Baba Ramdev is being called names as he is engaged in politics and fight against corruption. But this one has made me smiled.
I do not agree with all what Baba Ramdev says, I find his discourses a bit too simplistic at times and I think that one should educate oneself seriously in worldly matters in politics. But he is contributing a lot to the field of Yoga. I have been in his Yoga Institute in Haridwar, it was clean, green, organized yet with a lot of people. And these were people from different backgrounds.

Philippe[/QUOTE]

So that makes it OK for an Indian to call another notable Hindu figure a “bloody Indian” and “wicked dog” in front of an audience of hundreds/thousands of people?

Westerners never cease to amaze me.


#112

[QUOTE=reaswaran;53166]I agree with Lotusgirl. Agreed, the world is far from perfect, people have bias of all sorts and huge amount of hatred and resentment, sometimes on the flimsiest of reasons.

But as professed yoga practioners , we have to, while living in this world, detach ourselves from identifying with these emotions. We make progress only when we are able to accept such people/events/opinions with eqanimity-without disturbing our mental peace. And love and compassion plays a large part in bringing this frame of mind to us.

Let us change what we can and have the wisdom to accept with eqanimity what we cant.[/QUOTE]

In other words “Let us tolerate the destruction of the Hindu/Indian identity and culture with equanimity because it is most desirable to the West to have 900 million Indians converts to Christianity.”

Too bad the world rarely works in the simplistic and idealistic way simpletons like LG believe it to be.


#113

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53238]So that makes it OK for an Indian to call another notable Hindu figure a “bloody Indian” and “wicked dog” in front of an audience of hundreds/thousands of people?

Westerners never cease to amaze me.[/QUOTE]

???

That is not what I implied. Quite the contrary, but I would not get infuriated for that neither. It made me smiled, that’s it, because I find it utterly ridiculous. I hope that it is clearer now.

Philippe


#114

[QUOTE=Philippe*;53243]???

That is not what I implied. Quite the contrary, but I would not get infuriated for that neither. It made me smiled, that’s it, because I find it utterly ridiculous. I hope that it is clearer now.

Philippe[/QUOTE]

I see.

I am not infuriated at the fact that he was called a “bloody Indian” or a “wicked dog.” I am infuriated at the fact that despite similar occurrences everyday in India (in which Hindus get scorned, hated, murdered, etc), politically correct Indians still continue to tolerate those who want nothing more than to see us and our culture wiped out.


#115

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53247]I see.

I am not infuriated at the fact that he was called a “bloody Indian” or a “wicked dog.” I am infuriated at the fact that despite similar occurrences everyday in India (in which Hindus get scorned, hated, murdered, etc), politically correct Indians still continue to tolerate those who want nothing more than to see us and our culture wiped out.[/QUOTE]

By the way, I relate personally with these problems despite being a Westerner, I have a lot of respect for India, Vedic wisdom and gratitude for Indian seers. I have been in India multiple times and I would like to settle there in the coming years despite all the problems and challenges. My wife is Indian, of Hindu culture and my son (born today in India) is Indian too. I would prefer him to be brought elsewhere than in the hedonist and consumerist Parisian environment. I was in India 10 days back and I will go back in 2 weeks.

Philippe


#116

[QUOTE=Philippe*;53250]By the way, I relate personally with these problems despite being a Westerner, I have a lot of respect for India, Vedic wisdom and gratitude for Indian seers. I have been in India multiple times and I would like to settle there in the coming years despite all the problems and challenges. My wife is Indian, of Hindu culture and my son (born today in India) is Indian too. I would prefer him to be brought elsewhere than in the hedonist and consumerist Parisian environment. I was in India 10 days back and I will go back in 2 weeks.

Philippe[/QUOTE]

I wish you the best of luck.

Where are you planning to settle?

By the way, if you happen to come across a missionary, give him/her a good piece of my mind.


#117

It sounds like the very first obstacle Hindus face in India is this corrupt congress government. Who wants to keep good relations with the Muslims, but some of the stuff they are doing in the name of that is clearly illegal, allowing illegal Muslim immigrants to enter into India through Pakistan and Bangladesh, allowing Muslim terror outfits to operate in the country and giving them freedom to host web sites on Indian servers.

I found some info online on the anti-Hindu double standards of the Congress government:

8/7/2006, HK Correspondent

On July 18, the anti Hindu Congress government in India banned several Hindu websites including Hindu Human Rights Organization websites. The Congress government headed by Italian Catholic Sonia Moina did not follow any natural justice or legal proceedings before the banning of Hindu websites. Legal and Human Rights experts say that there is nothing that could justify a blanket ban of these websites by the Congress government in New Delhi.

Information and Broadcasting Ministry Official explained why the Indian government decided to ban Hindu Websites. The official highlighted that India wants to keep close relations with Muslims. According to another source within the government, the ban is a clear signal that congress government does not want the corrupt practices and anti Hindu policies being exposed in these websites. Several Indian journalists explained that the ban was an indication that the government had succumbed to the pressure from Sonia and Islamic fascists. The whole exercise is to browbeat Hindus and show their lower status in India. The government is subscribing to the absurd argument that several Hindu Websites promote hatred against Jihadis and Jihadistan*.

Its evident that the websites are banned not for antinational activities but for Exposing Congress double standards and Islamic Fundamentalism. Terrorist website of Hezbollah’s TV Al Manar is banned by all countries who are waging war against Terrorism. Ironically the same website is hosted in India!. (almanar.com.lb)

What on earth is going on? An actual terrorist web site like Hezbollah TV is banned by all countries, but the congress government allows it in India. And anti-Islamic terrorism web sites are banned. Is this a joke or what? Doesn’t this very clearly reveal that the Congress government are terrorist sympathizers. I mean come on in which other government in the world, would an MP say to another citizen in their country, “you bloody <insert nationality>”

This congress government was absolutely inept when dealing with the Mumbai terror attacks, and it was revealed just how bad the security arrangements were for protecting India’s financial capital, where just a half dozen men armed with guns are able to hold up the entire city for a few days and the special ops. Despite the fact that there were prior warnings of an attack taking place.

I also recall what another Congress mp said after the attacks, “Don’t worry, in big cities, small things like this do happen” Bloody hell, is this the mentality of the people who govern India? There was a massive outrage by Indians at the comment, but it was nothing more than a flash in the pan. A few weeks pass and everybody forgot.

Recently another incident happened, this time the commonwealth games and the horrible corruption the government was involved in - yes another congress mp! These inept government of monkeys thought to themselves, “Ah, don’t worry, well sort everything out at the last minute” and indeed that is what happened, but not before India got humilated in front of the entire world.

It is blatanly obvious to see, unless you are not half dead, that this government in incredibly corrupt and inept. And if 80% Hindus allow/vote this government again, they deserve everything that is coming to them. My mother even said even more harshly, “Such people who can’t tell the difference between right and wrong, deserve to be destroyed” This is why to me the Indians living today are a blot on the Aryan Hindus of yore, and if they do not turn around, they will be destroyed.


#118

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;53261]It sounds like the very first obstacle Hindus face in India is this corrupt congress government. Who wants to keep good relations with the Muslims, but some of the stuff they are doing in the name of that is clearly illegal, allowing illegal Muslim immigrants to enter into India through Pakistan and Bangladesh, allowing Muslim terror outfits to operate in the country and giving them freedom to host web sites on Indian servers.

I found some info online on the anti-Hindu double standards of the Congress government:

8/7/2006, HK Correspondent

On July 18, the anti Hindu Congress government in India banned several Hindu websites including Hindu Human Rights Organization websites. The Congress government headed by Italian Catholic Sonia Moina did not follow any natural justice or legal proceedings before the banning of Hindu websites. Legal and Human Rights experts say that there is nothing that could justify a blanket ban of these websites by the Congress government in New Delhi.

Information and Broadcasting Ministry Official explained why the Indian government decided to ban Hindu Websites. The official highlighted that India wants to keep close relations with Muslims. According to another source within the government, the ban is a clear signal that congress government does not want the corrupt practices and anti Hindu policies being exposed in these websites. Several Indian journalists explained that the ban was an indication that the government had succumbed to the pressure from Sonia and Islamic fascists. The whole exercise is to browbeat Hindus and show their lower status in India. The government is subscribing to the absurd argument that several Hindu Websites promote hatred against Jihadis and Jihadistan*.

Its evident that the websites are banned not for antinational activities but for Exposing Congress double standards and Islamic Fundamentalism. Terrorist website of Hezbollah’s TV Al Manar is banned by all countries who are waging war against Terrorism. Ironically the same website is hosted in India!. (almanar.com.lb)

What on earth is going on? An actual terrorist web site like Hezbollah TV is banned by all countries, but the congress government allows it in India. And anti-Islamic terrorism web sites are banned. Is this a joke or what? Doesn’t this very clearly reveal that the Congress government are terrorist sympathizers. I mean come on in which other government in the world, would an MP say to another citizen in their country, “you bloody <insert nationality>”

This congress government was absolutely inept when dealing with the Mumbai terror attacks, and it was revealed just how bad the security arrangements were for protecting India’s financial capital, where just a half dozen men armed with guns are able to hold up the entire city for a few days and the special ops. Despite the fact that there were prior warnings of an attack taking place.

I also recall what another Congress mp said after the attacks, “Don’t worry, in big cities, small things like this do happen” Bloody hell, is this the mentality of the people who govern India? There was a massive outrage by Indians at the comment, but it was nothing more than a flash in the pan. A few weeks pass and everybody forgot.

Recently another incident happened, this time the commonwealth games and the horrible corruption the government was involved in - yes another congress mp! These inept government of monkeys thought to themselves, “Ah, don’t worry, well sort everything out at the last minute” and indeed that is what happened, but not before India got humilated in front of the entire world.

It is blatanly obvious to see, unless you are not half dead, that this government in incredibly corrupt and inept. And if 80% Hindus allow/vote this government again, they deserve everything that is coming to them. My mother even said even more harshly, “[B]Such people who can’t tell the difference between right and wrong, deserve to be destroyed”[/B] This is why to me the Indians living today are a blot on the Aryan Hindus of yore, and if they do not turn around, they will be destroyed.[/QUOTE]

I always hated the Congress party. I have always said that I liked the BJP more.

I will ask my dad once he comes back from his business trip on what the opinion of most Indians of the Congress party are.

That also applies to Christians and Muslims…I like that idea. :smiley:


#119

Nietsche quote to Lotusgirl…Of course you don’t. You are a white person. What else can you else besides your skin color and your so-called superior values, religion, ethics, civilization and etc? I don’t expect the oppressor race to fully see the condition of the oppressed.

Well someones got to be oppressed haven’t they?..you cant satisfy everyone!.What do you think you would be doing to the other faiths?..oppressing them is your intention, so you would aim for that and eventually the other faiths will continue and one day you will stop the stupid fighting and be able to live next door to any faith …we suppressed Catholicism here in Britain, it didn’t stop the followers following it and now today, we can live side by side with any religion, happily…(well most of us)

So you have something to learn yet, from the white person.


#120

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;53259]I wish you the best of luck.

Where are you planning to settle?

By the way, if you happen to come across a missionary, give him/her a good piece of my mind.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
Nothing is decided yet. We will see, it is mainly a matter of will and more or less good opportunities…

Philippe